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Bills opening stadium discussions with NYS and Erie County


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5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

One reason to replace what we have is what we have is getting old. I know I was surprised to learn that Highmark (meh) Stadium is older than War Memorial was when it was replaced. And those of us old enough to remember that dump believed it was built by the Romans.

 

But the real reason for a new stadium is money. It's why the NFL has been pushing for one for what seems like forever. As far as the league is concerned, Bills tickets are too cheap. And you can't simply double prices in your current stadium. You have to build a new palace.

 

And it's more than just ticket prices. Other than charging you for parking, teams don't make money off tailgating. Instead of acres of people eating food they brought with them, replace it with bars and restaurants in and around your new palace, some of which the team owner might have a stake in.

 

So get ready for change.

 

 

I'm certainly not advocating fir keeping the Ralph, or whatever its called these days.  I'm saying it makes more economic sense to stay in OP and use some if the money that would have been spent on infrastructure towards the stadium instead.

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1 hour ago, haroldwaide said:

I'm certainly not advocating fir keeping the Ralph, or whatever its called these days.  I'm saying it makes more economic sense to stay in OP and use some if the money that would have been spent on infrastructure towards the stadium instead.

 

Unless studies show there is more revenue to be made in the long run locating in downtown.

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1 hour ago, FarrellsFinest said:

I hope its a Dome! Players hate playing in bad weather. It even hurts when its time to bring in free agents. Stats are effected as well.

I’m sure New England, Pittsburgh and Green Bay would all beg to differ there. They’ve all been super successful for decades despite playing outdoors in the winter. 

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22 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m sure New England, Pittsburgh and Green Bay would all beg to differ there. They’ve all been super successful for decades despite playing outdoors in the winter. 

 

I read the stadium report Populous did a few years ago. The major reason for indoor is the amount of events you can do and host like doubles as opposed to out door. If you are going to spend that much money I'd rather have 55-60 things happening a year as opposed to the 20-25 you get outdoor.

5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

There's something to be said for that as well.  But as Architects, we don't make those decisions for our Clients. We're trained to listen to their goals/desires and then build upon them.  Having been to dozens of stadiums both here and abroad, the difference between the outdoor and indoor experience is significant (although Minneapolis comes the closest to replicating outdoors). I'm anxious to attend a game at the new SoFi Stadium in Los Angeles. That is about as close to being outdoors (in fact it isn't really indoors) in a covered, sunlit, controlled environment as you're going to get. 

 

I did Miami pre Canapy and post Canapy and it was like a different stadium. Even though it was like 80% capacity, with the Canapy the sound reverberated tenfold more then the night game I went to without it.

 

Def an interesting difference to have experienced.

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3 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

I read the stadium report Populous did a few years ago. The major reason for indoor is the amount of events you can do and host like doubles as opposed to out door. If you are going to spend that much money I'd rather have 55-60 things happening a year as opposed to the 20-25 you get outdoor.

 

I did Miami pre Canapy and post Canapy and it was like a different stadium. Even though it was like 80% capacity, with the Canapy the sound reverberated tenfold more then the night game I went to without it.

 

Def an interesting difference to have experienced.

The indoor/outdoor thing is an economic analysis that has to be done. That’s typically where the private public partnerships come into play. You have to host one heck of a lot of events to pay for a $500 Million roof. So if you assume the investment lasts for twenty five years or more that’s $20 million per year or $1 million per event. And while it’s not this simple that equates to $20 extra per ticket tacked on for each crowd of 50,000. Does it pencil? 
 

And thanks for the review on Miami. I haven’t been there since they added the roof. It was a horrible venue before that renovation. 

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7 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

A really creative design team would construct a new, modest, smaller capacity, open air, but covered seat stadium in Orchard Park that would have parking facility amenities to reinforce the tailgating experience. Then, simply charge more for parking and people would pay it. Large parking lot food, restroom, video, etc venues would make the pre and post game experience truly unique to WNY and very fitting to the Buffalo experience.

 

I've thought, before they started Disney parking, that it would be cool if one parking lot could have reserved spots, with each spot have a small lockable storage unit, maybe 5x10.  So you could reserve your spot for the season, and store your chairs, grill, tables, instead of hauling them back and forth each game.  

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It's hard to know what to predict. A dome seems likely until one considers how few appropriate events are likely to be held in Buffalo. But it would not be smart or likely to put an open-air stadium downtown where the winds would be devilish. Forget the retractable roof--it would never be retracted except on the most perfect summer nights...

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24 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The indoor/outdoor thing is an economic analysis that has to be done. That’s typically where the private public partnerships come into play. You have to host one heck of a lot of events to pay for a $500 Million roof. So if you assume the investment lasts for twenty five years or more that’s $20 million per year or $1 million per event. And while it’s not this simple that equates to $20 extra per ticket tacked on for each crowd of 50,000. Does it pencil? 
 

And thanks for the review on Miami. I haven’t been there since they added the roof. It was a horrible venue before that renovation. 

 

Not sure I saw an answer to my previous question, so I'll ask the architect. Where do you get an extra $500M (30-50% of budget) for making a building with a roof? T

 

That is more than what the Falcons paid for their state-of-the-art retractable. We arent talking retractable here.

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The only way I can see a dome is if it could be a dual sport stadium and since we don’t have Major League Baseball . I can’t see the broke state and declining economy being able to afford a new domed stadium.

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38 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

If you are going to spend that much money I'd rather have 55-60 things happening a year as opposed to the 20-25 you get outdoor.

 


I hear this parroted quite a bit. How many extra Winter events do you think a dome will bring that can't already be held in the 19,000 seat Key Bank Arena? What are these 30-40 Winter happenings? A major concert, a boat show, a monster truck rally, hmm maybe that's even too much. They certainly aren't going to heat an entire stadium in the middle of a Buffalo February for a wedding.

 

A think a lot of the public believes in the "build it and they will come" adage, but I think the reality is that it's going to be unused 90% of the year dome or not.

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8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

One thing to remember is the NFL shares some revenues like TV deals. Basically that shared revenue covers player costs. There is a lot of money being shared. 

 

So what I'm trying to say is the Buffalo Bills likely wouldn't survive without shared revenue. So that's part of the reason why there is pressure on the Bills to get this done. They have to keep up with the league. Bills need to increase their revenue. 


I get that the league shares revenue and the more money the Bills pull in, so do the other owners. I just don’t quite grasp how a new stadium is going to bring more money in. More expensive boxes? More restaurants/bars within? Short of bringing more bodies through the turnstiles, how is a shiny stadium going to extract more money out of the same number of people. If they want to raise prices, I get it. But, with Josh Allen chucking the ball, they can do this right now without all the fuss. 

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1 hour ago, QCity said:


I hear this parroted quite a bit. How many extra Winter events do you think a dome will bring that can't already be held in the 19,000 seat Key Bank Arena? What are these 30-40 Winter happenings? A major concert, a boat show, a monster truck rally, hmm maybe that's even too much. They certainly aren't going to heat an entire stadium in the middle of a Buffalo February for a wedding.

 

A think a lot of the public believes in the "build it and they will come" adage, but I think the reality is that it's going to be unused 90% of the year dome or not.

sadly, you are correct.  Also, who knows what the rules for large events in NY State (with regards to social distancing and other health restrictions) will even look like 5-10 years from now.

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3 hours ago, corta765 said:

 

I read the stadium report Populous did a few years ago. The major reason for indoor is the amount of events you can do and host like doubles as opposed to out door. If you are going to spend that much money I'd rather have 55-60 things happening a year as opposed to the 20-25 you get outdoor.

 

I did Miami pre Canapy and post Canapy and it was like a different stadium. Even though it was like 80% capacity, with the Canapy the sound reverberated tenfold more then the night game I went to without it.

 

Def an interesting difference to have experienced.

 

What domed arena is doing "55-60 things a year"?

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3 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

I've thought, before they started Disney parking, that it would be cool if one parking lot could have reserved spots, with each spot have a small lockable storage unit, maybe 5x10.  So you could reserve your spot for the season, and store your chairs, grill, tables, instead of hauling them back and forth each game.  

Ya see? That’s exactly the sort of creative thinking I’m talking about. Plenty of restrooms out in the parking lot and hook ups for electricity. Extra wide spaces for tables, etc. This would be an easy revenue stream for the Bills. 

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2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Not sure I saw an answer to my previous question, so I'll ask the architect. Where do you get an extra $500M (30-50% of budget) for making a building with a roof? T

 

That is more than what the Falcons paid for their state-of-the-art retractable. We arent talking retractable here.

The cost depends on a lot of things but you first have to realize the roof impacts more than the roof itself. It changes the design of the entire upper deck as well as the building’s foundations. My figure was purely hypothetical but it will surely be in the many millions, so pick a figure that sounds right to you and then apply the same math that I did. I’m guessing You’ll still end up with a significant cost per ticket surcharge. Then, you’ll have to decide if you think people would pay it. That’s exactly what the stadium developer will do. It’s not magic or emotion. It’s math.

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4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Unless studies show there is more revenue to be made in the long run locating in downtown.

Very good point, but how much "more revenue" would be needed to break even?  How long would it take to reach that point and would the powers that be be willing to wait that long?

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2 minutes ago, haroldwaide said:

Very good point, but how much "more revenue" would be needed to break even?  How long would it take to reach that point and would the powers that be be willing to wait that long?

 

I hope Terry & Kim have the right people crunching those numbers. It's a big decision.

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