Covid-19 discussion and humor thread [Was: CDC says don't touch your face to avoid Covid19...Vets to the rescue!

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

The concept of 'bulk foods' department in this changed environment had me wondering the future of such operations.  Before entering the local 'Bulk Barn' yesterday, I stopped to read a number of notices and prequalifiers on the doors.  Once satisfied I qualified, a clerk met me at the entrance, garbed in full PPE.  He was the one to select any 'scoopable / baggable' items.  If there were prewrapped items, my disposable gloved hands were free to select these.  The clerk / escort was required to attend with me at all times.  Quite honestly, I thought 'bulk foods' was a dead concept, and in a grocery store setting self serve, it probably is.  This well thought out work by Bulk Barn's operators allows the concept to continue, at least for now.

*
I have worked with individuals over the years whose personal hygiene caused all of us to keep our distance, at least now I know they're not digging through the barrel of corn chips.  ?

[BillsFan4]

13 hours ago, K-9 said:

Being prepared for a worst case scenario is a hard fail? After the overrun health care systems we saw in Europe and China earlier on? 

 

 

 

Quote

“As part of our hospital surge, we expanded capacity at a breakneck speed, ensuring our hospital infrastructure would be prepared to handle the very worst. We did so only with a single-minded focus: saving lives,” city spokesperson Avery Cohen told The New York Post. "Over the past few months, social distancing, face coverings, and other precautionary measures have flattened the curve drastically, and we remain squarely focused on taking that progress even further.”

 

What jerks. Spending money to potentially save a bunch of lives and avoid what happened in Italy. They should have just stayed unprepared and ignored the virus as the hospitals in NYC were quickly filling to a dangerous capacity at the time.

That’s what a real leader does, right? 

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

 

 

What jerks. Spending money to potentially save a bunch of lives and avoid what happened in Italy. They should have just stayed unprepared and ignored the virus as the hospitals in NYC were quickly filling to a dangerous capacity at the time.

That’s what a real leader does, right? 

The Monday morning quarterbacking on this pandemic will be unbearable. Baseless, useless, and perhaps even dangerous. 

[The Dean]

40 minutes ago, K-9 said:

The Monday morning quarterbacking on this pandemic will be unbearable. Baseless, useless, and perhaps even dangerous. 

 

 

Remember that the next time McDermott makes a questionable time management move and the Bills end up losing the game.  

Edited May 26, 2020 by The Dean

[BillsFan4]

30 minutes ago, K-9 said:

The Monday morning quarterbacking on this pandemic will be unbearable. Baseless, useless, and perhaps even dangerous. 

 

We haven’t even truly made it through the first wave yet, let alone any potential 2nd wave in the fall (which I pray doesn’t happen). I think it’s a bit too soon to be declaring victory and saying it was wasted money. They’re leaving the field hospital up in case it’s needed.

 

Even if it’s never needed (hopefully that’s the case) I would still rather be prepared than lose a bunch of lives that didn’t have to be lost. The NY Governor was responding based off the projections provided by the CDC & federal coronavirus task force, as well as what was happening in NY at the time.

 

NYC hospitals were being hit hard when this was built. We were 6 days away from running out of ventilators at one point. At harder hit hospitals in NYC, hallways were filled up with patients waiting on rooms (for days at times). Thousands of doctors, nurses + first responders came out of retirement and from out of state to help with the surge. I have a doctor friend who lives/works in NYC and saw it up close.

 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/war-nyc-doctors-describe-fight-against-coronavirus-cases-surge-n1169521

'This is a war': NYC doctors describe fight against coronavirus as cases surge’

“Our hospital has never, ever, ever seen anything like this,” one doctor said.

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

 

 

What jerks. Spending money to potentially save a bunch of lives and avoid what happened in Italy. They should have just stayed unprepared and ignored the virus as the hospitals in NYC were quickly filling to a dangerous capacity at the time.

That’s what a real leader does, right? 

 

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

The Monday morning quarterbacking on this pandemic will be unbearable. Baseless, useless, and perhaps even dangerous. 

 

There should definitely be an accurate assessment of events. I know that's hard to do. 

 

We were unprepared for a threat we knew was out there since the early 2000s. Instead of spending a reasonable amount of money over time to prepare, we spent much more in a short time to react. $21 mil for a tennis court hospital that didn't get used? Not saying it didn't need to be done, just that it was the result of a total failure, which definitely needs to be assessed in order to prevent future failures.

[bdutton]

[JDHillFan]

16 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Wisconsin reports record number of new coronavirus cases, deaths

https://www.yahoo.com/news/wisconsin-reports-record-number-coronavirus-160959549.html

 

 

I hope nobody is treated by that nurse from here.

 

[BillsFan4]

https://theconversation.com/masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-the-science-is-simple-and-im-one-of-100-experts-urging-governors-to-require-public-mask-wearing-138507

Masks help stop the spread of coronavirus – the science is simple and I’m one of 100 experts urging governors to require public mask-wearing

 

Quote

So what is this evidence that has led myself and so many scientists to believe so strongly in masks?

 

The evidence: (continued in link)

 

They give a very strong argument for wearing a mask. Definitely worth reading if you’re one of the people opposed to wearing a mask.

 

Quote

There are numerous studies that suggest if 80% of people wear a mask in public, then COVID-19 transmission could be halted. Until a vaccine or a cure for COVID-19 is discovered, cloth face masks might be the most important tool we currently have to fight the pandemic.

 

Given all of the laboratory and epidemiological evidence, the low cost of wearing masks – which can be made at home with no tools – and the potential to slow COVID-19 transmission with widescale use, policymakers should ensure that everyone wears a mask in public.

 

I truly don’t get the opposition to mask wearing. It’s about all we have right now. If it can allow us to open up and get back to a semi-normal life, why in the world Wouldn’t you wear one? 

Edited May 29, 2020 by BillsFan4

[BillsFan4]

A view on the US coronavirus response from the BBC:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52775216

 

 

[JaCrispy]

Anyone heard any info (or have any thoughts) on what action will be taken by the NFL the first time a player tests positive for covid?

[spartacus]

3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://theconversation.com/masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-the-science-is-simple-and-im-one-of-100-experts-urging-governors-to-require-public-mask-wearing-138507

Masks help stop the spread of coronavirus – the science is simple and I’m one of 100 experts urging governors to require public mask-wearing

 

 

They give a very strong argument for wearing a mask. Definitely worth reading if you’re one of the people opposed to wearing a mask.

 

 

I truly don’t get the opposition to mask wearing. It’s about all we have right now. If it can allow us to open up and get back to a semi-normal life, why in the world Wouldn’t you wear one? 

 

The following premise from the article renders the entire analysis meaningless:

"The light-scattering experiment cannot see “micro-droplets” that are smaller than 5 microns and could contain some viral particles. But experts don’t think that these are responsible for much COVID-19 transmission."

 

Covid molecules are .06 to .14 microns. How can you run a test that cannot see the very virus particle you are trying to track. Such "experts" concluding that the virus particle itself is not responsible for transmission is a pretty questionable conclusion.

 

but if it does not fit the mask wearing narrative, then it can't be true

 

[BillsFan4]

29 minutes ago, spartacus said:

 

The following premise from the article renders the entire analysis meaningless:

"The light-scattering experiment cannot see “micro-droplets” that are smaller than 5 microns and could contain some viral particles. But experts don’t think that these are responsible for much COVID-19 transmission."

 

Covid molecules are .06 to .14 microns. How can you run a test that cannot see the very virus particle you are trying to track. Such "experts" concluding that the virus particle itself is not responsible for transmission is a pretty questionable conclusion.

 

but if it does not fit the mask wearing narrative, then it can't be true

 

 

Paragraph right after the one you quoted:

 

Quote

While just how much of a role these small particles play in transmission remains to be seen, recent research suggests that cloth masks are also effective at reducing the spread of these smaller particles. In a paper that has not yet been peer-reviewed, researchers found that micro-droplets fell out of the air within 1.5 meters of the person who was wearing a mask, versus 5 meters for those not wearing masks. When combined with social distancing, this suggests that masks can effectively reduce transmission via micro-droplets.

 

Another recent study showed that unfitted surgical masks were 100% effective in blocking seasonal coronavirus in droplets ejected during breathing.

 

If only people with symptoms infected others, then only people with symptoms would need to wear masks. But experts have shown that people without symptoms pose a risk of infecting others. In fact, four recent studies show that nearly half of patients are infected by people who do not themselves have symptoms.

 

From the study linked:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2

 

Quote

We identified seasonal human coronaviruses, influenza viruses and rhinoviruses in exhaled breath and coughs of children and adults with acute respiratory illness. Surgical face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets. Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.

 

https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.03444

 

Quote

The utility of wearing simple cloth face masks is analyzed using computational fluid dynamics simulations. We simulate the aerodynamic flow through the mask and the spatial spread of droplet ejecta resulting from respiratory events such as coughing or sneezing. Without a mask, a turbulent jet forms, and droplets with a broad size distribution are ejected. Large droplets (greater than about 125 {\mu}m in diameter) fall to the ground within about 2 m, while turbulent clouds transport a mist of small aerosolized droplets over significant distances (~ 5 m), consistent with reported experimental findings. A loosely fitted simple cotton cloth mask (with a pore size ~ 4 microns) qualitatively changes the propagation of the high velocity jet, and largely eliminates the turbulent cloud downstream of the mask. About 12\% of the airflow leaks around the sides of a mask, considering a uniform gap of only 1 mm all around, between the face and the mask. The spread of ejecta is also changed, with most large droplets trapped at the mask surface. We present the viral load in the air and deposited around the person, and show that wearing even a simple cloth mask substantially decreases the extent of spatial spread of virus particles when an infected person coughs or sneezes.

 

 

I don’t see how what you quoted invalidates everything in the article. Even if wearing a mask doesn’t fully stop the spread of aerosolized virus particles, it still cuts down their spread vs not wearing a mask and it significantly cuts down the spread of droplets (currently thought to be the main way the virus is spread). So I don’t see how wearing a mask could do any harm, and even if it’s only 40% effective (they’re saying it may be closer to 80%), wouldn’t it be worth it?

 

Wearing a mask isn’t a perfect solution. But what is the science based argument for not wearing a mask? Is there one? Doesn't it seem more likely that wearing a mask will help prevent the spread vs not wearing anything over your nose and mouth? 

 

What other solution is being proposed to help cut down the spread? If there’s a better solution I’m all for it. Wearing a mask and social distancing seems to be the best we have at the moment.

[BillsFan4]

On 5/29/2020 at 2:07 PM, JaCrispy said:

Anyone heard any info (or have any thoughts) on what action will be taken by the NFL the first time a player tests positive for covid?

I’m curious of that myself. I honestly don’t know what the plan is as of now. I’m sure will will find out.

 

I would think that they know there will probably be some positive cases to deal with and I’m guessing they will have some type of protocol in place to deal with it without shutting down again, but who knows? Some of this stuff could depend on where we’re at w/this pandemic this fall. 

 

The NFL and NHL seem pretty determined to play, so i’m thinking they’ll find a way.

It sounds like the NHL will be keeping players basically in quarantine for the duration of their playoff series. I wonder if something similar could happen with the NFL (if it’s absolutely necessary)?

[SinceThe70s]

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

I’m curious of that myself. I honestly don’t know what the plan is as of now. I’m sure will will find out.

 

I would think that they know there will probably be some positive cases to deal with and I’m guessing they will have some type of protocol in place to deal with it without shutting down again, but who knows? Some of this stuff could depend on where we’re at w/this pandemic this fall. 

 

The NFL and NHL seem pretty determined to play, so i’m thinking they’ll find a way.

It sounds like the NHL will be keeping players basically in quarantine for the duration of their playoff series. I wonder if something similar could happen with the NFL (if it’s absolutely necessary)?

 

I'm sure that every league that starts back up will have a plan for dealing with a positive case. But as Mike Tyson famously said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".

 

My son raised an interesting question. If the NHL is able to have their 24 team tournament in the summer,  how will that affect the next season which will be close to the normal start? I have no clue, but my suspicion is they'll try to make sure that whatever form the next season takes it will include fans in the stands.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

On 5/21/2020 at 8:14 PM, BillsFan4 said:

@BuffaloBillsGospel @TheBrownBear

 

How are you both doing?  Hope all is going well. 

 

 

Thanks man, it was a rough week but I'm continuing to get better each day so and I wasn't hospitalized so i won't complain. Still feeling siode effects, dizzyness and I get winded just going to the mailbox but again, I'm not going to complain it could have been much worse. Thanks again for asking, that was good of you brother!

[The Dean]

18 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

 

Thanks man, it was a rough week but I'm continuing to get better each day so and I wasn't hospitalized so i won't complain. Still feeling siode effects, dizzyness and I get winded just going to the mailbox but again, I'm not going to complain it could have been much worse. Thanks again for asking, that was good of you brother!

 

Well, glad to hear you are finally getting through it. I know a couple of other people (and Bills' fans) who have been through similar tough bouts with the Covid.  Please keep us updated.

[BillsFan4]

13 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

 

Thanks man, it was a rough week but I'm continuing to get better each day so and I wasn't hospitalized so i won't complain. Still feeling siode effects, dizzyness and I get winded just going to the mailbox but again, I'm not going to complain it could have been much worse. Thanks again for asking, that was good of you brother!

Glad to hear back from you! and glad to hear you are doing ok and getting better each day.

 

That’s a bummer you’re still getting winded but that seems to be a pretty common complaint and one of the longer lasting symptoms for many. It might be worth trying some deep breathing and lung clearings exercises. 

 

Best wishes on a continued, speedy recovery! 

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by BillsFan4

[plenzmd1]

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

11 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Glad to hear back from you! and glad to hear you are doing ok and getting better each day.

 

That’s a bummer you’re still getting winded but that seems to be a pretty common complaint and one of the longer lasting symptoms for many. It might be worth trying some deep breathing and lung clearings exercises. 

 

Best wishes on a continued, speedy recovery! 

 

 

I appreciate it, I've definitely been doing the breathing exercises throughout this process, thanks for the tips and well wishes. I'm just trying to get back to normal as soon as possible.

[Bad Things]

Are people even talking about Covid-19 up in America anymore?

 

 

[plenzmd1]

7 hours ago, Bad Things said:

Are people even talking about Covid-19 up in America anymore?

 

 

Nope, it has magically gone away.

 

Here is what i do know...if there is no spike in hospitalizations and ICU usage in the next two weeks, so almost 4 weeks from Memorial day and all the predictions of massive outbreaks...we gunna be in Orchard Park just like normal on Septemebr 13th!

[Bad Things]

Weren't there over 21,000 new cases and over a thousand new deaths in the US yesterday?

[BillsFan4]

19 hours ago, Bad Things said:

Weren't there over 21,000 new cases and over a thousand new deaths in the US yesterday?

Yes. It’s still here. It looks like we are still seeing over 1000 deaths a day looking at the CDC site. Over 106,000 total deaths by their count.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

 

I think it’s just taken a back seat for the moment as far as news coverage goes.

 

It definitely seems to be under control much better in NYS where I’m at, but I’m still taking all the same precautions. Things seem to be trending in the right direction in many states, which is great to see. I’m hopeful that continues. But I think we are probably far from dome with this virus, though I’d love to be wrong. We haven’t even started flu season yet this year. I doubt that it’ll just be magically gone by then, but I pray it is. That would be amazing.

[K-9]

4 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Yes. It’s still here. It looks like we are still seeing over 1000 deaths a day looking at the CDC site. Over 106,000 total deaths by their count.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

 

I think it’s just taken a back seat for the moment as far as news coverage goes.

 

It definitely seems to be under control much better in NYS where I’m at, but I’m still taking all the same precautions. Things seem to be trending in the right direction in many states, which is great to see. I’m hopeful that continues. But I think we are probably far from dome with this virus, though I’d love to be wrong. We haven’t even started flu season yet this year. I doubt that it’ll just be magically gone by then, but I pray it is. That would be amazing.

Do you think NYS is where it’s at because we followed a controlled, phased reopening that depended on data and certain metrics to be met first? Would states currently experiencing upticks have been better off if they’d done same thing? 
 

Those questions are rhetorical, btw. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by K-9

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Do you think NYS is where it’s at because we followed a controlled, phased reopening that depended on data and certain metrics to be met first? Would states currently experiencing upticks have been better off if they’d done same thing? 
 

Those questions are rhetorical, btw. 

It is going to be interesting to follow if the demonstrations in the various locations result in a spike of cases. Crowds were tightly packed and to a significant extent were unmasked. The cause is worthy but the aftereffects of being in the crowd could have major health ramifications. I hope I'm wrong. 

[K-9]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

It is going to be interesting to follow if the demonstrations in the various locations result in a spike of cases. Crowds were tightly packed and to a significant extent were unmasked. The cause is worthy but the aftereffects of being in the crowd could have major health ramifications. I hope I'm wrong. 

My hope is that the hot and humid weather in some areas will mitigate the spread, but yeah, I’m hoping I’m wrong about seeing an uptick in a couple weeks. 

[JohnC]

Just now, K-9 said:

My hope is that the hot and humid weather in some areas will mitigate the spread, but yeah, I’m hoping I’m wrong about seeing an uptick in a couple weeks. 

It's hot and humid in south and central America. It is spreading there. 

 

This administration is very determined to get on the road and rally the tribe.  And with the understandable desire for people to not be cooped up and be outside and mingl I worry that this virus is going to be more pervasive that it needed to be. 

[spartacus]

11 hours ago, JohnC said:

It's hot and humid in south and central America. It is spreading there. 

 

This administration is very determined to get on the road and rally the tribe.  And with the understandable desire for people to not be cooped up and be outside and mingl I worry that this virus is going to be more pervasive that it needed to be. 

The facts at this point show that COVId-19 mortality is about the same as the flu.

The biggest diff is that the most severe impact is concentrated in those >80 with compromised immune systems

which makes Covid-19 easier to combat - by protecting a small slice of easily identifiable  population.

 

The early high death counts will not be duplicated because treating doctors have stopped following the WHO protocols pushing for pnemonia treatment and ventilators.

Use of common oxygen has been instrumental in reducing ICU shortages.

 

It has been shown that zinc cripples the ability of the virus to replicate, thus allowing the immune system to eradicate the virus without any vaccine.

https://indigonaturals.net/blogs/news/supplements-that-share-a-key-pathway-with-hydroxychloroquine-for-coronavirus

 

A proactive program which ensures people have an adequate level of absorbable zinc and Qercetine or epigallocatechin gallate (ECGC)___ would allow most people to return to normal life immediately. 

 

but alas, no money to be made in that. 

 

 

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, spartacus said:

The facts at this point show that COVId-19 mortality is about the same as the flu.

The biggest diff is that the most severe impact is concentrated in those >80 with compromised immune systems

which makes Covid-19 easier to combat - by protecting a small slice of easily identifiable  population.

 

The early high death counts will not be duplicated because treating doctors have stopped following the WHO protocols pushing for pnemonia treatment and ventilators.

Use of common oxygen has been instrumental in reducing ICU shortages.

 

It has been shown that zinc cripples the ability of the virus to replicate, thus allowing the immune system to eradicate the virus without any vaccine.

https://indigonaturals.net/blogs/news/supplements-that-share-a-key-pathway-with-hydroxychloroquine-for-coronavirus

 

 

A proactive program which ensures people have an adequate level of absorbable zinc and Qercetine or epigallocatechin gallate (ECGC)___ would allow most people to return to normal life immediately. 

 

but alas, no money to be made in that. 

 

 

I appreciate your response. I'm out of my depth when discussing the best medical practice in fighting this virus which from all reports is more contagious than the standard yearly flu. My sense is that you are not only under estimating the widespread worldwide infection rate but alo are exaggerating the effectiveness of certain drugs. Again, I appreciate your response but I am very much skeptical of it. 

[spartacus]

22 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I appreciate your response. I'm out of my depth when discussing the best medical practice in fighting this virus which from all reports is more contagious than the standard yearly flu. My sense is that you are not only under estimating the widespread worldwide infection rate but alo are exaggerating the effectiveness of certain drugs. Again, I appreciate your response but I am very much skeptical of it. 

All of the prior doom and gloom claims used in the models have been shown to be highly exaggerated. 

Those infected but without symptoms don't transmit the virus, since the viral load in their body is too low (their immune system is winning)

we don't know how effective basic treatments are, because the "experts" are only interested in keeping the fear going until the magic vaccine can be rolled out.

 

why is that? 

 

why is it better to be have the actual virus intentionally shot into your body to give you immunity to that specific strain- when your body's natural immunity can be enhanced with organic products.

[K-9]

12 hours ago, JohnC said:

It's hot and humid in south and central America. It is spreading there. 

 

This administration is very determined to get on the road and rally the tribe.  And with the understandable desire for people to not be cooped up and be outside and mingl I worry that this virus is going to be more pervasive that it needed to be. 

Good point. 

[BillsFan4]

We have lost over 106,000 american lives in just 3 months. Our worst “average flu” seasons see about 30-60,000 deaths over a 9+ month span. In a flu season that sees 60,000 deaths, that averages to about 225 deaths per day. With Covid19 we are still currently at roughly 1000 deaths per day, and back in April we were seeing over 2000 deaths per day. 

 

The black line shows the seasonal baseline. 2018/19 was the worst flu season we’ve seen since the 2009 swine flu pandemic. Look how it compared to 2020.

 

 

We don’t yet know the exact mortality rate, but we know enough to say that this virus is  definitely dangerous.

 

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/so-how-deadly-is-covid-19/

So How Deadly Is COVID-19?

‘We still don’t know, and it doesn’t really matter right now; it’s plenty deadly’

 

Quote

So, the mortality rate, instead of being a fixed number that distills the true essence of the virus’s danger, is actually a protean, organic, fluid metric. The rate of fatalities among COVID-19 cases “is not a biological constant,” according to a team of Oxford researchers. “Instead, it reflects the severity of the disease in a particular context, at a particular time, in a particular population.” Even with perfect data, the mortality rate is a living number, changing all the time, that is in part a reflection of ourselves. With these limitations in mind, we should be wary of using any one estimate of mortality in shaping our response to the pandemic.

 

Quote

But from my perspective as an emergency physician, precisely how deadly the virus is doesn’t matter right now, because the virus is deadly enough. I’ve stood on the front lines of the pandemic, and I know that this virus is no house cat. Every day for weeks, my colleagues and I have faced wave after wave of COVID patients in their 30s, 50s or 80s, many of them extraordinarily ill. Some of these people have died. Its virulence is astonishing, at least among hospitalized patients. Experienced physicians know that this is nothing like the flu.

 

We know enough to understand the dangerous potential that this virus still holds. We know that the coronavirus spreads twice as fast as flu, or faster, and that if left unchecked it has the potential to race through populations like wildfire. We know that viral “dose” likely influences illness severity, which masks and social distancing can mitigate. We know that a large majority of people likely remain unexposed and susceptible. If infected, we know some of these people will die.  

 

Wherever the mortality rates may settle, we have enough information to act responsibly, with carefully phased reopenings and robust testing and contact tracing. 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by BillsFan4

[BillsFan4]

Great news!

[JohnC]

28 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Great news!

As you and others have frequently pointed out if you follow the science and data and appropriately respond the results will be good. NYC didn't get to this point because they lucked into it. They took the necesarry measures, painful as they were, to get this point. If the state and city would have relied on wishful thinking and magical solutions instead of following the standard public health strategy to deal with this scourge the results would have been even more devastating. As you well know this killer virus is far from being defeated. 

[spartacus]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

As you and others have frequently pointed out if you follow the science and data and appropriately respond the results will be good. NYC didn't get to this point because they lucked into it. They took the necesarry measures, painful as they were, to get this point. If the state and city would have relied on wishful thinking and magical solutions instead of following the standard public health strategy to deal with this scourge the results would have been even more devastating. As you well know this killer virus is far from being defeated. 

based on actual data, there is a conflicting position that the lockdown did nothing to stop the spread of the virus.

The biggest cause for the big improvement against the gloom and doom forecast is that the models were intentional inflated to drive the fear mongering

 

in fact, the "necessary measure" of forcing very sick people into nursing homes is probably the key factor why the numbers are as bad as they are

 

as soon as doctors stopped following the WHO treatment protocol and need for ventilators, the medical emergency was over

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, spartacus said:

All of the prior doom and gloom claims used in the models have been shown to be highly exaggerated. 

Those infected but without symptoms don't transmit the virus, since the viral load in their body is too low (their immune system is winning)

we don't know how effective basic treatments are, because the "experts" are only interested in keeping the fear going until the magic vaccine can be rolled out.

 

why is that? 

 

why is it better to be have the actual virus intentionally shot into your body to give you immunity to that specific strain- when your body's natural immunity can be enhanced with organic products.

I'm candid enough not to exaggerate my medical expertise. But by almost all accounts of those in the field who are involved in this field of medicine decisively say that infected people without symptoms can transmit the virus. That is what makes this virus especially pernicious. As a layman I am comfortable without any equivocation in holding to this position.

 

It's not about the politics; it's about the science and data.  

[spartacus]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

I'm candid enough not to exaggerate my medical expertise. But by almost all accounts of those in the field who are involved in this field of medicine decisively say that infected people without symptoms can transmit the virus. That is what makes this virus especially pernicious. As a layman I am comfortable without any equivocation in holding to this position.

 

It's not about the politics; it's about the science and data.  

that was the original storyline.

The WHO now says asymtomatic people have little chance of spreading the virus.

this is because the viral load is is too low because their body's immune  system fought off the virus

[JohnC]

Just now, spartacus said:

based on actual data, there is a conflicting position that the lockdown did nothing to stop the spread of the virus.

The biggest cause for the big improvement against the gloom and doom forecast is that the models were intentional inflated to drive the fear mongering

 

in fact, the "necessary measure" of forcing very sick people into nursing homes is probably the key factor why the numbers are as bad as they are

 

as soon as doctors stopped following the WHO treatment protocol and need for ventilators, the medical emergency was over

There is no doubt that the elderly were the most vulnerable, especially those housed in elderly facilities. It should be noted that the elderly weren't forced into those domiciles. That was where they resided before the pandemic spread. No one disagrees with something that is so obvious. 

 

WHO treatment protocols and individual national protocols have changed as more knowledge and data have accrued. That shouldn't be surprising. The medical field is adapting and changing as more information comes in as to what works and doesn't. 

[Sundancer]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Great news!

Erm. Put several footnotes on the first sentence. The second sentence isn’t true. 
 

The deaths in NYC are way down though.