Bill O'Brien will kneel...JJ Watt says kneeling is no disrespect to the flag or military

[Beast]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If he can’t recruit and win he can’t keep his job. It’s really that simple. He’s going to lose talent and ultimately his job. It may not come immediately but he added a target to his back. He makes over $5M a year to recruit and win. This isn’t good for that. That was the point. 

 

In this day and age who gives a flying *****?

 

If being a Conservative white male keeps black kids from attending school because of that coach I have news for you....this country is *****.

1 minute ago, LB3 said:

Go to the Wiki for OAN. "Far right". ??

 

I know.

 

Amazing.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Beast

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Beast said:

 

Didn't you know that being a Conservative white male means you are a racist?

Supporting a network that doesn’t believe in Black Lives Matter isn’t a good career decision for a guy whose livelihood depends on gaining the trust of black families, no? You can’t possibly think otherwise. You can shout “cancel culture” or whatever but that’s a really, really, really stupid business decision. That part isn’t up for debate.

[LB3]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Supporting a network that doesn’t believe in Black Lives Matter isn’t a good career decision for a guy whose livelihood depends on gaining the trust of black families, no? You can’t possibly think otherwise. You can shout “cancel culture” or whatever but that’s a really, really, really stupid business decision. That part isn’t up for debate.

You're not wrong about the business aspect. You're 100% right. 

 

That said, notice what you just said here? Not that they disagree that black lives matter. You specifically referred to the organization. That they don't believe in the organization. An organization that is a funnel for ActBlue.

 

Grifting

[Rob's House]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

If you don’t think parents of young black men will be offended you’re wrong. Not even naive just straight up wrong. Coaches will use this against him often. If you think that this has zero impact on recruiting I have a bridge for sale. That’s the reason that he backpedaled like Deion Sanders today. It isn’t that he saw the light. It’s that he did MASSIVE damage to his recruiting efforts. 

 

That, in a nutshell, is everything that's wrong with this movement.

 

It used to be enough to respect each other's rights to freedom, equality, and dignity. Now the message is if you don't share my political point of view you're a racist.

 

This isn't progress. It's regressive and toxic.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, LB3 said:

You're not wrong about the business aspect. You're 100% right. 

 

That said, notice what you just said here? Not that they disagree that black lives matter. You specifically referred to the organization. That they don't believe in the organization. An organization that is a funnel for ActBlue.

 

Grifting

Regardless, the guy committed career suicide. It’s interesting because college athletics have a different business model than the pros. In the pros if you have ownership’s support you’ll be okay. 8In college you need the trust of the players and families as they have options. Team’s compete for these guys regularly. This will ultimately end his time at OSU. It might not be immediately but they aren’t going to have a choice. They aren’t going to be able to get the players necessary to beat OU (although he’s 2-13 against them). 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

If you don’t think parents of young black men will be offended you’re wrong. Not even naive just straight up wrong. Coaches will use this against him often. If you think that this has zero impact on recruiting I have a bridge for sale. That’s the reason that he backpedaled like Deion Sanders today. It isn’t that he saw the light. It’s that he did MASSIVE damage to his recruiting efforts. 

 

Maybe he should find out what the network's views are, BEFORE he puts on the shirt?

[Beast]

13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Supporting a network that doesn’t believe in Black Lives Matter isn’t a good career decision for a guy whose livelihood depends on gaining the trust of black families, no? You can’t possibly think otherwise. You can shout “cancel culture” or whatever but that’s a really, really, really stupid business decision. That part isn’t up for debate.

 

I don't support Black Lives Matter.

 

Should I be thrown off these message boards?

[LB3]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Maybe he should find out what the network's views are, BEFORE he puts on the shirt?

Wrongthink. What exactly are that networks views, in your opinion?

Edited June 17, 2020 by LB3

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

That, in a nutshell, is everything that's wrong with this movement.

 

It used to be enough to respect each other's rights to freedom, equality, and dignity. Now the message is if you don't share my political point of view you're a racist.

 

This isn't progress. It's regressive and toxic.

It’s different in this case though. The recruits (and families) have the OPTION to pick a program where the player will be in the best hands. They can certainly forgive him but they all want to put the player’s well-being above all else.
 

You can send your kid to Gundy or Mack Brown. What is important to that man is important to you. That’s why this was an epically stupid decision by Gundy. He has a right to believe in whatever he wants. His career is predicated on building trust with black people. That’s not the best way to do it.

[LB3]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Regardless, the guy committed career suicide. It’s interesting because college athletics have a different business model than the pros. In the pros if you have ownership’s support you’ll be okay. 8In college you need the trust of the players and families as they have options. Team’s compete for these guys regularly. This will ultimately end his time at OSU. It might not be immediately but they aren’t going to have a choice. They aren’t going to be able to get the players necessary to beat OU (although he’s 2-13 against them). 

I agree. He's not only a coward, he's dumb for not knowing this. No reason to apologize for your beliefs if forgiveness can't be had.

Edited June 17, 2020 by LB3

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

I don't support Black Lives Matter.

 

Should I be thrown off these message boards?

Does your career revolve around building trust with black families? If it does, I’d say you’re making a pretty bad decision.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

That, in a nutshell, is everything that's wrong with this movement.

 

It used to be enough to respect each other's rights to freedom, equality, and dignity. Now the message is if you don't share my political point of view you're a racist.

 

This isn't progress. It's regressive and toxic.

 

So how are OAN commentators comments on BLM showing respect for all of our rights to freedom, equality and dignity?

 

If your commentator calls a movement that is loose and disorganized but in general protesting and raising awareness to lack of respectful dignified equal treatment of black people by law enforcement a "farce" that is "only out for revenge", is that "showing respect for each other's rights to freedom equality and dignity"?

[LB3]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So how are OAN commentators comments on BLM showing respect for all of our rights to freedom, equality and dignity?

 

If your commentator calls a movement that is loose and disorganized but in general protesting and raising awareness to lack of respectful dignified equal treatment of black people by law enforcement a "farce" that is "only out for revenge", is that "showing respect for each other's rights to freedom equality and dignity"?

This is a fantastic post but not for the reason you'd think. You literally just proved his point.  Cheers ?.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, LB3 said:

Wrongthink. What exactly are that networks views, in your opinion?

 

Is calling my question "wrongthink" showing respect for my opinion and my right to freedom of speech in your viewpoint?

 

The point isn't what I think that networks' views are.  I don't watch it.  I don't wear a shirt with it on, either.

 

My point is what Gundy himself is saying.  If he is now "disgusted" after finding out what OAN's views on BLM etc are, perhaps he should find out their views before he puts on the shirt and wears it around.

 

It's like that kicker the Pats drafted with the 3 percenter tattoo on his arm.  He's now saying the group is something he doesn't want to represent.

 

I think it's better to take personal responsibility for what we do, which means doing some research and understanding what a symbol or a network or anything else we choose to publicize (or get inked on our bodies) means, beforehand - not backtracking "Oh, I didn't know, now I know and I'm disgusted!"

 

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's like that kicker the Pats drafted with the 3 percenter tattoo on his arm.  He's now saying the group is something he doesn't want to represent.

 

 

 

 

Maybe he now has some “regerts”? 

[LB3]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Is calling my question "wrongthink" showing respect for my opinion and my right to freedom of speech in your viewpoint?

 

The point isn't what I think that networks' views are.  I don't watch it.  I don't wear a shirt with it on, either.

 

My point is what Gundy himself is saying.  If he is now "disgusted" after finding out what OAN's views on BLM etc are, perhaps he should find out their views before he puts on the shirt and wears it around.

 

It's like that kicker the Pats drafted with the 3 percenter tattoo on his arm.  He's now saying the group is something he doesn't want to represent.

 

I think it's better to take personal responsibility for what we do, which means doing some research and understanding what a symbol or a network or anything else we choose to publicize (or get inked on our bodies), beforehand - not backtracking "Oh, I didn't know, now I know and I'm disgusted!"

 

 

That would be "no"

Wrongthink is what Gundy has been accused of. And he's not disgusted. Correction. I guarantee he's disgusted he has to apologize for it. But I digress.

 

You missed the point of Rob's post. Everyone has the right to think someone else's opinion is trash. Disagreement is good. Having your life ruined for not having the "right" opinion is where things stop being respectful. Gundy's career is essentially over because he likes a news organization. There's no respect for his beliefs. He's been canceled.

Edited June 17, 2020 by LB3

[Beast]

China supports Black Lives Matter.

[Rob's House]

19 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s different in this case though. The recruits (and families) have the OPTION to pick a program where the player will be in the best hands. They can certainly forgive him but they all want to put the player’s well-being above all else.
 

You can send your kid to Gundy or Mack Brown. What is important to that man is important to you. That’s why this was an epically stupid decision by Gundy. He has a right to believe in whatever he wants. His career is predicated on building trust with black people. That’s not the best way to do it.

 

It's not different. Of course they have the option, but the fact that this is even an issue speaks to the bigger problem.

 

The idea that a coach wearing a shirt with a news station logo lead people to worry about the well being of their kids or build mistrust illustrates the bigger societal problem here.

[LB3]

1 minute ago, Rob's House said:

 

It's not different. Of course they have the option, but the fact that this is even an issue speaks to the bigger problem.

 

The idea that a coach wearing a shirt with a news station logo lead people to worry about the well being of their kids or build mistrust illustrates the bigger societal problem here.

Taught mistrust sows more mistrust. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

[TroutDog]

3 minutes ago, LB3 said:

Wrongthink is what Gundy has been accused of. And he's not disgusted. Correction. I guarantee he's disgusted he has to apologize for it. But I digress.

 

You missed the point of Rob's post. Everyone has the right to think someone else's opinion is trash. Disagreement is good. Having your life ruined for not having the "right" opinion is where things stop being respectful. Gundy's career is essentially over because he likes a news organization. There's no respect for his beliefs. He's been canceled.

This is really shortsighted. News stations aren’t ‘opinion’. That is a segment on news. News is a fact that is being shared and opinion is just what it says. 
 

OAN, while you may appreciate it, is basically only opinion...an opinion that is not generally shared by the masses. Doesn’t make it wrong necessarily, but does make it dangerous for those in the public sphere as it is opinion based. 
 

As for the rest: disagreement is only ‘good’ if you have parties that are open and willing to listen and learn...and walk away when it gets too hot so they can come back later and be reasonable. Many are incapable of this today...like many here in this thread. 
 

My opinion. 

[Beast]

27 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Does your career revolve around building trust with black families? If it does, I’d say you’re making a pretty bad decision.

 

Yes. For the past 30 years and I do quite well with the black community.

 

Personal responsibility, no matter your race, is an AMAZING thing.

 

Now, ask me what I feel about white lives matter, yellow lives matter, blue lives matter...

 

I will tell you the same answer to those as I do to black lives matter.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Beast

[Blank Stare]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Yes. For the past 30 years and I do quite well with the black community.

 

Personal responsibility, no matter your race, is an AMAZING thing.

I’d venture to guess your work with the black community doesn’t involve telling them you are against Black Lives Matter. No, that little diddy is just for us special folk here.

Edited June 17, 2020 by TheProcess

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

It's not different. Of course they have the option, but the fact that this is even an issue speaks to the bigger problem.

 

The idea that a coach wearing a shirt with a news station logo lead people to worry about the well being of their kids or build mistrust illustrates the bigger societal problem here.

That’s the world and climate that we are living in. People in Gundy’s shoes need to be acutely aware of it. His livelihood depends on it. Fair or not, we are all accountable to our actions and beliefs. A guy whose career depends on building trust with young black men and their families need to be hyper aware. At best, Gundy is stupid. At worst, his values aren’t aligned with those he needs. Either way it’s going to be tough for him.

[LB3]

6 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

This is really shortsighted. News stations aren’t ‘opinion’. That is a segment on news. News is a fact that is being shared and opinion is just what it says. 
 

This is a notion that's been gone for a long time. "News" is hard to find these days. Editorializing is what sells.

Edited June 17, 2020 by LB3

[MILFHUNTER#518]

If he wore a BLM t-shirt, or a Biden 2020 ball cap, would the blowback be the same??

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Yes. For the past 30 years and I do quite well with the black community.

 

Personal responsibility, no matter your race, is an AMAZING thing.

 

Now, ask me what I feel about white lives matter, yellow lives matter, blue lives matter...

 

I will tell you the same answer to those as I do to black lives matter.

I don’t believe supporting OAN is a good recruiting strategy for a NCAA football coach. These families have many options. They will steer things towards people whose values are more in line with their own. That’s what WILL happen. 

6 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

If he wore a BLM t-shirt, or a Biden 2020 ball cap, would the blowback be the same??

Absolutely not!! It would probably help his case. College coaches are in sales first and foremost. They are selling the idea that their program is the best place for the kid. Saying, “our values are aligned” is a really good sales strategy. I’ve been in sales for 15+ years. It’s WAY easier to sell someone that trusts you and believes you have their best interest at heart. That’s common sense, no?

Edited June 17, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[Rob's House]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So how are OAN commentators comments on BLM showing respect for all of our rights to freedom, equality and dignity?

 

If your commentator calls a movement that is loose and disorganized but in general protesting and raising awareness to lack of respectful dignified equal treatment of black people by law enforcement a "farce" that is "only out for revenge", is that "showing respect for each other's rights to freedom equality and dignity"?

 

You're further illustrating my point. 

 

It's no longer enough to respect each other's differences, you must now subscribe to my views wholesale, lest you be labeled a bigot.

 

The organization Black Lives Matter is not just an abstract notion standing for the proposition that we should care if black people die. It's a political organization with a much broader platform. It is not racist, nor does it disrespect anyone's right to freedom, equality, and dignity, to criticize the organization, its methods, or its sincerity.

 

This deification of BLM is the equivalent of holding my hypothetical political activist organization above reproach. It's called Stop Molesting Children. We protest child abuse and adopt the entire right-wing platform. Anyone who criticizes us is a pedophile.

 

See how ridiculous that sounds?

 

To another point, if you're going to attribute all the statements of all the commentators of any station to anyone who openly likes that station, then no one can like any news network without being maligned.

[RiotAct]

anyone listen to Pearl Jam?  These lyrics seem to really resonate today, even though the song came out 22 years ago, which might as well be 22 centuries ago.

 

 

Brain of J:

Who's got the brain of JFK?
What's it mean to us now?
Oh, it's sound insurance
But I can tell you, this is no lie

 

The whole world will be different soon
The whole world will be relieving

 

You, you've been taught
We'd been the same, now they got you in line
Stand behind the stripes
There will be order, so give it a good mind

 

The whole world will be different soon
The whole world will be relieving

 

And by name
The name they gave me
The name I'm letting go

 

The whole world will be different soon
The whole world will be relieving

[Kirby Jackson]

You have to know your audience!! Lol, it’s not that complicated. It’s one of things that Trump has mastered. The reason that he’s anti-mask, law and order, open the country, etc... is because that what his audience wants. He plays to his base, his supporters and their beliefs. That’s a good business strategy for him.

 

A college coach needs to care about systemic racism. They need to care about the challenges that black people face in this country. That’s their audience!! 

[Rob's House]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s the world and climate that we are living in. People in Gundy’s shoes need to be acutely aware of it. His livelihood depends on it. Fair or not, we are all accountable to our actions and beliefs. A guy whose career depends on building trust with young black men and their families need to be hyper aware. At best, Gundy is stupid. At worst, his values aren’t aligned with those he needs. Either way it’s going to be tough for him.

 

That's kind of the point. The world we are living in is becoming increasingly divisive, toxic, and intolerant of opposing points of view.

 

That's not something to celebrate or encourage.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Rob's House said:

 

That's kind of the point. The world we are living in is becoming increasingly divisive, toxic, and intolerant of opposing points of view.

 

That's not something to celebrate or encourage.

It didn’t used to be this way, just saying...

[MILFHUNTER#518]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t believe supporting OAN is a good recruiting strategy for a NCAA football coach. These families have many options. They will steer things towards people whose values are more in line with their own. That’s what WILL happen. 

Absolutely not!! It would probably help his case. College coaches are in sales first and foremost. They are selling the idea that their program is the best place for the kid. Saying, “our values are aligned” is a really good sales strategy. I’ve been in sales for 15+ years. It’s WAY easier to sell someone that trusts you and believes you have their best interest at heart. That’s common sense, no?

This is a case study in how the far left does not support free speech. He is a private citizen. He should be able to wear an OAN tee just as much as he should be able to wear an MSNBC or CNN or Young Turks tee without blowback.

 

Conservatives ARE aligned with black families much more so than you would think. They oppose abortion, go to church more so than leftists by a large margin, are pro nuclear family, etc. The only reason this is an issue is that there is a quasi modo French Revolution going on right now, where ANYBODY that steps out of line with the Antifa narrative is destroyed. Conservatives need to screw on their gonads and pull on their big boy pants, this is a war not a skirmish. 

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You have to know your audience!! Lol, it’s not that complicated. It’s one of things that Trump has mastered. The reason that he’s anti-mask, law and order, open the country, etc... is because that what his audience wants. He plays to his base, his supporters and their beliefs. That’s a good business strategy for him.

 

A college coach needs to care about systemic racism. They need to care about the challenges that black people face in this country. That’s their audience!! 

Does the orange man destroy the antifa insurgents who took over 6 city blocks in Seattle, all the Karen's who chastise people who wont wear a mask outside in open air 20 ft away from anybody, etc.

 

This whole culture war is scary, man. We should be able to have our own views and EXPRESS THEM without fear of losing our livlihoods... 

[TroutDog]

22 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

If he wore a BLM t-shirt, or a Biden 2020 ball cap, would the blowback be the same??

I’m struggling to see how this is relevant: the point is a person of authority in the public sphere should recognize what is divisive and what is not. Surely so many here are not so obtuse to recognize this simple fact. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by TroutDog

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

This is a case study in how the far left does not support free speech. He is a private citizen. He should be able to wear an OAN tee just as much as he should be able to wear an MSNBC or CNN or Young Turks tee without blowback.

 

Conservatives ARE aligned with black families much more so than you would think. They oppose abortion, go to church more so than leftists by a large margin, are pro nuclear family, etc. The only reason this is an issue is that there is a quasi modo French Revolution going on right now, where ANYBODY that steps out of line with the Antifa narrative is destroyed. Conservatives need to screw on their gonads and pull on their big boy pants, this is a war not a skirmish. 

Does the orange man destroy the antifa insurgents who took over 6 city blocks in Seattle, all the Karen's who chastise people who wont wear a mask outside in open air 20 ft away from anybody, etc.

 

This whole culture war is scary, man. We should be able to have our own views and EXPRESS THEM without fear of losing our livlihoods... 

And the black player at Oklahoma State gets to express his as well.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

This is a case study in how the far left does not support free speech. He is a private citizen. He should be able to wear an OAN tee just as much as he should be able to wear an MSNBC or CNN or Young Turks tee without blowback.

 

Conservatives ARE aligned with black families much more so than you would think. They oppose abortion, go to church more so than leftists by a large margin, are pro nuclear family, etc. The only reason this is an issue is that there is a quasi modo French Revolution going on right now, where ANYBODY that steps out of line with the Antifa narrative is destroyed. Conservatives need to screw on their gonads and pull on their big boy pants, this is a war not a skirmish. 

He wore a shirt of a network that called BLM “a farce.” Unless you live under a rock the BLM movement is the single most important thing to black people in this country. If your livelihood depends on black people it’s probably a good idea to support what’s important to them. 
 

No one is denying that Gundy is free to believe what he wants. No one is stupid enough though to realize the potential repercussions on the recruiting trail. Ultimately, not supporting what your audience does is a great way to lose your job. It’s been happening in politics for decades. While he’s free to wear the shirt, recruits are free to go elsewhere. That gesture was career suicide. 

[TroutDog]

24 minutes ago, LB3 said:

This is a notion that's been gone for a long time. "News" is hard to find these days. Editorializing is what sells.

I completely disagree...unless you’re not looking for news. 

[Beast]

26 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

I’d venture to guess your work with the black community doesn’t involve telling them you are against Black Lives Matter. No, that little diddy is just for us special folk here.

 

No. Unlike the social warriors here it doesn't even come up when I am dealing with them.

 

Or whites.

 

Or Hispanics.

 

Or Asians.

 

Or Indians.

 

Not once in my 30 year career has anyone asked me how I feel about how their lives matter and we have worked together quite well.

 

Imagine that you little warrior you! ?

[Rocky Landing]

6 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

This is a case study in how the far left does not support free speech. He is a private citizen. He should be able to wear an OAN tee just as much as he should be able to wear an MSNBC or CNN or Young Turks tee without blowback.

 

 

This "blowback" your referencing is literally based on people's perception, and opinion of OAN. So, you're saying that Gundy should have the freedom to wear a T-shirt, but others should't have the freedom to express their opinion about it? How is that not a double standard?

[TroutDog]

24 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

He is a private citizen.

You do recognize how wrong you are here, right? Your entire argument falters at the outset. 
 

He is an employee of a public institution of higher learning who is responsible for coaching young men. Really? Just silly. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by TroutDog

[Rob's House]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And the black player at Oklahoma State gets to express his as well.

 

Imagine if the black player lost his starting spot for wearing an MSNBC shirt.