Covid-19 discussion and humor thread [Was: CDC says don't touch your face to avoid Covid19...Vets to the rescue!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

I'm saying the aides and Y workers are more interested in practicing social distancing properly, good hygiene, and everything else they can do to keep the enviroment and its occupants safe. (including themselves) Educators, educate.

 

What I mean by that Augie is an aid or Y worker will be focusing on safety.

 

A teacher will be focusing on education.

 

(By no means am I implying any one life is worth more than the other.)

 

On a side note I just learned our biggest senior living facility in our small town of Corry has a Covid 19 outbreak occuring.

 

I'm very sorry to hear about the covid-19 outbreak in your senior living facility.  Wishing them the best luck to contain....

[The Dean]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

They serve the population (kids 1-12) that data show have a lower infection rate and a much lower rate of transmitting infections

 

 

Do we know if children have a lower infection/transmission rate because of something to do with physiological issues, or mainly because they tend to have far fewer interactions  with other people? (I think this is generally fairly true, but I'm thinking during this lockdown period, many kids were probably very limited in interacting freely with others may be important, too.)

 

 

5 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

You do know that some who post this forum have irrational fears of clowns?

 

I wouldn't call a fear of clown irrational.  Clowns are creepy.  ?

 

3 hours ago, Figster said:

 

On a side note I just learned our biggest senior living facility in our small town of Corry has a Covid 19 outbreak occuring.

 

 

Very sorry to hear that. My mother (end stage Alzheimer's) was moved from here ALF into a Nursing Home a few weeks ago. At the time both facilities were locked down and Covid free.  Now the nursing home has 11 positive cases (at last count). Brought in by staff, not patients. Very tough. I haven't been able to see her since early March. Fortunately (I suppose) she has no idea what the hell is going on.

 

[Punching Bag]

Just now, The Dean said:

 

Very sorry to hear that. My mother (end stage Alzheimer's) was moved from here ALF into a Nursing Home a few weeks ago. At the time both facilities were locked down and Covid free.  Now the nursing home has 11 positive cases (at last count). Brought in by staff, not patients. Very tough. I haven't been able to see her since early March. Fortunately (I suppose) she has no idea what the hell is going on.

 

 

Very sad to hear that.  We went to visit my my mother-in-law in Hong Kong last year at prompting of family "Come see her if you want to see her when she is alive". 

She had no idea who my wife was; she thought she was her sister who has never married and has been living with her entire life.  The only recognition she had was for me when I made some noise coming out of bathroom and she remembered an incident when I broke something accidentally in it.  Hong Kong bathrooms are not made for someone my size and clumsy like an Ox.  She actually remembered my name then before the light went out of her eyes.

[BillsFan4]

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/buffalo/politics/2020/07/29/ub-doctors-give-facts-about-hydroxychloroquine-and-covid
‘UB Doctors: Hydroxychloroquine Not Effective Treatment for COVID-19‘

 

Quote

It's been probably more researched than any other drug that we've been evaluating for COVID," UB Division of Infectious Disease Chief Dr. Thomas Russo said.

Russo said the medical community was rooting for hydroxychloroquine to work because it's a generic drug, widely available, and can be taken in pill form.

"It held tremendous promise and we were all excited about the possibility that this could really help us in this battle against  COVID. Unfortunately the preponderance of evidence to this date does not support that," he said.
UB Senior Associate Dean for Clinical Affairs Dr. Kevin Gibbons said early on doctors were treating patients with the drug, but they've since learned more and studies that have suggested it does not work have been more scientifically sound than any that suggest the opposite.
"The best evidence we have is that it's not of benefit. Now the good news is although there are side effects to this medication and there is a cardiac risk factor for sudden death from arrhythmias, the incidents of that actually appear to be quite low," Gibbons said.

 

Quote

Russo said the study also doesn't support hydroxychloroquine as a preventive drug. He said people should be cynical of testimonials from doctors or patients they see online.

"Anecdotal and testimonial medicine is medicine of the 50s and 60s," he said. "That is no longer the way we practice medicine."

Gibbons said with a novel disease, scientists will continue to study and learn more and yes, the medical opinion on hydroxychloroquine could change again, but it seems unlikely.

He reiterated it would be "great if it demonstrated safety and efficacy" for coronavirus, but that efficacy appears to be lacking and he would not personally prescribe it to patients.

 

[The Dean]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

Very sad to hear that.  We went to visit my my mother-in-law in Hong Kong last year at prompting of family "Come see her if you want to see her when she is alive". 

She had no idea who my wife was; she thought she was her sister who has never married and has been living with her entire life.  The only recognition she had was for me when I made some noise coming out of bathroom and she remembered an incident when I broke something accidentally in it.  Hong Kong bathrooms are not made for someone my size and clumsy like an Ox.  She actually remembered my name then before the light went out of her eyes.

 

 

Wow. Very sad. But that one moment must have made it all worthwhile. 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, The Dean said:

 

Wow. Very sad. But that one moment must have made it all worthwhile. 

 

 

Unfortunately for my wife despite visiting her for 2 weeks she never got that moment.

Six months later she is in hospital and she cannot return home for she cannot swallow and ends up dying there where she never wanted to die.

[The Dean]

28 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Unfortunately for my wife despite visiting her for 2 weeks she never got that moment.

Six months later she is in hospital and she cannot return home for she cannot swallow and ends up dying there where she never wanted to die.

 

 

Sucks for sure.

 

My mother had an aunt who suffered a stroke. They lived in Steubenville, OH (or possibly Weirton, WV).  We'd visit every year. The aunt would go smile/cry/get very excited to see my father. She never seemed to recognize my mother, or many other people for that matter. I'm sure it bothered my mother, but she never showed it. 

[Figster]

7 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

Do we know if children have a lower infection/transmission rate because of something to do with physiological issues, or mainly because they tend to have far fewer interactions  with other people? (I think this is generally fairly true, but I'm thinking during this lockdown period, many kids were probably very limited in interacting freely with others may be important, too.)

 

 

 

I wouldn't call a fear of clown irrational.  Clowns are creepy.  ?

 

 

Very sorry to hear that. My mother (end stage Alzheimer's) was moved from here ALF into a Nursing Home a few weeks ago. At the time both facilities were locked down and Covid free.  Now the nursing home has 11 positive cases (at last count). Brought in by staff, not patients. Very tough. I haven't been able to see her since early March. Fortunately (I suppose) she has no idea what the hell is going on.

 

Not being able to see and spend time with your mom right now has got to be really hard on you. I'm so sorry to hear. 

 

From what I understand our outbreak was also brought in by a staff member. I heard 5 positive cases earlier Wed afternoon through the grapeveine then 8 on the news a little later. So I'm assuming 8 positive cases ( at last count ) Corry's small, everyone knows everyone. Almost everyone that lives here probably knows someone at the manor. I have a cousin that works there. A friends mom also works there. 

 

Not good...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Figster said:

Not being able to see and spend time with your mom right now has got to be really hard on you. I'm so sorry to hear. 

 

From what I understand our outbreak was also brought in by a staff member. I heard 5 positive cases earlier Wed afternoon through the grapeveine then 8 on the news a little later. So I'm assuming 8 positive cases ( at last count ) Corry's small, everyone knows everyone. Almost everyone that lives here probably knows someone at the manor. I have a cousin that works there. A friends mom also works there. 

 

Not good...

 

This same happened in the nursing home where my good friend's ( 'Major Brother's') dad lives.  Facility locked down to visitors in mid-March.  Covid exposures were communicated to families in late April.  It came in with staff.  It had no other path.  90 residents, 66 contracted covid-19, 26 died (4-5 still in hospital I believe).

 

That's probably an untactful  story but my point is that even for the elderly, remember that covid-19 is not a death sentence....the majority do live.

 

This is the flaw in the argument of those who don't want to wear masks and see businesses that have been linked to outbreaks shut down:  "vulnerable people should just stay home".  The problem is the most vulnerable - the elderly - are already 100% staying home, locked away from family and friends, all excursions and outings cancelled (no, these are NOT all people who were going to "die in a few months anyway"), and suffering mentally (feeling abandoned).

 

And yet, when community spread is ongoing, the virus will inevitably find its way inside such homes.

 

We could make it harder for the virus to get to them with mandatory 3x/week rapid-turn-around testing of all nursing home and residential facility caregivers and ensuring they all have ample supplies of the best PPE.  This action alone would probably cut our hospitalization use by 30-50% (since these may be the people who get sickest and stay hospitalized longest) and the death rate by 42% (the average % of deaths in US that came from nursing homes.  It would overall save Medicaid and Medicare a butt-ton of money but supplying PPE to these places isn't their look-out, I guess.

I have not hugged my 88 year old mom since March 13.  I have visited her twice at a 10 ft distance, outside, and talked to her a couple of times through a screen window the facility makes available (she's very hard of hearing so that doesn't work too well).  We look at each other and mime hugs when we drop off groceries.

Yeah I get peeved when I hear about "I don't want to wear a mask so you vulnerable folks stay home".  It's just ignorant, someone who doesn't think through exactly what that means and how that will work logistically.  Even people who are younger and healthier but belong to high risk groups, need groceries and other necessities even if they can work from home (and many can't).

[Augie]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This same happened in the nursing home where my good friend's ( 'Major Brother's') dad lives.  Facility locked down to visitors in mid-March.  Covid exposures were communicated to families in late April.  It came in with staff.  It had no other path.  90 residents, 66 contracted covid-19, 26 died (4-5 still in hospital I believe).  This was considered a good outcome, actually.

 

This is the flaw in the argument of those who don't want to wear masks and see businesses that have been linked to outbreaks shut down:  "vulnerable people should just stay home".  The problem is the most vulnerable - the elderly - are already 100% staying home, locked away from family and friends, all excursions and outings cancelled (no, these are NOT all people who were going to "die in a few months anyway"). 

 

 And yet, when community spread is ongoing, the virus will inevitably find its way inside. 

 

We could make it harder for the virus to get to them with mandatory 3x/week rapid-turn-around testing of all nursing home and residential facility caregivers and ensuring they all have ample supplies of the best PPE.  This action alone would probably cut our hospitalization use by 30-50% (since these may be the people who get sickest and stay hospitalized longest) and the death rate by 42% (the average % of deaths in US that came from nursing homes.

 

My mother’s facility has been extremely cautious. Then, word comes out that a temporary (one day!) security guard who was there only to fill in on July 4th tested positive. So far, so good as far as I know, but all it takes is one little crack, the virus gets in, then all hell can break loose. A lot of people were holding their breath praying for the best. A true “no news is good news” scenario. 

 

 

EDIT: My 92 year old mother now forwarding an email reporting two residents tested positive and are being treated off site. Praying this doesn’t spread like wild fire. She’s said for years that she would die this year because her mother and grandmother both died at the age of 92. Hoping and praying we can prove her wrong! 

 

I typed that as watching the news that Herman Cain just died after contracting Covid......9 days after attending a Trump rally he felt was safe. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Augie

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Unfortunately for my wife despite visiting her for 2 weeks she never got that moment.

Six months later she is in hospital and she cannot return home for she cannot swallow and ends up dying there where she never wanted to die.

 

I'm sorry, Limeaid

[Punching Bag]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm sorry, Limeaid

 

I am too. Still sad and have a picture up of her.  She was not your typical mother-in-law who son-in-law makes jokes on.  She actually got along with my mother well (we brought her to Hong Kong for her sister's wedding who she met).  I actually married into my wife's family rather than her marrying into my family as Chinese tradition is and she called me "her American son".

[Hapless Bills Fan]

58 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

My mother’s facility has been extremely cautious. Then, word comes out that a temporary (one day!) security guard who was there only to fill in on July 4th tested positive. So far, so good as far as I know, but all it takes is one little crack, the virus gets in, then all hell can break loose. A lot of people were holding their breath praying for the best. A true “no news is good news” scenario. 

 

Yes, exactly.  If all the staff is careful about PPE, especially masking and hand washing precautions, it can theoretically be controlled.  But it only takes one person whose mask doesn't fit properly and slips down off their nose all the time, or one group of staff who feel they should chin-strap their masks to chat each other up in the hallways, and who are positive through community spread.

 

Add in that still, if the staff don't work they do not get paid and the motivation to conceal exposure or even symptoms is there. (the Families First act, amazingly enough, exempts nursing homes and small hospitals from providing sick or isolation pay and quarantine pay to employees.)

 

[The Poojer]

Dean I am sorry to hear that.  Even though she probably doesn't know what's going on, it's got to be brutal on you to not be able to see her.

 

17 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

Very sorry to hear that. My mother (end stage Alzheimer's) was moved from here ALF into a Nursing Home a few weeks ago. At the time both facilities were locked down and Covid free.  Now the nursing home has 11 positive cases (at last count). Brought in by staff, not patients. Very tough. I haven't been able to see her since early March. Fortunately (I suppose) she has no idea what the hell is going on.

 

[The Dean]

55 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

My mother’s facility has been extremely cautious. Then, word comes out that a temporary (one day!) security guard who was there only to fill in on July 4th tested positive. So far, so good as far as I know, but all it takes is one little crack, the virus gets in, then all hell can break loose. A lot of people were holding their breath praying for the best. A true “no news is good news” scenario. 

 

My mother's new facility is locked down like a freaking prison. There is a check in tent at the front door for staff. Deliveries need to be left there and checked. My mother's hospice nurses can only come in for very specific reasons, and they must wear a full PPE suit. The virus still found a way to get in through asymptomatic staff.

[Figster]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This same happened in the nursing home where my good friend's ( 'Major Brother's') dad lives.  Facility locked down to visitors in mid-March.  Covid exposures were communicated to families in late April.  It came in with staff.  It had no other path.  90 residents, 66 contracted covid-19, 26 died (4-5 still in hospital I believe).

 

That's probably an untactful  story but my point is that even for the elderly, remember that covid-19 is not a death sentence....the majority do live.

 

This is the flaw in the argument of those who don't want to wear masks and see businesses that have been linked to outbreaks shut down:  "vulnerable people should just stay home".  The problem is the most vulnerable - the elderly - are already 100% staying home, locked away from family and friends, all excursions and outings cancelled (no, these are NOT all people who were going to "die in a few months anyway"), and suffering mentally (feeling abandoned).

 

And yet, when community spread is ongoing, the virus will inevitably find its way inside such homes.

 

We could make it harder for the virus to get to them with mandatory 3x/week rapid-turn-around testing of all nursing home and residential facility caregivers and ensuring they all have ample supplies of the best PPE.  This action alone would probably cut our hospitalization use by 30-50% (since these may be the people who get sickest and stay hospitalized longest) and the death rate by 42% (the average % of deaths in US that came from nursing homes.  It would overall save Medicaid and Medicare a butt-ton of money but supplying PPE to these places isn't their look-out, I guess.

I have not hugged my 88 year old mom since March 13.  I have visited her twice at a 10 ft distance, outside, and talked to her a couple of times through a screen window the facility makes available (she's very hard of hearing so that doesn't work too well).  We look at each other and mime hugs when we drop off groceries.

Yeah I get peeved when I hear about "I don't want to wear a mask so you vulnerable folks stay home".  It's just ignorant, someone who doesn't think through exactly what that means and how that will work logistically.  Even people who are younger and healthier but belong to high risk groups, need groceries and other necessities even if they can work from home (and many can't).

A hug can go a long ways for someone both physically and mentally IMO. Millions of people missing precious time with loved ones they can never get back.

 

All the freedoms our country gives us is making it next to impossible to enforce even the simplest things that could protect us. We will never get everyone to wear a mask. Or stop large gatherings from occuring. People are allowed to protest even in a pandemic. In many instances the protesting will turn into rioting. More uncontrolled spread of Covid 19. I still watch neighbors around me in smaller gatherings. Nobody wears a mask. I'm not sure how a bunch of small gatherings is much different then a large one. Our whole country is crying for help and we don't have the solidarity or strong leadership to do anything about it.

 

 this is so depressing...  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, Figster said:

A hug can go a long ways for someone both physically and mentally IMO. Millions of people missing precious time with loved ones they can never get back.

 

All the freedoms our country gives us is making it next to impossible to enforce even the simplest things that could protect us. We will never get everyone to wear a mask. Or stop large gatherings from occuring. People are allowed to protest even in a pandemic. In many instances the protesting will turn into rioting. More uncontrolled spread of Covid 19. I still watch neighbors around me in smaller gatherings. Nobody wears a mask. I'm not sure how a bunch of small gatherings is much different then a large one. Our whole country is crying for help and we don't have the solidarity or strong leadership to do anything about it.

 

 this is so depressing...  

 

On the "small gathering" vs "large gathering": if someone has covid-19, and the gathering is unmasked/undistanced, a small gathering can most definitely cause spread. 

 

There's a case in Ohio where 4 people - a family, and a family friend - drove to the lake.  The friend had covid.  The illness has now spread to 2 of the 3 family members, two people at the father's business (father in ICU), a caregiver of the mom's 90 year old mother, another of the caregivers patients with additional people quarantined.  This is how it is.  People be like all "oh, almost no young people die, a lot don't even have symptoms" but that's how it spreads.  Then it winds up with a father in the ICU, caregivers getting sick and possibly spreading it to elderly patients, etc etc.

Where the large gathering comes from, though, is in the probability that at least one person at the gathering will have covid-19.  I think I put this up on the "Facts" thread:

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

 

If you look at Erie County, pick 5x ascertainment bias (due to the low positivity rate on testing, 1.3% means hopefully getting most cases, may be an overestimate) and zoom in on Erie County, a gathering of 1000 people has a probability of 95% that it will have at least one covid-19 infected person.  A gathering of 100 has a 25% chance of having at least one covid-19 infected person.   And a gathering of 10 people has a 3% chance.  Of course, that's assuming that behavior is random and everyone in the population has about equal chance of being infected.

Now if we go to St Charles County, MO and pick 10x (12%-ish positive tests right now, may be an underestimate), a gathering of 10 people has a 30% chance to include at least one covid-19 infected person, and a gathering of 50 has an 82% chance, 100 has a 97% chance, and 1000 is a virtual lock.

Anyway, that's the rationale behind limiting gathering sizes or restaurant capacities to different levels.

[Buffalo_Gal]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This same happened in the nursing home where my good friend's ( 'Major Brother's') dad lives.  Facility locked down to visitors in mid-March.  Covid exposures were communicated to families in late April.  It came in with staff.  It had no other path.  90 residents, 66 contracted covid-19, 26 died (4-5 still in hospital I believe).

 

That's probably an untactful  story but my point is that even for the elderly, remember that covid-19 is not a death sentence....the majority do live.

 

This is the flaw in the argument of those who don't want to wear masks and see businesses that have been linked to outbreaks shut down:  "vulnerable people should just stay home".  The problem is the most vulnerable - the elderly - are already 100% staying home, locked away from family and friends, all excursions and outings cancelled (no, these are NOT all people who were going to "die in a few months anyway"), and suffering mentally (feeling abandoned).

 

And yet, when community spread is ongoing, the virus will inevitably find its way inside such homes.

 

We could make it harder for the virus to get to them with mandatory 3x/week rapid-turn-around testing of all nursing home and residential facility caregivers and ensuring they all have ample supplies of the best PPE.  This action alone would probably cut our hospitalization use by 30-50% (since these may be the people who get sickest and stay hospitalized longest) and the death rate by 42% (the average % of deaths in US that came from nursing homes.  It would overall save Medicaid and Medicare a butt-ton of money but supplying PPE to these places isn't their look-out, I guess.

I have not hugged my 88 year old mom since March 13.  I have visited her twice at a 10 ft distance, outside, and talked to her a couple of times through a screen window the facility makes available (she's very hard of hearing so that doesn't work too well).  We look at each other and mime hugs when we drop off groceries.

Yeah I get peeved when I hear about "I don't want to wear a mask so you vulnerable folks stay home".  It's just ignorant, someone who doesn't think through exactly what that means and how that will work logistically.  Even people who are younger and healthier but belong to high risk groups, need groceries and other necessities even if they can work from home (and many can't).

My father's nursing home finally opened for visits last week. 30 minute sessions per resident, once per week, limit of 2 people a visit. If it rains, no visit (it is outside, and even though we offered to purchase tents or awnings for the facility, we were turned down).  There is no touching. Social distancing needs to be maintained (although with masks). I go in next week with my mother.

His nursing home has had several positive cases, brought in by the staff over the last 4.5 months.

If any of the residents go out for a doctor's appointment, they must self-quarantine for two weeks.

The deaths that will come later will be exponential the virus.  People have delayed specialist care (for months it was not allowed in his nursing home). The stories of the cognitive decline of residents who have had no outside contact the last 4.5 months are heart breaking.

This has been horrible, with no good solution. China has much to answer for.
 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

My father's nursing home finally opened for visits last week. 30 minute sessions per resident, once per week, limit of 2 people a visit. If it rains, no visit (it is outside, and even though we offered to purchase tents or awnings for the facility, we were turned down).  There is no touching. Social distancing needs to be maintained (although with masks). I go in next week with my mother.

 

Good luck, I hope you have a good visit!

 

Where are you that specialist care has been disallowed?  Dr visits are allowed at mom's home, and specialist care is available.

 

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

This has been horrible, with no good solution. China has much to answer for.

 

@Buffalo_Gal, the virus origin appears to be China.  But when many countries much closer to China, shared borders, citizens working there etc - and many European countries that had big outbreaks have brought it under control... I just don't see how one can finger-point China.  We could have been Taiwan, or S. Korea, or Germany, or Switzerland, or Austria.  They all had outbreaks originating from China as well.

[Bad Things]

33 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

 China has much to answer for.
 

?

Yup... don't accept any responsibility.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Bad Things

[Buffalo_Gal]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

@Buffalo_Gal, the virus origin appears to be China.  But when many countries much closer to China, shared borders, citizens working there etc - and many European countries that had big outbreaks have brought it under control... I just don't see how one can finger-point China.  We could have been Taiwan, or S. Korea, or Germany, or Switzerland, or Austria.  They all had outbreaks originating from China as well.

<backs slowly out of the thread>
 
Although, I do thank you for the well wishes.

[Figster]

On 7/30/2020 at 3:51 AM, Figster said:

Not being able to see and spend time with your mom right now has got to be really hard on you. I'm so sorry to hear. 

 

From what I understand our outbreak was also brought in by a staff member. I heard 5 positive cases earlier Wed afternoon through the grapeveine then 8 on the news a little later. So I'm assuming 8 positive cases ( at last count ) Corry's small, everyone knows everyone. Almost everyone that lives here probably knows someone at the manor. I have a cousin that works there. A friends mom also works there. 

 

Not good...

Update : A reliable source is telling me 15 cases testng positive so far and our local hospital has been compromised. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Figster

[ChevyVanMiller]

[KD in CA]

Bill Maher has a point.......one that his usual fans will likely ignore.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, Figster said:

Update : A reliable source is telling me 15 cases testng positive so far and our local hospital has been compromised. 

 

I'm so sorry.  What does it mean in this context to say "our local hospital has been compromised"?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, KD in CA said:

Bill Maher has a point.......one that his usual fans will likely ignore.

 

 

 

The risk varies, but it's clearly there.  Recent Nature study from a NY hospital, 504 patients found relative risk  of 1.3 overall (1.4 for men, 1.2 for women) for obese patients and 1.4 overall for overweight patients (interesting that the increased risk was higher for overweight vs obese- whatcha think that means?). 
-the study attempted to control for hypertension and diabetes, but such attempts can be problematic if the number in a group who are neither is small

-A relative risk of 1.2 (20% increased risk) is usually considered borderline for significance. 

-Overall, 43% of the patients in the study died (this was a covid-only hospital at the time, and those admitted were all very very sick)

-37% of those who were neither overweight nor obese died (41/139 patients)

-54% of those who were overweight died (81/150 patients)

-40% of those who were obese died. (87/215 patients)

It's certainly a valid point that personal risk reduction is something we can control, and that improved personal health - weight reduction among it - is something for which everyone could strive.  But as to why health leadership hasn't made a campaign of it: I can think of several pretty important and relevant reasons.

 

Curious what your take would be on why it would be good idea to push such a message? 

Perspective on BMI etc:

BMI >40 means a 5'8" individual weighing 262 lbs. 

To lose weight to a BMI <35, such a person has to weigh 235 lbs or less; at the recommended weight loss rate of 1-2 lbs per week, this would require 14-27 weeks. 

No longer obese: BMI <30 196 lbs or less; weight loss would require 33-66 weeks.

No longer overweight: BMI <25 163 lbs or less; weight loss would require 50-100 weeks.

 

I may say more but I'll sleep on it first. 

 

Fair warning: I think this is a valid point worth discussing, but I won't allow this thread to devolve into some kind of fat-shaming or finger-pointing festival.  We have a "gentle reader" in another thread expressing the beautiful empathetic sentiment " its the fattys/sickys who spent a lifetime trashing trashing their bodies that need to worry", a sentiment which the 41/139 non-overweight or obese patients described in the linked study are no longer with us to contest.

[KD in CA]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Curious what your take would be on why it would be good idea to push such a message? 

 

I agree there's isn't much value in just going right to fat shaming and this is off topic, but yeah, we need healthier food and healthier attitudes about fitness and diet.

 

There are a whole bunch of reasons why we've let this slip so badly, from laziness to greed to political correctness.

[Figster]

On 8/1/2020 at 2:17 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm so sorry.  What does it mean in this context to say "our local hospital has been compromised"?

I'm assuming it to mean someone that works at the hospital also tested positive along with the two staff members from Corry Manor. Don't quote me on it though, I'm hearing this 2nd hand without details. (It could be a patient) Our local hospital is not supposed to be handling anything Covid 19 related.  Two staff members from Corry manor and 4 residents is how the story originally broke in our local newspaper.  Our small city of Corry has been lucky so far up until now holding at 6 positive cases for over a month. We went from 6 to 24 in just a few days.  Corry has a population of about 6,000.

 

Update: 29 testing positive to date in Corry. 18 so far from the manor.  I'm also sad to say we have 2 deaths so far from the Corry manor. Their cause of death has not been released to the public. One of them was an old friend of my moms. My cousin from the manor (staff) is still waiting for her test results. 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Figster

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

I agree there's isn't much value in just going right to fat shaming and this is off topic, but yeah, we need healthier food and healthier attitudes about fitness and diet.

 

There are a whole bunch of reasons why we've let this slip so badly, from laziness to greed to political correctness.

 

So my take on Bill Mather's spiel:

 

1) it's clear that overwhelmingly, by far the biggest risk factor for serious covid-19 disease or death is one that we can't control at all: Age

2) because of this, and various other narratives making the rounds that focus on death rate as the gauge of severity, younger people (and I dont mean kids - just people younger than 60 or 65) are all-too-ready to dismiss the principal risk of covid-19

3) which is, IMO,

a) the number of cases that become serious and require hospitalization.  Now that we know how many asymptomatic cases there are, this number is clearly lower than the 25% which was believed to be the case during the initial outbreaks in China and Italy, but whether it's 6% or 16% it's clearly enough to overwhelm hospitals and medical care in any locale where the disease begins to spread unimpeded.  Once the hospitals and medical systems become overwhelmed, the case fatality rate rises and becomes higher than it needs to be and

b) the difficulty of protecting the most vulnerable - the elderly, who may be living with younger people who must work, or else in congregate facilities that are vulnerable to staff introduction and spread (and once this happens, once again, the case fatality rate rises and becomes higher than it needs to be

As for fat, You're Right: we badly need healthier food and healthier choices, and a number of messages pushed at the government level were probably very mistaken.  We also badly need health care to control high blood pressure and pre-diabetes before they have serious effects.  These things have soared, especially in areas where health care coverage and access are limited.  But yeah, off topic here, except to note that reining these things in would have huge benefits in handling the next pandemic as well as the more concrete and prosaic decrease in overall health care and disability costs.

[TBBills]

On 8/1/2020 at 12:12 PM, ChevyVanMiller said:

Food poisoning... So basically she saying she wants to chew peanuts and spit them in the face of people with peanut allergies b.c FREEDOM.

 

I don't think people understand freedom. You have a responsibility to protect others also under this freedom and if that means wearing a mask when I am in a store buying something it's not a problem. Freedom means nothing when you're selfish.

Edited August 2, 2020 by TBBills

[The Dean]

6 hours ago, TBBills said:

Food poisoning... So basically she saying she wants to chew peanuts and spit them in the face of people with peanut allergies b.c FREEDOM.

 

I don't think people understand freedom. You have a responsibility to protect others also under this freedom and if that means wearing a mask when I am in a store buying something it's not a problem. Freedom means nothing when you're selfish.

 

You do understand that is written as satire, right?

[TBBills]

10 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

You do understand that is written as satire, right?

You never know anymore.

[BillsFan4]

 

[BillsFan4]

https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-events/research-brief-new-study-explores-how-coronavirus-travels-indoors
Research Brief: New study explores how coronavirus travels indoors
 

interesting read.

[teef]

anyone struggling to figure out schooling?  it's shocking how many different models there are per district, and per grade.  some are part time for all levels, (2 days in, 3 days at home).  some are 5 days full time for elementary.  my nephew's district is 5 half days for elementary.  some are trying to go complete remote learning.  it's incredible to how all over the place this is.

[Seasons1992]

34 minutes ago, teef said:

anyone struggling to figure out schooling?  it's shocking how many different models there are per district, and per grade.  some are part time for all levels, (2 days in, 3 days at home).  some are 5 days full time for elementary.  my nephew's district is 5 half days for elementary.  some are trying to go complete remote learning.  it's incredible to how all over the place this is.

 

My kids (two) will be on the same day for ease of transport and planning, 2 days in spaced apart, 3 days at home. Me and their mom agreed this is the best option and our district allowed it to be voted on by the parents.

[BillsFan4]

36 minutes ago, teef said:

anyone struggling to figure out schooling?  it's shocking how many different models there are per district, and per grade.  some are part time for all levels, (2 days in, 3 days at home).  some are 5 days full time for elementary.  my nephew's district is 5 half days for elementary.  some are trying to go complete remote learning.  it's incredible to how all over the place this is.

I (thankfully) don’t have any kids in school, but talking with friends and family in multiple different counties and states, plans definitely seem to be all over the place.

Like my friend near Rochester, their school is likely going with a hybrid plan - 2 days in class 3 days remote (or vise versa, can’t remember). They have detailed guidelines and require the kids to wear masks at all times.

 

My cousin who teaches elementary school upstate, her school is having the kids at school 5 days a week. They have to wear masks entering the school but are allowed to take them off once they sit at their desk. She’s very worried about this, to say the least.

 

[teef]

22 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

My kids (two) will be on the same day for ease of transport and planning, 2 days in spaced apart, 3 days at home. Me and their mom agreed this is the best option and our district allowed it to be voted on by the parents.

 

11 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I (thankfully) don’t have any kids in school, but talking with friends and family in multiple different counties and states, plans definitely seem to be all over the place.

Like my friend near Rochester, their school is likely going with a hybrid plan - 2 days in class 3 days remote (or vise versa, can’t remember). They have detailed guidelines and require the kids to wear masks at all times.

 

My cousin who teaches elementary school upstate, her school is having the kids at school 5 days a week. They have to wear masks entering the school but are allowed to take them off once they sit at their desk. She’s very worried about this, to say the least.

 

our district has the same set up.  two days in and three days at home.  it seems to be the elementary schools that are the only ones to consider the 5 days.  our daughter is going into kindergarten, so i don't know how the three days at home is going to work.  we're 90% we'll have to send her private.  we do want her in school more than 2 days, but we both work full time, and have no idea who care will work out otherwise.  it's actually cheaper to send her to a 5 day a week private school than it is back to daycare, (they're starting a kindergarten program to help parents out).

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/flight-ibiza-klm-face-mask-fight-british-amsterdam-a9650261.html

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, teef said:

anyone struggling to figure out schooling?  it's shocking how many different models there are per district, and per grade.  some are part time for all levels, (2 days in, 3 days at home).  some are 5 days full time for elementary.  my nephew's district is 5 half days for elementary.  some are trying to go complete remote learning.  it's incredible to how all over the place this is.

 

I think the school distracts are struggling to figure it out *ducking*

 

Seriously, it's a problem.  My friend from Big Pharma is working from home these days but he can't work and teach.  His wife, a preschool teacher, decided to quit her job to stay home and supervise the video learning/supplement.  They have the salary to consider doing that.