Morse big contract, Spain re-signed, Dawkins ready for extension, Feliciano last year?

[WideRightRevenge]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I don’t love PFF, especially their o-line grades, but do you have this year’s grades on hand as a comparison? 
 

And John Miller is one the worst offensive linemen I’ve ever had the displeasure to watch. Like Colin Brown level terrible. 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/03/buffalo-bills-offensive-line-ranking-pro-football-focus-dion-dawkins/

 

In PFF’s final overall offensive line rankings following the 2019 regular season, the Bills clocked in at No. 21.

Here’s how PFF broke down the Bills’ offensive line:

The Bills invested in their offensive line this offseason between free agency and the draft, and we’ve seen improvement from the unit over last season. Those additions along the line, combined with an emphasis on the short passing game and a resulting quicker release from Josh Allen, has lowered the signal-caller’s pressure rate roughly seven percentage points from where it was last season. The Bills’ top pass blocker has been Dion Dawkins with a 76.4 pass-blocking grade.

Overall, Dawkins was the Bills’ best offensive lineman via PFF this season, clocking in at a 73.3 overall mark. That earned him the mark of being their 24 best offensive tackle in the NFL. Aside from Dawkins, no one on Buffalo’s line fell in PFF’s “good” category.

Mitch Morse and John Feliciano, earning grades of 65.9 and 64.1, respectively, were considered “average” by PFF’s grading landscape.

Quinton Spain and Cody Ford landed at 55.8 and 52.4, respectively, very much below average.

The other missing Buffalo lineman is Ty Nsekhe, who landed with a solid grade of 67.3.

[oldmanfan]

Offensive linemen are at a premium across the league.  Especially guys that can run block.  Average ain’t that bad for an O lineman right now, although Beane will if course continually look to upgrade.

[NewEra]

56 minutes ago, WideRightRevenge said:

I think we all need to WOOOSAHHH .. Look at the OL in 2018 ... though not complete .. I loved our 2019 version YOY .... we have a ALL PRO team compared to below.

 

Pro Football Focus (PFF) is aware of the Bills' changes along the offensive line. The analytics site ranked every NFL offensive line and Buffalo's 2018 unit came in at No. 29 on the list.

Here is what PFF had to say about the Bills' offensive line.

PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:

Left Tackle: Dion Dawkins, 74.5 overall grade
Left Guard: Vladimir Ducasse, 75.5
Center: Russell Bodine, 46.8
Right Guard: John Miller, 39.1
Right Tackle: Jordan Mills, 65.7

Lol

49 minutes ago, WideRightRevenge said:

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/03/buffalo-bills-offensive-line-ranking-pro-football-focus-dion-dawkins/

 

In PFF’s final overall offensive line rankings following the 2019 regular season, the Bills clocked in at No. 21.

Here’s how PFF broke down the Bills’ offensive line:

The Bills invested in their offensive line this offseason between free agency and the draft, and we’ve seen improvement from the unit over last season. Those additions along the line, combined with an emphasis on the short passing game and a resulting quicker release from Josh Allen, has lowered the signal-caller’s pressure rate roughly seven percentage points from where it was last season. The Bills’ top pass blocker has been Dion Dawkins with a 76.4 pass-blocking grade.

Overall, Dawkins was the Bills’ best offensive lineman via PFF this season, clocking in at a 73.3 overall mark. That earned him the mark of being their 24 best offensive tackle in the NFL. Aside from Dawkins, no one on Buffalo’s line fell in PFF’s “good” category.

Mitch Morse and John Feliciano, earning grades of 65.9 and 64.1, respectively, were considered “average” by PFF’s grading landscape.

Quinton Spain and Cody Ford landed at 55.8 and 52.4, respectively, very much below average.

The other missing Buffalo lineman is Ty Nsekhe, who landed with a solid grade of 67.3.

PFF is meh but it’s pretty much what I saw last year.  Dawkins is average.  Morse, spain, Feliciano are average.  Nsekhe when playing was average. Ford was bleh for the most part

 

i don’t think Dawkins has earned that kind of cash. He’s a good guy with proper size/athleticism and is a good fit for the city.  I just think we’re shooting ourselves in the foot if we pay him 18 mill a year. It sounds completely outrageous tbh, especially when you consider how many players on our team are better players than him at their respective positions 

[Tipster19]

Is Cordy Glenn worth a look?

[Aussie Joe]

21 minutes ago, Tipster19 said:

Is Cordy Glenn worth a look?

Only if they were to  kick him inside..

 

Lots of kicks...

[MJS]

Or Ford doesn't improve and becomes a backup. Feliciano was excellent last year, in my opinion, and has additional value since he can also play center.

 

But yeah, if we have to let a quality olineman like Feliciano go, that means we have a better option and that bodes well for the team.

[billsfan89]

17 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

They are committed to Morse for next year only and after that they can elect to move on from him...

 

I don’t think Morse is going to provide value for money over the life of his deal..

 

Morse is top 5 at his position in my opinion. He is one of the top 2 to 3 pass protecting centers in the league only giving up 1 sack on 909 snaps last season. He also is solid in run blocking and an excellent leader along the line making calls. 

 

I think as long as he stays healthy he will be here the next 3 to 4 seasons and at worst possibly restructure similar to Star.

[wppete]

We must resign Feliciano. He a leader on this team and a dog! 

[Yav]

Really shows how far the roster has come when the right side of the line and backup players are topics of good conversation. It’s a good time for sure.

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Morse is top 5 at his position in my opinion. He is one of the top 2 to 3 pass protecting centers in the league only giving up 1 sack on 909 snaps last season. He also is solid in run blocking and an excellent leader along the line making calls. 

 

I think as long as he stays healthy he will be here the next 3 to 4 seasons and at worst possibly restructure similar to Star.

 

He definitely didn't play up to that billing last year. He was a good pass blocker and I have no doubt that he plays a significant role in protections but other than when being pulled to get out in space Morse was below average as a run blocker in 2019 and a big reason for our short yardage struggles. 

 

EDIT: Suppose what I am saying is I think he is capable of being a top 5 player but wasn't in 2019.

Edited April 20, 2020 by GunnerBill

[Not at the table Karlos]

On 4/19/2020 at 1:25 AM, GunnerBill said:

I think Spain who was solid in 2019 will be better in 2020. His best years in 16 and 17 in Tennessee he was an absolute beast. 

 

On Feliciano..... I kind of think his best position is center. The two games when Morse went out hurt and Feliciano slid across the Bills' running game received a boost. He isn't as refined as Morse and doesn't offer as much help in setting protections but when the Bills just want to pound the ball for a series I'd almost be tempted to take Morse out. The issue is the Bills are committed to Morse and that does mean unless Feliciano can be extended very cheaply he probably gets away. 

Was watching some all-22 the other day and noticed this. Went back and watched Morse a bit. He’s not very aggressive when blocking. Seems to wait for defender to come to him vs attacking and getting the guy out of the play.
 

A lot of runs could have went for big gains if our blockers simply kept going to defender instead of waiting for defender to come to them. Morse and Knox were two that I saw do it a lot.

[Shaw66]

From what I've read and heard, offensive line play is more about teamwork and execution (limiting mistakes) and less about talent.  So I tend to think the way to evaluate the offensive linemen is on a pass-fail basis rather than giving them a grade.  That is, five guys with a passing grade who really work together are better than an A, a couple BS and a couple Cs who aren't on the same page. 

 

In 2019 the Bills got to five guys with passing grades, with right tackle being borderline.  This season they should be considerably better, because they will have a true unit that works together and because Ford should be more solid at tackle. 

 

Having said that, it helps a lot if you have one or two stars on the line, and that's where the Bills still are lacking.  Maybe Dawkins, maybe Morse, maybe Ford, but none of them is there yet.  Ford may be the only guy on the line with the physical potential to be a star; Morse's leadership may make him a star even if he isn't the most physically dominant in the league.    

 

So I think there's more work to be done on the line, and I think the help could be at any of the positions.  I know the Bills have other needs, but I wouldn't be unhappy if the Bills took an offensive lineman in the second round. 

[MrEpsYtown]

19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

From what I've read and heard, offensive line play is more about teamwork and execution (limiting mistakes) and less about talent.  So I tend to think the way to evaluate the offensive linemen is on a pass-fail basis rather than giving them a grade.  That is, five guys with a passing grade who really work together are better than an A, a couple BS and a couple Cs who aren't on the same page. 

 

 

I think this is mostly true, except for pass protection. Morse is probably the best pass protector of the bunch. The rest of these guys sometimes look awful if the get stuck in one on one situations in pass pro. That's where arm length and talent and things of that nature come to the forefront. Morse is great at that. He is not good at sticking his face in there and smashing guys in the run game. He is very strong, but he's not that kind of run blocker. I guess my point is that there are a bunch of different style of linemen on this team, and that could be good, but some of their skills are lacking in different areas. I am interested to see how the gel even more in year two.  

[Shaw66]

44 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I think this is mostly true, except for pass protection. Morse is probably the best pass protector of the bunch. The rest of these guys sometimes look awful if the get stuck in one on one situations in pass pro. That's where arm length and talent and things of that nature come to the forefront. Morse is great at that. He is not good at sticking his face in there and smashing guys in the run game. He is very strong, but he's not that kind of run blocker. I guess my point is that there are a bunch of different style of linemen on this team, and that could be good, but some of their skills are lacking in different areas. I am interested to see how the gel even more in year two.  

That sounds right. 

 

My point was that if you already have a passing grade on your unit, and I think the Bill's do, then you're looking to upgrade talent at any position, not just what you'd consider your weakest link.  

 

What you're saying is that Morse may be the first stud on the line and likely not to be replaced.  If that's correct, and it makes sense to me, the Bills still could make use of an upgrade at any of four positions on the line.

[Don Otreply]

The O line guys main talent is in their ability to work together, as Shaw66 stated above,  so their talent is that type of skill set. It’s just a different talent than say a D lineman, or WR. 
 

Go Bills!!!  

[Shaw66]

18 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

The O line guys main talent is in their ability to work together, as Shaw66 stated above,  so their talent is that type of skill set. It’s just a different talent than say a D lineman, or WR. 
 

Go Bills!!!  

Talent still matters. Some olineman are better than others, to be sure. I just think that once you have the basics, it doesn't matter so much which position on the line gets an upgrade.

[billsfan89]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He definitely didn't play up to that billing last year. He was a good pass blocker and I have no doubt that he plays a significant role in protections but other than when being pulled to get out in space Morse was below average as a run blocker in 2019 and a big reason for our short yardage struggles. 

 

EDIT: Suppose what I am saying is I think he is capable of being a top 5 player but wasn't in 2019.

 

Mitch gave up 1 sack on 909 snaps and his pressure numbers last season were really good too. I think he is an elite pass blocker top 3 at his position the numbers and the eye test check out. 

 

I do think his run blocking is nothing special but far from a liability. I think center play is made up of a lot of very complex parts and in many of those avenues Mitch ranges from elite to solid. 

 

I don't know if I could name 5 centers who are better. 

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Was watching some all-22 the other day and noticed this. Went back and watched Morse a bit. He’s not very aggressive when blocking. Seems to wait for defender to come to him vs attacking and getting the guy out of the play.
 

A lot of runs could have went for big gains if our blockers simply kept going to defender instead of waiting for defender to come to them. Morse and Knox were two that I saw do it a lot.

 

I wonder if his concussion earlier in the year affected his aggressiveness?

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Mitch gave up 1 sack on 909 snaps and his pressure numbers last season were really good too. I think he is an elite pass blocker top 3 at his position the numbers and the eye test check out. 

 

I do think his run blocking is nothing special but far from a liability. I think center play is made up of a lot of very complex parts and in many of those avenues Mitch ranges from elite to solid. 

 

I don't know if I could name 5 centers who are better. 

He also gets downfield well in the run game. 

I guess it's his straight on power blocking in the run game that people think is subpar 

[billsfan89]

26 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

He also gets downfield well in the run game. 

I guess it's his straight on power blocking in the run game that people think is subpar 

 

He doesn't get the best push against more stout D-linemen but he is decent enough as a straight on run blocker. I think Mitch if healthy is such a huge positive for the Oline. Elite pass blocking, good signal caller, pulls and gets to the next level at a high level and is a decent head on run blocker. 

 

He definitely is a top 5 center. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Mitch gave up 1 sack on 909 snaps and his pressure numbers last season were really good too. I think he is an elite pass blocker top 3 at his position the numbers and the eye test check out. 

 

I do think his run blocking is nothing special but far from a liability. I think center play is made up of a lot of very complex parts and in many of those avenues Mitch ranges from elite to solid. 

 

I don't know if I could name 5 centers who are better. 

 

I could name 5 who played better in 2019. That is the point. 

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Talent still matters. Some olineman are better than others, to be sure. I just think that once you have the basics, it doesn't matter so much which position on the line gets an upgrade.

Seems contrary to how the D line is viewed. I would think Jason Peters at the same age as Dion would make for a noticeably better left side at least, doing the same upgrade at RT would make an equally big impact, both would dramatically impact a QBs career, and longevity. Hypothetically anyway. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Seems contrary to how the D line is viewed. I would think Jason Peters at the same age as Dion would make for a noticeably better left side at least, doing the same upgrade at RT would make an equally big impact, both would dramatically impact a QBs career, and longevity. Hypothetically anyway. 
 

Go Bills!!!

Oh, for sure.  It's what I was saying.  It's not that talent doesn't matter; it's just that the sum is greater than the parts on the oline much more than the D line, for example.  

 

My point was that it sort of matters less which position you get a stud non the oline.  Give me a young Peters or a young stud guard, doesn't matter.  Add him to the line and integrate him.  

 

The least talented guy on a good o line isn't as big a problem as the least talented guy on your Dline.