Mr. WEO Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said: What continues? He’s averaging 211 yards a game. That’s not great. But you go ahead and keep sniffing his jock. Hmmmm....interesting. Keep going. What other passing stats have forced you to conclude he's "below average". Is it his completion %? His number of TDs? His TD to INT ratio? His YPA? His TD ratio? His passer rating? He's top 5-6 (for full season starters) in these categories. Be very specific---I can be convinced by a strong argument! Have at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Im hoping the ravens are drained after a big game and come in flat next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Benching Murphy is the best thing you can do if you want to stop the run. He's terrible at rush D. We'll need to play cover 0 and 8 in the box all day. Have Tre cover Andrews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: We'll need to play cover 0 and 8 in the box all day. Have Tre cover Andrews. But not on the line. great blocking schemes from Baltimore and Roman. They ran the heavy and have 3 very decent TEs. not sure how we domite them up front. San Fran plays/ed stout and well. Hope Bills are seriously studying the tape. perhaps we truly need to outscore an opponent next week. Cowboys game says we can do that. wow this game is the biggest game of the year coming up. Love it ! 18 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Dude you are hilarious, Murphy is playing fine and if we run our nickel they will score 60 points. Murphy actually plays the edge very well. and he sure will need to keep the ball inside of the tackles to force it to LBs and safeties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: But not on the line. great blocking schemes from Baltimore and Roman. They ran the heavy and have 3 very decent TEs. not sure how we domite them up front. San Fran plays/ed stout and well. Hope Bills are seriously studying the tape. perhaps we truly need to outscore an opponent next week. Cowboys game says we can do that. wow this game is the biggest game of the year coming up. Love it ! Murphy actually plays the edge very well. and he sure will need to keep the ball inside of the tackles to force it to LBs and safeties the Murphy hate reminds me of Chris Kelsay , since Murph doesn't get sacks every play then he is obviously no good, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) I will admit that this was the first game for either of these teams that I have watched this season. My immediate takeaways are that the 49ers did not look that spectacular, and Jimmy G looked average. Their D did a pretty good job of stopping the run, with the one obvious exception of not being able to stop Jackson. Man, he fooled them time, and time again with play fakes! I lost count of how many tackles their running backs received while not having the ball! That is something we are going to have to address. If we don't fall into that trap, and we stop the run, I think we have a decent chance to hold the Ravens to the number of points they had today. I think our D backfield can handle their receivers. I know it was raining, but I was surprised that Jackson didn't look more accurate. I'm sure we're going to be 8 point dogs to these guys-- or thereabout. But, I think we have a good shot at them. Singletary should do well against them, and so should Allen. Edited December 1, 2019 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Bills Fan Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Hmmmm....interesting. Keep going. What other passing stats have forced you to conclude he's "below average". Is it his completion %? His number of TDs? His TD to INT ratio? His YPA? His TD ratio? His passer rating? He's top 5-6 (for full season starters) in these categories. Be very specific---I can be convinced by a strong argument! Have at it. I consider him a below average passer since they had to devise a gimmick offense for him. I would bet that with a full offseason to break it down that next year it won’t be as successful. 3 tight ends and very few passes over 6-10 yards doesn’t seem like long term success to me. But hey, I could be wrong, they are 10-2 and have beaten some good teams. I would argue that teams are catching up to their passing game. His 4 highest yardage total games were the first four games of the season. In his last 8 games he’s had 3 over 200 yards passing and 5 under. Edited December 2, 2019 by Southern Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: might need to ignore it and play lots of zone. I can't see a spy working, patriots got smashed doing that. We play a base zone so we will probably stick with that and use a 7 man front instead of our usual 6. Probably due some 8 man fronts too. You can’t ignore Baltimore’s run game. If you do that they’ll run over you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You can’t ignore Baltimore’s run game. If you do that they’ll run over you. i was referring to the motion, obviously cant ignore the run game, thats what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 5 hours ago, ILBillsfan said: Watching this game and seeing bad gap responsibilities by the DE’s over committing to the inside run. From my first days playing DE it was preached your responsibility is the QB and you trust the other guys to stop the RB yet every run Jackson has had the DE is sucking in to the RB and not maintaining their responsibility in the QB. Hope our DE’s are watching how not to defend Jackson because when has passed his tendency to be inaccurate has shown up It’s not an accident that Jackson’s #1 receiver is Andrews, his TE and #3, his other TE Boyle. He can lob the ball in Andrew’s general direction and Andrews will do whatever it takes to tuck it away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just now, Southern Bills Fan said: I consider him a below average passer since they had to devise a gimmick offense for him. I would bet that with a full offseason to break it down that next year it won’t be as successful. 3 tight ends and very few passes over 6-10 yards doesn’t seem like long term success to me. But hey, I could be wrong, they are 10-2 and have beaten some good teams. Why would they build a more "YPG" passing game around a QB who cannot be stopped when he is rushing? That makes no sense as a criticism. His average "air yards" per pass is 6.5, 7th in the NFL and more thanAllen and Mahomes. No one averages more than 8. His YPA is greater than Allen's. To put it simply, he's so good at running, they don't need him to pass as often as other teams. And when he does pass, he's a very good passer. 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It’s not an accident that Jackson’s #1 receiver is Andrews, his TE and #3, his other TE Boyle. He can lob the ball in Andrew’s general direction and Andrews will do whatever it takes to tuck it away. Yet he's tied for only 19th for QBs in YAC.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Bills Fan Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: Why would they build a more "YPG" passing game around a QB who cannot be stopped when he is rushing? That makes no sense as a criticism. His average "air yards" per pass is 6.5, 7th in the NFL and more thanAllen and Mahomes. No one averages more than 8. His YPA is greater than Allen's. To put it simply, he's so good at running, they don't need him to pass as often as other teams. And when he does pass, he's a very good passer. I guess that’s where we disagree. He will eventually get dinged up running so much and he’s not a good enough passer to make up for it if that’s taken away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said: I guess that’s where we disagree. He will eventually get dinged up running so much and he’s not a good enough passer to make up for it if that’s taken away. Your only stat isn YPG. You've given no evidence that he's not a good passer. I've given you all the evidence to the contrary. You can "disagree" with all the evidence, I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Bills Fan Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Your only stat isn YPG. You've given no evidence that he's not a good passer. I've given you all the evidence to the contrary. You can "disagree" with all the evidence, I guess... So you’re one of those d bags that thinks they “won” the argument? My opinion is different, he will be done as a starter in 3-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Yet he's tied for only 19th for QBs in YAC.... The “yet” implies that this is somehow contradicting what I said, but I view it as confirmatory 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: The “yet” implies that this is somehow contradicting what I said, but I view it as confirmatory Most other QBs lob the ball to their receivers and get more yards after that than Jackson does. So the point didn't distinguish him as a guy who did what you said.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Most other QBs lob the ball to their receivers and get more yards after that than Jackson does. So the point didn't distinguish him as a guy who did what you said.. The phrase “most other QB” is too vague to debate. Accurate passing QB don’t lob the ball - they throw with precise placement. While Jackson is certainly capable of a number of precision passes and will throw accurately into tight windows, Andrews is a big guy with a top-notch ability to adjust on the ball. He doesn’t get a lot of YAC, because he has to dive or go up or come back. The other WR don’t necessarily get a lot of YAC because they’re often tightly covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Bills need to limit explosive plays. Jackson struggled today in the red zone when the field was shorter and everything speeds up a little more. Tucker is a great field goal kicker so he won’t be missing any from inside 50 yards unless weather is atrocious. Lamar is playing great nobody can deny that. What happens in 3-5 years from now doesn’t matter to next week. i’m glad Leslie and Sean get a couple extra days to draw up some schemes that maybe Lamar hasn’t seen or they have found some Lamar hasn’t seen yet. Baltimore D continually allowed SF to get the edge on running plays. This opened the middle of the field up for passing. SF looked good except for Shanahan making a few questionable decisions. SF D is really good and they have better D ends than the Bills do. Other than that I think Buffalo is equal or better talent wise on D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregPersons Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 This is a winnable matchup if Edmunds & Milano can avoid getting juked out of their shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: The phrase “most other QB” is too vague to debate. Accurate passing QB don’t lob the ball - they throw with precise placement. While Jackson is certainly capable of a number of precision passes and will throw accurately into tight windows, Andrews is a big guy with a top-notch ability to adjust on the ball. He doesn’t get a lot of YAC, because he has to dive or go up or come back. The other WR don’t necessarily get a lot of YAC because they’re often tightly covered. 19TH in YAC He doesn't just lob the ball. Of full time starters, he's #3 in 1st down % passing (40.1). His YPC is top 5. Despite being 24th in attempts, he is leading the league in TDs. He is #10 in passes over 40 yards. To summarize (again), he is a very efficient passer. He throws downfield (top 5 YPA, only 19th YAC) for a lot of 1st downs and TDs. That's all far better than "most QBs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: 19TH in YAC He doesn't just lob the ball. Of full time starters, he's #3 in 1st down % passing (40.1). His YPC is top 5. Despite being 24th in attempts, he is leading the league in TDs. He is #10 in passes over 40 yards. To summarize (again), he is a very efficient passer. He throws downfield (top 5 YPA, only 19th YAC) for a lot of 1st downs and TDs. That's all far better than "most QBs". Do you not bother to read what someone writes, or are you just incapable of processing and acknowledging it? I could go through here one by one and point out where you’re “straw manning” claims I didn’t make and failing to respond to points I did make, but what would be the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Do you not bother to read what someone writes, or are you just incapable of processing and acknowledging it? I could go through here one by one and point out where you’re “straw manning” claims I didn’t make and failing to respond to points I did make, but what would be the point? I’ll give it a shot! If you are on a health kick going into the new year, and you believe some “exercise in futility” could help your plan, then......maybe? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Do you not bother to read what someone writes, or are you just incapable of processing and acknowledging it? I could go through here one by one and point out where you’re “straw manning” claims I didn’t make and failing to respond to points I did make, but what would be the point? You said, allowing for some "tight window" passing on occasion, that Jackson, unlike "accurate passing QBs" who "throw with accurate placement", just "lobs" the ball to a TE. I showed you, specifically, how that was not true. Show me my straw man counter(s) to your "lobber" claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Dude you are hilarious, Murphy is playing fine and if we run our nickel they will score 60 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Southern Bills Fan said: So you’re one of those d bags that thinks they “won” the argument? My opinion is different, he will be done as a starter in 3-4 years. Here's the problem...Jackson is ranked super high in yards per attempt, and below avg in yards after catch. You are basing your opinion on him saying he only completes short passes. Well, that is completely impossible given those two stats. Your opinion, or at least part of it, is factually wrong (like if I said tomorrow the sun will come up green). You can admit you based a part of your opinion on false info/facts (try it sometime it's liberating to admit you were wrong...perfection is the enemy of progress and all), but regardless of that piece, it doesn't matter because you still think he is going to get hurt running, which is the most important thing for your opinion by far, and you are saying that because of that he will not maintain this level for his career...that's a solid opinion. That said, the come back there is Donavan McNabb, who was able to change his game and become a pocket passer. Jackson has shown the potential to do that already if you look at the stats. The comeback to that is, well that's because defenses have to play the run, so those passing lanes are open, and if he loses the run, then he gets complex coverages and will not be able to maintain those passing stats. You get to that point you can say well, we're just going to have to agree to disagree, but these are the facts I am basing my opinion on. You seem to have stalled in the process of the full process and melted a bit when someone provided solid facts to challenge your opinion. Let me guess, you hate snowflakes? The irony... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Bills Fan Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 His stats have basically declined each game this season. As I said, his 4 best games were the first four games of the year. His worst 4 games have come in the past 6 games. I was pointing out how teams may be figuring the offense out and with a full offseason I believe it will be greatly diminished. You are trying to use full season stats to prove your point when they are greatly skewed by the first 4 games. So maybe it is you that is “factually wrong”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said: His stats have basically declined each game this season. As I said, his 4 best games were the first four games of the year. His worst 4 games have come in the past 6 games. I was pointing out how teams may be figuring the offense out and with a full offseason I believe it will be greatly diminished. You are trying to use full season stats to prove your point when they are greatly skewed by the first 4 games. So maybe it is you that is “factually wrong”. Didn't he not play the 4th quarter of a bunch of games though recently? I think you might be using total yards per game, but there is a lot that goes into that (running out clocks once you get a huge lead for example, which if the falcons did, they would have a super bowl, or not playing entire 4th quarters is another)...maybe only look at number of yards in the first half, or as others have suggested yards per attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 35 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said: His stats have basically declined each game this season. As I said, his 4 best games were the first four games of the year. His worst 4 games have come in the past 6 games. I was pointing out how teams may be figuring the offense out and with a full offseason I believe it will be greatly diminished. You are trying to use full season stats to prove your point when they are greatly skewed by the first 4 games. So maybe it is you that is “factually wrong”. IMO a few people are confusing where Jackson is developmentally with how he’s performing in Romans scheme with the Ravens current personnel. The scheme and his running ability force defenders to abandon coverage responsibilities... Today’s game aside, Jackson’s rushing yards per attempt (7.1) is in line with Allen’s last year (7.1) and he has few TD runs than JA. However, he has certainly completed more passes. IMO you can’t just use total averages or the past few games with these running QBs. You have to look at total output, red zone efficiency and 3rd down conversion %. In general these kids are going to be a bit inconsistent their first 3-5 seasons.... What would worry me long term (aside from injury) is his continued success as personnel changes... Can he continue to improve, and can Roman adapt his scheme and playcalling? To this point the league has caught up with every incarnation of Romans offense after 2-3 years. So we sit here debating whether this Ravens offense is stoppable... Of course it is. Just like the Rams or Chiefs offense. However, that doesn’t mean that there are many teams (or any) with the personnel to snuff it out. The way that O is configured defenses basically have to decide where to allow the Ravens to run; inside with Ingram or outside with Jackson. The jet sweeps are window dressing that’ll be contained if you’re playing to control the edges. Ingram reduces the effectiveness of the big nickel SD employed last season, so any team that snuffs them is going to need LBers with the athleticism to contain Jackson as opposed to spying with an extra safety coupled with D linemen strong enough to hold ground and make plays unless doubled... You almost need a Pat Williams/Sam Adams pairing coupled with modern fast LBers and ends that contain. IDK if that’ll work, but those type of D’s worked pretty well against Vick. Of course you could hit QBs and light up receivers back then which helped the D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billever76 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Bills need to limit explosive plays. Jackson struggled today in the red zone when the field was shorter and everything speeds up a little more. Tucker is a great field goal kicker so he won’t be missing any from inside 50 yards unless weather is atrocious. Lamar is playing great nobody can deny that. What happens in 3-5 years from now doesn’t matter to next week. i’m glad Leslie and Sean get a couple extra days to draw up some schemes that maybe Lamar hasn’t seen or they have found some Lamar hasn’t seen yet. Baltimore D continually allowed SF to get the edge on running plays. This opened the middle of the field up for passing. SF looked good except for Shanahan making a few questionable decisions. SF D is really good and they have better D ends than the Bills do. Other than that I think Buffalo is equal or better talent wise on D. Ill go one step farther and say edmunds and milano match up much better than the niners lbers with the ravens...our lbers can co er and can close sideline to sideline fast....Bills just have to play sound gap defense and man to man on the outside recievers....lamar has a hard time hitting his wideouts with consistency...most lamars yards and high completion percentage is from busted plays of being overly aggressive to the run amd misdirection or from one of his three TE taking the 4 or 5 yard dink and dunks...combine that with ingram and that rpo offense...this is not the offense you play bend but dont break on imo...lamar isnt going to beat you deep to his wideouts its going to be huge chunk yards on the cutbacks or over the middle from selling out against the run leaving his TES one on one...stack the box,bracket the tes and man to man outside is our best chance imo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelius Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Hoping for bad weather to take away the Justin Tucker advantage more so than anything else. He's automatic right now, might be the best ever in his prime. Hauschka better be feeling it this weekend if we're able to keep it close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 22 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You can’t ignore Baltimore’s run game. If you do that they’ll run over you. and that has been our weakness. Admittedly Bills have tightened up as the season and then the game goes on. I think most of us said oh "snap" when Elliot took off. Happens each weak in the 1st quarter. Ravens have a fine fullback and solid TEs who like to block, plus lineman who can move and move others. Going to be a great game ! best game of the Year imho Go Bills ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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