NFL's next great dynasty? Chiefs, Cowboys, Bills among candidates

[GunnerBill]

My top 6:

1. Chiefs

2. Ravens

3. 49ers

4. Bills

5. Cowboys

6. Browns

 

 

[FluffHead]

5 hours ago, Blue on Blue said:

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-next-great-dynasty-chiefs-cowboys-bills-among-candidates

This is written by Adam Schein. He is a Bills homer 

4 hours ago, ny33 said:

I knew Schein was very bullish on Buffalo, but had no idea that he voted for McDermott as Coach of the Year. 

 

 

He’s always been bullish, even in the Rex/Marrone years 

[Kirby Jackson]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

My top 6:

1. Chiefs

2. Ravens

3. 49ers

4. Bills

5. Cowboys

6. Browns

 

 

I like this list. Nice work GB

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

My top 6:

1. Chiefs

2. Ravens

3. 49ers

4. Bills

5. Cowboys

6. Browns

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I like this list. Nice work GB

 

As I wrote in my post, I just cant see the Cowboys as a candidate for a "dynasty".  Candidate for a near term Super Bowl, sure.  Dynasty is multiple Super Bowls and with all the money they have invested in Copper and Zeke, plus they would have to invest even more in Dak...I just dont see who they can keep a competitive team for a sustained period to win multiple SB and be labeled a dynasty.

 

Add in that McCarthy struggled to win more with Rodgers (who is clearly quite better than Dak as Rodgers is one of the GOATS of his generation) because he could never field a complete team, especially on defense, and I just don't see them as a "dynasty" candidate.  I think the defense is going to pay the price for all the money spent on the offense, and its likely to mirror the same fate of Rodgers and GB have had for most of his career.  I expect Dallas to remain competitive for a while, but a dynasty is multiple SB championships and I think that is an uphill battle the way they are built and run.  

 

The only way I can see Dallas having a shot at a dynasty is if they hit a lot on their draft picks on the defensive side of the ball every year.  And does anyone really trust Jerry Jones in that regard, especially on defense?  I just don't have that faith in him as a GM to find affordable talent consistently in the draft for that defense.  

 

Other than that GB, your list is exactly the same as mine, except I have Bills at 3 and niners and browns at 4 and 5.  

Edited May 20, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[Kirby Jackson]

26 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

As I wrote in my post, I just cant see the Cowboys as a candidate for a "dynasty".  Candidate for a near term Super Bowl, sure.  Dynasty is multiple Super Bowls and with all the money they have invested in Copper and Zeke, plus they would have to invest even more in Dak...I just dont see who they can keep a competitive team for a sustained period to win multiple SB and be labeled a dynasty.

 

Add in that McCarthy struggled to win more with Rodgers (who is clearly quite better than Dak as Rodgers is one of the GOATS of his generation) because he could never field a complete team, especially on defense, and I just don't see them as a "dynasty" candidate.  I think the defense is going to pay the price for all the money spent on the offense, and its likely to mirror the same fate of Rodgers and GB have had for most of his career.  I expect Dallas to remain competitive for a while, but a dynasty is multiple SB championships and I think that is an uphill battle the way they are built and run.  

 

The only way I can see Dallas having a shot at a dynasty is if they hit a lot on their draft picks on the defensive side of the ball every year.  And does anyone really trust Jerry Jones in that regard, especially on defense?  I just don't have that faith in him as a GM to find affordable talent consistently in the draft for that defense.  

 

Other than that GB, your list is exactly the same as mine, except I have Bills at 3 and niners and browns at 4 and 5.  

They wouldn’t have to invest a bigger cap hold than Dak currently has. With Zeke and Cooper under contract and Lamb on a rookie deal their skill players are here for a while. Maybe the defense pays the price but the key players on this team are under contract for years. If they keep drafting like they did this year they will remain talented.

 

Who specifically are you concerned about them losing? When I look at Sportrac I see a team in pretty good cap shape still. Maybe I’m wrong but it doesn’t look bad. They will need to sign Vander Esch but that shouldn’t be a problem.

[Chicken Boo]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m amazed that people are so down on Dallas. They have a ton of talent, a great draft, WAY better coaching and play in the worst division in the league. 

 

We're going to see.  McCarthy played a huge part in wasting a large portion of Aaron Rodgers' prime years.

[Kirby Jackson]

12 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

We're going to see.  McCarthy played a huge part in wasting a large portion of Aaron Rodgers' prime years.

Oh I’m not even sure McCarthy is ok. That shows how I feel about Garrett. He was Freddie Kitchens bad last year.

[GunnerBill]

39 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

As I wrote in my post, I just cant see the Cowboys as a candidate for a "dynasty".  Candidate for a near term Super Bowl, sure.  Dynasty is multiple Super Bowls and with all the money they have invested in Copper and Zeke, plus they would have to invest even more in Dak...I just dont see who they can keep a competitive team for a sustained period to win multiple SB and be labeled a dynasty.

 

Add in that McCarthy struggled to win more with Rodgers (who is clearly quite better than Dak as Rodgers is one of the GOATS of his generation) because he could never field a complete team, especially on defense, and I just don't see them as a "dynasty" candidate.  I think the defense is going to pay the price for all the money spent on the offense, and its likely to mirror the same fate of Rodgers and GB have had for most of his career.  I expect Dallas to remain competitive for a while, but a dynasty is multiple SB championships and I think that is an uphill battle the way they are built and run.  

 

The only way I can see Dallas having a shot at a dynasty is if they hit a lot on their draft picks on the defensive side of the ball every year.  And does anyone really trust Jerry Jones in that regard, especially on defense?  I just don't have that faith in him as a GM to find affordable talent consistently in the draft for that defense.  

 

Other than that GB, your list is exactly the same as mine, except I have Bills at 3 and niners and browns at 4 and 5.  

 

Dallas have so many good young players. Yes coaching remains a question, McCarthy might not be a great coach but he is a decent coach and will be better than Garrett. 

 

People talk a lot about Dak and Zeke but Zack Martin, La'el Collins, LVE, Jaylon Smith, Gallup, Cooper (although I don't love the contract they did), and then an excellent draft class. Lots and lots of young talent tied up for their best years. Yes they haven't got cap but so what? They have got elite players. And they have been one of the best drafting teams of the last decade. Once Jerry parked his ego and let Will McClay run the show their draft performance immediately improved. 

[Alphadawg7]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Dallas have so many good young players. Yes coaching remains a question, McCarthy might not be a great coach but he is a decent coach and will be better than Garrett. 

 

People talk a lot about Dak and Zeke but Zack Martin, La'el Collins, LVE, Jaylon Smith, Gallup, Cooper (although I don't love the contract they did), and then an excellent draft class. Lots and lots of young talent tied up for their best years. Yes they haven't got cap but so what? They have got elite players. And they have been one of the best drafting teams of the last decade. Once Jerry parked his ego and let Will McClay run the show their draft performance immediately improved. 

 

Im just skeptical they can keep it in tact personally.  And I think Jerry Jones is not a good GM overall and won't manage this team well.  And I do agree McCarthy is better than Garrett who should have been fired a while ago.  

 

The same things youre saying about the Cowboys were said about the Rams a few years ago...and now Rams are already seeing a down turn without winning anything as a result.  

 

Jerry Jones loves shiney objects and I do not think he will manage a thin cap well at all.  Again, talent is there on this roster, so not saying they cant be really good near term...conversation is about sustained dominance in terms of a dynasty.  And I just don't trust Jones to pull another dynasty off.  

Edited May 20, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[Motorin']

3 hours ago, BornAgainBillsFan said:

"The Patriot Way" probably goes something like this: "If you want to win a Super Bowl, come sign with us. But you'll have to take less salary to make it work. Here we focus on the team over the individual." THAT'S the secret to the NE dynasty. Tom Brady's average cap hit over his 20 years in NE was just under $12,000,000. It probably would've been twice that anywhere else. And he's just the most prominent example. Almost every quality Patriot over the past 20 years was underpaid. And they're roster was solid to dominant every year.

 

Belichick gets away with it, because he's Belichick: a winning GM/coach, but an ####### with a heart of stone, and everybody knows it. Anybody else, and the players would tell him to go pound sand.

 

Nowadays, a team's window to win it all is around 2-3 years, after they're drafted QB learns the ropes and before his $35,000,000 a year contract hits. After that, it's time to poach the rest of the NFL's teams' practice squads and sign UDFAs to fill out the roster.

 

So the Chiefs have this year to win it all again. Then they're done. Mahomes will get his 40/year, and will always keep them close, but their OL and defense will be swiss cheese. The Bills and Ravens have 2 more years.

 

Bottom line: the way QB salaries have skyrocketed these days PREVENTS any future "dynasties". Unless your GM is a con man like Belichick.

 

I don't disagree with this. I wonder if Mahomes will be in position to make more money form endorsements and go the Brady route in order to win as many rings as he can.

 

It's the Aaron Rodgers conundrum. He'll probably only end up with one ring through his whole career because the team around him wasn't good enough. And he has no one to blame but himself. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Motorin'

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

As I wrote in my post, I just cant see the Cowboys as a candidate for a "dynasty".  Candidate for a near term Super Bowl, sure.  Dynasty is multiple Super Bowls and with all the money they have invested in Copper and Zeke, plus they would have to invest even more in Dak...I just dont see who they can keep a competitive team for a sustained period to win multiple SB and be labeled a dynasty.

 

Add in that McCarthy struggled to win more with Rodgers (who is clearly quite better than Dak as Rodgers is one of the GOATS of his generation) because he could never field a complete team, especially on defense, and I just don't see them as a "dynasty" candidate.  I think the defense is going to pay the price for all the money spent on the offense, and its likely to mirror the same fate of Rodgers and GB have had for most of his career.  I expect Dallas to remain competitive for a while, but a dynasty is multiple SB championships and I think that is an uphill battle the way they are built and run.  

 

The only way I can see Dallas having a shot at a dynasty is if they hit a lot on their draft picks on the defensive side of the ball every year.  And does anyone really trust Jerry Jones in that regard, especially on defense?  I just don't have that faith in him as a GM to find affordable talent consistently in the draft for that defense.  

 

Other than that GB, your list is exactly the same as mine, except I have Bills at 3 and niners and browns at 4 and 5.  

 

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Im just skeptical they can keep it in tact personally.  And I think Jerry Jones is not a good GM overall and won't manage this team well.  And I do agree McCarthy is better than Garrett who should have been fired a while ago.  

 

The same things youre saying about the Cowboys were said about the Rams a few years ago...and now Rams are already seeing a down turn without winning anything as a result.  

 

Jerry Jones loves shiney objects and I do not think he will manage a thin cap well at all.  Again, talent is there on this roster, so not saying they cant be really good near term...conversation is about sustained dominance in terms of a dynasty.  And I just don't trust Jones to pull another dynasty off.  

You have your Dallas hate blinders on. Their team is almost entirely homegrown when it comes to key players and stars. They have their QB, #1, #2 and #3 WR, franchise LT and pass rusher. Combined with a couple other good OL players and two good LBers. Except for Cooper, almost of them were drafted by them. Dallas has done about as well as possible team building. Maybe they have a couple bad drafts and it falls apart but I really liked their 2020 draft and they have probably been one of the best teams in terms of drafting in the last 5 years.

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Im just skeptical they can keep it in tact personally.  And I think Jerry Jones is not a good GM overall and won't manage this team well.  And I do agree McCarthy is better than Garrett who should have been fired a while ago.  

 

The same things youre saying about the Cowboys were said about the Rams a few years ago...and now Rams are already seeing a down turn without winning anything as a result.  

 

Jerry Jones loves shiney objects and I do not think he will manage a thin cap well at all.  Again, talent is there on this roster, so not saying they cant be really good near term...conversation is about sustained dominance in terms of a dynasty.  And I just don't trust Jones to pull another dynasty off.  

 

Jones has taken his hands largely off the drafting. And so they will keep restocking with good young talent even if Jerry screws up the cap. 

[4_kidd_4]

Been waitin’ for this here baby about 20 years now.
 

Show it to me.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Chiefs - possibly 

Cowboys - no way 

 

Bills - I hope so!!!!

 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

 

You have your Dallas hate blinders on. Their team is almost entirely homegrown when it comes to key players and stars. They have their QB, #1, #2 and #3 WR, franchise LT and pass rusher. Combined with a couple other good OL players and two good LBers. Except for Cooper, almost of them were drafted by them. Dallas has done about as well as possible team building. Maybe they have a couple bad drafts and it falls apart but I really liked their 2020 draft and they have probably been one of the best teams in terms of drafting in the last 5 years.

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Jones has taken his hands largely off the drafting. And so they will keep restocking with good young talent even if Jerry screws up the cap. 

 

Yet they have been a constant underachieving team and total disappointment.  I will believe it when I see it on the field for a sustained period of time.  Already acknowledged they SHOULD be good in the short term.  I dont see it long term and they have yet to even be good let alone a dynasty with a loaded roster.  

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

Yet they have been a constant underachieving team and total disappointment.  I will believe it when I see it on the field for a sustained period of time.  Already acknowledged they SHOULD be good in the short term.  I dont see it long term and they have yet to even be good let alone a dynasty with a loaded roster.  

So are you arguing that they haven’t drafted well in the last 5 years? Because that was your initial point, you didn’t think they will draft well to sustain success. 

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

Yet they have been a constant underachieving team and total disappointment.  I will believe it when I see it on the field for a sustained period of time.  Already acknowledged they SHOULD be good in the short term.  I dont see it long term and they have yet to even be good let alone a dynasty with a loaded roster.  

 

They have underachieved. Particularly last season. But they have also won 3 division titles in the last 6 seasons, won a couple of playoff games and have been under .500 once in ten years. They have already been a consistently good team without being great. I am actually the exact opposite of you on Dallas. I think they will be good long term. While Will McClay is drafting they are going to be fine. Agree that climbing the mountain to being a great team even once is unproven. As it is for anyone on this list except KC and arguably San Fran. 

[Billl]

6 hours ago, BornAgainBillsFan said:

"The Patriot Way" probably goes something like this: "If you want to win a Super Bowl, come sign with us. But you'll have to take less salary to make it work. Here we focus on the team over the individual." THAT'S the secret to the NE dynasty. Tom Brady's average cap hit over his 20 years in NE was just under $12,000,000. It probably would've been twice that anywhere else. And he's just the most prominent example. Almost every quality Patriot over the past 20 years was underpaid. And they're roster was solid to dominant every year.

 

Belichick gets away with it, because he's Belichick: a winning GM/coach, but an ####### with a heart of stone, and everybody knows it. Anybody else, and the players would tell him to go pound sand.

 

Nowadays, a team's window to win it all is around 2-3 years, after they're drafted QB learns the ropes and before his $35,000,000 a year contract hits. After that, it's time to poach the rest of the NFL's teams' practice squads and sign UDFAs to fill out the roster.

 

So the Chiefs have this year to win it all again. Then they're done. Mahomes will get his 40/year, and will always keep them close, but their OL and defense will be swiss cheese. The Bills and Ravens have 2 more years.

 

Bottom line: the way QB salaries have skyrocketed these days PREVENTS any future "dynasties". Unless your GM is a con man like Belichick.

The record setting contract Mahomes signs is going to give the Chiefs a huge advantage over ever other team whose QB is not on a rookie contract. It’s not like he will get $40 million and the next best will get $30 million.  If Buffalo wins back to back AFCE titles, and Josh is a borderline top 10 QB, he’s going to get just as much or more than whatever Pat signs for.
 

The difference in salary between good QBs and elite QBs is tiny.  As QB salaries continue to skyrocket, teams paying top dollar for non-elite QBs are going to be the ones hurting the most.  Pat is worth $60 million, so he’s going to be a bargain at whatever he winds up getting. I think you’ll see him get around $42 million AAV, and Watson will get around $39 million.  THAT is going to be a franchise crippling contract because Watson is very good, but he isn’t anywhere near Wilson or Mahomes.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They wouldn’t have to invest a bigger cap hold than Dak currently has. With Zeke and Cooper under contract and Lamb on a rookie deal their skill players are here for a while. Maybe the defense pays the price but the key players on this team are under contract for years. If they keep drafting like they did this year they will remain talented.

 

Who specifically are you concerned about them losing? When I look at Sportrac I see a team in pretty good cap shape still. Maybe I’m wrong but it doesn’t look bad. They will need to sign Vander Esch but that shouldn’t be a problem.

 

On offense you missed two more years of Gallup too who just had a 1,000 yard season as a 2nd year player as well. Litetally the only contract decision I don't like that the Cowboys have made is paying Cooper before Dak. Sign your QB and tag your receiver if you have to. Other than they have made really smart decisions.

 

Overall this is correct. It is the Bills fan cap space obsession. Good players > Cap space. The Bills being good is going to require a lot of our fans to let go of the strange comfort blankets they have clung to in the past 20 years. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Billl said:

The record setting contract Mahomes signs is going to give the Chiefs a huge advantage over ever other team whose QB is not on a rookie contract. It’s not like he will get $40 million and the next best will get $30 million.  If Buffalo wins back to back AFCE titles, and Josh is a borderline top 10 QB, he’s going to get just as much or more than whatever Pat signs for.
 

The difference in salary between good QBs and elite QBs is tiny.  As QB salaries continue to skyrocket, teams paying top dollar for non-elite QBs are going to be the ones hurting the most.  Pat is worth $60 million, so he’s going to be a bargain at whatever he winds up getting. I think you’ll see him get around $42 million AAV, and Watson will get around $39 million.  THAT is going to be a franchise crippling contract because Watson is very good, but he isn’t anywhere near Wilson or Mahomes.

 

 

 

Watson is worth the 3rd or 4th biggest QB contract. Because he is the 3rd or 4th best Quarterback once you discount the old future HoF guys - Brady, Rodgers, Brees. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by GunnerBill

[JetsFan20]

It’s hard to imagine another Patriots level dynasty that sustains for 10 years let alone 20. Could I see a team going on a run and winning two Super Bowls in four years or three in five? Sure, but the league just isn’t designed for dynasty’s. 

 

Think about how much roster turnover there is in the NFL. How many Buffalo Bills players were on the roster three years ago? I can guaranty you that three years from now 3/4ths of the roster will change. That’s how it works in this league. 

[Alphadawg7]

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They have underachieved. Particularly last season. But they have also won 3 division titles in the last 6 seasons, won a couple of playoff games and have been under .500 once in ten years. They have already been a consistently good team without being great. I am actually the exact opposite of you on Dallas. I think they will be good long term. While Will McClay is drafting they are going to be fine. Agree that climbing the mountain to being a great team even once is unproven. As it is for anyone on this list except KC and arguably San Fran. 

 

Good does not equal "dynasty".  I think that is where me and you are not on the same page.  I am not saying they cant be good...I dont see Patriots like Dynasty...Cowboys like Dynasty...49ers like Dynasty, etc and is what the point of this thread was as the article is talking next dynasty.

 

Can they be good for a long time, sure, but can they be a dynasty and win 3 or 4 championships over the next 5 to 7 years...I don't believe it, I wouldn't bet on it, and I don't buy it.  

 

All good bud either way, all that matters is we all agree Buffalo is setup for this kind of potential   

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Good does not equal "dynasty".  I think that is where me and you are not on the same page.  I am not saying they cant be good...I dont see Patriots like Dynasty...Cowboys like Dynasty...49ers like Dynasty, etc and is what the point of this thread was as the article is talking next dynasty.

 

Can they be good for a long time, sure, but can they be a dynasty and win 3 or 4 championships over the next 5 to 7 years...I don't believe it, I wouldn't bet on it, and I don't buy it.  

 

All good bud either way, all that matters is we all agree Buffalo is setup for this kind of potential   

 

I never said good equalled dynasty. I think the Bills and Cowboys chances are very similar. They have two of the best rosters of young players in the NFL. I think the Cowboys have the better QB as we stand here today but I think the Bills have the QB with the higher ceiling.

[Billl]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Watson is worth the 3rd or 4th biggest QB contract. Because he is the 3rd or 4th best Quarterback once you discount the old future HoF guys - Brady, Rodgers, Brees. 

He is worth the third or fourth biggest contract, and he’s going to get at least that.  He isn’t worth 95% of what Mahomes is going to get or 110% of what Wilson got, though.  That’s my whole point.  QB salaries are basically slotted based on the top deal.  
 

Pat will set the market, and Watson will get about 95% of that.  Nobody in the world would prefer to have Watson at $39,000,000 over Mahomes at $42,000,000.  The difference in cap space is negligible, but the difference in their play is enormous.  The following year, one or more of Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, or Jackson is likely going to exceed whatever Mahomes gets, not because they’re better QBs but because that’s the way these negotiations work.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I never said good equalled dynasty. I think the Bills and Cowboys chances are very similar. They have two of the best rosters of young players in the NFL. I think the Cowboys have the better QB as we stand here today but I think the Bills have the QB with the higher ceiling.

 

Im gonna drop some words you dread...CAP management.  I trust Beane a heck of a lot more to retain our players, under the right contracts, and still find value across the roster in affordable signings and drafting well once we have to start paying our young guys their first big contracts.  I do not have that same confidence with the Cowboys.  Thats just the flat out difference for me.  

 

They have neglected Dak to over pay Cooper and over pay for a RB (Zeke's talent worth top dollar, but RB position isnt worth that hefty of an investment).  And Zeke didn't exactly deliver a season worthy of that contract last year, although the talent is there regardless, he is a beast.  They haven't handled Dak well since he got there between all the Romo stuff Jerry was saying while Dak was playing to how they have handled his contract.  I don't have a lot of confidence in how they run the team there.  

 

Cooper isnt worth $20M per year, and while Zeke talent wise is there, has even one team won a SB with a RB who is in the top 3 highest paid in the modern era?  Its just not needed, and thats a lot of bloated money into the RB spot and to a WR who isnt consistent enough to warrant that money.  

 

For me, I heard this all before here in LA as everything you are saying about the Cowboys is the same thing that was said about the Rams 3 years ago.  Now they are having to churn their roster to make it work and they are no longer the favorites, not even in the top 5 in the NFC.  In no particular order:  Niners, Seahawks, Cowboys, Packers, and Saints are all expected to be better.  

 

Like I said...all good...I just don't believe they are a potential dynasty...heck, we don't even know if this team is capable of winning anything because they are mostly in tact and haven't been winning much of anything despite being in a weak division.  

 

 

[y2zipper]

The Patriots dynasty has warped people's expectations, and even they went 11 years between Super Bowl wins. A lot of quarterbacks only win one because that's the going rate if you get 10 years of superstar play thanks to contract values, salary caps and because in a one-game playoff format that's now going to be expanded further, actually winning the Lombardi is more a product of catching lightning at the right time than it is about consistently being the best team in the league. This is the design of the NFL. In the 2010's, these 5 teams have the best records:

 

Patriots

Packers

Steelers

Saints

Seahawks

 

3 of these teams won Super Bowls during the decade, and the Saints and Steelers won in 2009 and 2008 respectively. Excluding New England, these teams also averaged 7 playoff appearances each between 2010 and 2020 and one Super Bowl Appearance each (but Seattle got there twice and New Orleans got 0 Super Bowl Appearances).

 

What this shows is that it isn't really possible to build an NFL team past the point where you're getting to the playoffs consistently. What these teams also have in common is that they've gotten superstar quarterback play and have been well-coached. With Bradey out, New England is probably done, and New Orleans, Green Bay and Pittsburgh are on the back end of theirs with aging quarterbacks.

 

Looking at this, I think that Baltimore and Kansas City are the next 2 obvious candidates to be good for awhile. Reid's been coaching that team well and been winning 10 games a year since 2013 and Mahomes has only been in the league 2 years. Harbaugh is also already proven in Baltimore. Outside of these 2, I'd look at Seattle, Dallas, Houston and San Francisco as teams I think will be really good for awhile because they're well-coached and have an extended period of superstar quarterback play ahead.

 

Philadelphia fits the bill if you project Wentz healthy, and Buffalo fits the bill if Josh Allen gets better.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Im gonna drop some words you dread...CAP management.  I trust Beane a heck of a lot more to retain our players, under the right contracts, and still find value across the roster in affordable signings and drafting well once we have to start paying our young guys their first big contracts.  I do not have that same confidence with the Cowboys.  Thats just the flat out difference for me.  

 

They have neglected Dak to over pay Cooper and over pay for a RB (Zeke's talent worth top dollar, but RB position isnt worth that hefty of an investment).  And Zeke didn't exactly deliver a season worthy of that contract last year, although the talent is there regardless, he is a beast.  They haven't handled Dak well since he got there between all the Romo stuff Jerry was saying while Dak was playing to how they have handled his contract.  I don't have a lot of confidence in how they run the team there.  

 

Cooper isnt worth $20M per year, and while Zeke talent wise is there, has even one team won a SB with a RB who is in the top 3 highest paid in the modern era?  Its just not needed, and thats a lot of bloated money into the RB spot and to a WR who isnt consistent enough to warrant that money.  

 

For me, I heard this all before here in LA as everything you are saying about the Cowboys is the same thing that was said about the Rams 3 years ago.  Now they are having to churn their roster to make it work and they are no longer the favorites, not even in the top 5 in the NFC.  In no particular order:  Niners, Seahawks, Cowboys, Packers, and Saints are all expected to be better.  

 

Like I said...all good...I just don't believe they are a potential dynasty...heck, we don't even know if this team is capable of winning anything because they are mostly in tact and haven't been winning much of anything despite being in a weak division.  

 

 

Yea but the difference is the Cowboys have all their guys signed. The Rams still had to sign guys and the biggest difference.... Snead is a ***** drafter and Will McClay isn't.... And yea. I HATE talking about the cap. The cap is a means to an end. The end is having good players and the Cowboys have plenty of them.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Im gonna drop some words you dread...CAP management.  I trust Beane a heck of a lot more to retain our players, under the right contracts, and still find value across the roster in affordable signings and drafting well once we have to start paying our young guys their first big contracts.  I do not have that same confidence with the Cowboys.  Thats just the flat out difference for me.  

 

They have neglected Dak to over pay Cooper and over pay for a RB (Zeke's talent worth top dollar, but RB position isnt worth that hefty of an investment).  And Zeke didn't exactly deliver a season worthy of that contract last year, although the talent is there regardless, he is a beast.  They haven't handled Dak well since he got there between all the Romo stuff Jerry was saying while Dak was playing to how they have handled his contract.  I don't have a lot of confidence in how they run the team there.  

 

Cooper isnt worth $20M per year, and while Zeke talent wise is there, has even one team won a SB with a RB who is in the top 3 highest paid in the modern era?  Its just not needed, and thats a lot of bloated money into the RB spot and to a WR who isnt consistent enough to warrant that money.  

 

For me, I heard this all before here in LA as everything you are saying about the Cowboys is the same thing that was said about the Rams 3 years ago.  Now they are having to churn their roster to make it work and they are no longer the favorites, not even in the top 5 in the NFC.  In no particular order:  Niners, Seahawks, Cowboys, Packers, and Saints are all expected to be better.  

 

Like I said...all good...I just don't believe they are a potential dynasty...heck, we don't even know if this team is capable of winning anything because they are mostly in tact and haven't been winning much of anything despite being in a weak division.  

 

 

The thing is that Dallas has already retained their young guys (depending on where Dak’s hit ends up). Only Vander Esch is up in the next few years of their “core” guys I think. Candidly I just glanced at their future situation but they are past the “Falcons point” where they have to cut guys. Dallas’ pivotal guys are there for multiple years and have been complemented by great drafting.

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea but the difference is the Cowboys have all their guys signed. The Rams still had to sign guys and the biggest difference.... Snead is a ***** drafter and Will McClay isn't.... And yea. I HATE talking about the cap. The cap is a means to an end. The end is having good players and the Cowboys have plenty of them.

 

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

The thing is that Dallas has already retained their young guys (depending on where Dak’s hit ends up). Only Vander Esch is up in the next few years of their “core” guys I think. Candidly I just glanced at their future situation but they are past the “Falcons point” where they have to cut guys. Dallas’ pivotal guys are there for multiple years and have been complemented by great drafting.

 

All good...I don't believe in Dallas front office managing a thin cap and restocking the cupboards.  They have yet to figure out how to win with the team for the last 3 years with a lot of these guys in place.  

 

We are talking about a Dynasty with a team that couldn't make the playoffs with this roster and the roster being mostly healthy last year in a bad division.  So...paper rich isnt the same thing as trophy case rich.  The team can look however great on paper, they aren't translating into enough wins and now are leveraged to the top with this roster.  They need to make this roster win...then they are going to also have to manage a maxed cap with WAY too much money invested in Cooper and Zeke.  Not to mention, can Dak be a SB winning QB or not...he hasn't been able to get them very far while having his best seasons of his career.  Now they are going to pay him too.  

 

End of day...Could be same as Rams...over paid QB, over paid RB, and over paid WR.  Rams had to ditch Cooks and Gurley just to try and get back on track.  Goff hasn't proven he can be a winner yet either yet he's paid like a HOF player.  When Dallas shows it on the field and the front office shows it can make sound contractual decisions...I will start changing my mind.  But ignoring Dak to over pay Cooper and Zeke...those don't seem like sound decisions to me.  Not a chance Beane would leave Allen hanging to over pay Devin and Diggs.   

 

Again all good boys...just difference of opinion on these guys.  Like I said, I feel they can be a contender...they are just 3 years too late to live up to that "gonna be a contender" status because for the last 3 years they were expected to win the division and be a SB threat.  Hasn't worked out.    

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The thing is that Dallas has already retained their young guys (depending on where Dak’s hit ends up). Only Vander Esch is up in the next few years of their “core” guys I think. Candidly I just glanced at their future situation but they are past the “Falcons point” where they have to cut guys. Dallas’ pivotal guys are there for multiple years and have been complemented by great drafting.

 

Yep. They are all signed and they don't backload deals. They are much more like Brandon Beane in their contract construction than @Alphadawg7

wants to give them credit for. They take the hits early on guys and retain maximum flexibility down the road. I am on record as not liking the Cooper deal much (and I think if you had guaranteed CeeDee Lamb falling to them they wouldn't have done it) but it is basically a 2 year contract. After 2021 they can get our very easily.  Even Zeke they could get out of after 2021 if they wanted to. Look at Tyron Smith and Zack Martin both no dead money in the last two years of their deals. 

 

Dallas has done a really good job with the cap when you actually get into it. I still don't love the Cooper contract especially when Dak is on the tag but overall they have been one of the better front offices in recent years. 

[Kirby Jackson]

55 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

All good...I don't believe in Dallas front office managing a thin cap and restocking the cupboards.  They have yet to figure out how to win with the team for the last 3 years with a lot of these guys in place.  

 

We are talking about a Dynasty with a team that couldn't make the playoffs with this roster and the roster being mostly healthy last year in a bad division.  So...paper rich isnt the same thing as trophy case rich.  The team can look however great on paper, they aren't translating into enough wins and now are leveraged to the top with this roster.  They need to make this roster win...then they are going to also have to manage a maxed cap with WAY too much money invested in Cooper and Zeke.  Not to mention, can Dak be a SB winning QB or not...he hasn't been able to get them very far while having his best seasons of his career.  Now they are going to pay him too.  

 

End of day...Could be same as Rams...over paid QB, over paid RB, and over paid WR.  Rams had to ditch Cooks and Gurley just to try and get back on track.  Goff hasn't proven he can be a winner yet either yet he's paid like a HOF player.  When Dallas shows it on the field and the front office shows it can make sound contractual decisions...I will start changing my mind.  But ignoring Dak to over pay Cooper and Zeke...those don't seem like sound decisions to me.  Not a chance Beane would leave Allen hanging to over pay Devin and Diggs.   

 

Again all good boys...just difference of opinion on these guys.  Like I said, I feel they can be a contender...they are just 3 years too late to live up to that "gonna be a contender" status because for the last 3 years they were expected to win the division and be a SB threat.  Hasn't worked out.    

That’s fair. At the end of the day no one knows what’s next. Dallas Is basically doing the same thing that the Saints have done for a decade plus. They kept everyone that they felt that they had to. Their top players stay for years. Now, I feel like Dallas has more elite players than the Saints but the Saints top end guys (and coaching) are better. The Saints have always been a contender but have only played in 1 Super Bowl ever. I suppose the Cowboys could be better or worse over the next decade but think that they will largely continue to follow that model. 

52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. They are all signed and they don't backload deals. They are much more like Brandon Beane in their contract construction than @Alphadawg7

wants to give them credit for. They take the hits early on guys and retain maximum flexibility down the road. I am on record as not liking the Cooper deal much (and I think if you had guaranteed CeeDee Lamb falling to them they wouldn't have done it) but it is basically a 2 year contract. After 2021 they can get our very easily.  Even Zeke they could get out of after 2021 if they wanted to. Look at Tyron Smith and Zack Martin both no dead money in the last two years of their deals. 

 

Dallas has done a really good job with the cap when you actually get into it. I still don't love the Cooper contract especially when Dak is on the tag but overall they have been one of the better front offices in recent years. 

You can add Lawrence to that as well. He has a $14M savings after 2021 I think. They have done a really nice job managing it (Cooper deal aside).

Edited May 21, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[LABILLBACKER]

Pretty accurate. You could shuffle the Eagles or Bills at the 4 spot. I'd put Dallas at 6. I'm not a huge Dak fan and I think his contract negotiation will get ugly. The bottom line is teams will be chasing KC for awhile. 

[Alphadawg7]

@Kirby Jackson and @GunnerBill

 

Cheers boys...good convo, good counter points.  I still not sold on them potentially becoming a dynasty as I still think the Zeke and Cooper deals were mistakes and Dak situation is going to get messy.  But still enjoyed the opposing dialogue.  Hopefully I am right thought because the only Dynasty we want to see is a BILLS DYNASTY!  Am I right?  HAHA Cheers

[Billl]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. They are all signed and they don't backload deals. They are much more like Brandon Beane in their contract construction than @Alphadawg7

wants to give them credit for. They take the hits early on guys and retain maximum flexibility down the road. I am on record as not liking the Cooper deal much (and I think if you had guaranteed CeeDee Lamb falling to them they wouldn't have done it) but it is basically a 2 year contract. After 2021 they can get our very easily.  Even Zeke they could get out of after 2021 if they wanted to. Look at Tyron Smith and Zack Martin both no dead money in the last two years of their deals. 

 

Dallas has done a really good job with the cap when you actually get into it. I still don't love the Cooper contract especially when Dak is on the tag but overall they have been one of the better front offices in recent years. 

Do you think there’s a chance their plan is to roll with Dalton for a year or two and go all in for a top QB in next year’s draft?  It kind of feels that way to me.  If they think he’s QB purgatory, Dalton could be their Alex Smith while they groom the new guy to ease him into a stacked roster.

[y2zipper]

15 minutes ago, Billl said:

Do you think there’s a chance their plan is to roll with Dalton for a year or two and go all in for a top QB in next year’s draft?  It kind of feels that way to me.  If they think he’s QB purgatory, Dalton could be their Alex Smith while they groom the new guy to ease him into a stacked roster.

 

The idea that Dalton is some kind of leverage is absurd if the Cowboys actually want to compete but would fit with the idea that Jerry doesn't know what he's doing. Of Dak really wanted to bring that point home he could hold out but the fact that he won't is part of the reason you do a deal with him.

 

The current squabble is over a 5th year. Dak wants another bite at free agency going into his age 30 season or wants Dallas to pay a premium for that year.

[BillsFan692]

17 hours ago, Greg S said:

What the Pats did was amazing but they had/have the GOAT HC/QB during that time. I don't think you will see a dynasty like that again. FA and salary cap make it almost impossible to be that dominant. The league is all about parity which makes what the Pats accomplished all that more impressive. I hope the Bills can have a run like the Giants had with Coughlin with two Super Bowls. Would love for the Bills to do what the Pats did over the last 20 years but I don't see any team doing that.

Don't delude yourself, the NFL picks the winners and losers by exerting as much influence as possible. 

It's not a "statistical improbability" what Belichick and Brady have done, one only has to consider all of the angles. Sure, Brady and Bill are good, great even. But that's all it took to get started. Once the NFL realized what they had in the "patriots" (a team EVERBODY loves & hates) it just made complete and total business sense to insure that gravy train kept rolling along. Whether that takes the form of soft discipline, special referee treatment, soft schedules, etc. It gets the job done.

But those days are numbered and it's time for the NFL to turn the corner. What's the next new and exciting team that they can 'sell'. I can see the bills in the running. We'll see how the refs calls go our way (or not) through out this season... we'll get a sense of where we stand. 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Billl said:

Do you think there’s a chance their plan is to roll with Dalton for a year or two and go all in for a top QB in next year’s draft?  It kind of feels that way to me.  If they think he’s QB purgatory, Dalton could be their Alex Smith while they groom the new guy to ease him into a stacked roster.

 

No they plan to sign Dak. 

[papazoid]

Dynasty ?....thats a mouthful

 

only KC is currently on that list right now for me, with that kind of potential.

 

credit to beane and mcdermott for getting us on such a list

[Fr. Jerk]

Chiefs gonna be a dynasty until Mahomes gets paid, ya dig?

 

Cowboys? Lololololol.

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

@Kirby Jackson and @GunnerBill

 

Cheers boys...good convo, good counter points.  I still not sold on them potentially becoming a dynasty as I still think the Zeke and Cooper deals were mistakes and Dak situation is going to get messy.  But still enjoyed the opposing dialogue.  Hopefully I am right thought because the only Dynasty we want to see is a BILLS DYNASTY!  Am I right?  HAHA Cheers

 

My NFL rooting interests are very simple.

 

1. Buffalo Bills

2. Drew Brees to get another ring

 

I couldn't care less who does or doesn't win after that.

[prissythecat]

5 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

Don't delude yourself, the NFL picks the winners and losers by exerting as much influence as possible. 

It's not a "statistical improbability" what Belichick and Brady have done, one only has to consider all of the angles. Sure, Brady and Bill are good, great even. But that's all it took to get started. Once the NFL realized what they had in the "patriots" (a team EVERBODY loves & hates) it just made complete and total business sense to insure that gravy train kept rolling along. Whether that takes the form of soft discipline, special referee treatment, soft schedules, etc. It gets the job done.

But those days are numbered and it's time for the NFL to turn the corner. What's the next new and exciting team that they can 'sell'. I can see the bills in the running. We'll see how the refs calls go our way (or not) through out this season... we'll get a sense of where we stand.