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Billsfan1972

Josh Allen's 1st Int vs. Titans - How quickly the narrative changed

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10 minutes ago, billykay said:

On the second int, it looked like Josh was trying to feather it in over the defender but was just a little low with the pass. Tough throw. Didn't it seem that Josh was throwing it harder rather than with touch like he was doing in the first 4 games? He was really gunning the throws in there. The one drop by Diggs was below the waist and gunned. Has to be caught but I'm not sure if was necessary to gun it. I don't recall if Diggs was well covered & a hard throw was necessary.

Some but not all of the hard throws were because he had to get rid of the football. 

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I didn't think he looked quite as good. Perhaps because he was settling for second or third choices/reads. But even with the drops he was over 60%, right?

 

And while the drops were drops, can anyone imagine Kelvin Benjamin leaping for that Davis grab that got called back? Or the deep to Diggs last week or the endzone spinner Beasley had? We just saw a tiny dose of pass catching mediocrity and it looked like a splash of 2018. Allen has definitely improved this season and his touch passing seems to have come from out of the blue, but this seasons grabs make it pretty clear that the first season didn't have to be so statistically bad.

Edited by mbs
changed 2017 to 2018

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2 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

Disagree with you on the thought that Allen was off all day.

 

That touchdown pass to Gabriel Davis was on the money, it just got wiped out by a strange illegal shift penalty.

 

Allen did quite well, all things considered. Too many dropped passes by the receivers did not help.

 

It wasn't a good game for Allen, but he was not off all day.

 

Allen clearly wasn't off on every pass.  But especially at the start of the game, passes weren't quite in the right spot; passes that should have been thrown with a bit of loft were thrown flat; there was some bad judgement trying to force in "chunk play" passes instead of taking the underneath stuff the defense was giving him - even when some of those WR had a lot of space around them and could have made serious YAC. 

 

I think part of it is that he was having to work harder mentally to decode the coverage, whilst the Titans were making him feel pressure with some disguised blitzes after the line set.

 

I'm working my way through the all-22 and I'm pretty sure at this point there were also some tipped passes.  The announcing crew we had wasn't sharp enough to pick up on it, but I learned to watch for tipped balls in volleyball as the ball changing direction or spin at the point where it crosses the blocker's fingers, and I'm seeing that on the first pass to Knox (short right) and a pass to Diggs on the R in the 2nd half.

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4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The first two years, it would have been:

 

"Allen threw behind the receiver & again shows he is just not that accurate a passer"

 

On Tuesday it was: 

 

"The pass was there and that is a catch an NFL receiver has to make"

 

I saw the Int & blamed the receiver.  The replay did show Allen was a little off.  Since day one 1 with Allen I blame the receiver & now it seems so does the media (and most on here).😜 

 

I was listening to ESPN radio the other day, and both Greeny and whoever else was discussing the game gave equal blame to Allen and Roberts. 

 

Said Allen threw the pass behind him, but Roberts still had a shot. 

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2 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

Disagree with you on the thought that Allen was off all day.

 

That touchdown pass to Gabriel Davis was on the money, it just got wiped out by a strange illegal shift penalty.

 

Allen did quite well, all things considered. Too many dropped passes by the receivers did not help.

 

It wasn't a good game for Allen, but he was not off all day.

 

To me, Allen was off compared to what he's been lately, but if that's the new floor, I'll take it. 

 

From Qs 2-4, I was bracing for "Bad Josh" and he didn't appear except on one throw he really forced to Diggs deep in his territory late in the 2nd. His Davis INT was a bad throw but not a bad decision--Davis had a shot if the ball was higher. That was just a physical mistake.

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5 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

To me, Allen was off compared to what he's been lately, but if that's the new floor, I'll take it. 

 

From Qs 2-4, I was bracing for "Bad Josh" and he didn't appear except on one throw he really forced to Diggs deep in his territory late in the 2nd. His Davis INT was a bad throw but not a bad decision--Davis had a shot if the ball was higher. That was just a physical mistake.

 

The two throws that really bothered me were a terrible throw into a triple-covered Diggs (might be the throw you mean) and an earlier throw to a double-covered Davis.

 

In both cases, as in the case of the INT intended for Davis, Allen had other open targets.

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4 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

The announcers for the game were absolute trash. They had the narrative that it was a bad throw by Josh, and that he was forcing throws all night.

 

The first INT wasn't a perfect throw, but it certainly wasn't a bad throw either. That's a catch 99% of the time in the NFL. 

 

Josh had a few bad throws (2nd INT being the worst), but Tannehill forced just as many throws. Josh had about 5 pretty routine NFL catches dropped whereas AJ Brown kept making contested catches for Tannehill.  


AJ Brown was doing his best Eric Moulds impression out there

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4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The two throws that really bothered me were a terrible throw into a triple-covered Diggs (might be the throw you mean) and an earlier throw to a double-covered Davis.

 

In both cases, as in the case of the INT intended for Davis, Allen had other open targets.

 

That was the throw I was thinking of. Forgot about the one to Davis. He came out in the 2nd half reset to good Josh. The fact that he's showing he can go back to that is a huge sign of growth. Last year, he'd have been running all over creating chaos and trying to hero-ball his way to a win. Tuesday he tried to take what was given to him (the under zone passes to Beasley). It just didn't work out. 

Edited by shoshin

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33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Allen clearly wasn't off on every pass.  But especially at the start of the game, passes weren't quite in the right spot; passes that should have been thrown with a bit of loft were thrown flat; there was some bad judgement trying to force in "chunk play" passes instead of taking the underneath stuff the defense was giving him - even when some of those WR had a lot of space around them and could have made serious YAC. 

 

I think part of it is that he was having to work harder mentally to decode the coverage, whilst the Titans were making him feel pressure with some disguised blitzes after the line set.

 

I'm working my way through the all-22 and I'm pretty sure at this point there were also some tipped passes.  The announcing crew we had wasn't sharp enough to pick up on it, but I learned to watch for tipped balls in volleyball as the ball changing direction or spin at the point where it crosses the blocker's fingers, and I'm seeing that on the first pass to Knox (short right) and a pass to Diggs on the R in the 2nd half.

Always interested to hear your take Hapless. I think these are the kind of games that will better prepare Allen and the Bills for a more productive playoff run IMO. KC coming up, the same thing. Two teams Buffalo has a good chance of meeting up with again. Two of the best teams in football IMO.

 

Allen was a little off most of the day, just enough to make the difference. On a day he had to be sharp along with the supporting cast around him. I'm not happy with the circumstances leading up to the game and can understand how all the scheduling questions with KC and the Titans may have played a part in the teams performance.

 

Thanks again Hapless 

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2 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

I was listening to ESPN radio the other day, and both Greeny and whoever else was discussing the game gave equal blame to Allen and Roberts. 

 

Said Allen threw the pass behind him, but Roberts still had a shot. 

Not a shot.....  Should have caught it and at worst an incompletion.

 

Greeney would not have blamed Rodgers, Wilson or Prescott that's for sure.

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The only INT that's 100% on Josh is the second one that Butler picked off. Don't think Josh ever saw him. It happens. 

 

While Josh has dramatically improved, he still has that "area code accuracy" at times. Meaning, the ball is in the receivers area but might not be placed where they prefer. There have been times where he's robbed a receiver of some YAC because the ball is a bit behind them or whatever. Just like he has his entire career so far, I expect he'll work on it and continue to improve. But yeah, I'm sure the receivers are aware that they might need to make some adjustments at times in order to make the catch. 

 

Off topic but I just wanna punch Mike Vrabel in his stupid fat head. What a frickin' mongoloid. 

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good point Opie.  also, this makes me think our hot starts were a bigger benefit than they even looked at the time in the first 4 games.  we basically need to establish a good O and get a lead to bail out our D some.  the rams showed a disciplined quality O can mash us up in a big way, even with a full roster.  

 

kc may murder us if they get off to a good start and we stink it up.  we will need all cylinders to be firing out the gate.

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7 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The first two years, it would have been:

 

"Allen threw behind the receiver & again shows he is just not that accurate a passer"

 

On Tuesday it was: 

 

"The pass was there and that is a catch an NFL receiver has to make"

 

I saw the Int & blamed the receiver.  The replay did show Allen was a little off.  Since day one 1 with Allen I blame the receiver & now it seems so does the media (and most on here).😜 

 

You realise not all Allen's INTs were on receivers? The first one on Tuesday was. Others have been (Beas v Jets week 1 2019) but not all have been.

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Allen clearly wasn't off on every pass.  But especially at the start of the game, passes weren't quite in the right spot; passes that should have been thrown with a bit of loft were thrown flat; there was some bad judgement trying to force in "chunk play" passes instead of taking the underneath stuff the defense was giving him - even when some of those WR had a lot of space around them and could have made serious YAC. 

 

I think part of it is that he was having to work harder mentally to decode the coverage, whilst the Titans were making him feel pressure with some disguised blitzes after the line set.

 

I'm working my way through the all-22 and I'm pretty sure at this point there were also some tipped passes.  The announcing crew we had wasn't sharp enough to pick up on it, but I learned to watch for tipped balls in volleyball as the ball changing direction or spin at the point where it crosses the blocker's fingers, and I'm seeing that on the first pass to Knox (short right) and a pass to Diggs on the R in the 2nd half.

 

Agree with all of this.

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8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You realise not all Allen's INTs were on receivers? The first one on Tuesday was. Others have been (Beas v Jets week 1 2019) but not all have been.

 

Agree with all of this.

I was saying that a # that were blamed on Allen were the receivers' fault.  He has also thrown bad ints, like all other QBs.  The difference being that the media (and many here) would blame it on his accuracy in many instances.

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People blaming Allen need to just stop

 

Franchise QB's make bad throws ALL THE TIME....the difference is their receivers make plays on the ball when it hits them squarely in both hands.......

 

Its just idiocy

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I'm just hoping that a whole bunch of Bills players all decided to have their worst game of the year on the same day.

 

Now that that's all over, let's go slaughter the Chiefs!

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Roberts had a horrible game. Going into that game on multiple occasions this season i thought how great Roberts had been on special teams this year. 

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The difference between last year and the first 4 games of this season is that Allen's target zone has gotten a lot tighter.

 

He's still "off" the mark on a lot of his passes, sometimes to the point of negating any YAC possibility or forcing the receiver to catch the ball but then immediately go out of bounds...but the "miss" is much closer to the bullseye.

 

The misses used to miss the target entirely, so the incompletion was on Allen; now, most of the time, the incompletion is on the receiver.

 

The Titans game was in its own category in this regard; maybe not as fully bad as last year on average, but worse than the first 4 games this year.

 

What is more concerning about the Titans game is that it looked like the first game this year where a defense was able to confuse Allen and disrupt the mental component of his game, not the physical.

 

Any team we play going forward is going to look at the Titans film and copy what their D was doing, or at least use it as their starting point for preparation.  

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

The difference between last year and the first 4 games of this season is that Allen's target zone has gotten a lot tighter.

 

He's still "off" the mark on a lot of his passes, sometimes to the point of negating any YAC possibility or forcing the receiver to catch the ball but then immediately go out of bounds...but the "miss" is much closer to the bullseye.

 

The misses used to miss the target entirely, so the incompletion was on Allen; now, most of the time, the incompletion is on the receiver.

 

The Titans game was in its own category in this regard; maybe not as fully bad as last year on average, but worse than the first 4 games this year.

 

What is more concerning about the Titans game is that it looked like the first game this year where a defense was able to confuse Allen and disrupt the mental component of his game, not the physical.

 

Any team we play going forward is going to look at the Titans film and copy what their D was doing, or at least use it as their starting point for preparation.  

 

 

 

 

I don't think its concerning at all.  They were showing looks and doing things he wasn't use to seeing.  Now that he has and he has film to study of it, he will learn from it.

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12 hours ago, SCBills said:

That might be one of the most infuriating “interceptions” I’ve ever witnessed.  
 

Time. Place. Player. Circumstance.   
 

Roberts, who is normally never even in that situation, could not have picked a worse moment to flub what should have been a 15 yard strike for a first down.  
 

 

Which may or may not have set the course of the entire game. Don’t give a very good team on the road the immediate momentum. 

 

I just hope we bounce back from a poor performance. All teams have them, how you respond is the critical factor. 

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