14 Positives on Marlins

[Big C]

8 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Riots, and going to bars without distancing. As good a guess as any. 

 

Realistically they just need to shut down bars again. There is no way to enforce the distancing rules at all times and we obviously aren't ready to just let the people loose. 

 

After months of half-measures we are just letting everyone out again and asking them to be conscientious. It isn't working. 

 

Four months ago I was like "oh yeah we've got six months until football; I'm not worried." And here we are, weeks away, and I don't think it's gonna happen. And yet, all these people who claim to love sports doesn't have the patience or concern to do their part in stopping the spread.

 

Our time is here and somehow a pandemic is going to ruin it for us. 

[plenzmd1]

18 minutes ago, Billl said:

What’s the death rate of the job force taking a hit?  That’s all that matters.

So there were 61,000 deaths from the flu in the year your article discusses despite no lockdown measures.  There have been 150,000 in the past 4 months from COVID despite a nationwide lockdown, and half the country thinks we’re doing too much.

From is way way different than what is being classified now as "with"...way, way  different. Let me ask you how this..what is the average length of stay in a state run nursing home?

 

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yep, simple. Here's how simple it is:

 

 

Masks have been shown to be far and away the best method of stopping the virus's spread, short of social isolation.

 

Combine that with readily available testing to anyone who wants it and tracing those that test positive, we could have had this thing well under control by now. Instead we're still sputtering along.

awesome to show a graph that is over a month old!!! Brilliant!!!! 

 

Now i know i can trust all things you post!

Edited July 27, 2020 by plenzmd1

[Mr. WEO]

28 minutes ago, MJS said:

Because tons of people are following the guidelines and the spread continues, especially in densely populated areas that have had strict and enforced policies.

 

 

Not true in the most densely populated.  NYC fixed their massive infection rate with strict enforcement and people following guidelines.  Now they are ordering quarantine for visitors or returning residents from 32 states. It worked.

 

Where "the spread continues",  they have not...and at least one governor simply calls becoming the countries epicenter "a blip", and another is suing to strike down a mandatory mask rule imposed by the mayor of the state's largest city.  These strategies by these "leaders" has given those citizens the inevitable and predictable results they are suffering through now.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

That said, Trump didn't call it a hoax. I feel like that has been fact-checked enough that people shouldn't still be making that claim. 

 

I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference between "it's a hoax" and "it will magically disappear on its own." But politics aside the real problem is that every state has its own policy. Without national mandates neither party would have been able to save us.

 

There was a time early on in the pandemic when I thought maybe in the long run this will be good for the country. Some day a disease that is literally an existential threat may hit our society. The larger our global population grows, the more likely that becomes. I thought maybe living through a relatively minor test run would force people to recognize that we need to listen to scientists and be prepared for this sort of thing in the future. But there are a bunch of people who think 100,000+ dead isn't really a big deal, or that the people who die would have died anyways, or that herd immunity will save us. It scares me a little.

[plenzmd1]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Not true in the most densely populated.  NYC fixed their massive infection rate with strict enforcement and people following guidelines.  Now they are ordering quarantine for visitors or returning residents from 32 states. It worked.

 

Where "the spread continues",  they have not...and at least one governor simply calls becoming the countries epicenter "a blip", and another is suing to strike down a mandatory mask rule imposed by the mayor of the state's largest city.  These strategies by these "leaders" has given those citizens the inevitable and predictable results they are suffering through now.

Or, maybe, just maybe, a level of herd immunity was reached...

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

From is way way different than what is being classified now as "with"...way, way  different. Let me ask you how this..what is the average length of stay in a state run nursing home?

 

awesome to show a graph that is over a month old!!! Brilliant!!!! 

 

Now i know i can trust all things you post!

 

 

Got a newer one showing something totally different?  

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

awesome to show a graph that is over a month old!!! Brilliant!!!! 

 

That's the best you've got? How about you look at a list of states where cases have been on the rise for a few weeks now and let me know if you notice a trend.

[MJS]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Not true in the most densely populated.  NYC fixed their massive infection rate with strict enforcement and people following guidelines.  Now they are ordering quarantine for visitors or returning residents from 32 states. It worked.

 

Where "the spread continues",  they have not...and at least one governor simply calls becoming the countries epicenter "a blip", and another is suing to strike down a mandatory mask rule imposed by the mayor of the state's largest city.  These strategies by these "leaders" has given those citizens the inevitable and predictable results they are suffering through now.

They fixed it by getting sick and then developing antibodies, haha.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference between "it's a hoax" and "it will magically disappear on its own." But politics aside the real problem is that every state has its own policy. Without national mandates neither party would have been able to save us.

 

There was a time early on in the pandemic when I thought maybe in the long run this will be good for the country. Some day a disease that is literally an existential threat may hit our society. The larger our global population grows, the more likely that becomes. I thought maybe living through a relatively minor test run would force people to recognize that we need to listen to scientists and be prepared for this sort of thing in the future. But there are a bunch of people who think 100,000+ dead isn't really a big deal, or that the people who die would have died anyways, or that herd immunity will save us. It scares me a little.

 

You think the States were ever going to listen to Trump? I mean, really? Trump banned travel from China, and the left accused him of being a racist. DeBlasio encouraged New Yorkers to go to the Chinese New Year festivities. Hypothetically, if, before the virus really took off, Trump, on the advice of medical experts, called for the nation to quarantine -- businesses to close, people to stay home, people to stop wearing protective gear -- do you really think the States would have listened? 

[plenzmd1]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Got a newer one showing something totally different?  

Not my job...but here ya go . Yep, they sure look like they have fallen off a cliff! @HappyDays

 

BTW, just to clear, both well over 100% growth in new cases since June 10th, the baseline date for the bogus tweet

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by plenzmd1

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, MJS said:

They fixed it by getting sick and then developing antibodies, haha.

 

 

If only...

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's the best you've got? How about you look at a list of states where cases have been on the rise for a few weeks now and let me know if you notice a trend.

POsted for you review..if you want to be taken seriously, dont use data that is over 6 weeks old. It's useless, and disingenuous

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

 

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Got a newer one showing something totally different?  

 

I don't want to sound like I'm in the anti-facemask camp. I'm really not. But I think California sort of belies this point. 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, plenzmd1 said:

Not my job...but here ya go . Yep, they sure look like they have fallen off a cliff!

 

 

 

Good thing this isn't your job.

 

Now show us what I asked for.  Give the equivalent to the original graph.

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

 

I don't want to sound like I'm in the anti-facemask camp. I'm really not. But I think California sort of belies this point. 

 

See above.  We talking about all states, as per the graph.  We all know that  Cali cases spiked in the past month.  

[MJS]

7 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Or, maybe, just maybe, a level of herd immunity was reached...

Agreed. People are so clueless. The place where the virus hit harder than perhaps anywhere in the entire world is suddenly getting better because of their genius policies? No, it's because the disease ran its course there and now it is running through the rest of the country. Eventually it will make it to the more rural locations.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Good thing this isn't your job.

 

Now show us what I asked for.  Give the equivalent to the original graph.

 

See above.  We talking about all states, as per the graph.  We all know that  Cali cases spiked in the past month.  

 

Sort of a distinction without a difference. I appreciate that the original graph was much more comprehensive. I really wish a similar graph existed for this point in time. That said, the conclusion to be drawn is that States that mandate facemasks show a decrease in cases. The opposite happened in California.  Its still a point that needs to be addressed. 

[plenzmd1]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Good thing this isn't your job.

 

Now show us what I asked for.  Give the equivalent to the original graph.

 

See above.  We talking about all states, as per the graph.  We all know that  Cali cases spiked in the past month.  

Okay sir!!! I will deliver what you asked for right now sir!!! 

Now show me what i ask for..show me all states with declining case counts over the last 3 weeks and whether they are mask vs non mask states. You will find zero linkage, guarantreed. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by plenzmd1

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, plenzmd1 said:

Okay sir!!! I will deliver what you asked for right now sir!!! 

 

Hey, you stepped forward and volunteered....

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Hey, you stepped forward and volunteered....

amended my response...prove there is a correlation between mask wearing and declining cases...and BTW i have been wearing a mask since late March

[Billl]

12 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Or, maybe, just maybe, a level of herd immunity was reached...

So herd immunity was reached by having 250,000 out of 8,500,000 people becoming infected?  Herd immunity with an infection rate of 3%.  I can’t wait to have a good laugh with my wife (head of her science department) about this as soon as she’s done with her webinar on how to best educate students during a pandemic (which she is literally on right this second).

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

36 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You’ve never read an article about flu season overwhelming ICU’s?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/%3famp=true

 

Man, everyone just graduated med school this year, huh?

 

 

OK, reading it do vaguely recall, but don't believe it made the national news for months on end as being an issue either.  Was it as widespread or more localized?

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Sort of a distinction without a difference. I appreciate that the original graph was much more comprehensive. I really wish a similar graph existed for this point in time. That said, the conclusion to be drawn is that States that mandate facemasks show a decrease in cases. The opposite happened in California.  Its still a point that needs to be addressed. 

 

 

Well let's see what happened in Cali.  See plezmid1's helpful graph above.

 

They shut everything down very early and this kept a huge population's incidence very low.  Then, in mid-June, they started opening up some.  The day after they opened bars, the DOH estimated 500,000 LA citizens went to the bars/restaurants.  Soon after, cases spike.

 

As a result, Cali recloses  counties where 3/4 of the population lives.  As the graph above shows, this has resulted in a decline in positives.

 

Meanwhile, down south where they are proud to act the fool, it's out off control and guys like DeSantis don't care.

 

 

This really isn't hard to figure out.....

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

So herd immunity was reached by having 250,000 out of 8,500,000 people becoming infected?  Herd immunity with an infection rate of 3%.  I can’t wait to have a good laugh with my wife (head of her science department) about this as soon as she’s done with her webinar on how to best educate students during a pandemic (which she is literally on right this second).

yes, go have a good laugh, and hopefully your wife is more educated than you on antibodies, testing, and herd immunity levels. But lets not let science get in the way of a discussion

 

Some ares on NYC 68% show anti bodies...most peg it at well over 20% in the city..even i am sure you will not question the science in the NYtimes

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-antibodies.html

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

amended my response...prove there is a correlation between mask wearing and declining cases...and BTW i have been wearing a mask since late March

 

 

It's been an honor serving with you.

[plenzmd1]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

Well let's see what happened in Cali.  See plezmid1's helpful graph above.

 

They shut everything down very early and this kept a huge population's incidence very low.  Then, in mid-June, they started opening up some.  The day after they opened bars, the DOH estimated 500,000 LA citizens went to the bars/restaurants.  Soon after, cases spike.

 

As a result, Cali recloses  counties where 3/4 of the population lives.  As the graph above shows, this has resulted in a decline in positives.

 

Meanwhile, down south where they are proud to act the fool, it's out off control and guys like DeSantis don't care.

 

 

This really isn't hard to figure out.....

BTW, if you think that last bar on the cases line means anything, you really have not been following this at all

 

Out of control in Florida...i mean why let a good political bent get lost in the actual..you know, numbers

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by plenzmd1

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said:

yes, go have a good laugh, and hopefully your wife is more educated than you on antibodies, testing, and herd immunity levels. But lets not let science get in the way of a discussion

 

Some ares on NYC 68% show anti bodies...most peg it at well over 20% in the city..even i am sure you will not question the science in the NYtimes

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-antibodies.html

 

Herd immunity is typically plus minus 80%.  And the science of COVID "immunity" is still not settled.

[HappyDays]

17 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Trump banned travel from China, and the left accused him of being a racist.

 

Is that true? I don't remember the left getting angry at Trump for banning travel as part of the pandemic response.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

49 minutes ago, teef said:

again...this will happen in every work environment.  you know what else will happen?  the job force will take a hit when people have no idea how to deal with care.  there's a big trickle down effect with schools closing.  

 

 

 

The job market has already taken a hit and doubt things will get close to the levels of Jan 2020 until things are much better overall.  The way I see it you have a choice as a country, shut everything down other than essential businesses like it was in March/April for about two months or keep limping along for the next year and a half.  Even if you shut down, will there be some flair ups, yes, but as soon as they start, you need to do what is needed to put them out on a local level and local could be as large as an entire state.   If you keep going the way we are, likely things like bars, movies, etc may not open for another year and for the most part polls say these days people overall would be in favor of that.. 

[uticaclub]

They are. That’s why guys are testing positive, the real test is how many positive tests are followed

by multiple negative results

[teef]

21 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

The job market has already taken a hit and doubt things will get close to the levels of Jan 2020 until things are much better overall.  The way I see it you have a choice as a country, shut everything down other than essential businesses like it was in March/April for about two months or keep limping along for the next year and a half.  Even if you shut down, will there be some flair ups, yes, but as soon as they start, you need to do what is needed to put them out on a local level and local could be as large as an entire state.   If you keep going the way we are, likely things like bars, movies, etc may not open for another year and for the most part polls say these days people overall would be in favor of that.. 

i don't think the choices are completely to shut down or limp along.  in ny we had a total shut down, had a phased opening period, and are still holding strong.  that's how it should be.  a lot has to do with how people were educated or how serious they took the initial shut down.  being in wny, most of us took it very seriously.  we played by the rules, wore and still wear masks, social distanced, etc.  my sister in law was in palm springs, and they were working on a completely different set of rules.  it was a big joke what was happening up north.  she was out on boats, kids hanging out with whom ever they wanted.  it was going to go away "once the weather became warm".  we saw that in a lot of other states as well.  well look were those states are now.  if people actually used their heads and played by the rules, we would not be in this position today.  

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by teef

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It's been an honor serving with you.

 

The real heroes. 

[plenzmd1]

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Herd immunity is typically plus minus 80%.  And the science of COVID "immunity" is still not settled.

show me one credible scientific peer reviewed study that shows  herd immunity at anything even approaching 80%..just one

[HappyDays]

33 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Not my job...but here ya go . Yep, they sure look like they have fallen off a cliff! @HappyDays

 

BTW, just to clear, both well over 100% growth in new cases since June 10th, the baseline date for the bogus tweet

 

 

I have multiple responses:

 

1) A multi-state study is more effective than single-state because it has a higher sample size. Pointing out one state that exists outside of the trend does not dismiss the trend entirely. That was the purpose of the initial analysis I posted.

 

2) California's mask mandate is omly about a month old. It is entirely possible that this was done too late and that they are still seeing lasting effects from the initial surge.

 

3) I found multiple articles that say most counties in California are not actually enforcing the law. In practice is more of a recommendation, and some argue the governor doesn't have the right to personally create a mandate like that. My personal thoughts on that argument aside, I would not consider that a good sample of a state that "mandates masks."

 

If you have a graph or link that differs from what I posted in total I would like to see it. You don't get off the hook just because California is an exception to the rule. That isn't how statistics work.

[WEATHER DOT COM]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Is that true? I don't remember the left getting angry at Trump for banning travel as part of the pandemic response.

 

It is 100% untrue. There is a fake tweet from Schumer that says this and no other evidence of the left getting angry at Trump for banning travel as part of the pandemic response to China

[Billl]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Is that true? I don't remember the left getting angry at Trump for banning travel as part of the pandemic response.

I distinctly remember the right wing pundits accusing the left of accusing Trump of being racist for his response.  I don’t remember anyone actually accusing Trump of being racist over restricting travel from China.

[WEATHER DOT COM]

Regardless, the Marlins results from today should be out soon...

[plenzmd1]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I have multiple responses:

 

1) A multi-state study is more effective than single-state because it has a higher sample size. Pointing out one state that exists outside of the trend does not dismiss the trend entirely. That was the purpose of the initial analysis I posted.

 

2) California's mask mandate is omly about a month old. It is entirely possible that this was done too late and that they are still seeing lasting effects from the initial surge.

 

3) I found multiple articles that say most counties in California are not actually enforcing the law. In practice is more of a recommendation, and some argue the governor doesn't have the right to personally create a mandate like that. My personal thoughts on that argument aside, I would not consider that a good sample of a state that "mandates masks."

 

If you have a graph or link that differs from what I posted in total I would like to see it. You don't get off the hook just because California is an exception to the rule. That isn't how statistics work.

bull crap...you posted data from June 24, i posted data from today!

 

You show me that graph of mandatory masks vs not rate increase of cases from June 10th to today.., you posted the old crappy data, go ahead and show me data from June 10th to today. 

 

And oh, by the way your thesis you were trying to prove with crap data is that mask wearing states are seeing decreases in cases by 25%, and non mask wear states are increasing by 82%...and than say california out cause they might not be wearing the masks...so that doesnt count. My lord man, can see you were not on a debate team or a law school graduate

 

And just to clear, show me where that tool came up with the case counts...what site was he using, what data etc was he using etc. 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by plenzmd1

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I can tell you how it would be different.

 

There would be 3000 dead and Republicans would be blowing their lid about the greatest failure by a President in American history.

 

It wouldnt have been 0 for anyone, ever. But starting the approach by dismissing a global pandemic as a "Democratic Hoax" set us down a path from which we are unable to recover.

Quoted for truth. #Benghazi

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You are dead right about the first piece. Republicans would have been absolutely terrible situation reversed. 

 

That said, Trump didn't call it a hoax. I feel like that has been fact-checked enough that people shouldn't still be making that claim. 

He said exactly what he needed to in order to put it into his supporters heads that it was a hoax while giving himself an out. "Their next hoax"

Edited July 27, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

11 minutes ago, Billl said:

I distinctly remember the right wing pundits accusing the left of accusing Trump of being racist for his response.  I don’t remember anyone actually accusing Trump of being racist over restricting travel from China.

 

@HappyDays Biden called him xenophobic; Pelosi and De Blasio encouraged people, in light of the China travel ban, to disregard the virus and attend the Chinese New Year celebrations. Take a look at twitter generally, however, and people were quick to call him racist for the travel ban. This in conjunction with the obsession over whether he should call it the Chinese/Wuhan virus.  

[Chaos]

8 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

Urghh...some symptomatic

 

 

In two weeks they will have 14 vaccinated playes