Defensive Backs in Top 10 of Round 1

[Bill from NYC]

I was not surprised to see the Jaguars and the Lions draft Top 10 first round DBs. Why not? Because one can make a case that these particular teams are long time second rate organizations. Their drafts are every bit as bad as ours in the "bad old days" or so it would seem.

The Lions were just so bad that they picked at #3. Could one even imagine how many problems they had to pick so early? They have a QB with a monster arm and there were receivers galore. They probably could have traded down and selected Lamb, Ruggs or Jeudy AND acquired extra picks but no; they really had to take that corner at #3. There were very good blockers available, and they could have even taken a QB to eventually replace Stafford. Incredible.

 

The Jags are another team that historically drafts poorly. They have issues galore. Their method of fixing said issues? A DB at #9. While unquestionably stupid, it was not quite on the same level of idiocy displayed by the ever horrible Lions, who would even appear to be tanking for Trevor.

 

I am on record as being skeptical of the trade for Diggs, but it looks wonderful compared to the above decisions.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[CaptnCoke11]

Miami killed it too.. Tua is a question mark at best, average OT and a project CB.  Just a terrible organization. 

[Bill from NYC]

4 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Miami killed it too.. Tua is a question mark at best, average OT and a project CB.  Just a terrible organization. 

I am a huge fan of Tua but either way, taking a chance on a qb who might be great does make sense.  The owner will make a TON of money if Tua pans out too so yeah, I can relate to the move but a corner at #3? Yikes!

[jrober38]

The way most NFL teams build their franchises is inherently flawed. 

 

If you're a team like Detroit, what are you doing? As you said, what does a CB do to move the needle? Probably not much.

 

If you're in that position, why are you still married to Stafford, and why are you not tearing that thing down, stock piling picks and going after a franchise QB?

 

On the flip side I like where Miami is going. They got their QB, they got a 20 year old LT with enormous upside and they got a corner which was obviously a coveted position last night. They have some pieces and I think they're about to go on a similar path to the one we had when we first drafted Josh. 

[Bill from NYC]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

The way most NFL teams build their franchises is inherently flawed. 

 

If you're a team like Detroit, what are you doing? As you said, what does a CB do to move the needle? Probably not much.

 

If you're in that position, why are you still married to Stafford, and why are you not tearing that thing down, stock piling picks and going after a franchise QB?

 

On the flip side I like where Miami is going. They got their QB, they got a 20 year old LT with enormous upside and they got a corner which was obviously a coveted position last night. They have some pieces and I think they're about to go on a similar path to the one we had when we first drafted Josh. 

Bravo!!!

[jrober38]

11 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Bravo!!!

 

I think the same applies to a few teams in the top 16 though. 

 

The Giants are adding key pieces, I mentioned I like what the Dolphins are doing, maybe Washington although I don't believe Haskins is ever going to be the guy, the Panthers look like they'll be tanking for Lawrence or Fields, the Cardinals are making some good moves. 

 

On the other side, the Lions are terrible, the Jags are lost, the Raiders are going nowhere, the Falcons are going nowhere. 

These teams are just biding their time until their at the bottom of the NFL, cleaning house and hitting the reset button.

 

What's the point in waiting?

Edited April 24, 2020 by jrober38

[Bill from NYC]

9 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I think the same applies to a few teams in the top 16 though. 

 

The Giants are adding key pieces, I mentioned I like what the Dolphins are doing, maybe Washington although I don't believe Haskins is ever going to be the guy, the Panthers look like they'll be tanking for Lawrence or Fields, the Cardinals are making some good moves. 

 

On the other side, the Lions are terrible, the Jags are lost, the Raiders are going nowhere, the Falcons are going nowhere. 

These teams are just biding their time until their at the bottom of the NFL, cleaning house and hitting the reset button.

 

What's the point in waiting?

I find it amazing that the same teams seem to just continue their senseless, losing ways.

 

These owners are rich beyond imagination. Are all of them actual billionaires? How they got to be just so wealthy when they can't see their way past these dumb, easy to correct mistakes is beyond me.

[Don Otreply]

15 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I find it amazing that the same teams seem to just continue their senseless, losing ways.

 

These owners are rich beyond imagination. Are all of them actual billionaires? How they got to be just so wealthy when they can't see their way past these dumb, easy to correct mistakes is beyond me.

Most people are smart about a few things, and not so smart about everything else. I knew more than one Pratt and Whitney engineer that were very smart in their fields, but couldn’t change a flat tire on their road bikes to save their lives. It is no different for the billionaires who bought football teams I guess...

Edited April 24, 2020 by Don Otreply

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I find it amazing that the same teams seem to just continue their senseless, losing ways.

 

These owners are rich beyond imagination. Are all of them actual billionaires? How they got to be just so wealthy when they can't see their way past these dumb, easy to correct mistakes is beyond me.

 

Because being rich does not make you smart. 

[Mr. K]

The in-laws were all meh on the pick. I told the wife I wish someone would turn their franchise around. I was hoping to see them move back and get extra picks or players somehow. They need help everywhere but a corner at 3. Come on' Man!

[Coach Tuesday]

I'm thinking there is like a 75% chance the Bills take a DB at 54, either Chinn/Dugger or Hall/Johnson.

[Bill from NYC]

9 minutes ago, Mr. K said:

The in-laws were all meh on the pick. I told the wife I wish someone would turn their franchise around. I was hoping to see them move back and get extra picks or players somehow. They need help everywhere but a corner at 3. Come on' Man!

My GF is a huge Giant Fan and converted Crimson Tide Fan who even watches Bama games with me.

 

When it was the Giants turn to pick, I told her that they should draft Andrew Thomas (and it was fun to look smart ). She wanted Jeudy because she saw him play all season. Thomas is a beast and will protect their rookie QB. They probably could have traded back and drafted Jeudy but at least they went in the right direction. 

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I'm thinking there is like a 75% chance the Bills take a DB at 54, either Chinn/Dugger or Hall/Johnson.

There is probably a 90% chance.

 

[GunnerBill]

I do get Bill's point on this but this is not a class littered with studs. I think there were 3 slam dunk players in this class and they went 1,2 and 3. 

 

I thought the Lions would trade down too but per Schefter a lot of interest never materialised into a firm offer. So then what do you do? They have a need at pass rusher but there was nobody there who was even nearly worth the pick. Take a left tackle? Except they have a left tackle they drafted in the first round in Taylor Decker who has played pretty well. Take Tua? Yea they could have done that I suppose but there is a very good chance that Matt Stafford is a better Quarterback than Tua for at least the next couple of years. 

 

I have sympathy with the argument. I just don't necessarily see the alternative. Now if you want to slam Detroit for a first round pick start with them passing on Ed Oliver and Brian Burns last year to draft a freaking tight end at #8. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by GunnerBill

[BuffaloHokie13]

20 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I'm thinking there is like a 75% chance the Bills take a DB at 54, either Chinn/Dugger or Hall/Johnson.

I put the odds at 50% DB, 30% EDGE, 15% WR, 5% RB.

 

At DB I'm looking at Fulton, Johnson, Diggs, Dantzler, or one of the safeties

 

At Edge I'm looking for one of Gross-Matos, Baun, or Epenesa to fall

 

WR I like Hamler, Pittman, and to a lesser extent Shenault 

 

RB only if Swift, Dobbins, or Taylor falls

 

That's 17 players and doesn't include Josh Jones, Mims, Blacklock, Davidson, Higgins, Madubuike, or Gallimore.

 

So at least 2 of the players listed above will be available at 54.

Edited April 24, 2020 by BuffaloHokie13

[LeviF]

The point about DBs in the top ten is well taken.  Okudah is amazing but not someone that'll take your franchise from 4 wins to 10+.  Maybe they draft a tackle there instead, or go with Tua/Herbert and let Stafford bridge for a couple years.  There were options, though not as many as in some other years.  I was in the camp that thought Detroit should roll the dice with Tua.

 

But the old truism "it takes two to tango" applies to trading back.  Would Miami have moved up?  Who would have been trying to get to 3 or 4 that they'd be competing with if they were completely sold on Tua?  Miami won't be scared of Detroit taking a QB if they're willing to move back, and the Giants have what they think is their guy.  Who else?  The Chargers at 6?  What if they're content with either Tua or Herbert?  Even if the Chargers want to move up, Miami can still sit and preen because they have significantly more draft picks to move and they can best pretty much any offer.

 

I'm sure Detroit did their due diligence.  Once you get past that 6th or 7th pick, you get a king's ransom for 3 but I'm not sure there's any QB-needy team out there that was willing to pay the kind of assets required for Tua/Herbert, who are both have huge question marks and not exactly Manning/Luck type prospects.  And then Miami can just give whatever team might sniff at the 3rd pick the finger by one-upping their offer.

[Coach Tuesday]

As I see it the picks themselves are only half the issue.  Both Detroit and Jacksonville traded away highly skilled CBs in their primes so that they could draft uncertain replacements.  I understand the cap management reasons but neither team needed to do it that way - both could have afforded the CBs they had with some creative roster management.  What they did was tread water (or worse, if the rookies end up being busts, which Henderson at least might).  We as Bills fans have seen plenty of that kind of approach, not just at CB but at RB and other positions as well.

 

I feel like lots of teams have no real plan and decide to change out players at the same position just to look like they have a plan.  But they don't.  Marrone has no idea what he's doing and it amazes me that he still has a job, but I guess he found one of the few completely unaccountable organizations left in the NFL.  It took Coughlin starting fights with everyone to finally get him ejected there.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

As I see it the picks themselves are only half the issue.  Both Detroit and Jacksonville traded away highly skilled CBs in their primes so that they could draft uncertain replacements.  I understand the cap management reasons but neither team needed to do it that way - both could have afforded the CBs they had with some creative roster management.  What they did was tread water (or worse, if the rookies end up being busts, which Henderson at least might).  We as Bills fans have seen plenty of that kind of approach, not just at CB but at RB and other positions as well.

 

I feel like lots of teams have no real plan and decide to change out players at the same position just to look like they have a plan.  But they don't.  Marrone has no idea what he's doing and it amazes me that he still has a job, but I guess he found one of the few completely unaccountable organizations left in the NFL.  It took Coughlin starting fights with everyone to finally get him ejected there.

 

Yes this is certainly true. Indeed drafting Ramsey was an excellent pick as he was the best player on a team that made the AFC title game. Trading him away to spend that pick on Henderson is just flat out bad strategy.

 

Equally with the Lions trading Slay for two mid round picks. The slight distinction I make there is even if they still had Slay I am not sure what the right alternative was for that pick. Other than maybe gamble on Tua and sit him for a year or two. 

[Rico]

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I do get Bill's point on this but this is not a class littered with studs. I think there were 3 slam dunk players in this class and they went 1,2 and 3. 

 

I thought the Lions would trade down too but per Schefter a lot of interest never materialised into a firm offer. So then what do you do? They have a need at pass rusher but there was nobody there who was even nearly worth the pick. Take a left tackle? Except they have a left tackle they drafted in the first round in Taylor Decker who has played pretty well. Take Tua? Yea they could have done that I suppose but there is a very good chance that Matt Stafford is a better Quarterback than Tua for at least the next couple of years. 

 

I have sympathy with the argument. I just don't necessarily see the alternative. Now if you want to slam Detroit for a first round pick start with them passing on Ed Oliver and Brian Burns last year to draft a freaking tight end at #8. 

[Coach Tuesday]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes this is certainly true. Indeed drafting Ramsey was an excellent pick as he was the best player on a team that made the AFC title game. Trading him away to spend that pick on Henderson is just flat out bad strategy.

 

Equally with the Lions trading Slay for two mid round picks. The slight distinction I make there is even if they still had Slay I am not sure what the right alternative was for that pick. Other than maybe gamble on Tua and sit him for a year or two. 

Re the Lions, I don’t know what the exact right strategy was but using a Top 5 pick on replacing a good player with a slightly cheaper player at the same position can’t be it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I am a huge fan of Tua but either way, taking a chance on a qb who might be great does make sense.  The owner will make a TON of money if Tua pans out too so yeah, I can relate to the move but a corner at #3? Yikes!

We don’t know about Tua for sure. But josh has far surpassed what most thought of him on draft day too. It’s a crap shoot, but you gotta take the heat calculated risk you can. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes this is certainly true. Indeed drafting Ramsey was an excellent pick as he was the best player on a team that made the AFC title game. Trading him away to spend that pick on Henderson is just flat out bad strategy.

 

Equally with the Lions trading Slay for two mid round picks. The slight distinction I make there is even if they still had Slay I am not sure what the right alternative was for that pick. Other than maybe gamble on Tua and sit him for a year or two. 

 

I'd have taken that TE all day and twice on sunday.

 

[jrober38]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I find it amazing that the same teams seem to just continue their senseless, losing ways.

 

These owners are rich beyond imagination. Are all of them actual billionaires? How they got to be just so wealthy when they can't see their way past these dumb, easy to correct mistakes is beyond me.

 

I agree. 

 

I've said for about 10 years now that the NFL is so flawed because what constitutes a scouting "expert"? 

 

Reality is this has been, and in most cases continues to be an old boys club and you get jobs based off who you know, and how much people like you. 

 

No one goes to school to learn how to scout players. They might learn stuff along the way from mentors, but the number of blown draft picks, particularly in the top 10 has always been astounding to me. 

 

The Bills were in this trap from 2000 to 2017 when Russ Brandon was running the show. A football idiot, with no experience playing the game or scouting, some how buddied his way into an NFL Franchise, became the owner's pet, and within like 10 years was running the show despite horrendous results on the field year after year. Along the way, the Bills were drafting running backs and corner backs seemingly every year, despite never having a top 20 QB, and the results were top 12 picks essentially every year for 15 years. 

 

This happens all over the NFL. 

 

I think owners get lost in how easy it is to make money in this league, and each year when heads are on the chopping block these con artist GMs tell them to look at the bottom line, which is ultimately all they care about, or can comprehend because ultimately they're all successful business people, and somehow they keep their job for another losing season so that they can blow another first round pick on a player who won't impact their franchise's destiny. 

 

It's crazy. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by jrober38

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Re the Lions, I don’t know what the exact right strategy was but using a Top 5 pick on replacing a good player with a slightly cheaper player at the same position can’t be it.

 

A trade back was the right option but according to Shefy no firm offers. 

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I'd have taken that TE all day and twice on sunday.

 

 

You'd have been as wrong as the Lions. 

[Coach Tuesday]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

A trade back was the right option but according to Shefy no firm offers. 

 

You'd have been as wrong as the Lions. 

I mean, isn’t that why they keep drafting in the top 10?

[Bill from NYC]

I suppose that I would have taken Andrew Thomas. He shows signs of true greatness and could protect your QB and open up the run for many years. I am NOT saying that the corner isn't good, or even great. I don't know. What I do know that a trip on the defensive back merry go-round where you draft them early, lose them, and draft another one is a proven, guaranteed method to lose. I have seen it too many times.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I'm thinking there is like a 75% chance the Bills take a DB at 54, either Chinn/Dugger or Hall/Johnson.

 

I go back to the end of season presser when Beane spoke.  Two things stood out to me: he talked about looking at how you lost the last game of the season and how they weren't 1 player away.  

 

I'm not convinced that the secondary was a problem, nor that their depth is poor.  Drafting a DB just speaks to me as a defensive HC who can't let go of that side of the ball.  A guy who won't acknowledge their offense is now the more important side of the ball.  Because McD isn't gonna be graded on how well his secondary plays or even the defense as a whole.  

 

It's about Allen now and whether he's got enough weapons.  Because if one of the receivers goes down as of right now it's back to the Duke Williams/Foster/McKenzie parade of fringe NFL players.  

 

Then again, it all comes down to how things play out through pick 53.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said:

I suppose that I would have taken Andrew Thomas. He shows signs of true greatness and could protect your QB and open up the run for many years. I am NOT sating that the corner isn't good, or even great. I don't know. What I do know that a trip on the defensive back merry go-round where you draft them early, lose them, and draft another one is a proven, guaranteed method to lose. I have seen it too many times.

 

So I don't see greatness in Thomas. I think he has a very high floor and a low bust % but I am not convinced on his ceiling I think it is lowest of the top 4 tackles. Plus Taylor Decker (who I had the exact same grade on that I had on Thomas) is one of their best players so left tackle was not really a need in Detroit. I'd have more sympathy with the argument you take Jedrick Wills actually and plug him in at right tackle and say we are gonna have bookend tackles. 

 

The Lions haven't drafted defensive backs high a lot. Indeed @BillfromNYC I actually think the Lions are the argument against your general draft strategy. In SEVEN of the last ELEVEN drafts (ie. Since they took Stafford) they have done what you always implore teams to do - blockers and rushers. 7 of 11 first round picks on oline or dline. And they have still been bad. There is no magical positional formula to winning the draft. You have to be good talent evaluators and have a long term strategy. 

 

The 4 exceptions by the way are Okudah (who will be an elite corner), Jarrad  Davis (linebacker) and then Ebron and Hockenson (tight end). 

 

Now I will bash them for the two tight end picks. Tight End is above running back to me as the position you almost never spend a 1st on. 

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I go back to the end of season presser when Beane spoke.  Two things stood out to me: he talked about looking at how you lost the last game of the season and how they weren't 1 player away.  

 

I'm not convinced that the secondary was a problem, nor that their depth is poor.  Drafting a DB just speaks to me as a defensive HC who can't let go of that side of the ball.  A guy who won't acknowledge their offense is now the more important side of the ball.  Because McD isn't gonna be graded on how well his secondary plays or even the defense as a whole.  

 

It's about Allen now and whether he's got enough weapons.  Because if one of the receivers goes down as of right now it's back to the Duke Williams/Foster/McKenzie parade of fringe NFL players.  

 

Then again, it all comes down to how things play out through pick 53.  

 

Allen has more weapons that 80% of the QBs in the league.

 

If a starting WR gets hurt, every team in the league is going down to a replacement level player. 

[BillsVet]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Allen has more weapons that 80% of the QBs in the league.

 

If a starting WR gets hurt, every team in the league is going down to a replacement level player. 

 

Let's not conflate.  The teams winning deep in the playoffs aren't doing it with a surplus of secondary or LB talent.  Sure, they need to rush the passer and defend, but offense is how you advance.

 

I look at the AFC and the elite teams.  KC is at the top of the conference and they feature a stacked offense.  Baltimore scored a lot last season with Lamar and that offense featuring multiple TE's and some solid WR's.

 

Teams that cannot score at this level are left behind and no amount of DB talent is going to change that.  

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Just look at the McBeane Carolina Panthers. 

 

On offense they essentially had Cam Newton and nothing else.

 

They actually always had highly paid running backs. Stewart and Williams before him. They did try with receivers too. They just never had a great record evaluating them. Benjamin and Funchess etc. 

[jrober38]

5 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Let's not conflate.  The teams winning deep in the playoffs aren't doing it with a surplus of secondary or LB talent.  Sure, they need to rush the passer and defend, but offense is how you advance.

 

I look at the AFC and the elite teams.  KC is at the top of the conference and they feature a stacked offense.  Baltimore scored a lot last season with Lamar and that offense featuring multiple TE's and some solid WR's.

 

Teams that cannot score at this level are left behind and no amount of DB talent is going to change that.  

 

This is true for last year if you only look at the Chiefs. 

 

Looking back over the past 10 years, defense, for the most part, wins Championships. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by jrober38

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Let's not conflate.  The teams winning deep in the playoffs aren't doing it with a surplus of secondary or LB talent.  Sure, they need to rush the passer and defend, but offense is how you advance.

 

I look at the AFC and the elite teams.  KC is at the top of the conference and they feature a stacked offense.  Baltimore scored a lot last season with Lamar and that offense featuring multiple TE's and some solid WR's.

 

Teams that cannot score at this level are left behind and no amount of DB talent is going to change that.  

 

Those Baltimore tight ends were not ripping it up with Flacco. They are decent players but nothing special made to look better by their Quarterback. 

 

Baltimore's offense is driven by their Quarterback and their oline not their weapons. 

 

Kansas City have a stable of good weapons I agree but they have an all world QB too.

[BillsVet]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

This is true for last year if you only look at the Chiefs. 

Looking back over the past 10 years, defense, for the most part, wins Championships. 

 

I'm going to keep providing evidence.  Would you argue that the majority of the following teams were offensive driven or better defensively:

 

2019: Kansas City

2018: New England

2017: Philadelphia

2016: New England

2015: Denver

2014: New England

2013: Seattle

2012: Baltimore

2011: NY Giants

2010: Green Bay

 

Out of these teams, perhaps 3 SB winners were strong defensively and that carried them to the title: 2015 Denver, 2013 Seattle, and 2012 Baltimore.  The rest were teams that featured very strong offenses. I'm confident you'll respond and say that QB play is the way forward, but you see in GB an elite QB without much offensive skill talent struggling.  

[mannc]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I was not surprised to see the Jaguars and the Lions draft Top 10 first round DBs. Why not? Because one can make a case that these particular teams are long time second rate organizations. Their drafts are every bit as bad as ours in the "bad old days" or so it would seem.

The Lions were just so bad that they picked at #3. Could one even imagine how many problems they had to pick so early? They have a QB with a monster arm and there were receivers galore. They probably could have traded down and selected Lamb, Ruggs or Jeudy AND acquired extra picks but no; they really had to take that corner at #3. There were very good blockers available, and they could have even taken a QB to eventually replace Stafford. Incredible.

 

The Jags are another team that historically drafts poorly. They have issues galore. Their method of fixing said issues? A DB at #9. While unquestionably stupid, it was not quite on the same level of idiocy displayed by the ever horrible Lions, who would even appear to be tanking for Trevor.

 

I am on record as being skeptical of the trade for Diggs, but it looks wonderful compared to the above decisions.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

The funniest thing about this pick (other than the fact that it pretty much assures that this is Matt Patricia's last season in Detroit), is that there are plenty of scouts and experts who don't even consider Okudah the best CB in the draft.  He's probably not fast enough to cover the faster receivers in the league one-on-one.  For example, he had a difficult time against KJ Hamler from Penn State this year.   There's a good chance he'll be another Denzel Ward.  

[eball]

The Atlanta pick was the worst of the bunch!

[Jauronimo]

At what pick is it acceptable to select a DB? 

[mannc]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Those Baltimore tight ends were not ripping it up with Flacco. They are decent players but nothing special made to look better by their Quarterback. 

 

Baltimore's offense is driven by their Quarterback and their oline not their weapons. 

 

Kansas City have a stable of good weapons I agree but they have an all world QB too.

Look, there really isn't any debate that the Bills did not score enough points last season.  The defense played about as well as you can expect a defense to play in this modern era, and it still wasn't good enough to beat good teams.  Since they aren't about to replace the QB, the only solution is to give that QB better weapons, and one new WR isn't nearly enough.

Edited April 24, 2020 by mannc

[BillsVet]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Those Baltimore tight ends were not ripping it up with Flacco. They are decent players but nothing special made to look better by their Quarterback. 

 

Baltimore's offense is driven by their Quarterback and their oline not their weapons. 

 

Kansas City have a stable of good weapons I agree but they have an all world QB too.

 

Flacco left after the 2018 season.  Mark Andrews was a rookie that year, and Hayden Hurst was a second year player. 

 

Besides, their top 3 TE's were featured more in a rotation than one being a starter.  The sum though has been greater than the parts in that offense. .  

[Bill from NYC]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

. I'd have more sympathy with the argument you take Jedrick Wills actually and plug him in at right tackle and say we are gonna have bookend tackles. 

 

 

I love conversations like this.

Unless I was running to a men's room, I am thinking that I watched every play Of Wills' college career. He is very good and steady but he seemed to lose concentration and have a lot of penalties called on him. It would drive Saban nuts.

He is not what jumps out at me in terms of a top 5 or even 10 OT. Now we are getting into Orlando Pace territory. From what I saw, Thomas appears to be noticeably stronger. I am THE Crimson Tide Fan but agreed with Gettleman's choice. I hope I'm wrong because Wills was a very good player and I appreciate what he did for Bama.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Flacco left after the 2018 season.  Mark Andrews was a rookie that year, and Hayden Hurst was a second year player. 

 

Besides, their top 3 TE's were featured more in a rotation than one being a starter.  The sum though has been greater than the parts in that offense. .  

 

Yes because they have a playmaker at QB, an elite OT and a future hall of famer at guard. The tight ends are nice players. But they aren't elite weapons.

1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said:

I love conversations like this.

Unless I was running to a men's room, I am thinking that I watched every play Of Wills' college career. He is very good and steady but he seemed to lose concentration and have a lot of penalties called on him. It would drive Saban nuts.

He is not what jumps out at me in terms of a top 5 or even 10 OT. Now we are getting into Orlando Pace territory. From what I saw, Thomas appears to be noticeably stronger. I am THE Crimson Tide Fan but agreed with Gettleman's choice. I hope I'm wrong because Wills was a very good player and I appreciate what he did for Bama.

 

That wasn't quite the argument. I would have taken Wirfs myself as the Giants but if not him then Thomas because the Giants needed a left tackle. The Lions do not need a left tackle was my point. They already have a really good one. An argument that someone who was a top end right tackle could go in there is one I have more sympathy with.