Dante Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 43 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Bear Bryant and Kobe Bryant both died on January 26th.....37 years apart. If it was (Masonic) 33 years apart I would be freaked out. This is kinda strange https://1430kasi.iheart.com/content/2020-01-27-2016-cartoon-predicting-kobes-helicopter-crash-pulled-by-comedy-central/ And this one https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/more-sports/others/eight-year-old-tweet-predicting-kobe-bryants-death-in-a-helicopter-crash-goes-viral-but-is-it-real/articleshow/73671049.cms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Seasons1992 said: As someone who is for some reason, fascinated with studying air-vehicle crashes and the causes, I believe initially this was 100% pilot error based on the debris field and the reported speed. I think he was disoriented and lost visual markers for the hillsides. Yep. I think he was turning around to get back to some visibility, from the area he just came from. But spatial disorientation took over on the turn, and he lost altitude quickly, slamming into the hill. He was flying a copter, why couldn't he just hover for a couple mins while re-gaining his bearings?...maybe get higher to speak with ATC. The pilot probably did hundreds of flights around the LA basin and was overconfident, I dunno. Just can't imagine those kinds of high speeds in thick low level fog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Seasons1992 said: As someone who is for some reason, fascinated with studying air-vehicle crashes and the causes, I believe initially this was 100% pilot error based on the debris field and the reported speed. I think he was disoriented and lost visual markers for the hillsides. I understand there is fascination with this kind of thing, and offering views on it on this forum is a harmless exercise. Still, having been in this industry for 45 years, it has always been my experience that waiting until accurate data is available is always far wiser than guessing based on sketchy, incomplete information. As an example, there are quite a few likely errors in this thread. Not important, not intentional, but errors. In addition, the "data" that is being put out by media outlets quite often is not qualified by stating that it is ADSB data, which could be wrong. As well, the sound bites they keep playing from LA law enforcement people about their 800'/2 mile vis requirement that they use has nothing to do with what this guy was doing, or any other aviation operation for that matter. This time of year, the LA basin weather conditions can vary tremendously in a very short geographic area based on temp, dew point, the position of the marine layer, etc. Many times LAX will be require Category 2 or 3 landings, which permit extremely low visibility, (down to 300' visibility and 0' ceiling), and 15 miles east of there will be beautiful. NTSB will do their thing and everyone will know. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Seeking Redemption is the sign of a brave man......... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 31 minutes ago, sherpa said: I understand there is fascination with this kind of thing, and offering views on it on this forum is a harmless exercise. Still, having been in this industry for 45 years, it has always been my experience that waiting until accurate data is available is always far wiser than guessing based on sketchy, incomplete information. As an example, there are quite a few likely errors in this thread. Not important, not intentional, but errors. In addition, the "data" that is being put out by media outlets quite often is not qualified by stating that it is ADSB data, which could be wrong. As well, the sound bites they keep playing from LA law enforcement people about their 800'/2 mile vis requirement that they use has nothing to do with what this guy was doing, or any other aviation operation for that matter. This time of year, the LA basin weather conditions can vary tremendously in a very short geographic area based on temp, dew point, the position of the marine layer, etc. Many times LAX will be require Category 2 or 3 landings, which permit extremely low visibility, (down to 300' visibility and 0' ceiling), and 15 miles east of there will be beautiful. NTSB will do their thing and everyone will know. That's totally fair and is a good professional statement about this accident. But for us keyboard air disaster amateurs, this looks like CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) and was due to the thick fog conditions at that time and location. Lot's of other factors led to the chain of events that doomed them (and the NTSB will expertly sort it out)..., but if there was no fog layer, Kobe, his daughter and the other families would still be alive IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 hours ago, zow2 said: That's totally fair and is a good professional statement about this accident. But for us keyboard air disaster amateurs, this looks like CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) and was due to the thick fog conditions at that time and location. Lot's of other factors led to the chain of events that doomed them (and the NTSB will expertly sort it out)..., but if there was no fog layer, Kobe, his daughter and the other families would still be alive IMO. 4 hours ago, zow2 said: Yep. I think he was turning around to get back to some visibility, from the area he just came from. But spatial disorientation took over on the turn, and he lost altitude quickly, slamming into the hill. He was flying a copter, why couldn't he just hover for a couple mins while re-gaining his bearings?...maybe get higher to speak with ATC. The pilot probably did hundreds of flights around the LA basin and was overconfident, I dunno. Just can't imagine those kinds of high speeds in thick low level fog. Zow, just be aware that a few posts apart you have given two different, and contradictory, explanations of the accident - controlled flight into terrain, by its definition of being "controlled", does not involve turning around or spatial disorientation. On the other hand, a pilot suffering from spatial disorientation, by the definition of spatial disorientation and all that it entails, is not able to control an aircraft and hover, get higher, turn around, or conduct any other controlled flight maneuver, including controlled flight into terrain (which by definition entails, well, control). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Jax Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 The large debris field sure seems to back up the high rate of descent (and accompanying high speed) into the hillside. The radar data I saw also showed a steep climb while in a left turn to the south, and then another left turn back to the east, and that's when they crashed. It must have been pure hell for the passengers in that descent, knowing that their death was imminent. And it must be very difficult for the folks who have to recover the bodies (body parts?) from the scene. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 7 hours ago, T&C said: This article is from earlier this morning: https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/ap-online/2020/01/28/pilot-of-bryant-helicopter-tried-to-avoid-heavy-fog What really caught my eye was this part: "Details of what followed are still under investigation but there are indications that the helicopter plunged some 1,000 feet (305 meters). It was flying at about 184 mph (296 kph) and descending at a rate of more than 4,000 feet per minute when it struck the ground, according to data from Flightradar24." That strikes me as an insane rate of speed in foggy conditions. This is the main reason I feel like some sort of equipment failure has to be involved given that sounds like the it was falling out of the sky more than being "flown" that way. But I am not aviation expert by any means, just how it reads to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&C Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 37 minutes ago, John in Jax said: The large debris field sure seems to back up the high rate of descent (and accompanying high speed) into the hillside. The radar data I saw also showed a steep climb while in a left turn to the south, and then another left turn back to the east, and that's when they crashed. It must have been pure hell for the passengers in that descent, knowing that their death was imminent. And it must be very difficult for the folks who have to recover the bodies (body parts?) from the scene. You are right... pure fear, it must have been horrible, can't even imagine it. From what I've read though their deaths were instant so there was no suffering. Also looks like all of the bodies have been recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said: This is the main reason I feel like some sort of equipment failure has to be involved given that sounds like the it was falling out of the sky more than being "flown" that way. But I am not aviation expert by any means, just how it reads to me. I’m not sure where your thoughts come from, almost every board I have read blames the pilot. The heli boards are much harsher on the pilot. IMO this place has been kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, CommonCents said: I’m not sure where your thoughts come from, almost every board I have read blames the pilot. The heli boards are much harsher on the pilot. IMO this place has been kind. Like I said, I am no aviation expert by any means. But my thoughts come from what I was commenting on earlier. Based on what data showed, it seems like the helicopter might have been falling (instead of flying) given its rate decent at time of crash. If that’s true, then equipment failure would be a distinct possibility I would assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 TNT right now. ?. Poor Shaq. For the cheap shots at him in this thread, he called Kobe the greatest Laker ever. Shaq looks rough, just lost his sister recently too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZBILLS Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Just now, CommonCents said: Shaq looks rough, just lost his sister recently He's a good one. Poor Shaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) This TNT show is the saddest... I can’t imagine what the funeral/memorial service will be like. Wonder if they have his and GiGi’s together. Not sure there is any good answer for his wife and daughters when it comes to that. Edited January 29, 2020 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: This is the main reason I feel like some sort of equipment failure has to be involved given that sounds like the it was falling out of the sky more than being "flown" that way. But I am not aviation expert by any means, just how it reads to me. If you listen to the radio conversation between the pilot and air traffic control there was no indication of any mechanical issues going on. Seemed like pretty calm and I guess routine banter until it went silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: This TNT show is the saddest... I can’t imagine what the funeral/memorial service will be like. Wonder if they have his and GiGi’s together. Not sure there is any good answer for his wife and daughters when it comes to that. Emo tearful shaq is heavy ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: Emo tearful shaq is heavy ???? Yeah that was hard man watching him talk and go through his emotions and other losses. CP3 IG message was hard to read too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 TMac taking it hard as well Lost a real one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dante said: If you listen to the radio conversation between the pilot and air traffic control there was no indication of any mechanical issues going on. Seemed like pretty calm and I guess routine banter until it went silent. Yeah, thats a fair point too. A friend of mind brought the notion of what if something happened to the pilot, like a stroke or heart attack and it just all happened so fast? What if he lost consciousness almost immediately? A close friend almost died a couple years ago when he was driving and had sudden cardiac arrest causing him to immediately lose consciousness and his car go off the road and hit a sign. He got lucky there was an off duty officer who witnessed it and got to him immediately and resuscitated him. He ended up having a 2nd bout of full cardiac arrest as he was being loaded into the ambulance and took a couple days before he woke. Looked bleak until then as they had no idea yet if he suffered brain damage or the extent of the damage if so. Turns out, the off duty officer being there ended up being the difference between life and death. So yeah, thats a good point you make, but the descent also still seems awfully like the helicopter was out of control and falling from the sky. They also seemed to hit a relatively flat part of ground at the elevation they were at as opposed to flying into an edge of a mountain. Feels like either his instruments failed him, some kind of equipment failure, or maybe something just suddenly happened to the pilot based on how the reports I heard the copter was descending. Again, I am definitely no aviation expert...just at first look it just seems like the descent indicated something more than a pilot error to me. Edited January 29, 2020 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Ok, so just found some info out on the postponed game from the inside. Turns out the NBA was being really difficult with the Lakers on postponing it and did not want to do it. One of main points of contention, is that tonights game was a rare exclusive for TNT, meaning Spectrum did not have this game exclusively tonight (Spectrum having the Lakers deal is a pain in the a** here in LA). So TNT was furious and looking to lose millions tonight, especially given the magnitude of the game and was fighting having it postponed. Ultimately I was told, it came down to the Lakers organization basically begging the NBA to work with them on this because the players were utterly devastated and in no state to play, let alone the organization putting on a game. NBA ultimately did the right thing, but it was no easy task and they were initially not willing to do it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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