Update: Dak may be franchised (offered $33M) and Cooper transition tagged = at min $43M cap hit

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Again...the guy had arguably the best RB and Oline in the league making his.job easy.

 

When did I say let him walk? They have options. They can franchise him and trade him to a team that believes he's the guy like some of you do. I know Dallas fans that don't think he's worth it and would gladly move on if someone else wants to pay him what he wants and compensate them.

 

And lastly...it seems your overall point is just pay the guy cause he's a decent player. As if Bills fans or any team let alone Dallas will be content with being a 500 team that can't beat the better teams in the league while being paid as a premier player.

 

You would have probably wanted to roll with Tyrod and pay him 30 mil too.

 

Loser mentality to the max

Okay, so when has a team franchised a QB and traded him to another team and gotten BETTER for it? 

 

WTF are you talking about .500.  Dak is 40-24 as a starter, is that .500?  The Tyrod comparison is laughable, HE was a .500 QB. Tyrod threw 14 TD his last season as a starter, Dak threw over twice that last season. 

 

You have embarrassed yourself. The Cowboys made the playoffs twice, and won in the playoffs in 4 seasons and you call it QB purgatory. The Bills went 17 years without a playoff APPEARANCE. THAT'S QB purgatory.

 

The Redskins let Kirk Cousins go rather than pay him.  Lots of folks thought he was overrated. But the Vikings have made the playoffs, won a playoff game, and gone 18-12-1 with Kirk.  The Redskins have gone 10-22 since letting Cousins leave.  Thank god they aren't paying a QB though, right??

 

It's like talking to people who haven't watched the NFL at all.  Jesus.

Edited March 9, 2020 by BringBackOrton

[Billl]

I guess 26 year old QBs who put up 5200 yards and 33 TDs are easily replaceable.  Dude has made $4.7 million in 4 seasons.  Nobody was crying about him being underpaid, but suddenly he wants what the market will pay, and he’s excoriated by fans.  
 

Guess what?  Dak doesn’t need financial advice from a bunch of middle aged dudes on the internet.  He’s going to get as much as Jerry Jones will pay him just as he should.  You best believe Jerry will squeeze fans for every nickel they will pay, so there’s really no sense in clutching your pearls on his account.  
 

Of course fans will cry about how much better it would be if he would take a little less money so that they could build a championship roster around him, because that’s what fans always do.  Meanwhile, they ignore the fact that the Cowboys couldn’t build a championship roster when Dak was making $500,000 a year.  The difference between $33,000,000 and $35,000,000 isn’t going to make or break the team.  If it does, they can trot Cooper Rush out there and see how that works out.  The reality is that the Cowboys need Dak more than he needs them.  There are a dozen teams who would pay Dak $30,000,000+ to play for them.

[CommonCents]

5 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Okay, so when has a team franchised a QB and traded him to another team and gotten BETTER for it? 

 

WTF are you talking about .500.  Dak is 40-24 as a starter, is that .500?  The Tyrod comparison is laughable, HE was a .500 QB. Tyrod threw 14 TD his last season as a starter, Dak threw over twice that last season. 

 

You have embarrassed yourself. The Cowboys made the playoffs twice, and won in the playoffs in 4 seasons and you call it QB purgatory. The Bills went 17 years without a playoff APPEARANCE. THAT'S QB purgatory.

 

The Redskins let Kirk Cousins go rather than pay him.  Lots of folks thought he was overrated. But the Vikings have made the playoffs, won a playoff game, and gone 18-12-1 with Kirk.  The Redskins have gone 10-22 since letting Cousins leave.  Thank god they aren't paying a QB though, right??

 

It's like talking to people who haven't watched the NFL at all.  Jesus.

Tell me about it. People spouting off nonsense just to argue.

 

Kirk Cousins 18-12-1, Case Keenum 13-3. 

 

Next. 

[BeastMaster]

Just now, Billl said:

I guess 26 year old QBs who put up 5200 yards and 33 TDs are easily replaceable.  Dude has made $4.7 million in 4 seasons.  Nobody was crying about him being underpaid, but suddenly he wants what the market will pay, and he’s excoriated by fans.  
 

Guess what?  Dak doesn’t need financial advice from a bunch of middle aged dudes on the internet.  He’s going to get as much as Jerry Jones will pay him just as he should.  You best believe Jerry will squeeze fans for every nickel they will pay, so there’s really no sense in clutching your pearls on his account.  
 

Of course fans will cry about how much better it would be if he would take a little less money so that they could build a championship roster around him, because that’s what fans always do.  Meanwhile, they ignore the fact that the Cowboys couldn’t build a championship roster when Dak was making $500,000 a year.  The difference between $33,000,000 and $35,000,000 isn’t going to make or break the team.  If it does, they can trot Cooper Rush out there and see how that works out.  The reality is that the Cowboys need Dak more than he needs them.  There are a dozen teams who would pay Dak $30,000,000+ to play for them.

They need him? For what exactly? 

 

Garbage time stats, only shows up against bad teams, and can only get his team to around 500 despite being surrounded by talent.

 

Yup...that's the guy I wanna pay top dollar to lead my team

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Tell me about it. People spouting off nonsense just to argue.

 

Kirk Cousins 18-12-1, Case Keenum 13-3. 

 

Next. 

Uh what?

 

Case Keenum didn't even start 16 games with the Vikings. He went 11-3 as a starter, and then went 6-10 with Denver the following year. Oh, and then he went 1-7 with the Skins.

 

Thanks for playing.

Edited March 9, 2020 by BringBackOrton

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Again...the guy had arguably the best RB and Oline in the league making his.job easy.

 

When did I say let him walk? They have options. They can franchise him and trade him to a team that believes he's the guy like some of you do. I know Dallas fans that don't think he's worth it and would gladly move on if someone else wants to pay him what he wants and compensate them.

 

And lastly...it seems your overall point is just pay the guy cause he's a decent player. As if Bills fans or any team let alone Dallas will be content with being a 500 team that can't beat the better teams in the league while being paid as a premier player.

 

You would have probably wanted to roll with Tyrod and pay him 30 mil too.

 

Loser mentality to the max

 

Dak is a million times better than Tyrod and that is only a minor exaggeration.

[BeastMaster]

And to be clear...I hope Dallas does pull the trigger and pays him. I can see it from Daks perspective, and he has a case.

 

I just don't think it's a move that will get Dallas to where they wanna go. Matter of fact, I think it will make it much more difficult for them to build a roster that he clearly needs to contend.

[CommonCents]

6 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Uh what?

 

Case Keenum didn't even start 16 games with the Vikings. He went 11-3 as a starter, and then went 6-10 with Denver the following year.

 

For those keeping score at home, that's a total of 17-13.  Thanks for playing.

His record with Denver. Ahh man. He got the Vikings a first round bye if I remember correctly. Without Dalvin Cook. 

 

Kirk Cousins with the same cast has been much more mediocre if anything. 

 

Keenum sucking in Denver goes to show how strong that Minni cast is. How would Dak be in Denver? Probably not too far off from Keenum. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by CommonCents

[BeastMaster]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Dak is a million times better than Tyrod and that is only a minor exaggeration.

Better, but his point was the Bills sucked because they never had a Dak Prescott during their streak of ineptitude. They had a guy who didn't lose the game in Tyrod but certainly didn't win it for them or beat good teams. In that way, they are similar...hence my reply to him.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, CommonCents said:

His record with Denver. Ahh man. He got the Vikings a first round bye if I remnant correctly. Without Dalvin Cook. 

 

Kirk Cousins with the same cast has been much more mediocre if anything. 

 

Keenum sucking in Denver goes to show his strong that Minni cast is. How would Dak be in Denver? Probably not too far off from Keenum. 

Keenum had a good year in Minny, and Cousins has been less than ideal there. You won't hear me argue otherwise. But Kirk's numbers have been better almost across the board than Keenum's and he proved to be a one-hit wonder.

 

The point was moreso how the Redskins have cratered since letting Cousins walk.  Many argued paying Cousins would have been a mistake at the time.  They made some good points to that affect.  But is there any doubt they would have rather been Minnesota the last two seasons? Or Dallas?

[Billl]

I can’t wait to see this place when Josh puts up 26 TDs, 12 INTs, and 3,700 yards next season.  There’s going to be a civil war at TBD over his extension.  

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Better, but his point was the Bills sucked because they never had a Dak Prescott during their streak of ineptitude. They had a guy who didn't lose the game in Tyrod but certainly didn't win it for them or beat good teams. In that way, they are similar...hence my reply to him.

Dak Prescott beat Seattle in the playoffs last year.

 

???

[BeastMaster]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Keenum had a good year in Minny, and Cousins has been less than ideal there. You won't hear me argue otherwise. But Kirk's numbers have been better almost across the board than Keenum's and he proved to be a one-hit wonder.

 

The point was moreso how the Redskins have cratered since letting Cousins walk.  Many argued paying Cousins would have been a mistake at the time.  They made some good points to that affect.  But is there any doubt they would have rather been Minnesota the last two seasons? Or Dallas?

But the point is you should crater instead of toil in mediocrity. 

 

You seem to be content with competent QB play with little success.

 

I'd rather tear it down and try again before investing in something that won't deliver a good return

Edited March 9, 2020 by BeastMaster

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, BeastMaster said:

But the point is you should crate instead of toil in mediocrity. 

 

You seem to be content with competent QB play with little success.

 

I'd rather tear it down and try again before investing in something that won't deliver a good return

Minnesota over the course of the 3 years of Kirk Cousins' deal has an infinitely better chance of winning a Superbowl than the Redskins have had since letting him walk.  That's a fact. Teams that start 1-7 do not win Super Bowls.

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Keenum had a good year in Minny, and Cousins has been less than ideal there. You won't hear me argue otherwise. But Kirk's numbers have been better almost across the board than Keenum's and he proved to be a one-hit wonder.

 

The point was moreso how the Redskins have cratered since letting Cousins walk.  Many argued paying Cousins would have been a mistake at the time.  They made some good points to that affect.  But is there any doubt they would have rather been Minnesota the last two seasons? Or Dallas?

The Redskins are the Browns of the NFC. Second guessing them is easy money. I don’t think Cousins is good nor do I think Dak is. 

 

It’s a tough decision either way, pay him and hope he improves or trust your front office to continue to build the team and find a serviceable replacement.

 

Playing QB is easier now than I ever remember. I’d trust my roster and hope to find an adequate replacement. 

[BeastMaster]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Dak Prescott beat Seattle in the playoffs last year.

 

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Minnesota over the course of the 3 years of Kirk Cousins' deal has an infinitely better chance of winning a Superbowl than the Redskins have had since letting him walk.  That's a fact. Teams that start 1-7 do not win Super Bowls.

 

Minnesota was a quality team before Cousins.

Teddy Bridgewater ring a bell?

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Better, but his point was the Bills sucked because they never had a Dak Prescott during their streak of ineptitude. They had a guy who didn't lose the game in Tyrod but certainly didn't win it for them or beat good teams. In that way, they are similar...hence my reply to him.

 

Dak has beaten good teams and won them games. They didn't beat many good teams this year but that wasn't on Dak. 

[BeastMaster]

It's cool...you can die on the Dak Prescott hill if you'd like. My team isn't gonna pay him so I'm good with it.

 

It almost seems like you guys would love Dak on the Bills more than the guy we have now.

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Dak has beaten good teams and won them games. They didn't beat many good teams this year but that wasn't on Dak. 

It wasn't on Dak?

 

Since when is the QB obsolved from the teams performance?

 

He was awful against nearly every good team. That surely was on him.

 

 

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by BeastMaster

[Billl]

5 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

The Redskins are the Browns of the NFC. Second guessing them is easy money. I don’t think Cousins is good nor do I think Dak is. 

 

It’s a tough decision either way, pay him and hope he improves or trust your front office to continue to build the team and find a serviceable replacement.

 

Playing QB is easier now than I ever remember. I’d trust my roster and hope to find an adequate replacement. 

What do you think of Josh Allen?

[BeastMaster]

Just now, Billl said:

What do you think of Josh Allen?

When it comes time to decide on paying him or not, we can have the same discussion.

 

Right now he's still progressing

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

 

 

He was awful against nearly every good team. That surely was on him.

 

No he wasn't. 

[Billl]

4 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

It's cool...you can die on the Dak Prescott hill if you'd like. My team isn't gonna pay him so I'm good with it.

 

It almost seems like you guys would love Dak on the Bills more than the guy we have now.It wasn't on Dak?

 

Every Bills fan should hope that Allen turns out as good as Prescott or Cousins.

[BeastMaster]

Just now, Billl said:

Every Bills fan should hope that Allen turns out as good as Prescott or Cousins.

I would be disappointed.

 

I want my QB to elevate my teams play and deliver against the best.

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

What do you think of Josh Allen?

I love Josh Allen but I’m not making him the highest paid player either. As much as I love him, if he keeps throwing deepballs like he is throwing high school javalin then I’d have a hard time paying him the big bucks.

 

He needs to continue to grow. If he isn’t improved before his payday it would also be a nightmare of a call. He seems to love being in Buffalo I hope he becomes great. 

[Billl]

1 minute ago, BeastMaster said:

When it comes time to decide on paying him or not, we can have the same discussion.

 

Right now he's still progressing

What will you think if he throws for 10 more TDs, 1,800 more yards, and completes 65% of his passes next season?

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

But the point is you should crater instead of toil in mediocrity. 

 

You seem to be content with competent QB play with little success.

 

I'd rather tear it down and try again before investing in something that won't deliver a good return

 

5 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Teddy Bridgewater ring a bell?

You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth  now. Teams should crater, but they should also not settle for mediocrity. Cousins has been superior to both Teddy and Keemum, so didn’t they not settle for mediocrity by acquiring him? You called them a quality team, and with mediocre QBs they had some good seasons. Could a team as talented as they are lose 13 games and be in the top 2 to get a highly rated QB prospect? If Dallas lets Dak walk and goes 4-12 are they really that talented or was Dak better than you thought?

 

So many contradictions.

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

Every Bills fan should hope that Allen turns out as good as Prescott or Cousins.

That’s wrong. He needs to be better than them both, that’s what we should hope for. Folks had this conversation shortly after he was drafted. The name it circled around was Stafford because of his contract. I said then that you need to be better than Stafford if you want the megabucks. 

[BeastMaster]

6 minutes ago, Billl said:

What will you think if he throws for 10 more TDs, 1,800 more yards, and completes 65% of his passes next season?

There are other factors as I've stated with Dak.

 

If we were a 500 team where he failed to deliver against winning teams and put up lots of garbage time numbers, I'd be wary of paying him.

 

And Allen also doesn't have the benefit of a loaded offensive roster, so that would also need to be taken into account.

[Billl]

10 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

That’s wrong. He needs to be better than them both, that’s what we should hope for. Folks had this conversation shortly after he was drafted. The name it circled around was Stafford because of his contract. I said then that you need to be better than Stafford if you want the megabucks. 

I’ll preface this statement with the fact that I’m a Chiefs fan who placed a very large bet on the Bills to win more than 7 games this season (great job) and a smaller but still sizable wager on them to win the division outright (not as great).  That’s why I started posting here in the first place.  Somehow I seem to have been mistakenly pegged as a Ravens fan, but that’s neither here nor there.  
 

If Josh becomes anything close to Kirk or Dak, the Bills are going to win the division at least three times in the next five years.

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

I’ll preface this statement with the fact that I’m a Chiefs fan who placed a very large bet on the Bills to win more than 7 games this season (great job) and a smaller but still sizable wager on them to win the division outright (not as great).  That’s why I started posting here in the first place.  Somehow I seem to have been mistakenly pegged as a Ravens fan, but that’s neither here nor there.  
 

If Josh becomes anything close to Kirk or Dak, the Bills are going to win the division at least three times in the next five years.

And if his ceiling is Dak/Cousins they will be fodder for Mahomes and the Chiefs. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

13 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Okay, so when has a team franchised a QB and traded him to another team and gotten BETTER for it? 

 

WTF are you talking about .500.  Dak is 40-24 as a starter, is that .500?  The Tyrod comparison is laughable, HE was a .500 QB. Tyrod threw 14 TD his last season as a starter, Dak threw over twice that last season. 

 

You have embarrassed yourself. The Cowboys made the playoffs twice, and won in the playoffs in 4 seasons and you call it QB purgatory. The Bills went 17 years without a playoff APPEARANCE. THAT'S QB purgatory.

 

The Redskins let Kirk Cousins go rather than pay him.  Lots of folks thought he was overrated. But the Vikings have made the playoffs, won a playoff game, and gone 18-12-1 with Kirk.  The Redskins have gone 10-22 since letting Cousins leave.  Thank god they aren't paying a QB though, right??

 

It's like talking to people who haven't watched the NFL at all.  Jesus.

Well to be fair Cousins is very overrated in a lot

of ways and is definitely not worth what the Vikings are paying him. Remember there was talk about the Vikings getting rid of him last year due to him being a disappointment in many’s Vikings fans eyes last year. Cousins to me is a stat guy and nothing more. Sure he’ll put up the nice stats and win during the regular season but when it’s playoff time he changes and becomes inconsistent

Edited March 9, 2020 by BuffaloBills1998

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Well to be fair Cousins is very overrated in a lot

of ways and is definitely not worth what the Vikings are paying him. Remember there was talk about the Vikings getting rid of him last year due to him being a disappointment in many’s Vikings fans eyes last year. Cousins to me is a star guy and nothing more. Sure he’ll put up the nice stats and win during the regular season but when it’s playoff time he changes and becomes inconsistent

And yet the Redskins have only been able to win 10 games since letting him walk.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

I can’t wait to see this place when Josh puts up 26 TDs, 12 INTs, and 3,700 yards next season.  There’s going to be a civil war at TBD over his extension.  

Good problem to have.

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

Let it not be forgotten that Carr was also handsomely paid once upon a time. Its how the market works sometimes. The evil you know is better than the one you dont, and even marginal QBs seem attractive to franchises because it's better than not having one at all...

This is too true- I hope our issue is trying to convince Josh to take a hometown discount not if he is worth 30+ million.

28 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

And yet the Redskins have only been able to win 10 games since letting him walk.

True but they lost the big money QB they signed to a horrific injury so the plan is not as envisioned either.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Ooooh somebody isn't going to be able to afford Leighton Vander Esch!... Trade for him immediately!!!!

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 hours ago, Augie said:

Something is broken here. It seems like the next deal always has to set a new bar and be the highest deal. The better players deserve the bigger deals, it’s not just because it’s the most recent. I know the market moves, but......this has gotten CRAZY. 

You are misinterpreting the market. It only takes one of 32 teams that is desperate for a scarce resource (a franchise QB) to set the market - especially a market where at any time 1/8th -1/4th of the teams are bidding for the resource.  And it only takes one GM to decide Dak is a franchise QB.  

[Doc Brown]

I'd at least demand more than Goff (33.5 million per year, 110 million guaranteed).  This deal pry gets done quickly if the Cowboys budge a little.  Maybe put on some bonuses like the Eagles did with Wentz.

[Mickey]

13 hours ago, White Linen said:

This is what's wrong with the NFL.  Paying the highest salary because they're "next" but they're not the best at their position.  

 

I'm not sure it is "wrong" but if it is, all owners have to do is to not make the offer. No one is being forced to sign these contracts. 

The QB and his agents are simply getting what the market will bear.

And really, does the "Jerry Jones is an idiot" theory really need further proof? It is an established theorem at this point. 

[DCOrange]

Will be interesting to see what Dallas does. Offering him less than Jared Goff just got isn't going to get it done but of course they always have the franchise tag at their disposal if need be. His price will only go up unless he takes a significant step back next season.

[H2o]

This situation could play out like Kirk Cousins in Washington. Kirk killed them with that FT money in DC and wound up fleecing the Vikings for $84,000,000 worth of a fully guaranteed contract. He'll have made around $125,000,000 in 5 years between the Franchise Tags in DC and his Minny $$$. Dak could do the same to Dallas until they cave to his demands or they let him walk in FA. He holds ALL of the leverage right now imo.