Jump to content
Reed83HOF

Buzzergate update (Again) Update: Beltran, Cora, Hinch & Luhnow (fired) for illegale sign stealing - compare to NFL & The Patsies

Recommended Posts

MLB makes very clear what kind of cheating is ok and what isn't. Old school gamesmanship and sign stealing? Fine. Just don't use tech. They've been very clear.

 

The NFL on the other hand tires to act like cheating doesn't really exist in the league at all.

  • Awesome! (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The media is running with this cheating scandal that "is rocking the sports world" (quote from ESPN this AM).  Cora cheats two years and he is a pariah and pretty much the worst human being on earth  - Bellicheat does it for 20 yrs and he is a "genius" and revered in the media.  smh

  • Like (+1) 4
  • Thanks! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But at the end of the day, the team, owner and people getting fired have a World Series ring.  

 

And I am not sure if the punishment is enough to deter others from looking at it and saying "I'd be willing to trade that for a World Series win".

Edited by matter2003

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, K-9 said:

Has it occurred to you that those 108 wins, sweep of the Yanks, and taking out the Astros and Dodgers each in five games was because the Red Sox cheated? 

 

It has certainly occurred to me. 

I’ve been a Sox fan for over 40 years and I’m seriously thinking of dumping them altogether. I thought that ‘18 WS run was legit. I was happy they finally won one without Ortiz. This absolutely sucks. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, GG said:

I can make an argument that they were the best team in baseball in October.  The ALCS stats are astounding when comparing home and away.  

I thought the Dodgers were the best team in 2017.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Question because I am curious and thankfully haven't gone through this - how do you feel about the WS win in 2018?

 

In the past I have said that if I found out the Bills cheated their way to a SB win, i would be disgusted and not even acknowledge it - same if the Yankees were involved during a win. Saying that without going through it and reconciling it in reality - just curious what it is like


not good

 

I loved the Red Sox my whole life. I lived in Boston when they won in 2004 and 2007. By the time I moved away in 2011 I started to become a little less interested as I felt the city was becoming insufferable around all their sports teams. So while they were still my team, just didn’t feel the connection as I once did. At this point, I’m pretty disgusted with them organization now that we know 2018 is tainted I don’t even consider them the champs from that year. 

  • Awesome! (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, GG said:

I guess you think that a 15 win improvement over previous 2 seasons was just a coincidence?

If you look how they won the previous  championship they went from cellar dwellers to Champions back to cellar dwellers.. so I didn’t find it odd, at the time I thought they just got lucky with some career years from some players like JBJ..

3 hours ago, Metal Man said:

 

FYI, Yankees lost the series but it wasn't a sweep. 

 

Also you can't really say the cheating didn't help at all. Yankees were only 8 games back in the final standings so even if it only helped in some of Boston's home games it could have been enough to give them the division title therefore changing how the entire postseason played out.

I agree! My point was they were good enough that year to win it all without the cheating.. the cheating just made it from a GOOD year to a historic never won so many games ever in Red Sox History year.. 

2 hours ago, Reks Ryan said:

They won Because they cheated in 2018.   With basically the same roster in 2019 they did not make the playoffs

They won it in 2013 and finished last the next year with basically the same roster    This years team failed to make the playoffs because Sale was hurt and never was the Ace he was the year before.. and well Porcello and the rest took a major step back..  oh and they didn’t have a closer all year.. major loss losing Kimbrel with zero replacement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, stevewin said:

 - Bellicheat does it for 20 yrs and he is a "genius" and revered in the media.  smh

The GIANTS, in  Superbowl XXV had a number of injury timeouts on defense, which threw a wrench into the Bills no huddle attack. 'Injured' GIANTS players made a miraculous recovery after the next play.

We know the rest....

Bill Polian said afterwords: 'it was legal', but 'against the spirit of the game'.

Bellichick suddenly realized that he was on to something, going forward..

 

Edited by BUFFALOBART
  • Like (+1) 2
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Golden*Wheels said:

MLB makes very clear what kind of cheating is ok and what isn't. Old school gamesmanship and sign stealing? Fine. Just don't use tech. They've been very clear.

 

The NFL on the other hand tires to act like cheating doesn't really exist in the league at all.

Yup.  

 

Yu Darvish.  Pitch tipping... Okay to capitalize on one's missfortune... At the batter level.  Banging on a steel garbage can lid after it went through the high-tech replay room... Is a gross interpretation of "gamesmanship."

 

There is a reason why centerfield has been blacked out since almost inception of the game. Of course player safety... But also, people are NOT allowed to sit there, dead centerfield, either.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, westside2 said:

Like the Yankees never used Peds. 

Most fans do not like or support ARod or Clemens or for that matter Giambi

3 hours ago, Golden Goat said:


As a Mets fan, I totally agree. 

It's nothing personal -- at all -- against Beltran. 😶

beltran-strikeout.gif
 

@Gugny

 

Image result for mr met

Edited by Reed83HOF
  • Haha (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I thought the Dodgers were the best team in 2017.

Robbed of a Yankees vs. Dodgers WS which is about as classic as you can get - both teams were great that year. Even as a Yankees fan, the Dodgers were the best team, even in 2018 they were

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Their cheating is well documented and has tainted them forever.  Maybe the 4th time they’re caught cheating...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's something novel... How about putting actual teeth in the rulings.  

 

Vacate the championships.

 

Cheating Boston (crossover into New England football).  Cheating Houston.

 

Ralph was cheap.  Call him an old coot... But showed honor and discipline when it came to CBA's and gamesmanship honor.  Yeah, naive... But right, honourable...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Robbed of a Yankees vs. Dodgers WS which is about as classic as you can get - both teams were great that year. Even as a Yankees fan, the Dodgers were the best team, even in 2018 they were

To be clear, I am a very hardcore Yankees fan. The Yankees overperformed in the postseason a bit that year relative to their regular season performance because Tanaka -- a truly league average pitcher the last three seasons (and slightly below league average in 2017) -- just dominates in the postseason (1.76 ERA and 0.78 WHIP over 46 postseason innings). 

Edited by dave mcbride
  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/15/2020 at 7:10 AM, Greybeard said:

              I disagree.   Baseball has no balls.   They should vacate the World Series result and the American League Championship.  All monetary gain should be forfeited.  That is real punishment.  That includes all the players that were involved.  The Dodgers were not the only team that were screwed, all the teams in the American League leading up to their championship were also screwed.

           If I was Darvish, I would would sue the Astro's.   He lost millions after that, he was a "free agent to be" at the time.

 

           A lot of teams keeping quiet makes you wonder how many other teams were involved.  This is baseballs most likely goal.  They don't want a bigger scandal.

Yes like the French did at the Tour de France when Armstrong was busted for cheating, they revoked all his tour wins, and took back the money awards, and the record books show no winners in those years,  in this case every one he beat were all doping as well, so it’s always more complicated and a bit of a rabbit hole, as it were, but ya gotta start somewhere...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a fan of the NFL the last thing you want is a REAL cheating scandal, even if it attacks New England and hurts their legacy. 

 

Because it de-legitimizes the entire sport in the public's eyes. Whenever anyone wins in cycling it's automatic in terms of perception that the person cheated, they just didn't get caught. OR it's just a matter of time. You can't just enjoy the sport for what it is. 

 

IF New England really had to pay a real price for their cheating then the last 20 years of NFL football are tainted. Regardless of how you feel about that then it calls into question everything else. Did Peyton Manning cheat? Do Mahomes and Andy Reid cheat? After all, how does a team go from 24-0 to winning the same game by 20? 

 

If the Bills win a Super Bowl do you want to hear about how it's illegitimate? Josh Allen cheated somehow? McDermott knew the offenses and called the defense accordingly? 

 

Everything the greats accomplish gets called into question if you drop the hammer on NE. That's why it won't happen. 

 

At the end of the day, if Shanahan runs the ball and stops passing up 28-3 and the Seahawks hand off to Lynch 4 times inside the 5 Brady and Belichick are 4-4 in the Super Bowl with 1 blowout loss. Those are decisions OTHER teams made that had nothing at all to do with cheating. 

Edited by TheFunPolice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

Yes like the French did at the Tour de France when Armstrong was busted for cheating, they revoked all his tour wins, and took back the money awards, and the record books show no winners in those years,  in this case every one he beat were all doping as well, so it’s always more complicated and a bit of a rabbit hole, as it were, but ya gotta start somewhere...

The issue is possibly tied to the PED era and other than certain players not being voted in the HOF, WS titles awards and player stats, box scores are all left the same

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

As a fan of the NFL the last thing you want is a REAL cheating scandal, even if it attacks New England and hurts their legacy. 

 

Because it de-legitimizes the entire sport in the public's eyes. Whenever anyone wins in cycling it's automatic in terms of perception that the person cheated, they just didn't get caught. OR it's just a matter of time. You can't just enjoy the sport for what it is. 

 

IF New England really had to pay a real price for their cheating then the last 20 years of NFL football are tainted. Regardless of how you feel about that then it calls into question everything else. Did Peyton Manning cheat? Do Mahomes and Andy Reid cheat? After all, how does a team go from 24-0 to winning the same game by 20? 

 

If the Bills win a Super Bowl do you want to hear about how it's illegitimate? Josh Allen cheated somehow? McDermott knew the offenses and called the defense accordingly? 

 

Everything the greats accomplish gets called into question if you drop the hammer on NE. That's why it won't happen. 

 

At the end of the day, if Shanahan runs the ball and stops passing up 28-3 and the Seahawks hand off to Lynch 4 times inside the 5 Brady and Belichick are 4-4 in the Super Bowl with 1 blowout loss. Those are decisions OTHER teams made that had nothing at all to do with cheating. 

 

Sir, you are the Neville Chamberlain of sports integrity.  Sure, let's appease the cheaters because confronting them hurts us all.  Baloney.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

Sir, you are the Neville Chamberlain of sports integrity.  Sure, let's appease the cheaters because confronting them hurts us all.  Baloney.

 

Enjoyment of the sport in our time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/15/2020 at 8:09 AM, stevewin said:

The media is running with this cheating scandal that "is rocking the sports world" (quote from ESPN this AM).  Cora cheats two years and he is a pariah and pretty much the worst human being on earth  - Bellicheat does it for 20 yrs and he is a "genius" and revered in the media.  smh

 

Football is just treated differently. Baseball player does PED'S? SUSPEND HIM! BAN HIM!

 

Football player does PED'S? Edelman suspended 4 games? Eh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was far far worse than what the Patriots were caught doing.  It lasted multiple years.  Key word is CAUGHT, they are likely still doing shady things they just are not getting caught.

Edited by matter2003

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This is pretty insane at this point. 3 managers in 4 days or whatever it’s been. 

Wait until Rodger has to weigh in on the Pats - Bengals thing now...

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...