Josh Rosen - the perfect push

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Or at least, teams seem to be deciding that a single season constitutes "I've seen enough".

 

I do think Rosen has gotten a bit of a raw deal.  To be on his 4th OC and 3rd HC in 2 years, the OL and WR around him...no question it is not an ideal situation for a developing QB.  If he'd only had one playbook and one OC to work with all that time, perhaps he'd be further along.

 

On the the other hand and to your point...when the head coach goes from criticizing the guy's body language/demeanor last training camp:

https://clutchpoints.com/dolphins-news-josh-rosens-body-language-needs-to-improve-says-brian-flores/

Rosen was visibly annoyed with teammates during a recent joint practice with the Buccaneers, during which his protection repeatedly broke down. Flores took issue with Rosen’s demeanor when speaking to the media after the practice, per Chris Perkins of The Athletic. “I thought he practiced OK,” Flores said. “From the naked eye, I think he’s got to do a better job of getting guys in and out of the huddle, his communication, body language. There were some plays there he didn’t like, and we’ve just got to move on to the next play.”

 

To saying he struggles with stuff a pro QB has got to be able to do:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29813475/dolphins-releasing-quarterback-josh-rosen

Flores said Rosen had the best arm of all the quarterbacks in camp, but Rosen fell behind when it came to the processing part of football -- identifying defenses pre-snap, being able to predict changing coverages and linebackers shifting, and ultimately being able to let the ball fly accurately and on time. Those are all skills Rosen has spent time working on this offseason in Miami.

 

We don't need a backup QB in B'lo who struggles to ID coverage pre snap and figure out where to go with the ball.  That would not be an upgrade on Barkley, even if he does have better physical talent.

 

 

Guy's essentially a spoiled rich kid, no drive or desire.

 

And this from someone who wanted the Bills to take him. I was wrong.

 

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Guy's essentially a spoiled rich kid, no drive or desire.

 

And this from someone who wanted the Bills to take him. I was wrong.

 

 

What puzzles me (kind of, but not really) is how he was the "most pro ready" QB in the class according to pretty much all of the analysts.  Normally, when that's the case, it turns out to be true (P. Manning, Newton, Luck, etc.).

 

His problems are clearly work ethic, attitude and the inability to lead.  He's a douche and it was clear he was a douche during the entire draft process.

 

Going into the draft, I said I'd be happy with "either Josh."  But after we drafted Allen and especially after watching/listening to Rosen during/after the draft, I was immediately in the "thank GOD we drafted Josh."

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Guy's essentially a spoiled rich kid, no drive or desire.

And this from someone who wanted the Bills to take him. I was wrong.

 

That was his "rap" pre draft, and I have no information that would confirm or deny it.  No one is saying he doesn't work hard.  So I think it's kind of a lazy-butt take on the situation.

 

The picture I'm getting is twofold:

1) he just doesn't seem to have the "it" factor - whatever "it" is - the personal qualities that make people want to hang out with you, help you, go the extra mile for you.

There are QB who have succeeded who don't have it - Roethlisberger was reportedly not well liked early on, Kelly in his early years as a Bill has been described in unflattering terms by Tasker and others.  But those guys do make up for that lack with sheer, overwhelming physical talent and physical toughness.   Rosen doesn't have those traits, either

2) he seems to honestly be struggling with the playbook and the speed of the NFL game from what Flores has said. 

 

I was a "wrong Josh"er myself and admit I was mistaken.  But I never thought 2) would be Rosen's downfall, for a guy described as "most pro-ready"

[16-0]

 

[Chicken Boo]

1 minute ago, 16-0 said:

 

 

Back with Leftwich and now has Bruce Arians and Brady to learn from.  Very smart move.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, 16-0 said:

 

 

So Leftwich wants him after working with him a season, and Arians is willing to give him a shot.  Kind of doesn't mesh with the "spoiled rich kid who lacks work ethic" narrative.

[billsfan89]

I just don't see Rosen staying happy and not causing issues as a backup in Buffalo. I do feel bad for him as he landed in a bad situation and got shuffled into another bad situation. Yes he might not be a starting QB but he got off to the worst start possible.

 

Luckily for him he can pick his next spot and much like Jamis I think the best thing for his career would be to go to a team like Pittsburgh with an established vet QB and a good system. Sign a two year deal with the Sreelers and rebuild your value on the bench without the pressure of starting.

[apuszczalowski]

15 hours ago, bobobonators said:

it really does strike me as odd, too. To hear numerous posters say Rosen has gotten a raw deal is a head scratcher.
 

Andrew Luck got a raw deal by being drafted by the Colts and despite the crappy franchise all he did was win.

 

Teams cant get rid of hot tub Rosen fast enough. When a player’s worth is addition by subtraction, stay away. 

Andrew Luck got drafted to a team that was almost constantly leading the division and had one bad year when they decided to 'tank' for him when Manning went down. I would hardly call that a crappy franchise. He didn't go to the Raiders, or Browns, or Jaguars.

 

Rosen went to a mediocre Cardinals franchise and then to a Dolphins franchise that was also assumed to be 'tanking'. He hasn't had any stability during his NFL career. His first HC leaves and is replaced by a guy who wanted 'His Guy' right from the start without even giving him a chance.

 

Going to Tampa might be a really good spot for him getting to learn from brady and getting back to coaches who are familiar with him where he won't be thrown in before he is ready.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So Leftwich wants him after working with him a season, and Arians is willing to give him a shot.  Kind of doesn't mesh with the "spoiled rich kid who lacks work ethic" narrative.

 

Might be a lazy take, but sometimes where there is smoke there is fire.

[CorkScrewHill]

Wrong Josh

[Albany,n.y.]

Over a year ago I wrote why I believed the NFL GMs had already concluded Rosen was a bust, here's what I wrote on another board:

 

Posted July 30, 2019
Here's something I posted elsewhere that summarizes my feeling Rosen is a bust:

1st round QBs, especially top 10 picks are considered gold. They don't get traded or released after 1 season. In the 50+ years since the merger, the only 1st round QB traded a year after he was picked other than Rosen was Kelly Stouffer and the only reason he was traded was because he refused to sign with the Cardinals & sat out his rookie year. Stouffer (6th overall pick of 1987 draft) was traded for a 5th in 1988 & a 1st & 5th in 1989. Rosen was traded for pick 62 of the 2019 draft & a 2020 5th, basically pennies on the dollar for the 10th pick the prior year. If Arizona thought Rosen had any long term future they 1) Wouldn't have hired a coach who wanted nothing to do with Rosen & knew he could have his pick of any QB in the 2019 draft & 2) Wouldn't have been willing to trade him for so little. Also the fact that Arizona didn't get more shows there wasn't a lot of interest in Rosen around the league. Clearly the NYG, Washington & Denver all thought that choosing a rookie QB was a better choice than a Rosen trade. Arizona may have helped devalue Rosen by tipping their hand on Murray, but most of his devaluation was caused by what the rest of the league saw on film.

If Rosen pans out for Miami, what it will say is Miami outsmarted the rest of the NFL. As I've said in the past when the Bills picked up guys who if they worked out, the Bills would have outsmarted some of the best GMs in the NFL now applies to the Dolphins: They're not good enough to be considered the smartest guys in the room. At least Buddy Nix admitted as much in a press conference.

Then: Here's the problem beyond just the 3 teams (NYG, WAS, DEN) that took rookies over Rosen before pick 62:

NE, who, like it or not, may be the smartest guys in the room made no attempt to deal for Rosen even after a 1st rounder was off the table. You would think picking up a QB who was a top 10 pick a year before and has 3 more years left on a pretty cheap contract would be good insurance for a 40 something Tom Brady. They passed. They later took a flyer on QB Jarrett Stidham in the 4th round (pick 133).

The Raiders may or may not think Carr is their long term future, but they preferred Nate Peterman & Mike Glennon on the roster than any thoughts of trading for Rosen-NATE PETERMAN !!!!

Who did the LA Chargers pick to back up Rivers? Not trading for the young prospect who was a top 10 pick who would be insurance against an aging Rivers, but Tyrod Taylor on his 3rd team in 3 seasons. They later took a flyer on QB Easton Stick in the 5th (166).

That raises the number to 6 teams, including the smartest guys in the room, who saw enough to not bite on using a 2nd round pick on Rosen. 5 of those teams drafted QBs, 3 before & 2 after. Teams that also picked QBs, beside those 6 were Carolina (3, 100), Cincinnati (4, 104), Philadelphia (5, 167), Jacksonville (6, 178) & Baltimore (6, 197). All those teams thinking of backup QBs and none thought enough to outbid Miami's low offer for a former top 10 pick. Even Arizona didn't want Rosen around unlike when SD drafted Rivers (actually traded Eli at #1 for Rivers at #4 plus extra picks) and kept Drew Brees for a couple of seasons. Arizona couldn't have been more transparent unless they put the word BUST over Rosen's photo on their website prior to the trade.

The Dolphins didn't outsmart anyone, no matter how incompetent the guys in Arizona are. All the guys in Arizona proved is their own incompetence as they wasted picks 15, 79 & 152 of the 2018 draft for 1 year of Rosen, pick 62 in 2019 & a 5th in 2020. I guess the way they felt about Rosen they feel lucky that they got pick 62 & next year's 5th.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That was his "rap" pre draft, and I have no information that would confirm or deny it.  No one is saying he doesn't work hard.  So I think it's kind of a lazy-butt take on the situation.

 

The picture I'm getting is twofold:

1) he just doesn't seem to have the "it" factor - whatever "it" is - the personal qualities that make people want to hang out with you, help you, go the extra mile for you.

There are QB who have succeeded who don't have it - Roethlisberger was reportedly not well liked early on, Kelly in his early years as a Bill has been described in unflattering terms by Tasker and others.  But those guys do make up for that lack with sheer, overwhelming physical talent and physical toughness.   Rosen doesn't have those traits, either

2) he seems to honestly be struggling with the playbook and the speed of the NFL game from what Flores has said. 

 

I was a "wrong Josh"er myself and admit I was mistaken.  But I never thought 2) would be Rosen's downfall, for a guy described as "most pro-ready"

I agree completely. Everyone likes to throw around that he is lazy and has no desire but there has been no indication of that in the NFL so far. And I don't see evidence of him being an issue in the lockerroom.

 

It has been a tremendous fall from grace for him. Going from a top 10 pick to traded, to released, to a practice squad QB. That's pretty incredible. He has actually gone through a lot of adversity. He is a victim of some circumstances beyond his control, and also just doesn't seem to be that good.

[Putin]

32 minutes ago, MJS said:

I agree completely. Everyone likes to throw around that he is lazy and has no desire but there has been no indication of that in the NFL so far. And I don't see evidence of him being an issue in the lockerroom.

 

It has been a tremendous fall from grace for him. Going from a top 10 pick to traded, to released, to a practice squad QB. That's pretty incredible. He has actually gone through a lot of adversity. He is a victim of some circumstances beyond his control, and also just doesn't seem to be that good.

No team wants to hold on to him for more then one season there’s probably more to it then ( just not being good ) 

BTW Peterman is not that good but still has a job 

[Fr. Jerk]

"There were nine mistakes ahead of me."

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Putin said:

No team wants to hold on to him for more then one season there’s probably more to it then ( just not being good )

 

Clearly coaching and OC changes do play a role.  There's also the "Fitzpatrick Factor". 

 

FWIW his rookie QB coach/OC is on the team that just PS'd him.  So if he does have something, he's in a good place to develop it now.

[Mike in Horseheads]

@CorkScrewHill   LOL, thanks for that memory. I'm sure all of those people now say they weren't there

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Wrong Josh

 

Hmmm, This aged Well!

[TigerJ]

I think Rosen ended up in about the best possible destination for him, finally.  In Tampa Bay, he's got a Hall of Fame QB in front of him, and a quarterback whisperer for a head coach.  If he can't learn how to be a QB in that environment, hen he can't learn, plain and simple.  Oh, and that Hall of Fame QB in front of him has one foot in the grave.  The guy can't play forever, so Rosen has the possibility of a starting gig whenever Brady hangs up his cleats.  It's hard to imagine that being more than a couple years from now.

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, TigerJ said:

I think Rosen ended up in about the best possible destination for him, finally.  In Tampa Bay, he's got a Hall of Fame QB in front of him, and a quarterback whisperer for a head coach.  If he can't learn how to be a QB in that environment, hen he can't learn, plain and simple.  Oh, and that Hall of Fame QB in front of him has one foot in the grave.  The guy can't play forever, so Rosen has the possibility of a starting gig whenever Brady hangs up his cleats.  It's hard to imagine that being more than a couple years from now.

2 years from now Rosen will be hosting poker games at his home in So Cal with other local bust QBs like Matt Leinart, JP  Losman, Rob Johnson and Mark Sanchez.  

[Putin]

15 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Wrong Josh

I was jumping for joy  when I heard Josh Allen !!

ill be honest my first choice was B Mayfield 

Josh Allen was my second choice , 

I didn’t not want Darnold or ESPECIALLY Rosen  !!! 
GO Bills baby !!! 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

6 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

2 years from now Rosen will be hosting poker games at his home in So Cal with other local bust QBs like Matt Leinart, JP  Losman, Rob Johnson and Mark Sanchez.  

We'll need to have a picture of that to compare with the ever popular 'Dogs Playing Poker' painting. 🧐  Ah, culture!

[SirAndrew]

20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So Leftwich wants him after working with him a season, and Arians is willing to give him a shot.  Kind of doesn't mesh with the "spoiled rich kid who lacks work ethic" narrative.

Yeah, I don’t understand where the “ spoiled rich kid” narrative comes from in regards to him as a football player. There are millions of successful people who grew up as “spoiled rich kids”. I think people just don’t take a liking to the guy, and write their own Rosen narrative at this point. He might prove to be a bust, but it’s because he didn’t have the tools to make it (weak arm etc), not because he’s spoiled. 

 

[TigerJ]

9 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

2 years from now Rosen will be hosting poker games at his home in So Cal with other local bust QBs like Matt Leinart, JP  Losman, Rob Johnson and Mark Sanchez.  

Maybe, but Bruce Arians thinks there's at least a chance Rosen can make a go of an NFL career.  BTW, I was not one of those who was all in on Rosen before the 2018 draft.  I didn't like him that much.  That hasn't really changes, but I know life throws us surprises now and then.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Yeah, I don’t understand where the “ spoiled rich kid” narrative comes from in regards to him as a football player. There are millions of successful people who grew up as “spoiled rich kids”. I think people just don’t take a liking to the guy, and write their own Rosen narrative at this point. He might prove to be a bust, but it’s because he didn’t have the tools to make it (weak arm etc), not because he’s spoiled.

 

Flores said he had the "best arm in camp" (ie stronger than Fitzpatrick, stronger than Tua).  It sounds as though the problem may be between his ears.

 

We have to take it with somewhat of a grain of salt, but reports are that Rosen had offers to sign with teams on the 53 man roster with a chance to play, but opted for Arians, Leftwich, and the Tampa Bay practice squad.

 

I think you kind of nailed the real Rosen problem - he may be a decent person at heart, but he's simply not very likeable!!!!  I remember listening to him pre-draft at press conferences and thinking "oh Gawd, if we draft him I'm going to be muting the post game pressers".   It's not that he didn't say stuff that made sense or had valid points.  He just went On and On and On and On though.  I kept waiting for someone to assign 'Crash Davis" to Rosen's "Nuke Laloosh" but it never  improved through the whole pre-draft process. 

Somehow I don't get the impression that after a bad loss where he could have played better, Josh Rosen's WR woulda come up and hugged him.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

47 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Flores said he had the "best arm in camp" (ie stronger than Fitzpatrick, stronger than Tua).  It sounds as though the problem may be between his ears.

 

We have to take it with somewhat of a grain of salt, but reports are that Rosen had offers to sign with teams on the 53 man roster with a chance to play, but opted for Arians, Leftwich, and the Tampa Bay practice squad.

 

I think you kind of nailed the real Rosen problem - he may be a decent person at heart, but he's simply not very likeable!!!!  I remember listening to him pre-draft at press conferences and thinking "oh Gawd, if we draft him I'm going to be muting the post game pressers".   It's not that he didn't say stuff that made sense or had valid points.  He just went On and On and On and On though.  I kept waiting for someone to assign 'Crash Davis" to Rosen's "Nuke Laloosh" but it never  improved through the whole pre-draft process. 

Somehow I don't get the impression that after a bad loss where he could have played better, Josh Rosen's WR woulda come up and hugged him.

 

See what I respected about Rosen is he is a rich kid but spoke out about things he saw as injustices when most kids in his shoes won’t care.  https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/josh-rosen-conor-mcdermott-ucla  And I know some people hate him because he speaks out on Trump.  
 

as for his current attitude, how could he not have a chip on his shoulder?  But I guess if he does really care about being a good nfl player, it’s time for him to prove now.