What did so many of the draft experts miss about Allen?

[Punching Bag]

16 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

These media jackals. I had almost forgotten. It's so infuriating.

 

Beane made a comment on Josh: Nobody we spoke to had anything bad to say about Josh

Full comment: Nobody we spoke to had anything bad to say about Josh other than members of media whose opinion we did not factor in since they have never worked in a front office or on sideline.

[BADOLBILZ]

19 hours ago, TroutDog said:

I appreciate your thoughts but saying one right decision negates another is short sighted: QB is the ONE decision and they absolutely nailed it. 
 

Also, in my opinion, they knew where Ford was going to excel the entire time. 

It also seems that you aren’t keeping in mind their grand plan: to purge contracts that didn’t fit their DNA. 

 

Managing a team in the NFL is not simply a case of ‘this guy takes us to the SB and this guy doesn’t’ in my opinion. The nuances are radical and critical. 
 

If you view it otherwise (you clearly do), understood. I don’t. This regime is phenomenal. 

 

 

Thanks to the Bills embedded series.........where we see/hear Beane verbally covet and then pursue the trade-up for Ford because "we need a right tackle" we actually know that you are wrong about that.

 

[Ralonzo]

42 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Beane made a comment on Josh: Nobody we spoke to had anything bad to say about Josh

Full comment: Nobody we spoke to had anything bad to say about Josh other than members of media whose opinion we did not factor in since they have never worked in a front office or on sideline.

 

I was mostly referring to, the tweet was the first thing they asked about. And the second. And the third. And then some other stuff, and then back to it. And then a little other stuff, and back to an asked-and-answered ad nauseum bunch of *****-stirring.

[Punching Bag]

Just now, Ralonzo said:

 

I was mostly referring to, the tweet was the first thing they asked about. And the second. And the third. And then some other stuff, and then back to it. And then a little other stuff, and back to an asked-and-answered ad nauseum bunch of *****-stirring.

 

Yes,  they need to draw a line.  We have covered topic and we only have so much time - any other questions.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Sorry, but when you are knocking Beane for not taking a guy who was the last pick in the 2nd round who turned out to be the 9th WR taken in the draft and comparing his draft status to the 7th overall pick & the 3rd QB taken, you lose all credibility.  

Fans from every team could post the same thing based on how Metcalf is playing.  You can do the same thing whenever a guy gets overlooked by just about every GM & turns out to be a good to great player.

I repeat 9th WR, last pick of the 2nd round.

Somewhere in NY there's a Jets fan saying the Jets GM blew it by not drafting Gabe Davis before we did.   

You can do this every draft.  Why didn't we draft Brady in the 5th round? 

Just because you felt strongly about a player who the Bills didn't draft & you were right about his talent when no NFL GM thought of him as highly as you did, doesn't make you GM material. 

I trust Beane's judgement over any poster on this board 24/7.  

 

 

Credibility?😆

 

I've been calling it about as close to dead-on as possible for two decades on this site.

 

Including liking all of Beane and McD's first round picks(the players) from the get go............though Edmunds ain't going to make me look good if they continue to use him as a MLB and don't give him a shot to be a star on the edge. 

 

I'm sorry but the "well other teams passed on Mahomes and Metcalf" stuff just isn't the feather in the cap that some of you think it is.

 

One team wins the SB every year.

 

The margin of error is huge for fielding a competitive 8-10 win team every year......you can be wrong a lot.

 

It gets tighter at the top.

 

Unless, of course, your coaching staff includes Bill Belichick,   in which case you can draft like sh*t and still beat his'n with your'n.

 

[TroutDog]

30 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Thanks to the Bills embedded series.........where we see/hear Beane verbally covet and then pursue the trade-up for Ford because "we need a right tackle" we actually know that you are wrong about that.

 

 

Possibly. He may have also said that as he was recognized as a decent lineman and then they’ll see. 
 

Totally get it if anyone disagrees. 

[Protocal69]

20 hours ago, K-9 said:

Rare. Arm. Talent.

That was the play that had me sold on Josh Allen

[Hapless Bills Fan]

28 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

I was mostly referring to, the tweet was the first thing they asked about. And the second. And the third. And then some other stuff, and then back to it. And then a little other stuff, and back to an asked-and-answered ad nauseum bunch of *****-stirring.

 

I'm curious, I read someone on here recently say it's thought the Arizona Cardinals leaked those tweets.  If so, it must have been in an attempt to shy the Bills off of him.

 

Is there a source or story on this?

 

I did enquire of my friend, Mr Google, and got nothing, but I did find this gem:

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2018/5/8/17329316/the-arizona-cardinals-were-never-in-on-josh-allen-because-of-the-price

 

"Did the Cardinals like Allen, yes.  Did Keim get a pint of Cherry Garcia, go sit in a corner and sob while watching the first half of the Idaho Famous Potato Bowl? No, he drafted the better player. Allegedly, the one the Cardinals liked better."

 

Heh.  That Aged Well.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

 

Possibly. He may have also said that as he was recognized as a decent lineman and then they’ll see. 
 

Totally get it if anyone disagrees. 

 

 

I can only guess you did not see series.

 

That he saw Ford as the answer to their right tackle woes is not in question.

 

In Beane's defense he turned around and picked up Ty Nsekhe and Daryl Williams in UFA and at least half the league would love to have them at RT when healthy.

 

The reality is that even though Beane seems to have a good head on his shoulders he is still susceptible to reaching for needs in the draft in the heat of the moment.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm curious, I read someone on here recently say it's thought the Arizona Cardinals leaked those tweets.  If so, it must have been in an attempt to shy the Bills off of him.

 

Is there a source or story on this?

 

Maybe, but I never saw one. I think it was just speculation, like so much other “info” around the draft. 

[K-9]

41 minutes ago, Protocal69 said:

That was the play that had me sold on Josh Allen

Imagine being one of people on the Bills staff whose task it was to break down EVERY snap he took in college and scrutinize it to the Nth degree? I imagine they saw plenty such throws. I imagine they were reminded when they saw Allen hit Beasley on that 3rd and 22 

last Sunday. There are just a few people on the planet capable of doing that. 

[Albany,n.y.]

53 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Nobody 

Credibility?😆

 

I've been calling it about as close to dead-on as possible for two decades on this site.

 

Including liking all of Beane and McD's first round picks(the players) from the get go............though Edmunds ain't going to make me look good if they continue to use him as a MLB and don't give him a shot to be a star on the edge. 

 

I'm sorry but the "well other teams passed on Mahomes and Metcalf" stuff just isn't the feather in the cap that some of you think it is.

 

One team wins the SB every year.

 

The margin of error is huge for fielding a competitive 8-10 win team every year......you can be wrong a lot.

 

It gets tighter at the top.

 

Unless, of course, your coaching staff includes Bill Belichick,   in which case you can draft like sh*t and still beat his'n with your'n.

 

Wow! How could the Bills be so stupid to have picked Beane over you after Whaley got fired?   Your credibility sinks even lower when you post nonsense like this. Nobody has been dead on as possible (whatever that means) about anything for the last 20 years.   You were right because you agreed with Beane, but you were also right when you disagreed with Beane's 2nd round pick.  Guess what, I'd rather have Diggs and Ford than Metcalf.  Beane saw an O-line need last year & went for it after signing 2 WRs.  Then this year he went for  an established #1 WR.  You don't usually dial up #1 WRs at the end of the 2nd round.  If you're so good send your resume & posts from the last 20 years to the Jets.  They need someone who claims to be as good as you. 

[dakrider]

Compare Josh Allen coming out of college to DeMarcus Russell (for those who remember him. 2007 first draft choice by Raiders) 

Russell had about every physical gift you could hope for in a quarterback yet he failed miserably.  And the biggest reason he failed is he simply wasn't interested in putting in the time and work to be a NFL QB.  Thats the thing you can't really gauge well as a scout.  
Whereas Allen was a raw prospect and by all accounts really shouldn't have lasted this long, mostly because he didn't get to sit behind a capable veteran for a year and learn how to be a NFL QB.  He got thrown in way too early with a terrible corp or receivers and was forced to improvise just to survive.   And he learned from that experience whereas many might have wilted and now he's looking like he's mastered the craft of NFL QB.  

[ganesh]

On 10/1/2020 at 4:06 AM, Warcodered said:

I think where they missed was that they looked at the results of all the problems Josh had and not the causes. Surrounding cast, inexperience, and mechanics these were all problems Josh had but they were all fixable. Beane did look and with those fixable problems and with his incredible physical talent and drive he was a project worth working on.

The biggest takeaway in Billicks book on 2018 draft class about Josh Allen -   Everyone thought it was insurmountable for Josh to improve his accuracy.  It has never happened in the NFL!

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Character.

 

They missed his desire, his competitiveness, his brains. 

which is the same thing the NFL missed when allowing Brady to slide to the 6th Round.

[Shaw66]

36 minutes ago, ganesh said:

which is the same thing the NFL missed when allowing Brady to slide to the 6th Round.

That's interesting.  You're right.  

 

 

 

 

[Richard Noggin]

On 9/30/2020 at 10:16 PM, Nihilarian said:

"Allen will play well in an offense that emphasizes play action, moving pockets, and deep passing. He’ll struggle if he starts right away, unless coaches simplify his reads and emphasize his option to check down. He should head to a team with an established veteran so he can learn the ropes, otherwise his potential may never manifest on Sundays."

 

This projection is really effing spot-on. 

 

Of course the Bills got the "established veteran" part very wrong in 2018.

[Albany,n.y.]

On 10/3/2020 at 9:43 PM, dakrider said:

Compare Josh Allen coming out of college to DeMarcus Russell (for those who remember him. 2007 first draft choice by Raiders) 

Russell had about every physical gift you could hope for in a quarterback yet he failed miserably.  And the biggest reason he failed is he simply wasn't interested in putting in the time and work to be a NFL QB.  Thats the thing you can't really gauge well as a scout.  
Whereas Allen was a raw prospect and by all accounts really shouldn't have lasted this long, mostly because he didn't get to sit behind a capable veteran for a year and learn how to be a NFL QB.  He got thrown in way too early with a terrible corp or receivers and was forced to improvise just to survive.   And he learned from that experience whereas many might have wilted and now he's looking like he's mastered the craft of NFL QB.  

Russell was always lazy & never was going to make it in the NFL with his attitude.  I've seen stories about Ryan Leaf pre & post draft that also showed him to have a bad attitude.  One thing with Allen. Nobody ever found his attitude during the draft process to be anything but top notch, especially in his 3 pre-draft visits with the Bills.  Here's a gem I found about Russell's interview with Detroit: 

 

In 2015, Matt Millen said in a radio interview that he warned former Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis not to draft Russell in 2007. According to Millen, Russell struggled to pay attention during a pre-draft interview in his office during a visit to Detroit which had the No. 2 pick that year to the point where Millen kicked Russell out after he kept looking down at his watch.

"I keep talking to him, I ask him questions and he looks at his watch," Millen said. "I said, 'You got some place you need to be?' And he goes, 'Oh, no, no, no. I'm sorry. Sorry, sir.' So I ask him another question, he looks at his watch and I said, 'You're done, get out of here." Millen said he then told Russell to go to see head coach Rod Marinelli, who later also told Russell to leave his office. "So I'm done, I can't believe what I just witnessed, and so I call Al," Millen said, "I get on the phone and I say, 'Coach, I don't know what you're thinking, but don't take JaMarcus Russell. Don't take Calvin Johnson, but don't take JaMarcus Russell.

 

[Albany,n.y.]

I think I found the biggest epic fail of all the pre-draft columns:  https://primetimesportstalk.com/2018/03/05/connon-hypocrisy-reigns-in-the-nfl-draft-qb-conversation/

 

There are two quarterbacks in this year’s draft class who will emerge as stars, without question—UCLA’s Josh Rosen and USC’s Sam Darnold.

 

There are mock drafts that have Allen going No. 1 and Mayfield going No. 5, with Darnold and Rosen potentially falling out of the top 10. If any team passes on those two for Allen or Mayfield, that team should be dissolved.

'

In all honesty, I pray that the scouts for the teams at the top of the draft don’t overlook them too. They are generational talents, and much more suited for the NFL game than Mayfield or Allen—and don’t even get me started on Lamar Jackson.

 

Talk to me in a year, or maybe in five years, or ten. When Rosen and Darnold are taking over the league while Allen and Mayfield have faded into obscurity, I’ll be here, giving everyone a nice dose of “told you so” for good measure.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Albany,n.y.

[The Old Man]

If the so called "draft experts" are truly experts then why have some of their top rated draft prospects been busts?