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Bills opening stadium discussions with NYS and Erie County


Big Turk
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3 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

 

NFL Stadiums do nothing to rejuvenate a municipality.  Sometimes owners pine for a 'retail shopping area' built within the stadium funding which they directly benefit from.  That can be built without a stadium.

 

If you have 70,000 people in downtown NF coming or leaving around the same window of time, it is going to be a horrific traffic nightmare.  It is a landlocked peninsula of sorts without good arteries to get out of there (and Im sure the GI bridges and NF Boulevard would also be at a standstill) and people would be jumping in the river instead of sitting on the Robert Moses.  I guess if we pay more billions we can just build highways.  

 

Niagara Falls has been mismanaged by corruption and terrible politicians for decades and decades.  Gifting them a football stadium would change nothing.  Imagining Niagara County ponying up any percentage of the money also seems like an impossibility.  

 

 

A stadium wouldnt help downtown either.  You need a Fortune 500 company (or 2) to headquarter down there.  It is cart before the horse.  An MLB stadium with 81 dates could be a different story if there were decent attendance.  I also think a nice amphitheater would work out better than a Football Stadium because you would get a ton of dates between May and September.  You would put Darien Lake out of business, attract new acts, and other possibilities.

All of that is the glass half full attitude that so often dominates these conversations...which is understandable.  But this particular vein of this thread was about constructing a convention center along with the Stadium.  My point was/is that the ONLY place this sort of mixed use development could ever be viable is at a regional destination spot, like Niagara Falls.  Very few people would come from out of state to Downtown Buffalo for a convention. But, if you tie it to a natural venue like The Falls you'd get people who'd bring their spouse, and make a few days of it.  And regarding the traffic, you have to remember that people would be come to the site from multiple directions, including Canada....which is another fan base the Bills naturally want to tap into.  Traffic would not be the biggest hurdle.  There are plenty of places with a lot worse traffic than WNY.

Edited by SoCal Deek
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13 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The fact the American side of The Falls is so under utilized has always been a mystery to me.

 

Not surprising.  Love Canal is just most well known problem.  It is the Siberia of New York State.

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On 4/5/2021 at 4:40 PM, SoCal Deek said:

The cost depends on a lot of things but you first have to realize the roof impacts more than the roof itself. It changes the design of the entire upper deck as well as the building’s foundations. My figure was purely hypothetical but it will surely be in the many millions, so pick a figure that sounds right to you and then apply the same math that I did. I’m guessing You’ll still end up with a significant cost per ticket surcharge. Then, you’ll have to decide if you think people would pay it. That’s exactly what the stadium developer will do. It’s not magic or emotion. It’s math.


Engineering for snow and wind loads is significant.   The roof would have to be really stout in WNY due to the required safety factors used in the calcs.  Like you said above, that has a cascading affect on superstructure, foundations, geotechnical prep, etc.

 

It makes a massive dent in the budget and cost analysis needs to be done.

 

I think a more economical stadium like Heinz Field makes more sense.   Most of our AFC rivals this side of the Mississippi play outdoors.   I think the Bills would be at a disadvantage on the road. 

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18 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The Forum is still there and is a concert venue now. The new stadium is next to it on the site of old "Hollywood Park" horse track.  And yes, the site is so close the glide path for LAX that they had to build the stadium bowl down into the ground so as to keep the roof under FAA height restrictions.  The project has transformed the entire area, with new multi-family housing units going up all around the development itself.  I could see something like (on a much smaller scale) happening in Niagara Falls....but as usual politics and carpetbagger greed will get in the way.  That's the way these things always seem to go back there.

 

 

People want to live in LA...

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17 hours ago, corta765 said:

 

If you take a look at some of the biggest tours in the nation they have been using football stadiums (Taylor Swift, Metallica, etc). Buffalo has been passed by for bigger cities because of size. Again read the study yourself to see the differences. Summer and Fall they do most of the events at the Ralph as Winter and Spring are notoriously bad for outdoor events that don't involve the Bills. You gain those two seasons back for use if it is indoor. One of the perks people don't talk about is stadium tours are really popular for new venues or in general (believe it or not you can tour the Ralph.. well could pre COVID I meant to do that). Downtown you can get many more people who are interest.

 

I am not trying to sway your opinion as much as just point out some of the advantages that have been reported with indoor use. Truthfully nothing is better as a Bills fan then a 60 degree day in October watching them play. But if a new stadium comes to pass I want them to explore every possibility and use especially because tax payers will feel it.

 

 

That honestly would be super cool but I doubt it ever happens now that the Pegulas own the team and the city of Buffalo has made the overtures it has to have the team downtown. Had we had different ownership that wanted the Canadian market more I think that was a real possibility.

 

A handful of concerts over even 4 seasons would do nothing to offset the debt  service for a domed stadium.  The Pegulas aren't going to move the Bills anywhere so make them pay for a stadium.  They have the funds.  Erie and NYS are running huge deficits.  

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IMO, the best scenario in both terms of cost and logistics is to build a new, reasonably priced stadium somewhere on the current campus/nearby lots.  They should have an overhanging roof of some sort with the thing engineered to reduce wind.  The infrastructure is there, its county land.  The delta between a renovation and a new facility would not be large enough to justify a renovation.

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12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

A handful of concerts over even 4 seasons would do nothing to offset the debt  service for a domed stadium.  The Pegulas aren't going to move the Bills anywhere so make them pay for a stadium.  They have the funds.  Erie and NYS are running huge deficits.  

So naive. The Pegulas aren't fools with a bottomless checkbook. They are pragmatic and have limited funds, especially with a Biden admin declaring war on fossil fuels.

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On 4/7/2021 at 11:40 AM, SoCal Deek said:

The Forum is still there and is a concert venue now. The new stadium is next to it on the site of old "Hollywood Park" horse track.  And yes, the site is so close the glide path for LAX that they had to build the stadium bowl down into the ground so as to keep the roof under FAA height restrictions.  The project has transformed the entire area, with new multi-family housing units going up all around the development itself.  I could see something like (on a much smaller scale) happening in Niagara Falls....but as usual politics and carpetbagger greed will get in the way.  That's the way these things always seem to go back there.

Transformed the area for whom?  The people who have lived there for decades will be pushed out eventually.  Another gentrification grab.  

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9 hours ago, boater said:

So naive. The Pegulas aren't fools with a bottomless checkbook. They are pragmatic and have limited funds, especially with a Biden admin declaring war on fossil fuels.

 

"Limited"?  Who's the naïve one?  I guess you could say Bill Gates has limited funds.  Jeff Bezos too, because it's a correct statement.

 

Pegula clearly has the cash on hand as well as access to unlimited capital if he prefers to finance it.  He's not in the red, he's billions ahead.  If he's a little short this month, he could borrow from the NFL.  Maybe he could ask Stan Kreonke how to do it.  He privately funded a stadium worth more than Pegula.  OR he could ask the Owners of the Jets and Giants how they did it.

 

He's no fool, true--he would rather we pay for this.  imagine if the government would build you a nice new mansion.  Would that be amazing??--and VERY pragmatic of you!. 

 

It's thinking like yours that encourages politicians to spend your money on billionaires' desires.  

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10 hours ago, purple haze said:

Transformed the area for whom?  The people who have lived there for decades will be pushed out eventually.  Another gentrification grab.  

What? Who are you talking about, the native tribesmen? My family grew up there. They wouldn’t shed a tear. (And by way, the area in question is not a vibrant residential neighborhood, it’s mostly underutilized commercial property.) My family would be proud of the transformation. With all due respect, you have to think bigger. WNY is sitting on a natural wonder of the world and has done virtually nothing with it for many decades.  There’s tons of potential there. 

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5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

What? Who are you talking about, the native tribesmen? My family grew up there. They wouldn’t shed a tear. (And by way, the area in question is not a vibrant residential neighborhood, it’s mostly underutilized commercial property.) My family would be proud of the transformation. With all due respect, you have to think bigger. WNY is sitting on a natural wonder of the world and has done virtually nothing with it for many decades.  There’s tons of potential there. 

I know where the stadium is.  I go to church in Inglewood.  I know people who live in Inglewood.  The development will become a ripple eventually and Black and Brown residents will start getting priced out.  This same phenomenon has happened in other big cities as generationally neglected areas became “developed”.  

I get why the mayor of Inglewood pushed for the stadium development;.  Jobs created, etc.  But will those types of jobs pay for the rise in costs the development will ultimately lead to?  Inglewood is in a good location.  Freeway close by.  Get to the beach and the airport relatively quickly.    That stadium is likely just the beginning not an ending.

 

WNY has been a prisoner of its own lack of vision and follow through.  That’s nothing new.  We’ll see how this stadium talk goes.  All that said I’m going to a football thread.   Don’t mean to get diverted by real life on this message board.

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On 4/7/2021 at 7:27 PM, SoCal Deek said:

All of that is the glass half full attitude that so often dominates these conversations...which is understandable.  But this particular vein of this thread was about constructing a convention center along with the Stadium.  My point was/is that the ONLY place this sort of mixed use development could ever be viable is at a regional destination spot, like Niagara Falls.  Very few people would come from out of state to Downtown Buffalo for a convention. But, if you tie it to a natural venue like The Falls you'd get people who'd bring their spouse, and make a few days of it.  And regarding the traffic, you have to remember that people would be come to the site from multiple directions, including Canada....which is another fan base the Bills naturally want to tap into.  Traffic would not be the biggest hurdle.  There are plenty of places with a lot worse traffic than WNY.

Ok, you convinced me. Scrap the downtown retractable dome and build it in the Falls. Every time tv returns after commercial break at home games they show the Falls. Might as well have a camera set up in the stadium for that view.👍

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On 4/6/2021 at 7:08 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Watch it from home or a bar, for nothing.

 

What are the stadium events you are working at?

Finished up the NCAAs.  Waiting for a schedule to be posted 1 May.  

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On 4/7/2021 at 10:45 PM, Limeaid said:

 

Not surprising.  Love Canal is just most well known problem.  It is the Siberia of New York State.

 

Malone/Massena area is the Siberia of NY IMO

 

The mountains are too far away to really see, and it's flat, freezing cold, grey and windy 8 months of the year. 

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