Possible Bills coaching changes in 2020 [Mod edited]

[Captain Hindsight]

33 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Oh I disagree completely. I thInk teams are looking at the progress of Josh from last year to this year and giving A LOT of credit to Daboll and Dorsey. Allen is by no means a finished product but he’s light years ahead of where he was at this time last year. The key word is “progress.” The coaches are responsible for (and receive credit for) improvement. 

Totally agree. For how much JA was considered a project, they have made his floor pretty high. Even when he struggles, he still makes some wow plays and had the team within one completion of tying the best team in football. 

 

I'd be surprised if Daboll and Dorsey don't get interview requests

5 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

While I agree that Daboll doesn't appear to have a feel for play calling is there any precedence for this? (an OC who isn't the play caller)

Rams, 49ers have HCs that call plays

 

Bills had Gailey call plays with Modkins as OC

[Happy]

5 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

While I agree that Daboll doesn't appear to have a feel for play calling is there any precedence for this? (an OC who isn't the play caller)

 

I'm not sure there is any precedence for this, at least I don't know about it.  But that really isn't a concern, TBH.  Daboll put together some good plays, just that he calls some of them at the strangest times.  He may just be someone who is terrible at game situations, which is why it is perplexing that Daboll is even being considered for a HC position.

[Kirby Jackson]

27 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I'm not sure there is any precedence for this, at least I don't know about it.  But that really isn't a concern, TBH.  Daboll put together some good plays, just that he calls some of them at the strangest times.  He may just be someone who is terrible at game situations, which is why it is perplexing that Daboll is even being considered for a HC position.

It shouldn’t be perplexing though if you take a step back. It isn’t about his X’s and O’s its about his ability to develop a young QB. The Bucs fired their HC a few years back to protect their OC (Dirk Koetter) because of his relationship with Jameis. If you are a bad team (let’s use Washington) and have a young QB you’d think Daboll would be a guy that could elevate him. You just watched him take a SUPER raw prospect and turn him into a good NFL QB quickly. You’d look at Daboll and think, “if he can do that with Allen why not Haskins (or Daniel Jones or whomever)?” 
 

This doesn’t even take into account Daboll’s background with Saban and BB. Both of those guys think incredibly highly of him. That matters in NFL circles.

 

I’m not saying that Daboll will definitely get a job. I’m just saying it should surprise no one that teams are interested.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[Nihilarian]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Teams pass more in games they are behind a lot and run more when they are ahead. Who knew?

 

There were three lots of run, run, pass punt on Sunday. This team cannot run to set up the pass. It can pass to set up the run.

They were behind 7 points early at Dallas and they still managed the short passes and more runs than passes. 

 

Against the Browns the final score was 16-19 and the Bills were only down by three points so there was no need to go pass happy whatsoever. Daboll stated that they Browns were stacking to box to stop the run and he was full of crap! Bills at halftime with Allen 17 pass attempts, Singletary 3 rushes and he finished that game with only 8 rushes vs 41 passes. Singletary 5.3 YPC avg and it was near criminal that he wasn't given more rush attempts.

 

Guess what? Singletary with a 5.2 YPC avg against the Ravens. He did get 17 carries and it should have been more. The Ravens rushed 33 times for only 118 yards and that kept Lamar Jackson from getting sacked 6x like Josh Allen was in attempting 39 passes! Jackson with a more reasonable 25 pass attempts. The Bills rushed 23 times vs 39 passes and when those numbers are reversed they usually win.

 

We've all seen what happens to Allen when Daboll forces him to carry the game with his arm and it doesn't go well. 

 

Look, you've come at me with this pass first/more passes than runs idea over and over and I've yet to see that concept work. Allen needs a decent run game to help him gain rhythm and settle in as most young QB's do. Let it go willya?

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

 

Look, you've come at me with this pass first/more passes than runs idea over and over and I've yet to see that concept work. Allen needs a decent run game to help him gain rhythm and settle in as most young QB's do. Let it go willya?

 

Then I respectfully suggest you have been watching the wrong thing. I will let it go when you stop banging on about how much more the Bills need to run the ball. 

[Nihilarian]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It shouldn’t be perplexing though if you take a step back. It isn’t about his X’s and O’s its about his ability to develop a young QB. The Bucs fires their HC a few years back to protect their OC (Dirk Koetter) because of his relationship with Jameis. If you are a bad team (let’s use Washington) and have a young QB you’d think Daboll would be a guy that could elevate him. You just watched him take a SUPER raw prospect and turn him into a good NFL QB quickly. You’d look at Daboll and think, “if he can do that with Allen why not Haskins (or Daniel Jones or whomever)?” 
 

This doesn’t even take into account Daboll’s background with Saban and BB. Both of those guys think incredibly highly of him. That matters in NFL circles.

 

I’m not saying that Daboll will definitely get a job. I’m just saying it should surprise no one that teams are interested.

I really hope he does get a HCing gig.

 

From what I see it's Allen making him look good when calls a game with a balanced offensive attack or actually more runs than passes.

 

Look at the history of this OC in the NFL and its not a good one. This years passing offense is 23rd in attempts and 27th in passing yards, 21st in passing TDs. Which is about the average of where this OC has been in his six NFL seasons as an OC with four different NFL teams. 

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

I really hope he does get a HCing gig.

 

From what I see it's Allen making him look good when calls a game with a balanced offensive attack or actually more runs than passes.

 

Look at the history of this OC in the NFL and its not a good one. This years passing offense is 23rd in attempts and 27th in passing yards, 21st in passing TDs. Which is about the average of where this OC has been in his six NFL seasons as an OC with four different NFL teams. 

 

 

I hope that he gets a job for his sake. I hope for another year of continuity for our sake. It’s obvious that Dorsey & Daboll are doing a nice job developing Josh. He’s not where he needs to be yet but 1 more year together would benefit the Bills.

 

How quickly we forget how hard it is to develop a young QB. Look at the way we developed, Losman and Edwards and EJ. It’s not a job that anyone can do. Look what’s happening with Josh Rosen. We have really short memories around here. 

[Nihilarian]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Then I respectfully suggest you have been watching the wrong thing. I will let it go when you stop banging on about how much more the Bills need to run the ball. 

I see. And yet when the Bills ran the ball more against the Dolphins, Broncos, Cowboys they won the game and Josh Allen looked great! 

 

You have been wrong about Josh Allen since stating you thought he should have been a 3rd round draft pick before the draft. Stating that inaccuracy can't be fixed.

Even knowing how raw and inexperienced Allen was and still is, you still want to see the Bills pass first and have him attempt to carry the game with his arm and run the ball less.

For what, in hope that he fails to prove you right?

 

Apparently, since you can't let it go... I will.  

[Mr. WEO]

41 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

We aren’t talking about an OC job. The Bills aren’t letting these guys go to an OC job. Daboll is going to be a HC candidate because teams believe that he can develop a young QB. Bad teams, that fire their coach, are often in the market for a young QB. He is already being mentioned for the Carolina job (the only one currently open). 
 

I’d argue, “light years” as well. If you look at the movement in completion percentage (7% points), passer rating (17.9 points), TD:turnover rate and compare it to other guys between year 1 and 2 he will stack up favorably. That is light years by NFL standards. A lot of that is because he had a bigger gap to cover but the coaches will get credit for that. 

 

 

It's the topic of this thread.  Dorsey as OC.

 

He's better for sure.  His completion rate last year was so low that any jump would be significant.  He's still below 60%. Last week v. Baltimore, another slow start, his lowest yardage all season and 43% of his passes completed.  He was 8 for 18 in the first half, took 4 sacks (with a fumble lost) and the Bills had a 1st and 10 at the Ravens 13 and ended up kicking a FG 3 plays later from the 18.  First half:  punt, punt, punt, sack/fumble, FG, punt, FG.  It was week 14....

 

The Bills Offense is 20th in PPG (21.1).  The D is #2 in points allowed (16.3). If the D was 20th in points allowed, the Bills would likely have a losing record. 

 

He has potential for sure, but I really doubt GMs are saying "wow, look at what Dorsey has done with Allen this year!".

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

We’re finally winning the regular season so we should worry about the off season? ? 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It's the topic of this thread.  Dorsey as OC.

 

He's better for sure.  His completion rate last year was so low that any jump would be significant.  He's still below 60%. Last week v. Baltimore, another slow start, his lowest yardage all season and 43% of his passes completed.  He was 8 for 18 in the first half, took 4 sacks (with a fumble lost) and the Bills had a 1st and 10 at the Ravens 13 and ended up kicking a FG 3 plays later from the 18.  First half:  punt, punt, punt, sack/fumble, FG, punt, FG.  It was week 14....

 

The Bills Offense is 20th in PPG (21.1).  The D is #2 in points allowed (16.3). If the D was 20th in points allowed, the Bills would likely have a losing record. 

 

He has potential for sure, but I really doubt GMs are saying "wow, look at what Dorsey has done with Allen this year!".

 

 

The Bills will block an OC move. I understand that it is the topic but it’s not realistic. The Bills will say no. HC interviews are the only thing that they can’t block. Daboll and Fraizer are going to get looks. 
 

You are looking at where the Bills “are” vs. where they “are vs. expectations.” Everyone is talking about the progress of Allen. In large part, it helps Daboll that he had so far to go. He doesn’t need to get him to Aaron Rodgers for people to think that he’s done a great job. Allen becoming a good NFL QB is a MASSIVE success in a lot of evaluators eyes. If we had drafted Baker Mayfield and today he was in the exact same spot as Allen people wouldn’t be nearly as impressed. 
 

Again, Daboll is already being talked about for the one open job. His name will surface for other jobs as well. That doesn’t mean that he will get one. It’s just crazy that people can’t take a step back and see his appeal to bad teams. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

I see. And yet when the Bills ran the ball more against the Dolphins, Broncos, Cowboys they won the game and Josh Allen looked great! 

 

You have been wrong about Josh Allen since stating you thought he should have been a 3rd round draft pick before the draft. Stating that inaccuracy can't be fixed.

Even knowing how raw and inexperienced Allen was and still is, you still want to see the Bills pass first and have him attempt to carry the game with his arm and run the ball less.

For what, in hope that he fails to prove you right?

 

Apparently, since you can't let it go... I will.  

 

So first of all - what I thought about Josh at the draft is irrelevant. I am not someone who ever believes players are forever their draft grade.

 

As for the Cowboys game..... that is the exact game that proves my point. The Bills passed more than they ran until the point where they scored the third touchdown and had a two score lead. Only then did they go run heavy. And of the 18 runs they had to that point a further 3 were called passes where Allen scrambled. The Bills passed early to get Josh in rhythm and then balanced the game up with the lead. That is and should be the model with Josh. When they try and just come out and "establish the run" early the result almost always seems to be short drives and the Bills off the field. I will give you Denver. That was a run first gameplan and it worked and fair play. But that is easier to commit to against an offense that didn't look like it would have scored a touchdown if we were still playing today.

[Nihilarian]

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I hope that he gets a job for his sake. I hope for another year of continuity for our sake. It’s obvious that Dorsey & Daboll are doing a nice job developing Josh. He’s not where he needs to be yet but 1 more year together would benefit the Bills.

 

How quickly we forget how hard it is to develop a young QB. Look at the way we developed, Losman and Edwards and EJ. It’s not a job that anyone can do. Look what’s happening with Josh Rosen. We have really short memories around here. 

C'mon Kirby.

 

Please don't put Josh Allen in the same category as Losman and EJ or even Edwards. There is a world of difference between those players and Allen in so many ways.

 

Although, I do agree that all three of those young QB's were developed by the wrong people. Steve Fairchild, Turk Schonert, Alex Van Pelt, Curtis Modkins. I do believe only AVP is still coaching in the NFL as a QB coach with Cincy. The best OC's the Bills have had the last decade or so was Greg Roman and Anthony Lynn. Should Lynn lose his job with the Chargers I only hope the Bills hire him. 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The Bills will block an OC move. I understand that it is the topic but it’s not realistic. The Bills will say no. HC interviews are the only thing that they can’t block. Daboll and Fraizer are going to get looks. 
 

You are looking at where the Bills “are” vs. where they “are vs. expectations.” Everyone is talking about the progress of Allen. In large part, it helps Daboll that he had so far to go. He doesn’t need to get him to Aaron Rodgers for people to think that he’s done a great job. Allen becoming a good NFL QB is a MASSIVE success in a lot of evaluators eyes. If we had drafted Baker Mayfield and today he was in the exact same spot as Allen people wouldn’t be nearly as impressed. 
 

Again, Daboll is already being talked about for the one open job. His name will surface for other jobs as well. That doesn’t mean that he will get one. It’s just crazy that people can’t take a step back and see his appeal to bad teams. 

 

I think Daboll gets interviews. I am doubtful he gets a job but one more year and another jump from Josh in 2020 and he almost certainly does. Frazier might get interviews but I am more sceptical there. Not because he hasn't done an excellent job here. I think our fans tend to underrate the role he has played.... but because he is a kind of quiet considered guy who would be a retread, is 60 years old and is a defensive guy in a league going for offensive coaches. I think the Colts job two years ago was probably his last shot at another HC job.

[DrDawkinstein]

10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Nonetheless, the Bills don’t have to let teams interview him for coordinator positions. Teams block guys all the time. If the Bills feel he’s crucial to Josh’s development they should (and will) hold firm on Dorsey. They can even hand him more money to keep him happy.
 

I think Frazier and Daboll are going to get interviews. I don’t know if either will be hired but they will be considered. 

 

While I dont agree with blocking promotions for your assistant coaches, I do agree that Pegula could remedy the situation by making him the highest paid QB coach in the league. That would be the good way to do it.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

C'mon Kirby.

 

Please don't put Josh Allen in the same category as Losman and EJ or even Edwards. There is a world of difference between those players and Allen in so many ways.

 

Although, I do agree that all three of those young QB's were developed by the wrong people. Steve Fairchild, Turk Schonert, Alex Van Pelt, Curtis Modkins. I do believe only AVP is still coaching in the NFL as a QB coach with Cincy. The best OC's the Bills have had the last decade or so was Greg Roman and Anthony Lynn. Should Lynn lose his job with the Chargers I only hope the Bills hire him. 

 

 

Losman and EJ were raw first round picks. Allen was a raw first round pick with a higher ceiling. They aren’t all that different as prospects. Each was considered a long shot from analytical statistics. 
 

I really can’t figure out why anyone is denying the role that Daboll has had on Allen’s development? It’s really crazy to me that people don’t think teams would be interested in a guy, that worked under Saban and Belichick, and can develop young QBs. Daboll has shown that he can do the most important thing for a bad team (develop a young QB). He worked under, inarguably, the two greatest coaches of this generation. This really is shocking to me. It’s OBVIOUS why teams are looking at him.

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Daboll gets interviews. I am doubtful he gets a job but one more year and another jump from Josh in 2020 and he almost certainly does. Frazier might get interviews but I am more sceptical there. Not because he hasn't done an excellent job here. I think our fans tend to underrate the role he has played.... but because he is a kind of quiet considered guy who would be a retread, is 60 years old and is a defensive guy in a league going for offensive coaches. I think the Colts job two years ago was probably his last shot at another HC job.

I agree with all of this

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

While I dont agree with blocking promotions for your assistant coaches, I do agree that Pegula could remedy the situation by making him the highest paid QB coach in the league. That would be the good way to do it.

That’s my guess if teams come calling. The Bills will throw some money his way to sort of “keep him happy.” It will be a good compromise. 

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The Bills will block an OC move. I understand that it is the topic but it’s not realistic. The Bills will say no. HC interviews are the only thing that they can’t block. Daboll and Fraizer are going to get looks. 
 

You are looking at where the Bills “are” vs. where they “are vs. expectations.” Everyone is talking about the progress of Allen. In large part, it helps Daboll that he had so far to go. He doesn’t need to get him to Aaron Rodgers for people to think that he’s done a great job. Allen becoming a good NFL QB is a MASSIVE success in a lot of evaluators eyes. If we had drafted Baker Mayfield and today he was in the exact same spot as Allen people wouldn’t be nearly as impressed. 
 

Again, Daboll is already being talked about for the one open job. His name will surface for other jobs as well. That doesn’t mean that he will get one. It’s just crazy that people can’t take a step back and see his appeal to bad teams. 

 

They may block it, but that's beside the point.  I don't see how he gets a look.

 

I think that a lot of GMs looking at Allen last Sunday would not agree with you that JA's current level of play is a massive success.  Certainly not enough, on its own, to get anyone a new job.

 

I dumped on Rivera a lot, but I believe he was a better HC than Daboll would be.  Bad teams make bad HC choices and Daboll is a guy who's only professional "success" in football (college or NFL) has come via his proximity to great HCs.  Success by association.  On "bad teams" he has been a dud as OC.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

While I dont agree with blocking promotions for your assistant coaches, I do agree that Pegula could remedy the situation by making him the highest paid QB coach in the league. That would be the good way to do it.

 

I don't think the Bills do generally either. I think the pitch to Dorsey would be "look, this even more than last offseason, is the critical period in Josh's career. He has gone from bottom end of the league rookie to a solid middle of the pack Quarterback as a sophomore. We need him to take that next step next year and if he does then at the end of 2020 we will not stand in your way.... unless of course we promote you here."

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

 

Rams, 49ers have HCs that call plays

 

Bills had Gailey call plays with Modkins as OC

Not at all what the person I quoted was suggesting.  Of course there are head coaches who call offensive or defensive plays.  The question is, are there teams where neither the HC or O/DC does not call the game.

[Nihilarian]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So first of all - what I thought about Josh at the draft is irrelevant. I am not someone who ever believes players are forever their draft grade.

 

As for the Cowboys game..... that is the exact game that proves my point. The Bills passed more than they ran until the point where they scored the third touchdown and had a two score lead. Only then did they go run heavy. And of the 18 runs they had to that point a further 3 were called passes where Allen scrambled. The Bills passed early to get Josh in rhythm and then balanced the game up with the lead. That is and should be the model with Josh. When they try and just come out and "establish the run" early the result almost always seems to be short drives and the Bills off the field. I will give you Denver. That was a run first gameplan and it worked and fair play. But that is easier to commit to against an offense that didn't look like it would have scored a touchdown if we were still playing today.

Horse hockey!

 

The Dallas game. Bills first series, run 8 yards, run up mid for 3 yards 1st down! Allen drops back to pass and was sacked -8 yards. next play, short pass complete 6 yards. Allen run up the middle for 9 yards, Punt!

 

Three runs a sack, one pass. 

 

Bills second series, Run, run, pass, run, incomplete pass, incomplete pass, penalty on Dallas, incomplete pass, pass, pass, Punt!

 

Three runs, six passes.

 

Bills third series, pass, run, run, pass, run, run, run, pass. 

 

Five runs, two passes. 

 

fourth series, Run, pass, pass, run, aborted snap looked like a QB sneak (run) pass.

 

Three runs, three passes. 

 

14 runs vs 12 passes in the first half. Pretty balanced in my view. 

 

I realize you and I have completely different views on Allen and I have accepted this. 

 

 

 

 

[Nihilarian]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They may block it, but that's beside the point.  I don't see how he gets a look.

 

I think that a lot of GMs looking at Allen last Sunday would not agree with you that JA's current level of play is a massive success.  Certainly not enough, on its own, to get anyone a new job.

 

I dumped on Rivera a lot, but I believe he was a better HC than Daboll would be.  Bad teams make bad HC choices and Daboll is a guy who's only professional "success" in football (college or NFL) has come via his proximity to great HCs.  Success by association.  On "bad teams" he has been a dud as OC.

I agree with this.

 

Daboll might have gotten some looks had the Bills won that Ravens game. He still might get some looks if the Bills offense comes alive against the Steelers, Patriots, Jets and the Bills offense looks good.

 

The Bills lose the next three I gotta think Daboll is history In Buffalo.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They may block it, but that's beside the point.  I don't see how he gets a look.

 

I think that a lot of GMs looking at Allen last Sunday would not agree with you that JA's current level of play is a massive success.  Certainly not enough, on its own, to get anyone a new job.

 

I dumped on Rivera a lot, but I believe he was a better HC than Daboll would be.  Bad teams make bad HC choices and Daboll is a guy who's only professional "success" in football (college or NFL) has come via his proximity to great HCs.  Success by association.  On "bad teams" he has been a dud as OC.

Again, he’s already being mentioned as a candidate in Carolina. Whether he will be a good HC (or even a good interview) is totally different than will he get looks. He is definitely going to get looks. He may not get a job. If he does get a job he may not be any good. 

[The Jokeman]

I don't think anyone from coaching staff going anywhere unless we have a complete meltdown or win a Super Bowl. Yet expect I fully us to make the Wild Card round and bow out in the 2nd round. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Can we please just get a comp ST's coach?

 

If we're gonna make a coaching change, this is the one that gets my vote.

 

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Again, he’s already being mentioned as a candidate in Carolina. Whether he will be a good HC (or even a good interview) is totally different than will he get looks. He is definitely going to get looks. He may not get a job. If he does get a job he may not be any good. 

 

Mentioned, schmentioned.  I will say this: When Pettine was having some success as our DC and interviewed as HC of the Browns, I thought it was a "practice interview" and for the good of his career, he neither would nor should consider it.  Well, I was wrong on the first (he took it) and right on the second (it was a Bad Career Move).  I would see it as similar for Daboll.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

 

The Bills lose the next three I gotta think Daboll is history In Buffalo.

 

 

I think there is almost zero chance the Bills fire Daboll this offseason.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

42 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Horse hockey!

 

The Dallas game. Bills first series, run 8 yards, run up mid for 3 yards 1st down! Allen drops back to pass and was sacked -8 yards. next play, short pass complete 6 yards. Allen run up the middle for 9 yards, Punt!

 

Three runs a sack, one pass. 

 

Bills second series, Run, run, pass, run, incomplete pass, incomplete pass, penalty on Dallas, incomplete pass, pass, pass, Punt!

 

Three runs, six passes.

 

Bills third series, pass, run, run, pass, run, run, run, pass. 

 

Five runs, two passes. 

 

fourth series, Run, pass, pass, run, aborted snap looked like a QB sneak (run) pass.

 

Three runs, three passes. 

 

14 runs vs 12 passes in the first half. Pretty balanced in my view. 

 

I realize you and I have completely different views on Allen and I have accepted this. 

 

 

 

 

This is awesome. 

[warrior9]

I would love to get Joe Brady on our staff as a passing game coordinator or someone to assist Daboll. He's the LSU passing game coordinator and worked with Sean Peyton for years as well. 

[Kirby Jackson]

16 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

I would love to get Joe Brady on our staff as a passing game coordinator or someone to assist Daboll. He's the LSU passing game coordinator and worked with Sean Peyton for years as well. 

Joe Brady is a stud. Unfortunately, he isn’t going anywhere until he gets a HC job. LSU has already proven that they will pay for assistants. Dave Aranda is the highest paid assistant in the NCAA at $2.5M per year. That would make him one of the highest paid coordinators in the NFL. LSU LOVES Joe Brady and are going to open up their deep pockets. 

[warrior9]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Joe Brady is a stud. Unfortunately, he isn’t going anywhere until he gets a HC job. LSU has already proven that they will pay for assistants. Dave Aranda is the highest paid assistant in the NCAA at $2.5M per year. That would make him one of the highest paid coordinators in the NFL. LSU LOVES Joe Brady and are going to open up their deep pockets. 

I know I know.... Maybe he gets an OC job in the NFL and jets. who knows... I'm not saying it's going to happen, I would just love it to happen. 

[Bronxbomber21]

14 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Or how about Ken Dorsey being the play caller?  Daboll creates some nice plays, I suspect he has problems with when to call what plays at the right situation.  The offense would be set back if you blew up Daboll's play book, but I don't think he should be calling plays.

That two point conversation was a great call and at the right time so was the td pass for that matter

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If we're gonna make a coaching change, this is the one that gets my vote.

 

 

Mentioned, schmentioned.  I will say this: When Pettine was having some success as our DC and interviewed as HC of the Browns, I thought it was a "practice interview" and for the good of his career, he neither would nor should consider it.  Well, I was wrong on the first (he took it) and right on the second (it was a Bad Career Move).  I would see it as similar for Daboll.

 

 

 

 

Ok I'll allow that Daboll definitely could get a year as Browns HC LOL...

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Again, he’s already being mentioned as a candidate in Carolina. Whether he will be a good HC (or even a good interview) is totally different than will he get looks. He is definitely going to get looks. He may not get a job. If he does get a job he may not be any good. 

 

 

Norv Turner, as OC,  has gotten as much out of KYLE Allen, in fewer games, as Daboll has gotten out of JA this year----while paired with a horrible (not top 3) Defense.

 

I don't see how  Carolina would seriously look at Daboll and say..."that's what we are missing on this coaching staff".  Certainly their new billionaire owner can't be thinking that.

[Happy]

16 minutes ago, Bronxbomber21 said:

That two point conversation was a great call and at the right time so was the td pass for that matter

 

How about the long balls on third and short?  The outside run on 1st and goal from inside the 1 yard line, rather than a QB sneak?  Daboll tries to outsmart everyone rather than think practically most times.

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It shouldn’t be perplexing though if you take a step back. It isn’t about his X’s and O’s its about his ability to develop a young QB. The Bucs fired their HC a few years back to protect their OC (Dirk Koetter) because of his relationship with Jameis. If you are a bad team (let’s use Washington) and have a young QB you’d think Daboll would be a guy that could elevate him. You just watched him take a SUPER raw prospect and turn him into a good NFL QB quickly. You’d look at Daboll and think, “if he can do that with Allen why not Haskins (or Daniel Jones or whomever)?” 
 

This doesn’t even take into account Daboll’s background with Saban and BB. Both of those guys think incredibly highly of him. That matters in NFL circles.

 

I’m not saying that Daboll will definitely get a job. I’m just saying it should surprise no one that teams are interested.

 

I understand your point, it’s just flawed logic (not on your part) within NFL circles.  I suspect Daboll would be fired within three years if he got a HC job.

[Big Turk]

16 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Looking at our coaching staff I really only see one solid possibility of losing a coach, and that being Ken Dorsey. With Allen’s improvement is it possible someone will offer Dorsey an OC spot to work with that teams QB and also steer their offense? Is Dorsey ready to be an OC?

 

Possible that Allen is more comfortable with Dorsey than Daboll and the Bills send Daboll packing and offer Dorsey the OC?

 

Anyone else see any possibilities? Though our defense is top notch I don’t see anyone getting poached there,

 

They can't just "hire" him.  Bills would have to allow him to leave.  Teams can only hire away coaches without permission for head coaching jobs.

[ogham26]

14 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

Daboll and Fraser stay.  Dorsey, who knows, but I am guessing yes as well.  the special teams guy has not worked out imho.  Lets try Tasker......in that role. 

 listen to tasker talk on OBL for more than 30 seconds and see if you still want him coaching this team..if you find yourself still saying yes then im very glad you have no control over anything ?

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I really can’t figure out why anyone is denying the role that Daboll has had on Allen’s development? It’s really crazy to me that people don’t think teams would be interested in a guy, that worked under Saban and Belichick, and can develop young QBs. Daboll has shown that he can do the most important thing for a bad team (develop a young QB). He worked under, inarguably, the two greatest coaches of this generation. This really is shocking to me. It’s OBVIOUS why teams are looking at him. 

First off, lets look at all the failed NFL head coaches that have come from the BB tree. 

 

Jim Bates was his D line coach, Al Groh was his LBer coach. Jim Schwartz was a scout. Nick Saban was his DC. Rod Dowhower was his QB coach. Rick Venturi  was his DC, all in at some point in Cleveland from 1991-1995.

 

Eric Mangini, DBs coach, Rob Ryan was his LBers coach, Daboll was a defensive assistant all in 2000. Charlie Weis, Romeo, Crennel. Brian Flores. Matt Patricia all at some point in New England. 

 

So, just because you work for the guy doesn't mean you'll have success in the NFL as a HC

 

Second, lets not forget who Brian Daboll started in front of Josh Allen in 2018 and he must have thought Nathan Peterman would be good enough to remain as the starter for awhile as Allen was supposed to sit, learn. This was a grade A+ moronic move. Allen was then forced to start on a bad team behind a bad line with little talent around him. 

 

Its crystal clear to me that while Brian Daboll does call some good games. Although, at times he makes some very questionable calls. Like all the deep passing calls against Baltimore when Allen has one of the worst deep passing completion percentages in the league this season.

 

Daboll's failure to setup a winning game plan against the Ravens even given extra time. The failure to make adjustments for the offensive line to help stop the blitzes. The failure to find a way to get the run game working early to take pressure off his young, inexperienced QB.

 

Failure to get the short passing game working. That last part said, Cole Beasley is a remarkable talent much like Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, Julian Edleman. A first down machine and a player who usually finds a way to get open early. He should have been targeted early and often against the Ravens.

 

Instead, incomplete deep to John Brown. Incomplete Deep to Robert Foster.  Incomplete short to McKenzie. Incomplete deep Dawson Knox. Incomplete deep John Brown. Finally, incomplete short Cole Beasley in the fourth series.

 

Another finally moment, Daboll, realizing Allen was shaken and having great difficulty in this game. He ran Singletary six straight times for two first downs...then went back to the pass. 

 

Had Daboll worked the short pass game with runs by Singletary early and often. Its my take that the Ravens game would have gone in an entirely different way with a win as with the Dallas game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Its crystal clear to me that while Brian Daboll does call some good games. Although, at times he makes some very questionable calls. Like all the deep passing calls against Baltimore when Allen has one of the worst deep passing completion percentages in the league this season.

 

Daboll's failure to setup a winning game plan against the Ravens even given extra time. The failure to make adjustments for the offensive line to help stop the blitzes. The failure to find a way to get the run game working early to take pressure off his young, inexperienced QB.

 

Failure to get the short passing game working. That last part said, Cole Beasley is a remarkable talent much like Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, Julian Edleman. A first down machine and a player who usually finds a way to get open early. He should have been targeted early and often against the Ravens.

 

Instead, incomplete deep to John Brown. Incomplete Deep to Robert Foster.  Incomplete short to McKenzie. Incomplete deep Dawson Knox. Incomplete deep John Brown. Finally, incomplete short Cole Beasley in the fourth series.

 

Another finally moment, Daboll, realizing Allen was shaken and having great difficulty in this game. He ran Singletary six straight times for two first downs...then went back to the pass. 

 

Had Daboll worked the short pass game with runs by Singletary early and often. Its my take that the Ravens game would have gone in an entirely different way with a win as with the Dallas game. 

 

I'd just like to point out it is a fact that there were guys open, usually near the LOS but sometimes short, over the middle, early in the Ravens game.  I haven't gotten all the way through the game yet but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if there were more of the same, later.   The plays were there for the taking.

 

What none of us know how the reads or the strategy of the game plan was set up - for example, was there an overarching instruction to try to push the ball down the field with chunk plays if they were there (and they were) vs. taking the dink-n-dunk?  Allen said in his presser that he should have gone for the easier throws and taken some of the shorter stuff in the 1Q, but that leaves the question open as to why he didn't.  Neither Allen nor Daboll is going to throw each other under the bus.  McDermott has said "it starts with me", so it could have even been a strategic directive from the HC. 

 

It's possible it's a decision Allen made to go for the deep throws instead of the easy throws, and it's not on Daboll at all.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but part of the issue seems to be asking players to execute assignments that abstractly make the most sense, and that they should be able to execute, but that those particular players on that particular day can not, in fact, execute.  Allen should be able to complete those throws to his WR in the abstract, and in the abstract they are the best way to defeat Cover 0, but I think it's telling that the Ravens only tried one pass beyond 15 yards and two passes beyond 20 yards (and Jackson completed none of them).  And of course, there are other ways to back the blitz off - quick, short completions that move the chains via YAC are another classic blitz beater.  In theory, Knox at 6'4" 257 should be able to block Matt Judon at 6'3 263 but in fact, he couldn't.

 

On adjustments, I got nothin'.  I don't know why it took until the 2nd half to adjust the blocking.  Slow adjustments for stuff that's clearly not working is a repeated beef of mine.

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Norv Turner, as OC,  has gotten as much out of KYLE Allen, in fewer games, as Daboll has gotten out of JA this year----while paired with a horrible (not top 3) Defense.

 

I don't see how  Carolina would seriously look at Daboll and say..."that's what we are missing on this coaching staff".  Certainly their new billionaire owner can't be thinking that.

That’s certainly your opinion on it. However, those that cover the Carolina Panthers for a living are hearing that he’s a candidate. It’s posted earlier in the thread. I will trust the opinion of the Charlotte sports talk host over Bills message board poster.

[Kirby Jackson]

5 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

First off, lets look at all the failed NFL head coaches that have come from the BB tree. 

 

Jim Bates was his D line coach, Al Groh was his LBer coach. Jim Schwartz was a scout. Nick Saban was his DC. Rod Dowhower was his QB coach. Rick Venturi  was his DC, all in at some point in Cleveland from 1991-1995.

 

Eric Mangini, DBs coach, Rob Ryan was his LBers coach, Daboll was a defensive assistant all in 2000. Charlie Weis, Romeo, Crennel. Brian Flores. Matt Patricia all at some point in New England. 

 

So, just because you work for the guy doesn't mean you'll have success in the NFL as a HC

 

Second, lets not forget who Brian Daboll started in front of Josh Allen in 2018 and he must have thought Nathan Peterman would be good enough to remain as the starter for awhile as Allen was supposed to sit, learn. This was a grade A+ moronic move. Allen was then forced to start on a bad team behind a bad line with little talent around him. 

 

Its crystal clear to me that while Brian Daboll does call some good games. Although, at times he makes some very questionable calls. Like all the deep passing calls against Baltimore when Allen has one of the worst deep passing completion percentages in the league this season.

 

Daboll's failure to setup a winning game plan against the Ravens even given extra time. The failure to make adjustments for the offensive line to help stop the blitzes. The failure to find a way to get the run game working early to take pressure off his young, inexperienced QB.

 

Failure to get the short passing game working. That last part said, Cole Beasley is a remarkable talent much like Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, Julian Edleman. A first down machine and a player who usually finds a way to get open early. He should have been targeted early and often against the Ravens.

 

Instead, incomplete deep to John Brown. Incomplete Deep to Robert Foster.  Incomplete short to McKenzie. Incomplete deep Dawson Knox. Incomplete deep John Brown. Finally, incomplete short Cole Beasley in the fourth series.

 

Another finally moment, Daboll, realizing Allen was shaken and having great difficulty in this game. He ran Singletary six straight times for two first downs...then went back to the pass. 

 

Had Daboll worked the short pass game with runs by Singletary early and often. Its my take that the Ravens game would have gone in an entirely different way with a win as with the Dallas game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you aren’t seeing is that his X’s and O’s are a minor part of the equation to teams. Someone else will be calling the plays if he is an HC. They are saying, “if we are going to invest in our future franchise QB we want a guy that can develop him.” People will ABSOLUTELY look at that as a positive for Daboll. It’s the same reason Frank Reich got a HC job. It’s the same reason Zac Taylor got a job. It’s the same reason Kliff Kingsbury got a job. It’s the same reason Sean McVay got a job. It’s the same reason Matt Nagy got a job. It’s the same reason that Pat Shurmur got a job. Every single one of those guys got more out of the QB than people thought that they would. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[TigerJ]

I don't think I would change anything.  I recognize things are not perfect, but I think a lot of what is wrong will resolve itself over time with Josh Allen's continued development.  There are a number of times where Daboll made the right call for a situation and Josh, because of youthful exuberance or nerves or whatever did not execute it the way a seasoned veteran might have.  Maybe Daboll, realizing Josh's youth could have called something different, but maybe this is what Josh has to go through to get better.  If you never take the training wheels off, your 5 year old is never going to learn to ride a bike.