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Some executives view Allen as preferable to Mahomes long term


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7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I love Josh Allen.  I love Tre' day.  But sorry, this is not at this point sure. 

 

Mahomes has proven he is clutch and can win and make great throws under pressure and win big games in the playoffs and championship.  He has been a great player for 3 years now.

 

Allen has improved by leaps and bounds, but he does still need to show he can come up clutch, win big games, and be consistent year after year.

 

Just a bit premature.


It’s fair to want to see consistency and a larger sample size.  If Josh can do this, then the Bills are going to be a good team for years to come!

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One thing is for sure....   Allen and White>>>>>Mahomes

He’s definitely THAT good.  Now all he has to do is win a SB.  It’s the only thing that matters. 

They feel Allen is in the same class now, has more room to grow and is bigger and stronger which will allow him to take more hits and be less likely to get injured...   Stunning...could anyo

16 minutes ago, FireChans said:

"I think Allen is able to put the team on his back a little more than Mahomes."

 

"Mahomes and Allen don't need to put their teams on their back."

 

Hm.

This year. Allen proved he could do that in previous years. Mahomes has never needed to prove that.

 

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9 hours ago, Big Turk said:

They feel Allen is in the same class now, has more room to grow and is bigger and stronger which will allow him to take more hits and be less likely to get injured...

 

Stunning...could anyone have imagined this happening before the season started??

 

https://www.radio.com/wgr550/sports/bills/some-in-league-circles-would-take-allen-over-mahomes?dfpvars[app]=true&app=true

I’m still waiting to wake up, and have this all be the cruelest dream ever...🤣

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8 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm not saying I disagree with you, I just want to see a few more playoff games with both.  Mahomes has a SB, 5 playoff starts, 4-1 in the playoff games (close enough to 2 SBs possibly and maybe 6-0 if not for a phantom off sides penalty), 13 tds an 2 ints, and he is likely to add to that this year.  Allen so far is 0-1 with no passing TDS.   Once again, maybe the regular season shows Allen has caught up to Mahomes...but I have trouble declaring it myself until I see some of it in the playoffs.

If Josh takes us all the way to the promised land this year and wins the big one, then his playoff record will improve to 4-1. Granted, that is a big IF. One game at a time. Let's get that first JA playoff victory Saturday.

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9 minutes ago, Strethor said:

The answer is Mahomes untill proven otherwise. There are some flaws to what Mahomes does, no doubt - but untill allen gets results theres really no comparisson 

 

Allen's cadence is WAAAAAYYYY better than Mahomes'.

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8 hours ago, skibum said:

It's Mahomes' improvisation and quick thinking ability that set him apart in my opinion. It is getting harder to say he has better accuracy than JA, but at the moment I would give him a slight edge there because he has been doing it longer. 

 

 

Anyone who says Allen can make all the throws that Mahomes can really hasn't watched much of Mahomes.   

 

He can make a wider variety of throws and from more platforms than anyone who has ever played the game.............which is why he has one ring and really should have 2.

 

Allen is a great arm talent too but his effectiveness is more the product of hard work and mechanical improvements........which is also a great plus.......but it's a difference.

 

I love the fact that Allen has the chip on his shoulder and has faced adversity that Mahomes has not.

 

Mahomes was a top prospect in 2 sports and the son of a long time MLB pitcher and he was basically handed the keys to an offense at a name college and was allowed to do his thing his way..........he's had very little adversity compared to Allen.......honestly in part because he was GREAT so quickly.

 

But that edge that Allen has is something that so many QB's have turned into motivation to be the best.    Case in point........if motivation/dedication was equal would Tom Brady or Drew Brees be better than a beast like Ben Roethlisberger?    I don't think so.    It matters.

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Mahomes was pretty average or even bad through 3 quarters of the Super Bowl last year but won the game with a few somewhat broken play downfield chucks in the fourth.  Allen is about the only other QB that can make those same deep throws on broken plays and the Bills O has been copied from Chiefs so mostly smaller receivers break wide open late. 

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The measure of success in this League, ultimately, is winning playoff games and Super Bowls.  I love Josh Allen.  I think he has a higher ceiling than Mahomes.  I think he has the potential to win multiple Super Bowls.  Until Josh wins a Super Bowl and shows he can still excel when all the chips are in the middle of the table, Mahomes is still the better QB.  If Josh can grab a Lombardi this year or next then I think it's fair to look at this argument again. 

 

Josh hasn't shown he can succeed at the highest levels of competition yet.  Here's to hoping Josh checks off that box emphatically this post season starting tomorrow.

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12 hours ago, Strethor said:

The answer is Mahomes untill proven otherwise. There are some flaws to what Mahomes does, no doubt - but untill allen gets results theres really no comparisson 

 

 

Yeah our fanbase is quite bi-polar and one minute their BBFS makes them superstitious and afraid to hope for greatness..........and the next they are trying to take credit for it before it's achieved.    It was the same in the early 90's.   The question of the week leading up to SB XXV wasn't if they were going to win..........it was how many SB's in a row were they going to win.

 

I'm anticipating Allen being great but Mahomes is a potential GOAT with a 50 TD pass season and a ring and he is so dominant he cruise controlled his team to the best record in the NFL this season.    Allen will have to win a SB before it's really a reasonable conversation.

 

 

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Mahomes vs. Allen growth throughout their career*

 

Mahomes:

2018 Games 2-9     115.3 rating

2018 Games 10-17  112.4 rating

2019 Games 18-24  113.1 rating

2019 Games 25-31  97.6 rating

2020 Games 32-39 115.0 rating

2020 Games 40-46 101.9 rating

 

Allen:

2018 Games 1-6      61.8 rating

2018 Games 7-12    72.6 rating

2019 Games 13-20  82.9 rating

2019 Games 21-27  88.8 rating

2020 Games 29-36 102.4 rating

2020 Games 40-46 111.6 rating

2021 ???

 

*excluded Mahomes first career game since it was only one start at the end of the 2017 season

 *excluded the final game of the season for Allen in 2019 because he only played one series

 

Cowherd touched on this topic this morning on his show. Mahomes has consistently been great from the start. He sat and learned behind a good veteran QB his first year.  His first year starting Mahomes was throwing to Kelce and Tyreek Hill and had a proven offensive genius designing and calling plays. Hill and Kelce were already proven all-pro caliber players before Mahomes became the starter.

 

Allen was forced into starting and did not have a proven veteran QB to learn behind. His mentor was Nathan Peterman for the first half of the season for crying out loud. Allen was throwing to receivers who are either not currently in the NFL or not starting for any teams since the 2018 season. Allen has a good coaching staff around him now but Allen and the staff had to build their offensive identity over the last three years.

 

Allen hasn't yet had the same peaks in passer rating that Mahomes has achieved several times through his career already but if we look at Allen's trend, it's not hard to imagine that at some point next year, either the first half of the season, second half of the season or even both, Allen will probably top his career high 111.6 passer rating.

 

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15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Anyone who says Allen can make all the throws that Mahomes can really hasn't watched much of Mahomes.   

 

He can make a wider variety of throws and from more platforms than anyone who has ever played the game.............which is why he has one ring and really should have 2.

 

Allen is a great arm talent too but his effectiveness is more the product of hard work and mechanical improvements........which is also a great plus.......but it's a difference.

 

Maybe not literally all the throws, but it works both ways. I think there are tons of throws Mahomes can't make that Allen hits. 

 

The question is moving forward who has the higher upside? It sounds insane but Allen has a higher upside:

-Throwing on the run

-Bigger arm

-Keeps improving

-Has more to learn in the mental side than Mahomes

-Still started slow in some games

 

I mean he's upside city.

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12 minutes ago, BillsToast said:

 

I mean he's upside city.

 

This. And this is why some executives would take Allen over Mahomes. Mahomes is great without question. He's been doing it for three straight years now. But it also looks like he has maxed out his potential. That's okay because his current plateau is high. But no question Allen's ceiling has not yet been identified. 

 

I look back at the end of the season still for Allen too. Final three games Allen put up 11 TD's to 1 turn over in 2.5 games. And if we dive deeper, Allen threw 5 pass attempts combined in the 4th quarters of the Denver and New England blowouts. He went 4/5 for a TD. In other words, you can make a strong argument that Allen played a tick over 8 quarters of the final 12 quarters of the 2020 season and still put up 11 TD's. Dive deeper and Allen had one TD called back on penalties and one dropped in the end zone not once but twice on the same series? It could have been 13 TDs in just a tick over 8 quarters. It's not hyperbole to say Allen could have finished the season with 16 TD's in his final three games. 

 

I'm nervous about every Bills playoff game but in the back of my mind I am aware of the possibility that Allen and the Bills can have a postseason run that the league has never seen before. One for the record books and that is based on the insane amount of TD's they put up in the last three regular season games. Games that Allen basically only played or had his foot on the petal for about 40 minutes of a 60 minute game on average. 

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33 minutes ago, BillsToast said:

 

Maybe not literally all the throws, but it works both ways. I think there are tons of throws Mahomes can't make that Allen hits

 

The question is moving forward who has the higher upside? It sounds insane but Allen has a higher upside:

-Throwing on the run

-Bigger arm

-Keeps improving

-Has more to learn in the mental side than Mahomes

-Still started slow in some games

 

I mean he's upside city.

 

 

It doesn't work both ways with regard to the throws............JA has a cannon but I've never seen Josh make one that Mahomes hasn't already.

 

They are different athletes.......Mahomes is like a great SS and Allen is like a great third baseman.........the "range" of platforms Mahomes can put himself in to make a throw are larger........and it's mainly because he has natural accuracy and doesn't need the feet to follow.     Allen has had to work much harder at becoming accurate.   

 

Time will tell which is the better player but there isn't a throw Mahomes can't make that any QB ever has.......including of course Allen.  

 

 

 

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On 1/7/2021 at 1:59 PM, warrior9 said:

 Similar to Manning / Brady.

Hopefully Allen is the Brady in this scenario

On 1/7/2021 at 1:59 PM, warrior9 said:

 

 

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5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

It doesn't work both ways with regard to the throws............JA has a cannon but I've never seen Josh make one that Mahomes hasn't already.

 

They are different athletes.......Mahomes is like a great SS and Allen is like a great third baseman.........the "range" of platforms Mahomes can put himself in to make a throw are larger........and it's mainly because he has natural accuracy and doesn't need the feet to follow.     Allen has had to work much harder at becoming accurate.   

 

Time will tell which is the better player but there isn't a throw Mahomes can't make that any QB ever has.......including of course Allen.  

 

And, not to mention Mahomes developed the first vaccine for Covid, is close to ending world hunger, and, I'm sure, will eventually be revealed as the next Dalai Lama...

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When you watch the two play, they are actually kind of identical. I think it was Matt Hasselbeck that said "if you put each one in the other's uniform you really can't tell a difference". They both do things no other QB in this league can do

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