Is now the time to remove OJ Simpson from the wall of fame and HOF?

[Jauronimo]

12 minutes ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Perhaps.. probably.. but not 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt.  
 

Either way it has zero to do with his ability to dominate football games pretty much by himself.. in an era when every opponent knew that he was pretty much the entire team.  We are debating if he should be removed from Bills history.  The answer is a resounding F*** NO!

100% convicted of wrongful death of two people and paid out the ass in civil court to the tune of $35 million.  

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Tell me why you would want a murderer in bills history, numbers or records?

It's not about want he's there he's a part of all those things. You can't erase slavery from U.S. history just because you don't like it, still I wouldn't want a monument celebrating it.

 

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

100% convicted of wrongful death of two people and paid out the ass in civil court to the tune of $35 million.  

Don't forget the royalties from his book "if I did it"

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, KeLLy1278 said:

He was acquitted in a court of law.  Whether you agree or disagree with the verdict is completely irrelevant.  
 

And no, I’m not shy about expressing my opinion. Should everyone who doesn’t embrace cancel culture go hide in a bunker?  Someone gives you guys a finger and you want the entire arm.  It wouldn’t hurt to have cameras directed at people like you at all times.. to ensure that normal people (people who do not live, breathe, eat & drink PC culture) can live free.  

Congrats on the most recent cancellations.  

 

Man, you really are hurting over the Dr. Seuss...head to the grown up section of the library.  Who am I kidding...library?!

 

 

 

 

They may have taken away Agatha Christie, but you still got your "Murder She Wrote" episodes on the VCR.

 

53 minutes ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Perhaps.. probably.. but not 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt.  
 

Either way it has zero to do with his ability to dominate football games pretty much by himself.. in an era when every opponent knew that he was pretty much the entire team.  We are debating if he should be removed from Bills history.  The answer is a resounding F*** NO!

 

 

No one is debating that.   They are pretty much talking about removing his name from a piece of a wall at a soon to be demolished stadium.

 

So dry your tears.  And don't be so easily triggered...

[AlfaBill]

He’s human scum. I don’t give a sh1t about his stats from 100 years ago. Any self respecting fan would not want this asshat associated with their favourite team. 

[What a Tuel]

6 hours ago, Warcodered said:

It's not about want he's there he's a part of all those things. You can't erase slavery from U.S. history just because you don't like it, still I wouldn't want a monument celebrating it.

 

Don't forget the royalties from his book "if I did it"

 

How is it a monument celebrating it? The monument is celebrating his achievement in bills history, numbers and records.

 

You can't erase what he achieved from NFL history just because you don't like the person.

 

It is a part of bills history no matter how much you want to play the outta sight out of mind game. At the end of the day, just because you and others cannot distinguish between the person who committed terrible acts and the football player does not mean you have to force us to pretend he wasnt a historic player suited for the wall of fame.

2 hours ago, AlfaBill said:

He’s human scum. I don’t give a sh1t about his stats from 100 years ago. Any self respecting fan would not want this asshat associated with their favourite team. 

 

He is associated with the team no matter what. You can't erase history. Any self respecting fan would be able to distinguish between the two without being spoon fed it by whittling down his football achievements as some sort of retroactive punishment.

 

Its not healing anything to take it down either. Its silly.

[Jauronimo]

25 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

How is it a monument celebrating it? The monument is celebrating his achievement in bills history, numbers and records.

 

You can't erase what he achieved from NFL history just because you don't like the person.

 

It is a part of bills history no matter how much you want to play the outta sight out of mind game. At the end of the day, just because you and others cannot distinguish between the person who committed terrible acts and the football player does not mean you have to force us to pretend he wasnt a historic player suited for the wall of fame.

 

He is associated with the team no matter what. You can't erase history. Any self respecting fan would be able to distinguish between the two without being spoon fed it by whittling down his football achievements as some sort of retroactive punishment.

 

Its not healing anything to take it down either. Its silly.

Nobody is trying to erase his history or deny his achievements.  

 

We also do not have to HONOR a terrible human being just because he was a talented football player.    Do you think Bob Kalsu is up there for his achievements on the field?

[Greg S]

This reminds me of Pete Rose the all time hits leader and yet baseball has denied him his place in the HOF. What he did was a lot less serious than OJ. Gambling on baseball especially when you are the manager is wrong but its not murder. For me personally it won't affect me one way or the other. Its the Pegula's decision to put him on the Wall of Fame or Bills HOF at the new stadium. I believe the NFL hasn't taken OJ out of the HOF. This could go either way.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Greg S

[KeLLy1278]

15 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Man, you really are hurting over the Dr. Seuss...head to the grown up section of the library.  Who am I kidding...library?!

 

 

 

 

They may have taken away Agatha Christie, but you still got your "Murder She Wrote" episodes on the VCR.

 

 

 

No one is debating that.   They are pretty much talking about removing his name from a piece of a wall at a soon to be demolished stadium.

 

So dry your tears.  And don't be so easily triggered...

Thanks for intentionally putting me down for wanting to read children’s books to my children. Take a bow since you deserve it. Yikes! You point out Dr Seuss like it’s ridiculous yet you agree with it.  Parents should not have the responsibility of parenting their own children? Individual sovereignty doesn’t mean anything to you?  
 

Then you mention that I’m triggered yet you entirely absolve “Cancel Culture” from being triggered.  😂 

 

Tell me something.. since you seem to agree with everything that cancel culture stands for.  Where does cancel culture draw the line?  Is there anything that is off limits?  Classic films, classic books have been under heavy scrutiny.  Parents shouldn’t be troubled with possibly explaining trying times in our history?  The media should just eliminate it from view right?  

Agatha Christie is the worlds best selling author. Apparently all of these people are in the wrong for buying and enjoying her writing. Mark Twain needs to go too right?  Shakespeare?  All outdated trash that needs to be “cancelled” immediately because the public doesn’t know any better and needs to be ruled by an iron fist. 
 

Edited December 16, 2021 by KeLLy1278

[KeLLy1278]

5 minutes ago, KeLLy1278 said:

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by KeLLy1278

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, KeLLy1278 said:

You point out Dr Seuss like it’s ridiculous yet you agree with it.  Parents should not have the responsibility of parenting their own children?  Individual sovereignty doesn’t mean anything to you?  
 

Then you mention that I’m triggered yet you entirely absolve “Cancel Culture” from being triggered.  😂 

 

Tell me something.. since you seem to agree with everything that cancel culture stands for.  Where does cancel culture draw the line?  Is there anything that is off limits?  Classic films, classic books have been under heavy scrutiny.  Parents shouldn’t be troubled with possibly explaining trying times in our history?  The media should just eliminated it from view right?  

Agatha Christie is the worlds best selling author.  Apparently all of these people are in the wrong for buying and enjoying her writing.  Mark Twain needs to go too right?  Shakespeare?  All outdated trash that needs to be “cancelled” immediately because the public doesn’t know any better and needs to be ruled by an iron fist. 
 

 

 

I don't cancel anyone.  I don't condone it or practice it.  It's a stupid concept, as is complaining about it.  It's a nonissue in every serious person's activities of daily living. 

 

You can still buy any book you like.  Suess wasn't "canceled"--his estate decided not to sell certain books.  You cna still get them.  Likewise, Agatha Christie wasn't canceled--her books are available for sale.  You won't be able to find perhaps your favorite title of hers ("Ten Little N*****s)--but the title can still be found as the renamed "And Then There Were None".   No one has "canceled" either of them.  You and yours have made up something to rail against.

2 hours ago, Greg S said:

This reminds me of Pete Rose the all time hits leader and yet baseball has denied him his place in the HOF. What he did was a lot less serious than OJ. Gambling on baseball especially when you are the manager is wrong but its not murder. For me personally it won't affect me one way or the other. Its the Pegula's decision to put him on the Wall of Fame or Bills HOF at the new stadium. I believe the NFL hasn't taken OJ out of the HOF. This could go either way.

 

 

Rose belongs in the HOF

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I don't cancel anyone.  I don't condone it or practice it.  It's a stupid concept, as is complaining about it.  It's a nonissue in every serious person's activities of daily living. 

 

You can still buy any book you like.  Suess wasn't "canceled"--his estate decided not to sell certain books.  You cna still get them.  Likewise, Agatha Christie wasn't canceled--her books are available for sale.  You won't be able to find perhaps your favorite title of hers ("Ten Little N*****s)--but the title can still be found as the renamed "And Then There Were None".   No one has "canceled" either of them.  You and yours have made up something to rail against.

 

 

Rose belongs in the HOF

 

Agree. I could understand if he was banned from managing again but as a player he definitely belongs. 

[cwater10]

Having grown up as a sports junkie of a certain era, I often joke with people with that my boyhood idols were OJ and Pete Rose, so hey... what do you expect from me?  As an adult, I had an opportunity to meet and converse with Pete Rose over the course of an evening.  With no evocation, I can honestly say for that one evening, I would consider him for any short list of the most contemptible, awful human beings that I have come across.  He was rude, condescending and verbally abusive to those around him without provocation.  I still believe that he belongs in the HOF.  He was a GREAT baseball player.

 

I remain in awe of his baseball career.  Same with OJ.  I can say with conviction that he is the greatest football player that I have had the privilege to watch play.  He played with absolute mastery of his craft, both aesthetically and statistically.  He obviously has developed some serious personal demons, and appears to have demonstrated literally horrific behavior years after leaving The Bills and football.  Should he remain in the football HOF?  I believe that he should.  The Bills Wall of Fame is a different situation as it is a franchise specific honor, with franchise specific criteria.  Ralph Wilson chose to leave his name there.  The Pegulas will have a chance to re-choose when opening a new stadium.  They can continue to honor Ralph's decision or they can make their own statement.  They will alienate a portion of the fan base regardless of that choice.  I really don't care which way they go.  

 

My opinions on OJ are my own.  No wall or hall will change them.  We don't get to rewrite history.  We do get to change our minds about what that history means for us today.  That is an individual choice and in no way requires uniformity.  OJ Simpson was the most exciting Buffalo Bill I ever saw play.  His play and his presence on this team cemented my lifelong love affair with this team.  It took me a while to reconcile that fact with the events of his life after football.  Now that I have learned to separate those things, I am surprised how ambivalent I am on the issue of The Bills Wall of Fame for OJ.  That decision cannot change history now.  It can make a statement on how the team regards that history.

[What a Tuel]

9 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Nobody is trying to erase his history or deny his achievements.  

 

We also do not have to HONOR a terrible human being just because he was a talented football player.    Do you think Bob Kalsu is up there for his achievements on the field?

 

Again, just because you are unable to distinguish between the football players achievements and the murders doesn't mean the rest of us can't.

 

He existed and did great things on the football field. And did terrible things off of the football field long after the fact. Gotta live with the fact that a wall of fame about football will take into account the former rather than the latter.

[KeLLy1278]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I don't cancel anyone.  I don't condone it or practice it.  It's a stupid concept, as is complaining about it.  It's a nonissue in every serious person's activities of daily living. 

 

Your previous posts suggest otherwise.  Not only did you condone it, but you mocked someone who is against it.  The right to choose what someone wants to purchase or not purchase is "a stupid concept" and "a non issue in every serious person's activities of daily living" because you happen to not care about the media that was mentioned.  Good for you. You're obviously out of touch with why most of the world would love to live in the United States.  YOU do not care about something thus, "every serious person" must agree.  Spoken like a true entitled millennial. 

[Chandler#81]

In a word, No.

[AlfaBill]

1 hour ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Again, just because you are unable to distinguish between the football players achievements and the murders doesn't mean the rest of us can't.

 

He existed and did great things on the football field. And did terrible things off of the football field long after the fact. Gotta live with the fact that a wall of fame about football will take into account the former rather than the latter.

Distinguish between his football achievements and off field issues. Ok. The ring should symbolize both. If you can’t see why a murderer should not be honoured, I feel sorry for you. 

[What a Tuel]

3 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

Distinguish between his football achievements and off field issues. Ok. The ring should symbolize both. If you can’t see why a murderer should not be honoured, I feel sorry for you. 

 

I feel sorry for the people who think somehow pretending he wasnt good at football will make it even. 

[Mark Vader]

On 12/14/2021 at 6:17 PM, Breakout Squad said:

Cancel culture is a problem no matter where you are on the political spectrum 

Exactly.

 

Just ask Pepe Le Pew.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Again, just because you are unable to distinguish between the football players achievements and the murders doesn't mean the rest of us can't.

 

He existed and did great things on the football field. And did terrible things off of the football field long after the fact. Gotta live with the fact that a wall of fame about football will take into account the former rather than the latter.

Explain Bob Kalsu's inclusion to the Bills Wall of Fame.  Its not just about football.  Its about the organization choosing to honor those that best represent the team and its values.  Multi-murderers need not apply.

5 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Exactly.

 

Just ask Pepe Le Pew.

He is a rapey skunk.  Are people really defending skunk rape? Arguably worse, hes French too!!

13 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

I feel sorry for the people who think somehow pretending he wasnt good at football will make it even. 

We feel sorry for the few dullards who think choosing not to honor a murderer is pretending he was just an average player.

[What a Tuel]

9 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Explain Bob Kalsu's inclusion to the Bills Wall of Fame.  Its not just about football.  Its about the organization choosing to honor those that best represent the team and its values.  Multi-murderers need not apply.

He is a rapey skunk.  Are people really defending skunk rape? Arguably worse, hes French too!!

We feel sorry for the few dullards who think choosing not to honor a murderer is pretending he was just an average player.

 

James Robert Kalsu was selected in the 1968 NFL/AFL draft by The Buffalo Bills and played as their starting guard. After a fantastic season, the exceptional football player was crowned by the Bills’ team rookie-of-the-year.

 

Rookie of the year career cut short by serving in our military and sadly losing his life as a result. Not a large leap to make there. 

 

OJ Simpson was put on the wall in 1980 around 14 years before the murders. You are asking the team to forget that he qualified to be on the wall, and say based on later actions, he isn't a good fit for our "culture" and remove him retroactively. If that helps you sleep at night, fine.

 

I just don't see how it helps anything. Most rational people can separate it though. The idea that the people who can separate these things are somehow immoral is absurd. Just because you need to cope with the murders by deconstructing history doesn't mean we need to. 

 

Do you feel the NFL should remove him from the Hall of Fame too?

[Nextmanup]

I love all of these fan-provided definitions of what the "Wall of Fame" is about.

 

Does anyone actually have anything rooted in fact or reality?

 

Has the Bills PR department ever made a public comment or released an article through the website that spells out exactly what the organization DOES think the WOF represents?

 

I assume there have been some articles/quotes/statements about it over the years, but I doubt anyone in this thread has a clue what they actually are.

 

It's a lot easier to spin your own explanation to support your personal view of the "Wall".

 

 

[What a Tuel]

11 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I love all of these fan-provided definitions of what the "Wall of Fame" is about.

 

Does anyone actually have anything rooted in fact or reality?

 

Has the Bills PR department ever made a public comment or released an article through the website that spells out exactly what the organization DOES think the WOF represents?

 

I assume there have been some articles/quotes/statements about it over the years, but I doubt anyone in this thread has a clue what they actually are.

 

It's a lot easier to spin your own explanation to support your personal view of the "Wall".

 

 

 

This is what the website says:

 

The Buffalo Bills Wall of Fame was created in 1980 to honor former players, administrators and coaches who have played significant roles in the team's history. To be eligible for induction, an individual must have played with the Bills for at least three years and be retired from professional football. Also eligible are other individuals who have made outstanding contributions to the Bills, including administrators and coaches. Selections are made by a distinguished panel composed of club personnel and media members.

[Nextmanup]

From the Buffalo Bills website.  

 

Without further explanation, I say OJ stays on the wall based on this criteria alone.

 

The wall honors OJ as a player; and not any player, but arguably the best player in franchise history.  That's a significant role.   

 

 

The Buffalo Bills Wall of Fame was created in 1980 to honor former players, administrators and coaches who have played significant roles in the team's history. To be eligible for induction, an individual must have played with the Bills for at least three years and be retired from professional football. Also eligible are other individuals who have made outstanding contributions to the Bills, including administrators and coaches. Selections are made by a distinguished panel composed of club personnel and media members.

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Your previous posts suggest otherwise.  Not only did you condone it, but you mocked someone who is against it.  The right to choose what someone wants to purchase or not purchase is "a stupid concept" and "a non issue in every serious person's activities of daily living" because you happen to not care about the media that was mentioned.  Good for you. You're obviously out of touch with why most of the world would love to live in the United States.  YOU do not care about something thus, "every serious person" must agree.  Spoken like a true entitled millennial. 

 

lol millennial!!

 

I'm mocking those who get upset over such trivial stuff.  None of this really affects anyone.

 

No one  is preventing you from purchasing your Dr. Seuss and Agatha Christie books.  You made that up so you could whine about something.

 

 

[KeLLy1278]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

lol millennial!!

 

I'm mocking those who get upset over such trivial stuff.  None of this really affects anyone.

 

No one  is preventing you from purchasing your Dr. Seuss and Agatha Christie books.  You made that up so you could whine about something.

 

 

Certain films,  and yes, certain Dr Seuss books have been cancelled. Do some research before you shoot your mouth off.  And if you are not a millennial and are a bit older, your certainly come off like one.. which is even worse.  Either way run along.. 

[Fr. Jerk]

No. Naked Gun is still funny, ya dig?

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

James Robert Kalsu was selected in the 1968 NFL/AFL draft by The Buffalo Bills and played as their starting guard. After a fantastic season, the exceptional football player was crowned by the Bills’ team rookie-of-the-year.

 

Rookie of the year career cut short by serving in our military and sadly losing his life as a result. Not a large leap to make there. 

 

OJ Simpson was put on the wall in 1980 around 14 years before the murders. You are asking the team to forget that he qualified to be on the wall, and say based on later actions, he isn't a good fit for our "culture" and remove him retroactively. If that helps you sleep at night, fine.

 

I just don't see how it helps anything. Most rational people can separate it though. The idea that the people who can separate these things are somehow immoral is absurd. Just because you need to cope with the murders by deconstructing history doesn't mean we need to. 

 

Do you feel the NFL should remove him from the Hall of Fame too?

Bills team rookie of the year.  That was Kiko Alonso not so long ago.  What a distinguished season.  

 

For the last time, no one is asking anyone to forget a ***** thing.  No one is deconstructing history.  No matter how many more times you type this feeble thought, its just not reality.  If it helps you to sleep at night to keep repeating your mantra about erasing history, thats fine. 

 

I'm sorry that confederate monuments and the name OJ Simpson mean so much to you but your priorities are just plain stupid.  

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Certain films,  and yes, certain Dr Seuss books have been cancelled. Do some research before you shoot your mouth off.  And if you are not a millennial and are a bit older, your certainly come off like one.. which is even worse.  Either way run along.. 

The Dr. Seuss books weren't cancelled the organization that owns the rights to them decided to stop selling certain ones that had things in them they weren't comfortable with.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Certain films,  and yes, certain Dr Seuss books have been cancelled. Do some research before you shoot your mouth off.  And if you are not a millennial and are a bit older, your certainly come off like one.. which is even worse.  Either way run along.. 

 

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

The Dr. Seuss books weren't cancelled the organization that owns the rights to them decided to stop selling certain ones that had things in them they weren't comfortable with.

 

 

I told this guy this 4 posts ago.  His reply?--do some research!

 

He can't be for real...

[KeLLy1278]

5 hours ago, Warcodered said:

The Dr. Seuss books weren't cancelled the organization that owns the rights to them decided to stop selling certain ones that had things in them they weren't comfortable with.

This was a response to cancel culture and the unfortunate pull that they have in contemporary society.

[KeLLy1278]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

I told this guy this 4 posts ago.  His reply?--do some research!

 

He can't be for real...

I’m fully aware that they caved and hence pulled the books off the shelves.  
 

My comment directed at YOU to do some research, was after you said that Dr Seuss books have not been cancelled or pulled.  I pointed out that some have.  So nice try but no cigar. More like a trip and fall on your part.. “for real” hun. 😂 

Edited December 17, 2021 by KeLLy1278

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

I’m fully aware that they caved and hence pulled the books off the shelves.  
 

My comment directed at YOU to do some research, was after you said that Dr Seuss books have not been cancelled or pulled.  I pointed out that some have.  So nice try but no cigar. More like a trip and fall on your part.. “for real” hun. 😂 

 

nope

[What a Tuel]

20 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Bills team rookie of the year.  That was Kiko Alonso not so long ago.  What a distinguished season.  

 

For the last time, no one is asking anyone to forget a ***** thing.  No one is deconstructing history.  No matter how many more times you type this feeble thought, its just not reality.  If it helps you to sleep at night to keep repeating your mantra about erasing history, thats fine. 

 

I'm sorry that confederate monuments and the name OJ Simpson mean so much to you but your priorities are just plain stupid.  

 

You are deconstructing history. You want the bills org to retroactively decide that he actually does not qualify for the wall of fame after he clearly did for actions more than a decade later that are unrelated to football.

 

I don't know how confederate monuments get caught up in this but the more leeway you give cancel culture, the more they take. The rate they are going, even the founding fathers aren't going to qualify for any historical significance based on the notion that historically significant people can do no wrong, and if they do then they aren't significant.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by What a Tuel

[Nextmanup]

[HOUSE]

Just switch all the letters around so nobody will know

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, HOUSE said:

Just switch all the letters around so nobody will know

 

 

"Daddy...who's "Jo Sampson?"

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, HOUSE said:

Just switch all the letters around so nobody will know

 

 

Mojo Piss'n

[Gugny]

33 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Just switch all the letters around so nobody will know

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

"Daddy...who's "Jo Sampson?"

 

28 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Mojo Piss'n

 

Jism Spoon

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Gugny

[mjd1001]

I personally don't really care about whether his name is up there or not, or in the HOF.

 

I'm just not really a person that enjoys the Hall of Fame, or cares much about seeing or hearing about the 'legends of the game' or even the 'Bills legends'.

Personally, I think too much is made of the HOF and retired jerseys and names and numbers on the wall or rafters.  If I follow a sport, for me it is just about talking about the previous game and looking forward to the next game.  Not much more.