Jump to content
pennstate10

Hughes non-TD

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

I don't know shooter. 

In the clip you linked, you can't see the ball the instant it leaves his hand. But it looks like the release point is just over the yard line, and the ball hits the ground just at the yard line. If it's a millimeter behind, then it's a backward pass, by definition. 

How could the officials a be so certain that the ball went forward. Certainly not based on that clip. 

 

on this video of looks like the football never hit the ground in which case, it's a pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

It's only a fumble when we run the play, like last year.  

I do seem to remember this but can not recall any specifics, can you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

 

Ive got to say it stunning how many people don't understand this play. 

 

Did the ball clearly go forward?

 

yes or no?

 

from the replays I saw,there was no evidence that the ballwent forward. 

 

If if it didn't clearly go forward,then it's a backward pass and a TD for buffalo. 

 

The replay officials reversed the call.  

 

Where  is the clear irrefutable evidence that the ballwent forward?

 

A pretty simple question; I've not seen the answer in these 4 pages. 

 

Please realize that the answer has to be a picture or video or statement from an expert who has reviewed same. 

 

All the rest,especially comments from the Pats fan,is simply a waste of electrons. 


so who is the Pats Fan. It was clearly a incomplete pass. Game said. Salvatore said. Only ones that are not agreeing are the ones that want to put this on the refs 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:


so who is the Pats Fan. It was clearly a incomplete pass. Game said. Salvatore said. Only ones that are not agreeing are the ones that want to put this on the refs 

In this thread I’ve argued it appears to be a lateral and I stand by that. However, I’m not blaming the refs for this loss. I’m most disappointed and frustrated that this team looked like a gritty playoff squad (tough for 60 minutes) through Week 4 and since the Bye they look like they have been mailing it in effort-wise. Poor effort tackling, missed blocks   on offense, and receivers that nonchalantly drop pass after pass. I’m not seeing players hold themselves accountable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, JK Fan said:

Yes, it was a forward pass.  The Bills run the same play every week with McKenzie.  The idea is to drop and let the player catch it.  

This is exactly it though. He dropped it. the ball didn't move forward. It went literally straight down from the time it left his hands. It is no different than a runner dropping the ball straight down. When Josh does it, the ball moves forward, hence it is then a forward pass.

 

And you know they didn't even look at it, as the referee announced that "the Quarterback's arm was moving forward when he lost control of the ball" which CLEARLY wasn't even the issue at hand. They didn't even look at it, they just gave it to the Browns.

13 hours ago, Richmond_Bills said:

Oh my god people.  The ball went forward.  It went through Hunts arms who was IN FRONT of Mayfield.  

This means nothing. If i hold my arms out in front of me and drop the ball, it doesn't matter if the runner is in front of me. I still dropped the ball straight down. So every time a runner is behind the LOS, he should just hold the ball in front of him because then if he drops it, it's a forward pass?

Edited by CLTbills

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ball still has t to move forward for it to be an incomplete pass. His hands going forward do not matter if the ball doesn’t go forward.  In my opinion there is no clear evidence the ball went forward. None

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Last year they took one away from allen called it a fumble.

 

NFL should change this rule. 


My brother said there was a similar play in a Pats game a couple weeks ago and it was called fumble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tell me people aren’t really trying to pretend the refs got the call wrong.  
 

Lmao, it’s literally 100% indisputable, it was an incomplete pass.  Ball was IN FRONT of the QB...case closed.  
 

5 pages about a play that has 0 room for argument?  
 

We lost because our kicker missed 2 FGs.  We lost because our offense didn’t do enough that made 2 missed FGs the deciding factor.  We lost because Daboll sucks.  We lost because our D only played tough at goal Lina but let too many drives get there.  We lost for a lot of reasons.  
 

But we did NOT lose because of this Hughes play, it was 100% without question an incomplete pass.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, BananaB said:


My brother said there was a similar play in a Pats game a couple weeks ago and it was called fumble

 

that settles it then

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:


so who is the Pats Fan. It was clearly a incomplete pass. Game said. Salvatore said. Only ones that are not agreeing are the ones that want to put this on the refs 

 

Troll...

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Tell me people aren’t really trying to pretend the refs got the call wrong.  
 

Lmao, it’s literally 100% indisputable, it was an incomplete pass.  Ball was IN FRONT of the QB...case closed.  
 

5 pages about a play that has 0 room for argument?  
 

We lost because our kicker missed 2 FGs.  We lost because our offense didn’t do enough that made 2 missed FGs the deciding factor.  We lost because Daboll sucks.  We lost because our D only played tough at goal Lina but let too many drives get there.  We lost for a lot of reasons.  
 

But we did NOT lose because of this Hughes play, it was 100% without question an incomplete pass.  

 

Not disputing that the Bills had plenty of chances... but the reason there's so much discussion is some people are applying the 'lateral justification' point of the ball from release to point of the ball when it hits the ground.  That rule calls this a fumble if you don't think the ball moved forward.  Bakers arm goes up towards the sky, not from behind his head forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Jobot said:

 

Troll...

 

Not disputing that the Bills had plenty of chances... but the reason there's so much discussion is some people are applying the 'lateral justification' point of the ball from release to point of the ball when it hits the ground.  That rule calls this a fumble if you don't think the ball moved forward.  Bakers arm goes up towards the sky, not from behind his head forward.


Its only a fumble of the QB tosses the ball backwards.  Everything else is incomplete pass.  
 

The QB had the ball in front of him, the ball was released there.  The ball was not tossed backward in any capacity.  All that equals incomplete pass.

 

There isn’t a ref in the world that rule that play anything other than an incomplete pass.  
 

My point is, there are a lot of reasons why we lost...lots to discuss on those.  This was not in anyway shape or form a reason why we lost and nothing really to debate.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the play on review was obviously a forward pass, kind of weasely but still a forward pass

 

why is anyone still arguing about this?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

They tried to explain that his arm was moving forward underhand to justify it as a forward pass. Like a softball pitch that slipped out of your hand.

Yes, not sure if it was covered by anyone because I haven't had the chance to go through the whole thread, but Lofton actually explained the rule well earlier in the game when Josh Allen had one called an incomplete pass.  Once the arm is going forward, even if something happens like the defender twists the quarterback or it comes out of the hand in such a way so that the ball goes backward, it is an incomplete pass.  It doesn't matter where the ball ends up once the quarterback's arm is moving forward.....a bit like the tuck rule.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Jobot said:

 

Troll...

 

Not disputing that the Bills had plenty of chances... but the reason there's so much discussion is some people are applying the 'lateral justification' point of the ball from release to point of the ball when it hits the ground.  That rule calls this a fumble if you don't think the ball moved forward.  Bakers arm goes up towards the sky, not from behind his head forward.


so I am a troll because I don’t agree with your view seen thru Bills Glasses?

  • Haha (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:


so I am a troll because I don’t agree with your view seen thru Bills Glasses?

 

Troll because you stubbornly hold to your views regardless of logic after proven incorrect :)

44 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:


Its only a fumble of the QB tosses the ball backwards.  Everything else is incomplete pass.  
 

The QB had the ball in front of him, the ball was released there.  The ball was not tossed backward in any capacity.  All that equals incomplete pass.

 

There isn’t a ref in the world that rule that play anything other than an incomplete pass.  
 

My point is, there are a lot of reasons why we lost...lots to discuss on those.  This was not in anyway shape or form a reason why we lost and nothing really to debate.  

 

"Not-forward" aka "lateral" is also a fumble.  It doesn't have to go backwards to be a fumble, it just has to go forward to not be a fumble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rule 8 Forward Pass, Backward Pass, Fumble Section 1 Forward Pass

DEFINITION Article 1 Definition

It is a forward pass if:

(a) the ball initially moves forward (to a point nearer the opponent’s goal line) after leaving the passer’s hand(s); or

(b) the ball first strikes the ground, a player, an official, or anything else at a point that is nearer the opponent’s goal line than the point at which the ball leaves the passer’s hand(s).

 

IN CONCLUSION.....The point at which the ball hit the ground was not closer to the opponent's goal line than were Bakers hands!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i just watched the replay over and over.  its not the best angle but it looks like the ball initially moves forward after leaving his hand.  so only a or b from the rule definition needs to occur. part a occured.  the call was correct.

Edited by Beach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

I get it wasn't a fumble. 

Was it a forward pass?

from the views shown, it looked like the ball went straight down, not forward, from the instant it left his hand.

in which case it was a backward pass, recoverable by the defense. 

I too would like a better explanation. 

 

1. Some facts first:

 

a. Yes the QB's arm was moving forward before he released the ball

b. Not sure if the ball is moving forward (so it is different from the Josh Allen sweeps).

c. you need irrefutable proof to overturn the call on the field

 

I understand it is not a fumble if a QB's hand is moving forward as he is being hit. But Mayfield was not being hit here. So the fumble criterion should not be arm moving forward (which is what the ref said), but whether it was a lateral pass. A lateral pass occurs when the ball carrier throws the football to a teammate in a direction parallel to or away from the opponents' goal line. Do we have irrefutable evidence this was a forward pass? Dammit - in the Music City Miracle, they said we cant conclusively determine if it was a forward pass or lateral - so ruling on the field stands. Now since they overruled the call, NFL should tell us the refs could conclusively determine that it was not a lateral - and the explanation should have nothing to do with whether Mayfield's arm was moving forward or not. It is very much possible to throw a backward pass with the arm moving forward - just slow / stop the forward motion and use your wrists. 

 

Edited by IgotBILLStopay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Richmond_Bills said:

Oh my god people.  The ball went forward.  It went through Hunts arms who was IN FRONT of Mayfield.  

yes hunt was ahead of Mayfield. But watch where Mayfield's arm is when he releases the ball and where it lands (behind Hunt) - I dont know if angle is wrong - but the more I look at it - it seems the ball is definitely not going forward ..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, MAJBobby said:


It was the right call. That is why every team runs those plays. Takes the Fumble out of Play. And it was forward Baker was deeper than Hunt and ball went thru Hunts arms 

I'm digging the new avatar.  What was the bet and who was it with?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Beach said:

i just watched the replay over and over.  its not the best angle but it looks like the ball initially moves forward after leaving his hand.  so only a or b from the rule definition needs to occur. part a occured.  the call was correct.

 

If it initially moves forward, unless it is a boomerang or it is the wind, it cannot end up backward when Hunt is touching it - which is what appears to happen. The only explanation can be that the camera was moving.

 

It is much better to use the line on the field to make the determination of whether it is moving forward or backward.

Edited by IgotBILLStopay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

 

It looks like it’s going forward to me 

 

Great idea to start this clip right in the middle of the action in question. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

When I saw it at full speed I thought we just won the game. As soon as I saw the replay I knew it was coming back.

My first two emotions exactly - but now I have watched many times in slow motion and I cant make out at all that the ball is moving forward. I am now more inclined to believe they shoulda let the call stand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

I don't know shooter. 

In the clip you linked, you can't see the ball the instant it leaves his hand. But it looks like the release point is just over the yard line, and the ball hits the ground just at the yard line. If it's a millimeter behind, then it's a backward pass, by definition. 

How could the officials a be so certain that the ball went forward. Certainly not based on that clip. 

I will go even further. It has to be a millimeter ahead for it to be a forward pass.Parallel is still a lateral.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...