Was Daboll talking Allen through pre-snap coverages yesterday?

[whatdrought 6,855]

I personally don't care, and I would be shocked if it isn't happening in every team and for every OC. At least some form of eye in the sky assistance. That being said, I think Allen is better at adapting to things post snap (largely because of his elusiveness and mobility) than Goff, so I don't worry about that. I also think that less of the problem with Goff is that people figured out to wait till 15 seconds to move, but rather it's that the offense is completely scheme based. If the scheme doesn't break someone wide open (which it does often) and Goff is forced to make reads and find the man, thats when he struggles. It's a simple matter of the NFL figuring out McVey and innovation having a natural limitation. I also don't think we have to worry about Allen being stunted if they are doing that, as he is still making reads and seeing the field - he did very well with that this week.

 

 

Also, Orlovsky is such an Anti-Allen shill, even his praises have to be moderate, while he slurps all over Sammy boy:

 

 

 

 

 

This isn't my reasoning for calling him anti-allen, that's been pretty consistent since pre-draft.. This is just an example. 

 

Edited November 19 by whatdrought

[TheProcess 504]

Just win. All that matters. 

[Hapless Bills Fan 10,863]

18 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I personally don't care, and I would be shocked if it isn't happening in every team and for every OC. At least some form of eye in the sky assistance. That being said, I think Allen is better at adapting to things post snap (largely because of his elusiveness and mobility) than Goff, so I don't worry about that. I also think that less of the problem with Goff is that people figured out to wait till 15 seconds to move, but rather it's that the offense is completely scheme based. If the scheme doesn't break someone wide open (which it does often) and Goff is forced to make reads and find the man, thats when he struggles. It's a simple matter of the NFL figuring out McVey and innovation having a natural limitation. I also don't think we have to worry about Allen being stunted if they are doing that, as he is still making reads and seeing the field - he did very well with that this week.

 

 

Also, Orlovsky is such an Anti-Allen shill, even his praises have to be moderate, while he slurps all over Sammy boy:

 

 

 

 

 

This isn't my reasoning for calling him anti-allen, that's been pretty consistent since pre-draft.. This is just an example. 

 

 

Wait.  We incorporate a ton of RPOs?  Help me out here @Buffalo716 @GunnerBill @thebandit27 @YoloinOhio

 

Perhaps I would not know an RPO if it bit me on the buttocks, but I do not see 'em much less a "Ton"

OK, maybe I've seen 1-2 plays a game that I thought were RPO, but usually I think it's Daboll faking the run on what's really a pass play all the way.

[whatdrought 6,855]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wait.  We incorporate a ton of RPOs?  Help me out here @Buffalo716 @GunnerBill @thebandit27 @YoloinOhio

 

Perhaps I would not know an RPO if it bit me on the buttocks, but I do not see 'em much less a "Ton"

 

"We can tell that the RPO is being utilized because the QB is in the shotgun formation and there is a runningback in the stadium somewhere." - Analysts

[NC Book 334]

I always wondered why they didn't put some alert buzzer of some kind on the qb so if there's a blindside rusher untouched, the coach just clicks a button so the qb knows to get rid of it asap. Code Red, Code Red!

[Hapless Bills Fan 10,863]

26 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

"We can tell that the RPO is being utilized because the QB is in the shotgun formation and there is a runningback in the stadium somewhere." - Analysts

 

Orlovsky played 10 years in the league, in theory he ought to know what he sees.  I guess my question is, has he actually watched our games and SEEN a ton of RPO, or did he see 1-2 and make the assumption?

 

 

[eball 6,345]

3 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Hmm, Archuleta was slamming the Bills

and Allen for repeatedly snapping the ball

with so much time left on the play clock when up by 10.

 

It makes more sense now. 

I disagree, the Bills were actually playing aggressively and not sitting on a 10-pt lead with most of the 4th quarter remaining. I’d wager it had zero to do with Daboll calling coverages for him. 
 

Good god, the conspiracy theories some will reach for around here. 

[Troll Toll 394]

I feel like I can recall Josh making adjustments inside 10 seconds a fair amount yesterday. He scored high on the Wonderlic. I really think things are just coming together for him more than anything else, the kid is learning doggone it!

[Richard Noggin 295]

1 hour ago, london_bills said:

If memory serves me correctly Daboll started out in the booth, when results weren't there he came down to 'hold players accountable' from what I remember mcdermott saying. 

This. He began last season in the booth, then came down to help the rookie. 

 

At least, that's my memory of it, too.

 

Maybe fearlessness includes not holding the QB's hand on the sideline on game day?

[rayray808 455]

I wish I could whisper in Josh’s helmet

[Richard Noggin 295]

49 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wait.  We incorporate a ton of RPOs?  Help me out here @Buffalo716 @GunnerBill @thebandit27 @YoloinOhio

 

Perhaps I would not know an RPO if it bit me on the buttocks, but I do not see 'em much less a "Ton"

OK, maybe I've seen 1-2 plays a game that I thought were RPO, but usually I think it's Daboll faking the run on what's really a pass play all the way.

I definitely saw at least 2-3 RPOs yesterday, and it surprised me enough that my viewing group discussed it for a bit during the game. 

 

Doesn't mean Daboll hasn't called them previously; but something about the design or execution of them yesterday really stood out in real time...

[Hapless Bills Fan 10,863]

27 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

I definitely saw at least 2-3 RPOs yesterday, and it surprised me enough that my viewing group discussed it for a bit during the game. 

Doesn't mean Daboll hasn't called them previously; but something about the design or execution of them yesterday really stood out in real time...

 

OK, so in retrospect I think I remember 1-2

You and your viewing group saw 2-3

 

Bills had 67 offensive plays on Sunday

 

What would constitute "a ton" to you?  More than 3 out of 67 plays, I would think.

 

My understanding is that an RPO is a good way to overcome teams stacking the box to stop the run, which seems like an alternative we need, because Allen is not at a point where he can carry the team on his arm against good physical man coverage where our WR struggle to get open or are being mauled. 

 

So I'm all for it.  I'm just surprised to learn we're running it "a ton"

[Hapless Bills Fan 10,863]

37 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

This. He began last season in the booth, then came down to help the rookie. 

At least, that's my memory of it, too.

Maybe fearlessness includes not holding the QB's hand on the sideline on game day?

 

I dunno about "handholding", but last season we had a WR coach coaching QBs - he may be an excellent coach, but he doesn't have that "been there experienced that" perspective.  Until a good way into the season, we had no experienced vet QB who knew the system.  So Allen would come off the field and be on his own looking at pictures and trying to figure things out.  It made a lot of sense to bring Daboll out of the booth and have him on the sideline to interact and provide feedback.

 

We have a real QB coach and a vet backup familiar with the system to talk things through with Allen, so it makes sense to move Daboll back up where he can see more and perhaps get the playcalls in more quickly

 

I really have the feeling that McDermott encouraged, if not directed, Daboll to explore this alternative after the "operational issue" that cost time vs the Browns.

[Buffalo716 3,695]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wait.  We incorporate a ton of RPOs?  Help me out here @Buffalo716 @GunnerBill @thebandit27 @YoloinOhio

 

Perhaps I would not know an RPO if it bit me on the buttocks, but I do not see 'em much less a "Ton"

OK, maybe I've seen 1-2 plays a game that I thought were RPO, but usually I think it's Daboll faking the run on what's really a pass play all the way.

I haven't actually counted how many times we run it a game but it looks like a few to me. Maybe 3-5... Definitely don't think around 10

 

Allen will usually ride the fake longer on an RPO where he usually has a quicker real play fake

[Ethan in Portland 951]

5 hours ago, TroutDog said:

Here’s an option: let Josh develop in the trajectory you expected him to. I’d prefer no Bellicheat theatrics in this organization. Can it help with a single win against an inferior opponent? Sure! But that’s not the point with Josh. 
 

Everyone has to be thinking about the long game (a golf reference for the uninitiated)...next year and beyond. 

It's not cheating.

We don't even now if it made a difference.  And how do you know even if it did help that it would stunt his growth long term.

Win now by any means necessary, worry about tomorrow another day

[billspro 1,351]

5 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Hmm, Archuleta was slamming the Bills

and Allen for repeatedly snapping the ball

with so much time left on the play clock when up by 10.

 

It makes more sense now. 

 

Thats an old school take. If your confident go score points and win the game. 

[DefenseWins 261]

I thought that Morse was allegedly the one responsible for calling out the protections? I also noticed on several occasions that our right guard seemed to be getting out of his stance and pointing at the defenders - what would that have been about?

 

[GunnerBill 8,675]

6 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

This article disputes that...it claims McVay has adjusted to virtually everything that has been done to slow them down and that Goff is holding them back because he hasn't been able to execute well enough...

 

This is from 3 games into the season but i think its gotten worse not better mostly for Goff...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2019/09/sean-mcvay-jared-goff-super-bowl-adjustments-patriots/amp

 

The article is wrong. The offense is a mess the scheme has been worked out. McVay has now basically abandoned his scheme. Goff is not blameless, but the problems in LA start with coaching. 

[CommonCents 2,449]

3 hours ago, eball said:

I disagree, the Bills were actually playing aggressively and not sitting on a 10-pt lead with most of the 4th quarter remaining. I’d wager it had zero to do with Daboll calling coverages for him. 
 

Good god, the conspiracy theories some will reach for around here. 

Conspiracy theories around here? I don’t think any of us here posed the original question. I couldn’t care less either way, after Archuleta’s comments I did notice how early in the play clock they were snapping the ball. 

 

Posters had mentioned that if they snapped the ball with 15 plus seconds that would essentially keep the mic open, that does align with what they were doing. I think it’s an interesting observation. 

 

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill 8,675]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wait.  We incorporate a ton of RPOs?  Help me out here @Buffalo716 @GunnerBill @thebandit27 @YoloinOhio

 

Perhaps I would not know an RPO if it bit me on the buttocks, but I do not see 'em much less a "Ton"

OK, maybe I've seen 1-2 plays a game that I thought were RPO, but usually I think it's Daboll faking the run on what's really a pass play all the way.

 

We certainly do not run a "ton" of RPO. There was an uptick on Sunday but nowhere near a "ton". 

[Thurman#1 1,293]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Realistically I hope that isn't the case

 

Mcvay has stunted Goffs growth as a true QB because he has always made the calls for him

 

It's easy to defend against too... Just disguise your coverage until under 15 seconds on the clock

 

You need to be able to see things pre and post snap and be able to recognize them

 

 

Disguising your coverage till under 15 seconds would work ... unless you snap when they start to change their alignment.

 

And while I'm willing to believe that McVay might've stunted Goff's growth, I'm pretty sure there might be a way to do it so that doesn't happen. For instance, have Daboll talk to him over the next three or four games and get Allen used to how Daboll thinks ... and then taper off gradually. Maybe gradually change from telling him what you see to asking him questions about what he sees. I think that might be very helpful for his development. Potentially, anyway.

Edited November 19 by Thurman#1

[Doc Brown 4,238]

7 hours ago, stony said:

Whatever it was, it worked. I prefer Daboll up high on game days. 

Until Allen has a bad game and then he needs to be back on the sidelines  

 

Edited November 19 by Doc Brown

[Thurman#1 1,293]

3 hours ago, eball said:

I disagree, the Bills were actually playing aggressively and not sitting on a 10-pt lead with most of the 4th quarter remaining. I’d wager it had zero to do with Daboll calling coverages for him. 
 

Good god, the conspiracy theories some will reach for around here. 

 

 

You can play aggressively without sacrificing your ability to run the clock down. No matter how aggressive your play calls are, running the clock down when we were ahead by two possessions simply makes sense. We should have been doing it.

 

This is about the only theory that makes sense as to why we should have been snapping so fast.

[Thurman#1 1,293]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK, so in retrospect I think I remember 1-2

You and your viewing group saw 2-3

 

Bills had 67 offensive plays on Sunday

 

What would constitute "a ton" to you?  More than 3 out of 67 plays, I would think.

 

My understanding is that an RPO is a good way to overcome teams stacking the box to stop the run, which seems like an alternative we need, because Allen is not at a point where he can carry the team on his arm against good physical man coverage where our WR struggle to get open or are being mauled. 

 

So I'm all for it.  I'm just surprised to learn we're running it "a ton"

 

 

Fair enough either way, IMO.

 

If it's less than, say, five, that's less than a ton ... 

 

... unless you compare it to teams across the NFL. How often does Atlanta run RPO? Or Denver? Are we a top ten RPO team in terms of percentages? Top seven? And if we are, isn't that a ton?

 

Could go either way, I think. But whatever, really.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Until Allen has a bad game and then he needs to be back on the sidelines  

 

 

 

Heh heh. Yup.

Edited November 19 by Thurman#1

[Joe in Winslow 10,690]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is part of the reason. Though the Rams were never a gimmick offense. They weren't the Bears. The Rams were running a quite traditional offense with lots of window dressing. 

 

The much bigger part of the reason Goff looks lost is McVay is lost. His offense has been worked out and forced him to adjust and he can't. Goff needs to play better but go watch the all 22 of a Rams game the past 6 weeks..... nobody can get open and there are not creases for the run game. 

 

Could say the same for the other wunderkind, pederson.