Covid-19 discussion and humor thread [Was: CDC says don't touch your face to avoid Covid19...Vets to the rescue!

[BillsFan4]

Thanks for all you’ve done here at TBD throughout this pandemic Hapless. It’s much appreciated! 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...we as electrical contractors are deemed an essential business under NYS guidelines, operating throughout this......180 electricians in the field......35 people in administration at our corporate office.....have taken every mandated as well as recommended precaution...and not ONE Covid-19 case (knock on wood)....what did we do wrong?.........

[Bad Things]

On 6/14/2020 at 5:07 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

You all are willing ignorant and are not worth my time, good day.

 

 

So, you had enough time to come in here and spew your BS, but now need to scurry away because people are calling you out?

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Bad Things

[shoshin]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...we as electrical contractors are deemed an essential business under NYS guidelines, operating throughout this......180 electricians in the field......35 people in administration at our corporate office.....have taken every mandated as well as recommended precaution...and not ONE Covid-19 case (knock on wood)....what did we do wrong?.........

 

Nothing. Distancing, hygiene, and masks make a HUGE difference.

 

Well done. Let's open up!

Edited June 14, 2020 by shoshin

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

34 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Nothing. Distancing, hygiene, and masks make a HUGE difference.

 

Well done. Let's open up!

 

...we have $2,500 of disposable masks in inventory for our workers...and just spent $5,000 more on washable masks as well.....we spent $3,000 on touchless thermometers for field use and outfitted our job sites with complete cleanliness kits including MSDS spec sheets for tool sanitation etc......we are making every effort to ensure the safety our our workers no matter what the cost may be......and will do MORE if necessary.........

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...we have $2,500 of disposable masks in inventory for our workers...and just spent $5,000 more on washable masks as well.....we spent $3,000 on touchless thermometers for field use and outfitted our job sites with complete cleanliness kits including MSDS spec sheets for tool sanitation etc......we are making every effort to ensure the safety our our workers no matter what the cost may be......and will do MORE if necessary.........

 

You guys sound as though you're doing everything right. 

Sounds like our own @Gugny's company is also doing things right - spacing workstations, providing N95 masks, etc.

 

My kid is working at GM's Tonawanda Powertrain this summer.  It is 100% mask wearing facility.  At entry, wear yesterday's mask, space 6' apart on the "yellow brick road" (yellow lines 6' apart); advance to the masking station.  Remove old mask, sanitize hands, don new mask; advance to security station, show badge, get temperature scan.  Wear mask all shift except when eating, socially distanced, in cafeteria (bring own food).

They'll be "doing the experiment" of how well these measures work since they had 3 workers (two security guards and a millworker) diagnosed + with covid-19; it is thought to have been community-acquired.  A lot of workers are apparently upset, but I think if they've been following the procedures and doing what they should, will be OK.  If they've been kiting out for unmasked smoking breaks or wearing their mask like a "blue beard cover", Welp Then.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You guys sound as though you're doing everything right. 

Sounds like our own @Gugny's company is also doing things right - spacing workstations, providing N95 masks, etc.

 

My kid is working at GM's Tonawanda Powertrain this summer.  It is 100% mask wearing facility.  At entry, wear yesterday's mask, space 6' apart on the "yellow brick road" (yellow lines 6' apart); advance to the masking station.  Remove old mask, sanitize hands, don new mask; advance to security station, show badge, get temperature scan.  Wear mask all shift except when eating, socially distanced, in cafeteria (bring own food).

They'll be "doing the experiment" of how well these measures work since they had 3 workers (two security guards and a millworker) diagnosed + with covid-19; it is thought to have been community-acquired.  A lot of workers are apparently upset, but I think if they've been following the procedures and doing what they should, will be OK.  If they've been kiting out for unmasked smoking breaks or wearing their mask like a "blue beard cover", Welp Then.

 

 

 

...we as a company try to do our best with the best interest of our employees' health and safety as a top priority....we can't get caught up in the political hype as to whether it is or it isn't a hoax, overreaction etc.....I see here from your numerous posts from a scientific community perspective as to how things change regularly, whether for the good or with hesitancy as far as acceptance regarding trials, potential vaccines et al....how your community sorts out the haves and have nots is beyond me or our company.....in the interim, we have decided to err on the side of proactive precaution no matter what the cost is.....we are proud to do so and thankful for our financial wherewithal...

Edited June 14, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Sundancer]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You guys sound as though you're doing everything right. 

Sounds like our own @Gugny's company is also doing things right - spacing workstations, providing N95 masks, etc.

 

My kid is working at GM's Tonawanda Powertrain this summer.  It is 100% mask wearing facility.  At entry, wear yesterday's mask, space 6' apart on the "yellow brick road" (yellow lines 6' apart); advance to the masking station.  Remove old mask, sanitize hands, don new mask; advance to security station, show badge, get temperature scan.  Wear mask all shift except when eating, socially distanced, in cafeteria (bring own food).

They'll be "doing the experiment" of how well these measures work since they had 3 workers (two security guards and a millworker) diagnosed + with covid-19; it is thought to have been community-acquired.  A lot of workers are apparently upset, but I think if they've been following the procedures and doing what they should, will be OK.  If they've been kiting out for unmasked smoking breaks or wearing their mask like a "blue beard cover", Welp Then.

 

 

Anyone who is going out sees a range of compliance, and obviously one messy compliance can make lots of people sick. But when I see many people doing their level best, and when some guy who has never worn a mask before plays with his face covering for 10 seconds because it itches or whatever, I don't lose my mind. If most of us make the effort, even if its imperfect, it will make a difference.

 

And hopefully we can be out of masks soon because I hate 'em too!

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

Anyone who is going out sees a range of compliance, and obviously one messy compliance can make lots of people sick. But when I see many people doing their level best, and when some guy who has never worn a mask before plays with his face covering for 10 seconds because it itches or whatever, I don't lose my mind. If most of us make the effort, even if its imperfect, it will make a difference.

 

And hopefully we can be out of masks soon because I hate 'em too!

 

I find my masks uncomfortable, but I'd hate getting sick a lot more

 

What I actually wish is that there were more help available to folks about achieving a good fit with a mask.  There are a lot of little tricks which make the difference between a procedure mask slipping down your shnoz or a good mask not making a proper seal.  But if there's a "Mask Wearing Advanced Level" site that provides said tips, I don't know of it.

[BillsFan4]

 

 Lots more detail in the twitter thread.

Edited June 14, 2020 by BillsFan4

[BillsFan4]

https://www.menshealth.com/health/a32023994/coronavirus-covid-19-new-york-city-er-doctor-cleavon-gilman/

 

“The COVID-19 War Diaries”

 

Quote

Cleavon Gilman, M.D., is an Iraq-war veteran and an emergency-medicine physician in New York City, where he worked through the shocking rise and deadly peak of the COVID-19 coronavirus. Those two experiences—warfare and pandemic—share striking similarities. This is his survival guide, told, in part, through his own words.’

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 6/13/2020 at 10:51 AM, BillsFan4 said:

Here’s a collection of research papers on pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic spread I put together for @Hapless Bills Fan

 

 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2001737

SARS-CoV-2 Viral Load in Upper Respiratory Specimens of Infected Patients

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2001468

Transmission of 2019-nCoV Infection from an Asymptomatic Contact in Germany

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/20-0198_article

Potential Presymptomatic Transmission of SARS-CoV-2, Zhejiang Province, China, 2020

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6914e1.htm

Presymptomatic transmission of SARS-CoV-2, Singapore

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32091386/

Potential Presymptomatic Transmission of SARS-CoV-2, Zhejiang Province, China, 2020

 

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473-3099(20)30114-6.pdf

Asymptomatic cases in a family cluster with SARS-CoV-2 infection
 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMc2001899

Evidence of SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Returning Travelers from Wuhan, China

 

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32329971/

Presymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infections and Transmission in a Skilled Nursing Facility

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7078829/

Estimating the asymptomatic proportion of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) cases on board the Diamond Princess cruise ship, Yokohama, Japan, 2020

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6913e1.htm

Asymptomatic and presymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections in residents of a long-term care skilled nursing facility, king county WA.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32146694/

Clinical Characteristics of 24 Asymptomatic Infections With COVID-19 Screened Among Close Contacts in Nanjing, China

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/clinical-guidance-management-patients.html

Covid 19 clinical care guidance (CDC)

 

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32243729/

The Isolation Period Should Be Longer: Lesson From a Child Infected With SARS-CoV-2 in Chongqing, China

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1684118220301134

A Systematic Review of Asymptomatic Infections With COVID-19

 

 

https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Citation/9000/Prolonged_Viral_RNA_Shedding_Duration_in_COVID_19.98280.aspx

 

 

 

Thanks - none of these are the stuff I was looking for, which was be evidence to support the WHO statement about asymptomatic transmission being "rare" - I suppose that's a moot point as she has walked it back and acknowledged evidence does not support that statement.

 

But it's highly valuable stuff and thank you much for doing this!!!!!!

 

Another presymptomatic paper, this time testing surfaces in a quarantine hotel room where two presymptomatic (as it turns out) travelers were assigned to quarantine:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/9/20-1435_article

TL;DR :  Two presymptomatic returning travelers had high viral titer upon testing, and corresponding high viral titer was found upon sampling the rooms where they had been assigned to stay for quarantine.

 

They stayed in those rooms <24 hrs before being admitted to hospital, still presymptomatic  (because that's what they do in China when you test positive - you go to a quarantine hospital to avoid infecting other people and to be monitored and treated promptly).   They were asymptomatic upon hospital admission. 

 

Patient A developed symptoms 2 days post admission and Patient B developed symptoms 6 days post admission to hospital.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BillsFan4]

New study (looks like it’s peer reviewed)

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/10/2009637117

‘Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19’

 

Quote

Significance

We have elucidated the transmission pathways of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) by analyzing the trend and mitigation measures in the three epicenters. Our results show that the airborne transmission route is highly virulent and dominant for the spread of COVID-19. The mitigation measures are discernable from the trends of the pandemic. Our analysis reveals that the difference with and without mandated face covering represents the determinant in shaping the trends of the pandemic. This protective measure significantly reduces the number of infections. Other mitigation measures, such as social distancing implemented in the United States, are insufficient by themselves in protecting the public. Our work also highlights the necessity that sound science is essential in decision-making for the current and future public health pandemics.

 

[BillsFan4]

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/9/20-2272_article

 

Quote

Abstract

We analyzed 3,184 cases of coronavirus disease in Japan and identified 61 case-clusters in healthcare and other care facilities, restaurants and bars, workplaces, and music events. We also identified 22 probable primary case-patients for the clusters; most were 20–39 years of age and presymptomatic or asymptomatic at virus transmission.

 

Quote

We noted many COVID-19 clusters were associated with heavy breathing in close proximity, such as singing at karaoke parties, cheering at clubs, having conversations in bars, and exercising in gymnasiums. Other studies have noted such activities can facilitate clusters of infection (9,10). Japan’s Prime Minister’s Office and the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare announced 3 situations that could increase the risk for COVID-19 cases and advised the population to avoid the “Three Cs”: closed spaces with poor ventilation, crowded places, and close-contact settings (11).

 

Among the probable primary COVID-19 cases we identified from non-nosocomial clusters, half (11/22) were 20–39 years of age, which is younger than the age distribution of all COVID-19 cases in Japan (Figure 2, panel A). We do not know whether social, biological, or both factors play a role in the difference in transmission patterns between the younger and older persons. We also noted probable primary COVID-19 case-patients appear to transmit the virus and generate clusters even in the absence of apparent respiratory symptoms, such as cough.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by BillsFan4

[BillsFan4]

Ezekiel Elliott is one of them (I read 4 total so far).

[BillsFan4]

This was pretty stunning to see. Photo on the left was taken about a month before he got covid 19, and the one on the right was taken after 6 weeks in the hospital.

 

story:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/05/20/nurse-coronavirus-survivor-before-and-after-nr-keilar-vpx.cnn

[The Dean]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

This was pretty stunning to see. Photo on the left was taken about a month before he got covid 19, and the one on the right was taken after 6 weeks in the hospital.

 

story:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/05/20/nurse-coronavirus-survivor-before-and-after-nr-keilar-vpx.cnn

 

 

It's just the flu!

[Jrb1979]

They have extended the Canada/U.S. border closure til July 21st. I fully expect it them to keep extending it for awhile. Too many hot spots popping up in many parts of the U.S. that are very concerning. Before anyone goes off on how more testing means higher cases I call bull.

 

Here in Ontario, we have had around 190 new cases a day and been testing over 23000 people a day. I find it hard to understand why cases are rising so high in many states. Is it that most just don't care anymore?

[BillsFan4]

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2020/06/15/woman-15-friends-test-positive-for-coronavirus-after-night-out-at-lynchs/

‘Woman, 15 friends test positive for coronavirus after night out at Lynch’s (bar)”.

 

 

 

[The Dean]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2020/06/15/woman-15-friends-test-positive-for-coronavirus-after-night-out-at-lynchs/

‘Woman, 15 friends test positive for coronavirus after night out at Lynch’s (bar)”.

 

 

 

 

 

I've been to Lynch's a few times, but not so far this year. It's close to my medical marijuana doctor, so I typically stop for one (maybe two) before the appointment.

 

That's exactly the sort of thing I predicted when they started loosening things up. Despite a (very soft) message to still continue to socially distance and a  (weak)  recommendation to wear masks, the message I believed most people would process is "All's well. They wouldn't allow us to do this if things weren't safe enough."

[plenzmd1]

 

 

Posted 1 hour ago

  Quote

People like to keep saying this

What you seem to have skated by (it has been pointed out, up thread), is that

1) the high risk people - the people who have comorbid conditions identified as risk factors for more serious covid-19 disease/hospitalization - may include half of us.  Hypertension, obesity, diabetes, heart disease - the identified risk factors - affect roughly 50% of the American population, and certainly some of these affect NFL staff including coaches.  It probably includes a significant number of players since some of them are known to have diabetes (well controlled I assume), statistically some are likely to have high blood pressure (hopefully well controlled), and DL and OLmen are encouraged to "block a lot of daylight" and thus may be obese in terms of weight and body fat % - fit and amazingly athletic, but obese.

2) how exactly does this "high risk people stay home" thing work?  Obviously they can not attend sporting events, but what about the rest of life?  Don't answer here, but please consider answering in the Covid discussion thread on OTW.  How do these high risk people obtain groceries, medical care, money (if they need to work), personal care if they need assistance with "activities of daily living" or even just with driving and cleaning the house?

 

@Hapless Bills Fan

 

Will do my best to answer your here. 

 

First, i do not buy the argument that half of the US population carries higher risk factors and much higher risk of bad outcomes . I dont buy that, and think it highlights what many have dubbed "panic porn".

 

If that were the case, ;logically would not young people with those conditions be dying at the same rate as older people?  This has been proven to be much more fatal to older folks with one or more comorbidity factors...you would have to show me the numbers to convince me young and old affected the same , i have not seen numbers like that and have no idea where i could find them.

 

2nd. Not quite sure what your point is on #2 . If your thesis is that because 50% have high risk factors , we should continue with lockdown and only keep essential services open? Things like grocery stores, pharmacies, hospitals, Walmart etc?

 

If that is the case, one has to assume a good portion of those folks work in grocery stores, work picking up trash, work cleaning hospitals, provising personal care to the elderly..in other words people who are doing "essential" jobs now..make up 50% of those jobs as well.  We also know minorities  make up a higher portion of those jobs, so i would say that even higher than 50% rhigh risk factor make up those jobs now. We know minority is  truly a high risk factor due to more crowded living conditions and more multi generational housing.  

 

So, I will ask you how have those people getting those services/goods now? Is it okay for higher risks groups to continue to work and continue to place their families at risk while the rest of us stay home and get paid, order Grubhub, order Amazon everyday, go to Lowes cause I need to get my garden in, protest in groups of hundreds of thousands? Is it okay to continue to have migrant farm workers and hispanic workers at meat plants work as cases in those environments spike like crazy?  If so, please tell me why?

 

My answer is those with true , proven, high risk factors are guaranteed pay through we get a vaccine or  very extremly effective  therpy, and a guaranteed job upon return. If you have an elder in your home with comorbidity factors, they need to be self isolated as muchas possible and those families are giving the absolute top notch PPE that prevents transmission

[BillsFan4]

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/texas-players-coronavirus-longhorns-01eb43t8ys99

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Red states spiking

 

A Republican sheriff in Arizona who in April said he would refuse to continue enforcing the state’s coronavirus lockdown order has tested positive for the contagion during a visit to the White House.

 

 

Do I read that as - he went to visit the WH and was tested and refused entry?

[The Dean]

3 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Red states spiking

 

A Republican sheriff in Arizona who in April said he would refuse to continue enforcing the state’s coronavirus lockdown order has tested positive for the contagion during a visit to the White House.

 

 

Do I read that as - he went to visit the WH and was tested and refused entry?

 

 

Lamb likely got infected at a June 14 reelection event, he said. Video from the event, in San Tan Valley, Arizona, shows Lamb greeting and interacting with supporters, according to the Casa Grande Dispatch.

Neither the sheriff nor the event's attendees wear masks in the video, it shows.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/18/us/gop-sheriff-arizona-covid-19-trnd/index.html

 

Complete freaking morons. What else is there to say?

[plenzmd1]

On 6/17/2020 at 1:11 PM, plenzmd1 said:

 

 

Posted 1 hour ago

  Quote

People like to keep saying this

What you seem to have skated by (it has been pointed out, up thread), is that

1) the high risk people - the people who have comorbid conditions identified as risk factors for more serious covid-19 disease/hospitalization - may include half of us.  Hypertension, obesity, diabetes, heart disease - the identified risk factors - affect roughly 50% of the American population, and certainly some of these affect NFL staff including coaches.  It probably includes a significant number of players since some of them are known to have diabetes (well controlled I assume), statistically some are likely to have high blood pressure (hopefully well controlled), and DL and OLmen are encouraged to "block a lot of daylight" and thus may be obese in terms of weight and body fat % - fit and amazingly athletic, but obese.

2) how exactly does this "high risk people stay home" thing work?  Obviously they can not attend sporting events, but what about the rest of life?  Don't answer here, but please consider answering in the Covid discussion thread on OTW.  How do these high risk people obtain groceries, medical care, money (if they need to work), personal care if they need assistance with "activities of daily living" or even just with driving and cleaning the house?

 

@Hapless Bills Fan

 

Will do my best to answer your here. 

 

First, i do not buy the argument that half of the US population carries higher risk factors and much higher risk of bad outcomes . I dont buy that, and think it highlights what many have dubbed "panic porn".

 

If that were the case, ;logically would not young people with those conditions be dying at the same rate as older people?  This has been proven to be much more fatal to older folks with one or more comorbidity factors...you would have to show me the numbers to convince me young and old affected the same , i have not seen numbers like that and have no idea where i could find them.

 

2nd. Not quite sure what your point is on #2 . If your thesis is that because 50% have high risk factors , we should continue with lockdown and only keep essential services open? Things like grocery stores, pharmacies, hospitals, Walmart etc?

 

If that is the case, one has to assume a good portion of those folks work in grocery stores, work picking up trash, work cleaning hospitals, provising personal care to the elderly..in other words people who are doing "essential" jobs now..make up 50% of those jobs as well.  We also know minorities  make up a higher portion of those jobs, so i would say that even higher than 50% rhigh risk factor make up those jobs now. We know minority is  truly a high risk factor due to more crowded living conditions and more multi generational housing.  

 

So, I will ask you how have those people getting those services/goods now? Is it okay for higher risks groups to continue to work and continue to place their families at risk while the rest of us stay home and get paid, order Grubhub, order Amazon everyday, go to Lowes cause I need to get my garden in, protest in groups of hundreds of thousands? Is it okay to continue to have migrant farm workers and hispanic workers at meat plants work as cases in those environments spike like crazy?  If so, please tell me why?

 

My answer is those with true , proven, high risk factors are guaranteed pay through we get a vaccine or  very extremly effective  therpy, and a guaranteed job upon return. If you have an elder in your home with comorbidity factors, they need to be self isolated as muchas possible and those families are giving the absolute top notch PPE that prevents transmission

No response or rebuttal @Hapless Bills Fan, promised me as much more than 24 hours ago. 

[Punching Bag]

I used to follow advice of expert and wore mask constantly but discovered that he could not differentiate between facts and opinions, connotation and denotations, rationality or mob mentality so figured he must be wrong on that so I stopped.

 

Still work at home per rules but agency is like expert - says one thing but then hammers you for not completely paperwork not due to end of August and incapable of being done remotely.  Sent multiple queries asking how to get it done with tools provided and no response because tools are inadequate but agency wants to claim it is doing everything they can to make it possible to work remotely.  Reviewer is same person who created the slides and if you do not agree take it up with head of agency.  The paperwork?  Just read some PowerPoint slides and acknowledge you have read them.  Not even a quiz to make your understand what you have read (and there were several pages which contradicted each other).  This could have been done many other ways but Head of Security stated do it this way or be denied access despite due date being end of August and likely will be working in office by then with issues due to inadequate remote "best of class" tools not being an issue but Head of Security is using cooked data and projections to replace facts.

 

[plenzmd1]

12 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Lamb likely got infected at a June 14 reelection event, he said. Video from the event, in San Tan Valley, Arizona, shows Lamb greeting and interacting with supporters, according to the Casa Grande Dispatch.

Neither the sheriff nor the event's attendees wear masks in the video, it shows.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/18/us/gop-sheriff-arizona-covid-19-trnd/index.html

 

Complete freaking morons. What else is there to say?

just saying...

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372?fbclid=IwAR1EoJkVn0xxmfBb6RNhasEb2XXM6E2Lr-p7YOMrvMFl9iMBwKPQLl96lIo

 

I mean it is the New England Journal Of Medicine...

 

Quote

We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.

 

[muppy]

LOL  

[BillsFan4]

4 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

just saying...

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372?fbclid=IwAR1EoJkVn0xxmfBb6RNhasEb2XXM6E2Lr-p7YOMrvMFl9iMBwKPQLl96lIo

 

I mean it is the New England Journal Of Medicine...

 

 

 

From the New England journal of medicine on the article you posted:

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2020836

 

Quote

We understand that some people are citing our Perspective article (published on April 1 at NEJM.org)¹ as support for discrediting widespread masking. In truth, the intent of our article was to push for more masking, not less. It is apparent that many people with SARS-CoV-2 infection are asymptomatic or presymptomatic yet highly contagious and that these people account for a substantial fraction of all transmissions.^2,3 Universal masking helps to prevent such people from spreading virus-laden secretions, whether they recognize that they are infected or not.⁴

 

We did state in the article that “wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection,” but as the rest of the paragraph makes clear, we intended this statement to apply to passing encounters in public spaces, not sustained interactions within closed environments. A growing body of research shows that the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission is strongly correlated with the duration and intensity of contact: the risk of transmission among household members can be as high as 40%, whereas the risk of transmission from less intense and less sustained encounters is below 5%.^5-7 This finding is also borne out by recent research associating mask wearing with less transmission of SARS-CoV-2, particularly in closed settings.⁸ We therefore strongly support the calls of public health agencies for all people to wear masks when circumstances compel them to be within 6 ft of others for sustained periods.

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by BillsFan4

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

From the New England journal of medicine on the article you posted:

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2020836

 

 

not sure your point...calls only for masks when you will be in sustained contact with someone and will be within 6 feet of them for that sustained period of time. To be clear, i have been wearing a mask since mid March. 

 

But the science of mask wearing is not cut and dried..for example wearing them outside seems to make zero sense. Wearing them in a store seems to make little sense based on this article, wearing them anywhere where you will not be in close contact for a sustained period of time seems to make little sense. 

 

Am i reading that wrong?

[BillsFan4]

Hey @Hapless Bills Fan did you see this?

 

https://connectingvets.radio.com/articles/fort-benning-confirms-142-covid-19-cases-in-2-battalions

 

“8 days after quarantine and testing negative, 142 Fort Benning soldiers test positive for COVID-19”

 

Quote

The U.S. Army tested a cohort 640 new recruits and instructors for COVID-19 upon arrival at Fort Benning, Ga. All but four tested negative. Eight days after training started, 142 of them retested positive. 

 

According to a release from U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command, 640 new recruits arrived at Fort Benning and were medically screened and tested by medical professionals. At the time, four tested positive. All 640 recruits entered a 14-day monitoring period, with the four COVID-positive recruits isolated and properly treated. 

 

After the 14-day monitoring period, training operations began with COVID-19 prevention measures in place including masks and social distancing. Despite these efforts, however, eight days after the end of the 14-day monitoring period, one recruit reported to the chain of command with COVID-19 symptoms. 

 

All 640 recruits -- which form 30th AG Battalion and 2nd Battalion, 29th Infantry Regiment -- were retested for COVID-19. After all 640 tests were returned over a two-day period, that same cohort of recruits had a 22 percent COVID-positive rate with 142 positive tests. 

 

Did an asymptomatic carrier get past the screening (false negative test) maybe?

[BillsFan4]

44 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

not sure your point...calls only for masks when you will be in sustained contact with someone and will be within 6 feet of them for that sustained period of time. To be clear, i have been wearing a mask since mid March. 

 

But the science of mask wearing is not cut and dried..for example wearing them outside seems to make zero sense. Wearing them in a store seems to make little sense based on this article, wearing them anywhere where you will not be in close contact for a sustained period of time seems to make little sense. 

 

Am i reading that wrong?

 

The sheriff was in close contact with people. You posted that article replying to a sheriff who got covid-19 after having close interactions with people while not wearing a mask (and he was outdoors, at least from looking at the video). So I assumed that’s what you were posting that article for and posted the NEJM article that addressed that perspective article you posted. 

 

 

 

https://www.pinalcentral.com/breaking/sheriff-lamb-tests-positive-for-covid-19/article_72e94d2e-852a-57ae-ba90-0cbfafa29284.html

Quote

Video of the event posted June 14 on the Sheriff Lamb Facebook page shows Lamb hugging supporters and posing for photos with fans. No one at the event is wearing a mask, including the sheriff. It appears no social distancing was being followed, either.

 

 

The event where he believe he caught covid-19 appears to have been outdoors.

 

How long was he with each person? A few minutes? I doubt it was 15+ minutes (the amount of time I’ve seen referenced as “sustained close contact”). 

 

 

As far as wearing a mask in a store, i would have linked to other articles/studies if that was what we were discussing. 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by BillsFan4

[The Dean]

5 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

just saying...

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372?fbclid=IwAR1EoJkVn0xxmfBb6RNhasEb2XXM6E2Lr-p7YOMrvMFl9iMBwKPQLl96lIo

 

I mean it is the New England Journal Of Medicine...

 

 

 

 

Did you look at the date on that article? Not only did you simply pick a small section to highlight, it's nearly a month old. The thinking on masks has evolved since that time, due to the SCIENCE involved.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Hey @Hapless Bills Fan did you see this?

 

https://connectingvets.radio.com/articles/fort-benning-confirms-142-covid-19-cases-in-2-battalions

 

“8 days after quarantine and testing negative, 142 Fort Benning soldiers test positive for COVID-19”

 

Did an asymptomatic carrier get past the screening (false negative test) maybe?

 

That would be my guess - some doctors are saying 30% negatives compared to clinical symptoms.   If the swabbing technique isn't good, or the samples aren't properly stored between sampling and testing (without viral culture medium), or if the person has viral titer below the Ct threshold, or if the positive person has the virus hanging out somewhere else (in their GI tract, say), not going to detect. 

 

I don't think China insists on testing throat and stool samples for everyone in quarantine because they like the extra work.

 

Second guess would be that the masks weren't well adhered to during PT.  Benning is on the GA/AL border.  Highs in the mid-90s.  My guess is a lot of masks were being used as chin straps during intense physical activity when exhalations travel furthest.

 

I hope the army does a very good job contact tracing and interviewing because this represents a strong opportunity to learn a lot.

Edit: here's some more detail from the Army's website.  A second episode at Fort LostIntheWoods:

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/06/01/two-army-training-sites-had-210-combined-covid-19-cases-after-recruits-left-controlled-monitoring-phases/
 

2 hours ago, Muppy said:

 

 

And errrr, maybe it should be. 

We seem to be playing catch-up to the "best practice" of countries that are beating this, just saying.
 

[plenzmd1]

7 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

The sheriff was in close contact with people. You posted that article replying to a sheriff who got covid-19 after having close interactions with people while not wearing a mask (and he was outdoors, at least from looking at the video). So I assumed that’s what you were posting that article for and posted the NEJM article that addressed that perspective article you posted. 

 

 

 

https://www.pinalcentral.com/breaking/sheriff-lamb-tests-positive-for-covid-19/article_72e94d2e-852a-57ae-ba90-0cbfafa29284.html

 

 

The event where he believe he caught covid-19 appears to have been outdoors.

 

How long was he with each person? A few minutes? I doubt it was 15+ minutes (the amount of time I’ve seen referenced as “sustained close contact”). 

 

 

As far as wearing a mask in a store, i would have linked to other articles/studies if that was what we were discussing. 

 

if that is the case, we should be seeing an explosion in cases based of the demonstrations.

[BillsFan4]

2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

if that is the case, we should be seeing an explosion in cases based of the demonstrations.

The ones where it looks like a good 80% are in masks? 

 

Edit - and yes, I worry we still could see covid spikes due to the protests. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by BillsFan4

[plenzmd1]

6 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Did you look at the date on that article? Not only did you simply pick a small section to highlight, it's nearly a month old. The thinking on masks has evolved since that time, due to the SCIENCE involved.

I agree science can evolve, but "science" can come to different conclusions.

[The Dean]

5 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I agree science can evolve, but "science" can come to different conclusions.

 

 

Of course. So what do the bulk of very credible scientists believe and espouse currently? I'm talking about those who have the input from many of the other best scientists in the field? (Take Faucci, for example.)

 

I'm not sure looking for outliers (particularly from older data and articles) and using those as your model is an intelligent way to proceed. You can always find conflicting opinions. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by The Dean

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

15 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

No response or rebuttal @Hapless Bills Fan, promised me as much more than 24 hours ago. 

 

 

I think you must have mislaid the PM where you said:

"Hey Hap, I reposted as you requested in the Covid-19 discussion thread.  I realize that you have a life off the board, looking forward to your response when able"

 

I mean, Srsly? Calling me out on thread like I'm supposed to be your on-demand response puppet?  Please take two "get over yourself a bit" and don't call me in the morning.

 

I will respond, but I do have a life, and I don't want to half-ass things.

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

The ones where it looks like a good 80% are in masks? 

and the ones where it looks like 30% are in masks...depends what picture , and who took it. 

 

I am all in on the protests and that wearing a mask, as I have stated been wearing one indoors since late March. But i also understand the opposing point of view. 

 

It is funny how NYC contact tracers are not allowed to ask if one has attended any demonstrations..