Blank Stare Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You are poking this bear with a stick on the TJ Graham pick LOL. We traded up and I was so excited - I thought we were going to draft Russell Wilson. TJ Graham, who is that? 6 picks later, Wilson was drafted by the Seasnakes and the rest is history. Gailey and Nix seemed obsessed by small fast guys. Graham was essentially a track star who played a little receiver. Ugh, those days. I know it’s a sore subject that’s been discussed many times before around these parts, but it’s just so refreshing to have this regime and their approach to the draft. I don’t see McBeane wasting premium draft picks by choosing many TJ Graham types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, TheProcess said: I know it’s a sore subject that’s been discussed many times before around these parts, but it’s just so refreshing to have this regime and their approach to the draft. I don’t see McBeane wasting premium draft picks by choosing many TJ Graham types. Yeah, people second guess like why did we pick Cody Ford (or Dawson Knox) when we could have had ______ , but at least both Ford and Knox are genuine football players who can go out on the field and make football player plays, good ones at times. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 39 minutes ago, Hebert19 said: There is plenty of room for brown. Restructure him and lets keep band together. Pretty sure him and Hughes will be our off-season contract tweaks. Maybe as 4th option. Gabe is a decent receiver and good blocker. Really where's the $$ room? The band has been playing with a replacement for half their tour! They are $5 mil over cap of $175 mil, if it goes up to $190 mil like some are projecting, that's $20 mil, You need to still leave about $5 mil for rookies, plus want to keep another $3 to $5 mil for in season replacements, roster moves etc. That leaves you around $10 mil over and only 43 players under contract. Feliciano, Williams, & Milano likely will cost around $25 mil to sign all three. If you let them walk, who is their replacement as he's currently not on the roster now. Brown is the one guy on the roster where you already have a replacement for him on the roster. I agree I'd offer Brown a tweak, reduce his salary to about $4 mil, if he'll sign that, OK, but would be surprised if he'd take that large of a cut. Yes you can make tweaks to others, extend Hyde and L Smith, knock $1 to $2 mil off the cap, restructure Hughes and Matakevich, cut Butler to save some money. Cut Morse to save $5mil, but that just creates another hole to fill too. Very few other than Butler have the impact that cutting Brown has at around an $8 mil savings and who has only played in 8 games, 3 of which he basically did nothing. On top of all this the Bills will need to sign about ten other players just to fill out a final 53 man roster as again only like 43 players under contract and only 4 offensive lineman under contract, no punter, return man , #2 CB, or backup QB signed next season to name a few. Granted some are restricted FA like Bojorquez and Wallace so can sign them on the cheap. There's at least 11 upcoming FA that provided a significant contribution or function to this years team success that they will need to be replaced in one manner or another, could see about three of them being rookies, but remaining ones likely you'll want to sign a vet if you hope to make the 2021 roster just as strong or stronger than 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dkollidas Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Really where's the $$ room? The band has been playing with a replacement for half their tour! They are $5 mil over cap of $175 mil, if it goes up to $190 mil like some are projecting, that's $20 mil, You need to still leave about $5 mil for rookies, plus want to keep another $3 to $5 mil for in season replacements, roster moves etc. That leaves you around $10 mil over and only 43 players under contract. Feliciano, Williams, & Milano likely will cost around $25 mil to sign all three. If you let them walk, who is their replacement as he's currently not on the roster now. Brown is the one guy on the roster where you already have a replacement for him on the roster. I agree I'd offer Brown a tweak, reduce his salary to about $4 mil, if he'll sign that, OK, but would be surprised if he'd take that large of a cut. Yes you can make tweaks to others, extend Hyde and L Smith, knock $1 to $2 mil off the cap, restructure Hughes and Matakevich, cut Butler to save some money. Cut Morse to save $5mil, but that just creates another hole to fill too. Very few other than Butler have the impact that cutting Brown has at around an $8 mil savings and who has only played in 8 games, 3 of which he basically did nothing. On top of all this the Bills will need to sign about ten other players just to fill out a final 53 man roster as again only like 43 players under contract and only 4 offensive lineman under contract, no punter, return man , #2 CB, or backup QB signed next season to name a few. Granted some are restricted FA like Bojorquez and Wallace so can sign them on the cheap. There's at least 11 upcoming FA that provided a significant contribution or function to this years team success that they will need to be replaced in one manner or another, could see about three of them being rookies, but remaining ones likely you'll want to sign a vet if you hope to make the 2021 roster just as strong or stronger than 2021. Listen to Cover1’s podcast with Greg Tompsett from a few weeks ago. Even at $175M cap next year they’ll be able to keep basically everyone important and only have to choose between Williams & Milano. If the 17th game brings the cap up to about $190M, they’ll be able to keep everyone. According to Spotrac, we should have about $5M of cap space going into 2021 if the cap is at $175M, with 39 players signed. You’ve got to consider they’ll cut or restructure certain fringe roster players (Matakevich, Lee Smith), along with guys who are rotational (Butler), and extend guys like Brown/Hughes/Hyde in ways that will save them money in 2021, and be easy to get out of in 2022. Then if you consider turning Diggs salary into a signing bonus (which will give him a bug fat check, but save us cap space around $7M-$8M in 2021), that’s more savings. They could do those moves I’ve listed and save roughly $30M against the cap. A lot of guys (McKenzie, Kroft, Roberts) that are free agents will likely stay in Buffalo for veteran minimum. Let’s say they sign 6 of these players for a total of $7.5M Add in 6 draft picks, which will likely cost $4M against the cap. thats 12players for $11.5M. you’d still have $19M to bring back Feliciano, Williams and Milano. If you backload those deals, 2021 cap hits for Milano ($7M), Feliciano ($5M) and Williams ($7M) would put you right at that $19M number with 54 players on the roster. don’t get me wrong it would be EXTREMELY tight. But even at $175M you could bring back Feliciano Milano and Williams, only have to cut guys like Butler, Matakevich & Lee Smith, while restructuring some of your older veterans (Hughes, Brown & Hyde), along with Diggs (pushing his cap down the road which won’t matter a great deal bc of anyone deserves big money it’s him & Allen). If the cap goes to $190M+, they’ll be able to keep just about everyone for another run. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 "Yep the Bills signed Kenny Stills to help with their Super Bowl run. They will let him walk into FA next season and be granted a 3rd Round Compensatory Pick". 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Dkollidas said: Listen to Cover1’s podcast with Greg Tompsett from a few weeks ago. Even at $175M cap next year they’ll be able to keep basically everyone important and only have to choose between Williams & Milano. If the 17th game brings the cap up to about $190M, they’ll be able to keep everyone. According to Spotrac, we should have about $5M of cap space going into 2021 if the cap is at $175M, with 39 players signed. You’ve got to consider they’ll cut or restructure certain fringe roster players (Matakevich, Lee Smith), along with guys who are rotational (Butler), and extend guys like Brown/Hughes/Hyde in ways that will save them money in 2021, and be easy to get out of in 2022. Then if you consider turning Diggs salary into a signing bonus (which will give him a bug fat check, but save us cap space around $7M-$8M in 2021), that’s more savings. They could do those moves I’ve listed and save roughly $30M against the cap. A lot of guys (McKenzie, Kroft, Roberts) that are free agents will likely stay in Buffalo for veteran minimum. Let’s say they sign 6 of these players for a total of $7.5M Add in 6 draft picks, which will likely cost $4M against the cap. thats 12players for $11.5M. you’d still have $19M to bring back Feliciano, Williams and Milano. If you backload those deals, 2021 cap hits for Milano ($7M), Feliciano ($5M) and Williams ($7M) would put you right at that $19M number with 54 players on the roster. don’t get me wrong it would be EXTREMELY tight. But even at $175M you could bring back Feliciano Milano and Williams, only have to cut guys like Butler, Matakevich & Lee Smith, while restructuring some of your older veterans (Hughes, Brown & Hyde), along with Diggs (pushing his cap down the road which won’t matter a great deal bc of anyone deserves big money it’s him & Allen). If the cap goes to $190M+, they’ll be able to keep just about everyone for another run. The Bills can do whatever they want...they have tons of cap flexibility and they structure their contracts in a way to avoid dead cap space as much as possible. Restructures, extensions, shifting base salary to bonuses, etc etc etc... People freaking out about cap space just don't understand how easy it is to open up cap space...I mean New Orleans was way over the cap and was aggressively pursuing and signed a big UFA last year... Just let Beane do what he do...they will be fine. Edited January 2, 2021 by Big Turk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 33 minutes ago, Dkollidas said: Listen to Cover1’s podcast with Greg Tompsett from a few weeks ago. Even at $175M cap next year they’ll be able to keep basically everyone important and only have to choose between Williams & Milano. If the 17th game brings the cap up to about $190M, they’ll be able to keep everyone. According to Spotrac, we should have about $5M of cap space going into 2021 if the cap is at $175M, with 39 players signed. You’ve got to consider they’ll cut or restructure certain fringe roster players (Matakevich, Lee Smith), along with guys who are rotational (Butler), and extend guys like Brown/Hughes/Hyde in ways that will save them money in 2021, and be easy to get out of in 2022. Then if you consider turning Diggs salary into a signing bonus (which will give him a bug fat check, but save us cap space around $7M-$8M in 2021), that’s more savings. They could do those moves I’ve listed and save roughly $30M against the cap. A lot of guys (McKenzie, Kroft, Roberts) that are free agents will likely stay in Buffalo for veteran minimum. Let’s say they sign 6 of these players for a total of $7.5M Add in 6 draft picks, which will likely cost $4M against the cap. thats 12players for $11.5M. you’d still have $19M to bring back Feliciano, Williams and Milano. If you backload those deals, 2021 cap hits for Milano ($7M), Feliciano ($5M) and Williams ($7M) would put you right at that $19M number with 54 players on the roster. don’t get me wrong it would be EXTREMELY tight. But even at $175M you could bring back Feliciano Milano and Williams, only have to cut guys like Butler, Matakevich & Lee Smith, while restructuring some of your older veterans (Hughes, Brown & Hyde), along with Diggs (pushing his cap down the road which won’t matter a great deal bc of anyone deserves big money it’s him & Allen). If the cap goes to $190M+, they’ll be able to keep just about everyone for another run. Good stuff. That is why I don’t think Feliciano is back, unless he replaces Morse. Boettger and Ford are going to be our starting guards ext year, imo. If they can’t resign Williams I think the backup plan is to sign Feliciano and move Ford back to RT, but Ford and Ike will not be on the bench. I think Milano is 50/50. He should be back but his market could be all over the place. Lavonte David and KJ Wright and other off ball linebackers are free agents as well. I think we target Nick Bolton in the draft. Williams is the guy who may break the bank, but he’s the guy we need to resign above all others imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Really where's the $$ room? The band has been playing with a replacement for half their tour! They are $5 mil over cap of $175 mil, if it goes up to $190 mil like some are projecting, that's $20 mil, You need to still leave about $5 mil for rookies, plus want to keep another $3 to $5 mil for in season replacements, roster moves etc. That leaves you around $10 mil over and only 43 players under contract. Feliciano, Williams, & Milano likely will cost around $25 mil to sign all three. If you let them walk, who is their replacement as he's currently not on the roster now. Brown is the one guy on the roster where you already have a replacement for him on the roster. I agree I'd offer Brown a tweak, reduce his salary to about $4 mil, if he'll sign that, OK, but would be surprised if he'd take that large of a cut. Yes you can make tweaks to others, extend Hyde and L Smith, knock $1 to $2 mil off the cap, restructure Hughes and Matakevich, cut Butler to save some money. Cut Morse to save $5mil, but that just creates another hole to fill too. Very few other than Butler have the impact that cutting Brown has at around an $8 mil savings and who has only played in 8 games, 3 of which he basically did nothing. On top of all this the Bills will need to sign about ten other players just to fill out a final 53 man roster as again only like 43 players under contract and only 4 offensive lineman under contract, no punter, return man , #2 CB, or backup QB signed next season to name a few. Granted some are restricted FA like Bojorquez and Wallace so can sign them on the cheap. There's at least 11 upcoming FA that provided a significant contribution or function to this years team success that they will need to be replaced in one manner or another, could see about three of them being rookies, but remaining ones likely you'll want to sign a vet if you hope to make the 2021 roster just as strong or stronger than 2021. I'm just talking about brown on receiving core. Stills isn't a brown replacement. He and Hughes restructure. Cut Murphy. Not sure Addison and Jefferson both stay. Restructure and extend Hyde. There is always a way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, Hebert19 said: I'm just talking about brown on receiving core. Stills isn't a brown replacement. He and Hughes restructure. Cut Murphy. Not sure Addison and Jefferson both stay. Restructure and extend Hyde. There is always a way. Murphy contract expires this season. No need to cut him. He's already off the books next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Dkollidas said: Listen to Cover1’s podcast with Greg Tompsett from a few weeks ago. Even at $175M cap next year they’ll be able to keep basically everyone important and only have to choose between Williams & Milano. If the 17th game brings the cap up to about $190M, they’ll be able to keep everyone. According to Spotrac, we should have about $5M of cap space going into 2021 if the cap is at $175M, with 39 players signed. You’ve got to consider they’ll cut or restructure certain fringe roster players (Matakevich, Lee Smith), along with guys who are rotational (Butler), and extend guys like Brown/Hughes/Hyde in ways that will save them money in 2021, and be easy to get out of in 2022. Then if you consider turning Diggs salary into a signing bonus (which will give him a bug fat check, but save us cap space around $7M-$8M in 2021), that’s more savings. They could do those moves I’ve listed and save roughly $30M against the cap. A lot of guys (McKenzie, Kroft, Roberts) that are free agents will likely stay in Buffalo for veteran minimum. Let’s say they sign 6 of these players for a total of $7.5M Add in 6 draft picks, which will likely cost $4M against the cap. thats 12players for $11.5M. you’d still have $19M to bring back Feliciano, Williams and Milano. If you backload those deals, 2021 cap hits for Milano ($7M), Feliciano ($5M) and Williams ($7M) would put you right at that $19M number with 54 players on the roster. don’t get me wrong it would be EXTREMELY tight. But even at $175M you could bring back Feliciano Milano and Williams, only have to cut guys like Butler, Matakevich & Lee Smith, while restructuring some of your older veterans (Hughes, Brown & Hyde), along with Diggs (pushing his cap down the road which won’t matter a great deal bc of anyone deserves big money it’s him & Allen). If the cap goes to $190M+, they’ll be able to keep just about everyone for another run. Think you're very optimistic that you'll sign them for the vet minimum as these three are currently making around $9 mil, to expect them to agree to take under $1mil each. A guy like Roberts will be in demand. Would be surprised if Kroft would even want to return to a situation where he's been inactive, but that still means he needs to be replaced by someone else. Maybe you can find a guy like Olson in the tail end of career to sign for the vet min. Certainly can sign Ike B, Bojorquez, and L Wallace to their tenders guessing likely costing you around $2 mil for the three of them combined. You really need to factor in more than 53/54 players as every year there are a couple of players start on IR so they are replaced, this year, Sweeney, Feleciano, Hodgins, Last year there believe there were also 3 of them, plus want to keep $3 to $5 mil for in season signings. Certainly agree on cutting Butler, but Matakevich & Lee Smith were contributors throughout the season, can't see cutting them if you do, you'll need to replace them with another body who fills the same role. Could see them taking a pay cut may save you a couple mil there. Same with Hyde. Projected contract numbers I saw about a month ago for Feliciano was around $7 mil and Williams may get $10 mil. Overall think you may be over stating discounts players are willing to take to stay here in Buffalo. While I do agree that will factor in, would be surprised if it's at the level you're projecting. Overall seems crazy to me to consider cutting players like Matakevich & Lee Smith who contributed throughout the season in their own special ways in order to keep a guy who was inactive for half the season and his a replacement is already on the roster on a cheap rookie contract who is only going to get better just for a small amount of speed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 hours ago, TheProcess said: I know it’s a sore subject that’s been discussed many times before around these parts, but it’s just so refreshing to have this regime and their approach to the draft. I don’t see McBeane wasting premium draft picks by choosing many TJ Graham types. Lol...they traded up and drafted Zay Jones. So McD did exaclty what you were praising him for not doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Stare Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 I’d RE-up both Williams and Milano and get rid of (or restructure) everyone on the current D-line except Jefferson, Oliver, and Epenesa. Addison and Butler were essentially 1 year deals. Hughes I think has an out too (could be wrong). Star I think has to come back for at least one more year until there is an out. Then I’d just go heavy D-line in the draft. We’ve needed some young cats in there for a long time, and I think it’s an easier position group for rookies to come in and make an impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, Hebert19 said: I'm just talking about brown on receiving core. Stills isn't a brown replacement. He and Hughes restructure. Cut Murphy. Not sure Addison and Jefferson both stay. Restructure and extend Hyde. There is always a way. You can't cut a free agent as is Murphy, there's no saving as he isn't getting paid anything next year. Agree about Hyde. It took half the season for he Bills pass rush to become effective, would have to cut Addison and/or Jefferson and need to start over their again. Do think you cut Butler though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Stare Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said: Lol...they traded up and drafted Zay Jones. So McD did exaclty what you were praising him for not doing. No, they didn’t. Go compare Zay’s college production to TJ Graham’s. Most people universally considered Zay a second round prospect. Plus his college coach was here in McD’s ear. Sometimes guys don’t work out, but comparing Zay to Graham is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 4 hours ago, MJS said: Zay, at least, had a ton of catches in college. You can call me Ray, or you can call me Zay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, TheProcess said: I’d RE-up both Williams and Milano and get rid of (or restructure) everyone on the current D-line except Jefferson, Oliver, and Epenesa. Addison and Butler were essentially 1 year deals. Hughes I think has an out too (could be wrong). Star I think has to come back for at least one more year until there is an out. Then I’d just go heavy D-line in the draft. We’ve needed some young cats in there for a long time, and I think it’s an easier position group for rookies to come in and make an impact. Phillips, Johnson, Oliver, and Epenesa are all young on rookie contracts. Jefferson think is only 26 so you have a pretty young line there already. Butler agree with cutting, but if you cut either Addison or Hughes likely see a drop off on the rush. How many sacks/pressures did Epenesa have this season, think it was one and he was a 2nd rounder. Yeah rookies can make an impact as a rotational backup, but unless it's maybe a top 20 pick doubt they are going to help that much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyToTasker Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Lol...they traded up and drafted Zay Jones. So McD did exaclty what you were praising him for not doing. Not exactly the same. TJ Graham had 99 receptions in college, Zay Jones had 399. 300 more catches, included 158 in his senior season. Seemed like a pretty reliable set of hands coming out of ECU. As time proved, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Stare Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Phillips, Johnson, Oliver, and Epenesa are all young on rookie contracts. Jefferson think is only 26 so you have a pretty young line there already. Butler agree with cutting, but if you cut either Addison or Hughes likely see a drop off on the rush. How many sacks/pressures did Epenesa have this season, think it was one and he was a 2nd rounder. Yeah rookies can make an impact as a rotational backup, but unless it's maybe a top 20 pick doubt they are going to help that much. Honestly, I forgot about Phillips and Johnson and agree they should stay since they are still on their rookie deals. I think Epenesa will improve as he gets used to the game and learns to play at his lighter weight. We are definitely creating pressure, but for a defense that would be so much better with a stout front 4 that could get to the QB without bringing corners, LBs, and safeties as much as we do, I think we need more out of our d-ends. Especially for the money Hughes and Addison are getting. That would be where I’d spend my first round pick this year if the right guy is there at 32. Then come back around and grab another pass rusher in the 3rd or 4th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 37 minutes ago, Hebert19 said: I'm just talking about brown on receiving core. Stills isn't a brown replacement. He and Hughes restructure. Cut Murphy. Not sure Addison and Jefferson both stay. Restructure and extend Hyde. There is always a way. Trent Murphy is a FA. If you are going to talk contracts/cap you need to know who is a RFA, EFE and FA at least. 16 minutes ago, TheProcess said: No, they didn’t. Go compare Zay’s college production to TJ Graham’s. Most people universally considered Zay a second round prospect. Plus his college coach was here in McD’s ear. Sometimes guys don’t work out, but comparing Zay to Graham is ridiculous. Having Zay's college coach in McD's ear was the problem. His coach was never successful in NFL and unlike previous Bills' WR coach added nothing and was canned after one year like many times in his career. Coach McD does not know offense and depended too much on offense coaches he hired first year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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