BADOLBILZ Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You're correct and I don't think 716 will disagree with you, except for the caveat that last Sunday in New Era was probably not the right time and place for arcs. What was not a given, to me, is the improvement in Allen's short and intermediate throws. He sucked at them last year (and ran instead of taking shots he had). I will take my crow: I was openly skeptical that he could improve on those as much as he has. He plainly put in a huge amount of work on them and it shows. That being the case, while perhaps not a "given", I don't think it's very surprising that his deep ball suffered, either because he simply didn't give it the reps it needed with the current WR/TE corps (only one of whom was here last year), or because a change in his intermediate throw mechanics that he's successfully beaten into muscle memory has altered what he does with the deep ball. Or both. Actually that's not the case. It was forecasted to be a windy day but instead it was dead calm around the stadium with almost no wind in the lower bowl of the stadium during the game. For the first time in a number of home games wind was not an issue. And yeah I can buy that he didn't work on it enough but it's not excusable.........it's just at best an unfortunate oversight in offseason preparation or at worst a larger problem. I think he can fix it and improve his touch/accuracy. Ryan Tannehill really struggled with deep accuracy for a while and he seems to have gotten over that now and Josh is a lot more talented than Tannehill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, tcampbell104 said: man you really hate the guy You should have seen the venom pre-draft! He's had to back off from that nonsense significantly, but not to the point where he sounds rational (thank goodness for that, lest the posts lose their entertainment value). 3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Actually that's not the case. It was forecasted to be a windy day but instead it was dead calm around the stadium with almost no wind in the lower bowl of the stadium during the game. For the first time in a number of home games wind was not an issue. And yeah I can buy that he didn't work on it enough but it's not excusable.........it's just at best an unfortunate oversight in offseason preparation or at worst a larger problem. I think he can fix it and improve his touch/accuracy. Ryan Tannehill really struggled with deep accuracy for a while and he seems to have gotten over that now and Josh is a lot more talented than Tannehill. I think he tries way too hard to put touch on the ball. He needs to just rip it and not worry about getting picked...at least until he gets to the offseason and has time to really put in the work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcampbell104 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 i am a big allen fan, they are going to be in the playoffs this year but i believe next year is the year josh puts it all together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: It's not a given that it would be a lot worse but common sense days it wouldn't be as clean as the areas he busted his butt on If you're a golfer and you practice your irons for the majority for 6 months straight they will be impeccable.. but your driver game will take a hit It's the same principal. People thought Allen couldn't hit the backside of a barn at close distances... Now he has 65% completion on throws from 10-20 yards downfield. He spent ALOT of time on them and it has paid off He needs to do the same for the deep ball next off-season 1) Then wouldn't "common sense" have also told you that you were going to be awful at the deep ball if you didn't devote time/training to it?? Like I said it was an unfortunate oversight in the process not an unavoidable byproduct. 2) If he does "the same" for the deep ball then wouldn't your common sense say that his short to intermediate throws would suffer? You see what I mean? It's not a given. It's pretty weird that his deep ball has been so bad and far less explicable than you want to make it sound. 5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I think he tries way too hard to put touch on the ball. He needs to just rip it and not worry about getting picked...at least until he gets to the offseason and has time to really put in the work. Sometimes yes but I think the last throw to Brown was him just ripping it. The problem is that not having touch in your arsenal is limiting. Ravens had no fear of being beaten over the top. That allowed them to play pretty aggressive in coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: 1) Then wouldn't "common sense" have also told you that you were going to be awful at the deep ball if you didn't devote time/training to it?? Like I said it was an unfortunate oversight in the process not an unavoidable byproduct. 2) If he does "the same" for the deep ball then wouldn't your common sense say that his short to intermediate throws would suffer? You see what I mean? It's not a given. It's pretty weird that his deep ball has been so bad and far less explicable than you want to make it sound. Sometimes yes but I think the last throw to Brown was him just ripping it. The problem is that not having touch in your arsenal is limiting. Ravens had no fear of being beaten over the top. That allowed them to play pretty aggressive in coverage. Yeah I was speaking exclusively to the deep throws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, tcampbell104 said: okay good enough No not really. He doesn't " hate " Allen, but he never liked him. Never liked the pick. Doesn't think he is any good. Doesn't think he has any chance of getting any better either. Close enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: 1) Then wouldn't "common sense" have also told you that you were going to be awful at the deep ball if you didn't devote time/training to it?? Like I said it was an unfortunate oversight in the process not an unavoidable byproduct. 2) If he does "the same" for the deep ball then wouldn't your common sense say that his short to intermediate throws would suffer? You see what I mean? It's not a given. It's pretty weird that his deep ball has been so bad and far less explicable than you want to make it sound. His deep ball wasn't that great last year and throwing a football is muscle memory.. especially with repetition College football is ridiculously tough, you hardly have time to work on things like mechanics to find a groove because you have a massive playbook to learn and opponents to prepare for during the year His lower body mechanics are off on his deep ball and it's messing with his consistency. He also had mechanical problems last year on short throws and cleaned them up He needs to do the same with his deep ball. And lots of repetition creating muscle memory can do that QBs can fix lots of parts of there game with repetition and muscle memory and it's pretty clear Allen spent an exorbitant amount of time on the short to intermediate stuff and it cleaned up his mechanics and also his accuracy Edited December 11, 2019 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcampbell104 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: No not really. He doesn't " hate " Allen, but he never liked him. Never liked the pick. Doesn't think he is any good. Doesn't think he has any chance of getting any better either. Close enough. all i can say is i believe allen is going to be a great qb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, tcampbell104 said: all i can say is i believe allen is going to be a great qb I believe he has the talent and the tools. I believe he could be a great QB and he just has to put it all together. It takes time. I think it will take a little longer than normal because Allen didn't come from that premier coaching other QBs do. This guy could be great. People just need to cut him some slack and let him learn. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Mikey152 said: I remember reading an article about Aaron Rodgers where they asked him about the "art" of the deep ball and why he was so good at it. He said when he first came into the league, he was awful...mostly because he was trying to throw it as hard as he could, and in a game situation with his adrenaline pumping he would constantly overthrow it relative to his timing in practice. Ultimately, he fixed this problem by focusing on repeating his mechanics, including how hard he threw it, every time. Make it more of a calculated process than a wing and a prayer. His placement is focused more on which shoulder, not how far, and he uses timing and mechanics to control distance and trajectory. I think Josh has the same issue...the there is no rhythm. He just kind of heaves it out there and it's usually too far... I honestly think he just throws the ball too far for a normal 5 or 7 step drop. He either needs to hitch, give it more air (mechanics) or take something off (tough due to adrenaline ina game situation)...maybe all three I think this is the article you are talking about. He doesn't say that he was terrible with the deep ball when he was in the NFL. Contextually, I read it as implying he was terrible at it in HS. He could throw it 75 yards, but it wasn't catchable. I think it goes back to what Rodgers said helped fix him, footwork, then timing footwork to each throw/route. Then of course Allen needs to control his velocity, and be a little bit like Rick Vaughn. http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/11984391/green-bay-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-talks-art-deep-ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mango said: I think this is the article you are talking about. He doesn't say that he was terrible with the deep ball when he was in the NFL. Contextually, I read it as implying he was terrible at it in HS. He could throw it 75 yards, but it wasn't catchable. I think it goes back to what Rodgers said helped fix him, footwork, then timing footwork to each throw/route. Then of course Allen needs to control his velocity, and be a little bit like Rick Vaughn. http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/11984391/green-bay-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-talks-art-deep-ball Rodgers did have a bad deep ball(for NFL standards) coming into the league and many wondered if he'd ever be able to hit it Allen needs to work on his mechanics like Rodgers and find some touch Edited December 11, 2019 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Rodgers did have a bad deep ball(for NFL standards) coming into the league and many wondered if he'd ever be able to hit it Allen needs to work on his mechanics like Rodgers and find some touch Thanks for the correction. I didn't recall, just went off context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Just now, Mango said: Thanks for the correction. I didn't recall, just went off context. Rodgers was very similar to Josh Both physically gifted specimens from a Cali JuCo college. Both could throw it over the mountains and throw darts on the run But both struggled with consistency due to sloppy mechanics and thinking they could put the ball through any window Rodgers went from a sub par deep ball to probably the best in the world 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, jrober38 said: We had receivers get open on deep routes at least 5 times against the Ravens and Allen couldn't complete a single one of those opportunities presented to him. He arguably left 3 touchdowns on the field that game, including the last throw into the end zone which would have won the game for us. And yet people want to needlessly complicate the issue by discussing pass protection from the OL or play calling from Daboll. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: He arguably left 3 touchdowns on the field that game, including the last throw into the end zone which would have won the game for us. And yet people want to needlessly complicate the issue by discussing pass protection from the OL or play calling from Daboll. Yes, we all know you couldn't wait for this week to happen so you could discuss how bad Allen is. It probably drove you nuts that you couldn't do it the week before or the week before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 19 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: He arguably left 3 touchdowns on the field that game, including the last throw into the end zone which would have won the game for us. And yet people want to needlessly complicate the issue by discussing pass protection from the OL or play calling from Daboll. I'm sure that there's no reason Andy Reid goes to max protect about 50% of the time that Mahomes takes a deep shot. None at all. Try harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) Take a look at Erik Turner's column today in The Athletic. I'm far less concerned about the deep ball than I am with JA's tendency to see ghosts and bail from the pocket before he needs to. The Ravens got in his head early in the game and it threw off his clock and caused him to overthink. I didn't realize this at the time but on the Knox drop, he had Beasley wide open right in front of his face for an easy first down and instead threw it back across his body to Knox. JA needs to keep working on his processing speed and understanding the goal of each play relative to the down-and-distance and game situation. Daboll also needs to go empty backfield more, as explained in Turner's article - they went max protect to help shore up the protection and it resulted in disaster. The deep balls are a plus but not a must. Edited December 11, 2019 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: It's not a given that it would be a lot worse but common sense days it wouldn't be as clean as the areas he busted his butt on If you're a golfer and you practice your irons for the majority for 6 months straight they will be impeccable.. but your driver game will take a hit It's the same principal. People thought Allen couldn't hit the backside of a barn at close distances... Now he has 65% completion on throws from 10-20 yards downfield. He spent ALOT of time on them and it has paid off He needs to do the same for the deep ball next off-season 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: 1) Then wouldn't "common sense" have also told you that you were going to be awful at the deep ball if you didn't devote time/training to it?? Like I said it was an unfortunate oversight in the process not an unavoidable byproduct. 2) If he does "the same" for the deep ball then wouldn't your common sense say that his short to intermediate throws would suffer? You see what I mean? It's not a given. It's pretty weird that his deep ball has been so bad and far less explicable than you want to make it sound. Sometimes yes but I think the last throw to Brown was him just ripping it. The problem is that not having touch in your arsenal is limiting. Ravens had no fear of being beaten over the top. That allowed them to play pretty aggressive in coverage. I am not so sure the issue last year was with the short to intermediate stuff. It seemed to be a matter of learning to take it rather than a matter of delivering it. If I recall, wasn't JA near the top of the league last year in average yards per attempt last year. Josh's issues seem to have always been controlling his velocity, mechanics, ball placements, and reading the defense quicker (which velocity bails him out on a lot). I don't think it has ever been as simple as "he can't throw the short stuff". It is the other big picture/fundamental stuff that has been holding him back as a passer, not granular specific throws. Which is why I would think BOTH deep and intermediate routes would have improved this year because it really is the base layer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 hours ago, jrober38 said: I don't hate anyone. I just don't understand why people go to such extreme lengths to blame everyone but the QB for why we can't complete passes thrown more than 30 yards down field. The three misses in the first quarter were all awful throws from a clean pocket. I love Allen. I think he was a great pick and has a chance to be the best QB out of that draft class when all is said and done a decade from now. But it all hinges on those kinds of passes. I said in another thread, he realistically left 17 points on the field. That game could've been a blowout if he hits those throws. And that's all on him. He didn't get any help in the short and intermediate game from his receivers and I think people are confusing the two. Those 20+ throws are all on him. Like you said, clean pocket, open receiver. If he's going to be a franchise QB and take this team to the playoffs and to the Super Bowl year after year, he has to figure out how to start hitting those throws. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Mango said: I am not so sure the issue last year was with the short to intermediate stuff. It seemed to be a matter of learning to take it rather than a matter of delivering it. If I recall, wasn't JA near the top of the league last year in average yards per attempt last year. Josh's issues seem to have always been controlling his velocity, mechanics, ball placements, and reading the defense quicker (which velocity bails him out on a lot). I don't think it has ever been as simple as "he can't throw the short stuff". It is the other big picture/fundamental stuff that has been holding him back as a passer, not granular specific throws. Which is why I would think BOTH deep and intermediate routes would have improved this year because it really is the base layer. I never said he couldn't throw the short stuff but the majority of people did And his completion percentage did reflect that last year ... And his timing in the Rhythm passing game has improved ten fold which accounts for his uptick in Completions But I don't think deep ball is a base layer of measurement because you need all the pieces. We have 1 guy who is consistent deep and 1 guy in foster with potential but is wildly inconsistent People also think a ball 40 yards downfield is a gimme just because the wr has a few steps... But the Bills defense has had wrs running deep 40 yards downfield and QBs have taken shots but they haven't allowed an air Completion of 40 yards this year Im pretty sure Rodgers couldn't throw deep coming in and he got 3 years on the bench to work on his game. Josh will be fine 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 How do we know he didn't practice long passes last summer too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: How do we know he didn't practice long passes last summer too? He obviously does he's a pro but he has even admitted to putting more time into the short and intermediate game this past summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 29 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: He obviously does he's a pro but he has even admitted to putting more time into the short and intermediate game this past summer Thanks. I was not aware he had actually said that. Common sense would say he worked on it in the off season and works on it every day seeings to how he is a professional and all with nothing else to do besides play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Thanks. I was not aware he had actually said that. Common sense would say he worked on it in the off season and works on it every day seeings to how he is a professional and all with nothing else to do besides play football. Of course he does he's a pro. but he had a lot more glaring weaknesses in other areas that he had to put more time into Now that's some of those areas look cleaned up he could focus on the deep ball. and as I said earlier his deep-ball accuracy is affected because of bad lower body mechanics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 He worked all off season on accuracy in the short to intermediate game. Anyone want to complain about those throws? Now imagine him working all off season focusing like that on his deep ball---which he probably took a little for granted considering how effective he was with it as a rookie. Not saying it was ignored no but a lot of mechanical work is happening with him plus a whole new set of WRs. He'll get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: He obviously does he's a pro but he has even admitted to putting more time into the short and intermediate game this past summer He said it and I believe McDermott and Daboll both said it. Opinion with absolutely no evidence behind it: I think Josh hits those passes regularly in practice. I think he was hitting them in practice last week and that's why they got called in the game. I can't tell you if he's throwing flat or with arc or in wind or in calm or whatever, but when he talks about it in pressers (like today's) he's just too calm and collected about it IMO 6:04 into the presser https://www.buffalobills.com/video/josh-allen-we-ve-gotta-be-ready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He said it and I believe McDermott and Daboll both said it. Opinion with absolutely no evidence behind it: I think Josh hits those passes regularly in practice. I think he was hitting them in practice last week and that's why they got called in the game. I can't tell you if he's throwing flat or with arc or whatever, but when he talks about it in pressers (like today's) he's just too calm and collected about it. 6:04 into the presser https://www.buffalobills.com/video/josh-allen-we-ve-gotta-be-ready Said what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I never said he couldn't throw the short stuff but the majority of people did Welllllllll..... for Josh's 2018 season https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/season/josh-allen/ALL529264/2018/all/qb-grid 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Said what " putting more time into the short and intermediate game this past summer ". I didn't hear Josh say that, actually, but McDermott and Daboll both said that was the focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Welllllllll..... for Josh's 2018 season https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/season/josh-allen/ALL529264/2018/all/qb-grid " putting more time into the short and intermediate game this past summer ". I didn't hear Josh say that, actually, but McDermott and Daboll both said that was the focus. I thought I heard Josh say it but regardless I think it's clear I also have my own opinions on Allen and his deep ball accuracy and why he's off but it's a long read .. more thread worthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I thought I heard Josh say it but regardless I think it's clear I also have my own opinions on Allen and his deep ball accuracy and why he's off but it's a long read .. more thread worthy Pull up a chair, I'll pour you a glass of 20 year port (or a beer if that's more to your liking), I got time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Pull up a chair, I'll pour you a glass of year vintage port (or a beer if that's more to your liking), I got time. I prefer a nice whiskey ? Edited December 12, 2019 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: I prefer a nice whiskey ? Got that too unless you're damned picky, GO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Got that too unless you're damned picky, GO! Should I spill my thoughts (which are long thought out) here or in a new thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Should I spill my thoughts (which are long thought out) here or in a new thread Either "new thread" or "My 2 cents on the deep balls" thread. Your call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Either "new thread" or "My 2 cents on the deep balls" thread. Your call It's posted my friend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I never said he couldn't throw the short stuff but the majority of people did And his completion percentage did reflect that last year ... And his timing in the Rhythm passing game has improved ten fold which accounts for his uptick in Completions But I don't think deep ball is a base layer of measurement because you need all the pieces. We have 1 guy who is consistent deep and 1 guy in foster with potential but is wildly inconsistent People also think a ball 40 yards downfield is a gimme just because the wr has a few steps... But the Bills defense has had wrs running deep 40 yards downfield and QBs have taken shots but they haven't allowed an air Completion of 40 yards this year Im pretty sure Rodgers couldn't throw deep coming in and he got 3 years on the bench to work on his game. Josh will be fine Sorry, part of my point was, I don’t think he is a very accurate/precise passer in general because of the issues I said above. I think a large part of the perception of being more accurate in the short/intermediate is just shifting what types of passes he is throwing a majority of the time, not making huge strides as an actual thrower. I thought I was seeing a change the last three weeks , but then Sunday happened and I am wondering if I was wrong. He’s made some improvements in addition to taking some of the underneath stuff. But he’s moved the needle from a 52% passer to a 59% passer. I really liked his last 3 weeks before Baltimore. But Sunday was a rough one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Just now, Mango said: Sorry, part of my point was, I don’t think he is a very accurate/precise passer in general because of the issues I said above. I think a large part of the perception of being more accurate in the short/intermediate is just shifting what types of passes he is throwing a majority of the time, not making huge strides as an actual thrower. I thought I was seeing a change the last three weeks , but then Sunday happened and I am wondering if I was wrong. He’s made some improvements in addition to taking some of the underneath stuff. But he’s moved the needle from a 52% passer to a 59% passer. I really liked his last 3 weeks before Baltimore. But Sunday was a rough one. All QBs have ups and downs, especially one that was considered very green a 7-point jump which I expect will finish at at least 60% would be a great improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Whew caught up on this gem of a thread. @thebandit27my favorite part from jrober was when he was so pumped to be riding the tannehill wave with his fantasy team. Isn’t he having a career year in efficiency metrics now on his second contract but QBs unlike TEs are done developing after 2 years. were 9-4 and he’s still learning. Let the kid keeping winning and growing. Super interested in how he rebounds again? Kid has shown he can get up from a bad play or game and deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts