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18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Don't project disagreement and concrete examples into "act like my answer is ridiculous", K?  Every player in the league gets paid based on previous production.  One could equally say to you, don't act like it's ridiculous to think a team won't pay Brown his current salary or more if he's cut.

 

You're claiming "I don’t see him getting 8-9 mill with pandemic plagued salary cap offseason."

I'm pointing out that too much is made of this as a lot of teams still have ample cap space available.

 

Could you give some example of these "many football players in the past" who have taken less money to stay where they want to play?

 

Because, as Spotrac pointed out, 99% of renegotiations do not involve a paycut.

 

 

I’m also point out that there are several other WRs on the market, which pushed down the price.  I also pointed out that John brown is coming off a 400 yard season....in which he was hurt half the year and got shut down by a middling corner in the afccg.  He couldn’t get separation.  

 

Hilton was getting paid 14:5 mill based on a 5 year monster contract he signed coming off 1345 yard season.....John Brown has never been on that level before.  

I’m not going to give you any examples of players taking less money to stay on their team.  If you don’t believe that has ever happened, throw some water on your face.....tom Brady did it for a decade. Other have too.  There is a reason that people talk about hometown discounts.....because it’s actually a thing. It doesn’t always happen....but it has happened

 

again....you asked a question .  I answered. My answer is 💯 plausible. 

 

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I don't get why so many are down on Brown.  He was great in 2019 and played well before the injury.  Of course he didn't get as many yards/catches cuz we added Diggs.  You gotta have more than 1 stud

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On 2/13/2021 at 9:40 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Agree with the first part.  Brown would most certainly want the opportunity to market himself before accepting a pay cut.  A restructure that winds up paying him the same, sure.

 

probably wont happen with Bills. If they just keep at contract he is cap number of 9.5 million. If they cut him they incur dead cap of 1.6 million. Let's say Bills offer restructure at 6.5 mill a year and cap hit of less. Then if he refuses that restructure to test market and Bills cut him they incur 1.6 mill dead cap with no way of reducing that dead cap.

So lets say he test market and no one offers over 5.5 mill per year. Bill's wont take him back at 6.5 mill as he is on books then for 8.1 mill. Bills likely only would go about 4 now.

 

If he takes restructure he is better off unless he and agent are sure higher offers await in FA.

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Don't project disagreement and concrete examples into "act like my answer is ridiculous", K?  Every player in the league gets paid based on previous production.  One could equally say to you, don't act like it's ridiculous to think a team won't pay Brown his current salary or more if he's cut.

 

You're claiming "I don’t see him getting 8-9 mill with pandemic plagued salary cap offseason."

I'm pointing out that too much is made of this as a lot of teams still have ample cap space available.

 

Could you give some example of these "many football players in the past" who have taken less money to stay where they want to play?

 

Because, as Spotrac pointed out, 99% of renegotiations do not involve a paycut.

 

 

I pointed that out......it was one of multiple reasons why I felt that way.  That’s how I feel about the situation.  If he doesn’t take a pay cut, he won’t be a Buffalo Bill.  Do you disagree? I’m not saying that se will take a pay cut.  I’m saying that, looking at our cap situation, he’s not worth 9M to this team. Beane should ask him to take a pay cut......if he says no, he should be cut.  I stated the reasons why I thought he might agree to a pay cut.  
 

regarding another team will pay him 9M or more....let’s wait and see.  No use going back and forth about it.  I don’t think he’ll get that much based on the reasons I’ve already stated 


I was out an about with my wife......just got home.  Examples of players taking less to play for the team they want to play for.  John brown is on a championship caliber team that qualifies as a team players would go to chase a ring.  The majority of ring chasers in every sport are examples players taking discounts.  There are many.  Ndamukng suh did this past season.  Tom Brady, Ray Lewis, Peyton manning, Pat Tillman, Marques Colston, Keenan Lewis, Teddy bruschi, Tony Romo, Keith Brooking, Deangelo hall, John Elway, Jerome Bettis.  I could go on.

 

There are several in the nba,

and nhl-   lebron, wade, bosh, curry, Duncan, Dirk, shaq, David west, klay, draymond, Mike bibby, Kirelinko, udonis haslem, Dwight Howard.  Jr Smith, dion waiters.  I could go on.

 

Gretzky Tavares, kovalchuk, lidstrom, yzerman, Richards, Crosby, selanne, Iginla, kariya.  I could go on.

 

Again.....I don’t expect this to happen John brown....but It does happen and it could happen.  

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I’d be shocked if Brown gets anywhere near $9m per year if cut by the Bills.  A lot of really good WR’s on the free agent market and a declining cap could really hurt a guy like Brown.  I wouldn’t wanna be looking for a team if I were him.  
I’d pounce on $5m guaranteed this year I were him.  
 

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4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Please keep in mind that 99% of restructures are not pay cuts

Don't take my word for it

 

image.thumb.png.c6a9651baf3c4fc8bcbe6acaa8db1257.png

 

 

 

 


While that is true in general, it doesn’t apply here because you really can’t do much to restructure a one year contract.  Brown is in the last season of his contract so that’s what we are dealing with.  The only real option for a true restructure is to convert salary to a signing bonus and add voidable seasons to delay some of the cap hit.

 

IMO the most likely option is to ask him to take a cut but add incentives so that he can make it back with availability and performance.  That’s fair IMO.  It’d be good for the team too because we could target his replacement in the draft and season him for a year.  I prefer that to an extension because of his age and that he’s a speed guy.  Those players fall off quick and I would rather move on a year early rather than a year late. 

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12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Because, as Spotrac pointed out, 99% of renegotiations do not involve a paycut.

 

I can only think of two pay cuts on the Bills in the last decade. Kraig Urbik took a paycut to stay for the final year of his deal when his role had changed from starter to backup in the meantime. The other, also oline, was Richie Incognito which was beyond weird when he took a paycut, then retired and fired off a load of tweets implying the Bills and his agent had worked together to screw him. And Richie is a special case with his issues. 

 

It is very rare. 

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A for what I'd do with Brown..... I think I'd cut him, but I might be tempted towards a restructure (ie. extension with phoney voidable year in 2022) that takes $3m off his cap hit and kicks the can a little down the road depending on what happens with the cap. Essentially on a $185-190m cap in 2021 I think a #2 receiver at $6m cap it or thereabouts makes sense for this team. On a $175-180m cap I don't. When I look across our roster at where we are and where we need to upgrade I just think it is lower priority to keep Brown. 

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If the Broncos cut Von Miller I hope Beane can bring him to Buffalo. I don't think we need much help, but another pass rushing threat is definitely one of them. 

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35 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

I doubt they go after Tyrell Williams. I know he's a size guy but I think Gabe Davis could be a solid #2 and I kinda think maybe Kumerow will get a chance to be the 4th or 5th WR and he brings some size. 

 

They should 100% not go after Williams. He kinda sucks. 

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I don't see how you can bring John Brown back at his number..  He had a bad year and it's rare for a guy on the downward trend of his career to see an uptick all things considered..  I know he was injured but he's not the no.1 on this team anymore and would be more of a support player for Diggs and Beasley anyways.  His speed seemed diminished as well.

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7 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

I don't see how you can bring John Brown back at his number..  He had a bad year and it's rare for a guy on the downward trend of his career to see an uptick all things considered..  I know he was injured but he's not the no.1 on this team anymore and would be more of a support player for Diggs and Beasley anyways.  His speed seemed diminished as well.

 

Yeah, I like JB, he was great in 2019 but the injuries definitely wrecked his 2020. I know early on when he was missing games it seemed like the offense stalled a little bit but eventually they got to clicking so well that I didn't even realize Brown wasn't out there sometimes. I think they let him go to save some cap. Davis should only keep getting better and McKenzie could possibly start doing some deep routes.

 

2021 WR Group Guess

1. Diggs

2. Beasley

3. Davis

4. McKenzie

5. Kumerow

6. A guy who is primarily their return specialist and gets 4 targets and 2 catches a year. 

7. Hodgins? According to camp reports the dude was catching everything.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

Yeah, I like JB, he was great in 2019 but the injuries definitely wrecked his 2020. I know early on when he was missing games it seemed like the offense stalled a little bit but eventually they got to clicking so well that I didn't even realize Brown wasn't out there sometimes. I think they let him go to save some cap. Davis should only keep getting better and McKenzie could possibly start doing some deep routes.

 

2021 WR Group Guess

1. Diggs

2. Beasley

3. Davis

4. McKenzie

5. Kumerow

6. A guy who is primarily their return specialist and gets 4 targets and 2 catches a year. 

7. Hodgins? According to camp reports the dude was catching everything.

 

 

 

Eh. Feel they need to do more opposite Diggs if you release Brown.... look at KC and TB. Stacked at the skills position. Think we need to find a decent replacement for him if they do release him. 

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5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Eh. Feel they need to do more opposite Diggs if you release Brown.... look at KC and TB. Stacked at the skills position. Think we need to find a decent replacement for him if they do release him. 

All depends on how much the run game/OL and pass rush improved.  
 

our offense is fine without brown or a good replacement as long as the opposing defenses have to account for our run game.  Our pass O was nearly unstoppable at time last year without brown....and no run game.  Add in an improved pass rush and I think we can be good enough to win it all without replacing smoke with anyone other than Davis (and Hodgins replacing him and likely a middle round draft pick)

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4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

All depends on how much the run game/OL and pass rush improved.  
 

our offense is fine without brown or a good replacement as long as the opposing defenses have to account for our run game.  Our pass O was nearly unstoppable at time last year without brown....and no run game.  Add in an improved pass rush and I think we can be good enough to win it all without replacing smoke with anyone other than Davis (and Hodgins replacing him and likely a middle round draft pick)

Yea.... just worry about depth a bit. Specifically if Diggs gets hurt. 

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The fact Beane was bringing wr's in during the year leads me to believe he's got some more work to do in the room. I don't know if an injury in 2020 is enough to get Brown a reduced contract or even let go, seems to me like it shouldn't. I think this will be an interesting decision for Beane though, judging by the way Beane structures the contracts it seems like he gives himself a < 2million dead cap hit to cut guys and Brown is definitely in that boat so it wouldn't surprise me if he approaches brown about a salary reduction. Just seems like he'd be creating a hole if he cuts brown, especially if there is no one else that has speed.

 

I do believe we need a player to be able to step into the brown backup role by bringing some speed before approaching brown. The question is where do you put him. In a best case scenario I think we draft someone with really good speed that can also play wr and they take the spot of roberts and mckenzie. That leaves enough room for davis and hodgins to develop with the hope that some one on the roster can back up beasley.

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16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Don't project disagreement and concrete examples into "act like my answer is ridiculous", K?  Every player in the league gets paid based on previous production. 

 

 

Except Clowney. People just keep paying him because he was a #1 pick.

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1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea.... just worry about depth a bit. Specifically if Diggs gets hurt. 

 

Diggs is irreplaceable though in fairness. If I am keeping John Brown for that eventuality I have to feel I could get him back close to his career year form of 2019. And given he has only had 1 other season in his career close to that production wise I am sceptical.

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Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Diggs is irreplaceable though in fairness. If I am keeping John Brown for that eventuality I have to feel I could get him back close to his career year form of 2019. And given he has only had 1 other season in his career close to that production wise I am sceptical.

Yes. I’m really not opposed to releasing Brown....I just hate the idea of releasing him and basically plugging in Davis to his spot. 

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