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ChevyVanMiller

Looking for a reason why Beane should make a big trade before the deadline? Look no further than John Dorsey.

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"John Dorsey was fired as GM of the Chiefs in June 2017, six months after the team finished a 12-4 season and less than two months after he drafted Patrick Mahomes."

Found this interesting factoid in an ESPN article about why current NFL GMs are trading way more than their counterparts of just 5 years ago did. Crazy to think that a guy could get canned after a season like that and then making a trade up and hitting on a true franchise QB.

 

Just goes to show that it's a win-in-the-playoffs league and swinging for the fences by moving draft capital isn't the awful idea it was once considered to be.

 

Here's the full article : https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27919597/why-nfl-trades-increased-four-reasons-why-deadline-no-longer-dud

 

 

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IMO, it's really just the teams with a franchise/reliable starter QB that can afford to trade away picks IAW the article's main points.  Otherwise, picks are still coveted as a team stockpiles them to draft at the top.

Edited by In Summary
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33 minutes ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

"John Dorsey was fired as GM of the Chiefs in June 2017, six months after the team finished a 12-4 season and less than two months after he drafted Patrick Mahomes."

Found this interesting factoid in an ESPN article about why current NFL GMs are trading way more than their counterparts of just 5 years ago did. Crazy to think that a guy could get canned after a season like that and then making a trade up and hitting on a true franchise QB.

 

Just goes to show that it's a win-in-the-playoffs league and swinging for the fences by moving draft capital isn't the awful idea it was once considered to be.

 

Here's the full article : https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27919597/why-nfl-trades-increased-four-reasons-why-deadline-no-longer-dud

 

 

Well at that time, I don't think anyone really knew what the Chiefs had in Mahommes....

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Honestly, do you think a 12-4 season that doesn't end up in the Super Bowl is going to get Beane fired?

 

Beane is running this franchise not to be a one and done flash.  He wants to create a long-term, winning team.  He does not expect to win it all this year although obviously he would take it if it happened.  He's thinking about 3 and 4 years from now, when next spring's draft picks are the core of the 2023 team.  This is the process they're always talking about.

Draft picks are important from a cap management standpoint.  Teams use draft picks as relatively cheap labor for a few years.  The players who prove themselves get retained, and those who are marginal performers are replaced with the next batch.  Even the players who get cut get to come on board and make a lot more than most people make for a few years, so it's not like these are retail store managers who get burned and turned.

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If you have a very good QB and a strong coaching staff then you have the luxury of trading away picks.  If you are still building those picks are huge.   I think the Bills are still one year away from shedding first/second rounders to maintain playoff expectations.  I don’t see a significant trade this year. 

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1 hour ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

"John Dorsey was fired as GM of the Chiefs in June 2017, six months after the team finished a 12-4 season and less than two months after he drafted Patrick Mahomes."

Found this interesting factoid in an ESPN article about why current NFL GMs are trading way more than their counterparts of just 5 years ago did. Crazy to think that a guy could get canned after a season like that and then making a trade up and hitting on a true franchise QB.

 

Just goes to show that it's a win-in-the-playoffs league and swinging for the fences by moving draft capital isn't the awful idea it was once considered to be.

 

Here's the full article : https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27919597/why-nfl-trades-increased-four-reasons-why-deadline-no-longer-dud

 

 

 

The season Record is not always the reason GMs are fired. However Beane has been on his role 2.5 years. 

 

In that time hes:

 

- completely resolved the cap.  

- Drafted a high potential QB for the offense and the defense. 

- solidified the back up QBs position  

- put/kept together a top defense with young talent 

- rebuilt an offensive line from trash to treasure

- completely overhauled a WR corp, RB room and tight end room 

 

Is the winningest Bills gm since John Butler (that’s 20 years ago folks) 

 

Anyone thinking he’s going anywhere anytime soon for job performance is delusional 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood
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1 hour ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

"John Dorsey was fired as GM of the Chiefs in June 2017, six months after the team finished a 12-4 season and less than two months after he drafted Patrick Mahomes."

Found this interesting factoid in an ESPN article about why current NFL GMs are trading way more than their counterparts of just 5 years ago did. Crazy to think that a guy could get canned after a season like that and then making a trade up and hitting on a true franchise QB.

 

Just goes to show that it's a win-in-the-playoffs league and swinging for the fences by moving draft capital isn't the awful idea it was once considered to be.

 

Here's the full article : https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27919597/why-nfl-trades-increased-four-reasons-why-deadline-no-longer-dud

 

 

 

I don't think that's the full story on Dorsey " fired as GM of the Chiefs in June 2017, six months after the team finished a 12-4 season and less than two months after he drafted Patrick Mahomes".  The Chiefs had salary cap issues.  Bad salary cap issues.  There were conflicts where allegedly Reid had been promised control over personnel matters but Dorsey had been promised the same personnel control as other GMs.  Basically I think it was more a "personality conflict" thing with cap issues tossed in.

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I mean, I don’t see how a couple examples of guys losing internal power struggles and or being scape-goated means that GM’s should be more bold with trading... 

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1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

The season Record is not always the reason GMs are fired. 

 

Beane has been on his role 2.5 years. 

 

In that time hes

 

- completely resolved the cap.  

- Drafted a high potential QB for the offense and the defense. 

- solidified the back up QBs position  

- put/kept together a top defense with young talent 

- rebuilt an offensive line from trash to treasure

- completely overhauled a WR corp, RB room and tight end room 

 

Is the winningest Bills gm since John Butler (that’s 20 years ago folks) 

 

Anyone thinking he’s going anywhere anytime soon for job performance is delusional 

He's not going anwhere....

But since you brought it up,

1. He created the cap mess with his trades/cuts

2. So far so good with Allen but still has a long way to prove his is a franchise QB

3. Oline is average but all in all the players he signed have done well. He cant be blamed for Incognito and Wood. But he continued his practice of overpaying for guys(see Star and Murphy) Morse is highest paid center in the league and he barely makes the top 10 in performance.  Feliciano is far better than I thought. Nsekhe is below average. Long is a waste of money. 

4. WR group is a mess but he had a significant hand in making. He traded away Watkins and traded for KB( a move I thought was good at the time). He made great signing in Brown. Beasley so far is ok. 

 

Don't agree with not picking up 5th year option on Lawson.  

 

Wallace is looking like a great find. Foster not so much anymore. Duke is TBD.

 

I am admittedly biased to win now mode. They will never have a better schedule, they are relatively healthy, and they have a chance for a deep playoff run in a weak AFC. I don't care about draft picks next year, I want a proven pass rusher and a player that can stretch the defense. 

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37 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Honestly, do you think a 12-4 season that doesn't end up in the Super Bowl is going to get Beane fired?

 

Beane is running this franchise not to be a one and done flash.  He wants to create a long-term, winning team.  He does not expect to win it all this year although obviously he would take it if it happened.  He's thinking about 3 and 4 years from now, when next spring's draft picks are the core of the 2023 team.  This is the process they're always talking about.

Draft picks are important from a cap management standpoint.  Teams use draft picks as relatively cheap labor for a few years.  The players who prove themselves get retained, and those who are marginal performers are replaced with the next batch.  Even the players who get cut get to come on board and make a lot more than most people make for a few years, so it's not like these are retail store managers who get burned and turned.

From a cap management standpoint, do you think we need $40M in space every year? 

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15 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I mean, I don’t see how a couple examples of guys losing internal power struggles and or being scape-goated means that GM’s should be more bold with trading... 

 

Correct sir...  that’s exactly what it doesn’t mean. 

 

In my view, What it does mean is the walls of secrecy between organizations have eroded a bit with the media probing and news cycle.... GMs collaborate more than they used to, because there are win-win deals out there.  It seems Team’s now are more introspective than ever about whether they are ready to win now or building to win later and are able to orchestrate exchanges of resources accordingly.  

 

I think it’s more to do with a youth movement in the gm ranks and a wave of pragmatism and analytical thinking permeating sports management  

 

And by youth I mean 40 years olds replacing 70 year olds.... which just brought along new modes of operation 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood
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Just now, CaptnCoke11 said:

Hold on to our picks and sign our own guys with contracts coming up.  

We have $88M in space next year not counting future rookie contracts. We don’t need that much space.

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12 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

The season Record is not always the reason GMs are fired. However Beane has been on his role 2.5 years. 

 

In that time hes:

 

- completely resolved the cap.  

- Drafted a high potential QB for the offense and the defense. 

- solidified the back up QBs position  

- put/kept together a top defense with young talent 

- rebuilt an offensive line from trash to treasure

- completely overhauled a WR corp, RB room and tight end room 

 

Is the winningest Bills gm since John Butler (that’s 20 years ago folks) 

 

Anyone thinking he’s going anywhere anytime soon for job performance is delusional 

 

...so then we should expect "mea culpas" from the "...Fire McBeane....fire McDermott Gang" soon, right?......SMH.....organizationally, we are in equal shape if not better than to Polian era.......of course 17 years of "F Troop" making a mockery of OBD created some itchy trigger fingers and irrational exuberance for instantaneous success..... was NEVER gonna happen....making the playoffs, acknowledging a gritty effort year aided by Dalton engineered "Immaculate Reception" PREMATURELY raised the expectation bar for 2018 when the Bflo stars perfectly aligned.......logically it was a cleanup year with cap constraints, need to house clean the dead wood and make some stop gap signings to hopefully remain competitive....and also a year with a stellar draft......rinse and repeat stellar draft in 2019....if you don't think the McBeane/McDermott tandem has us on the most solid footing in years now and with a long term plan, I don't know what the hell to tell you IMO....

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41 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Honestly, do you think a 12-4 season that doesn't end up in the Super Bowl is going to get Beane fired?

 

Beane is running this franchise not to be a one and done flash.  He wants to create a long-term, winning team.  He does not expect to win it all this year although obviously he would take it if it happened.  He's thinking about 3 and 4 years from now, when next spring's draft picks are the core of the 2023 team.  This is the process they're always talking about.

Draft picks are important from a cap management standpoint.  Teams use draft picks as relatively cheap labor for a few years.  The players who prove themselves get retained, and those who are marginal performers are replaced with the next batch.  Even the players who get cut get to come on board and make a lot more than most people make for a few years, so it's not like these are retail store managers who get burned and turned.

To put it succinctly, what happened to the Chiefs is not generalizable to other teams and is actually an outlier example.

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Just now, BringBackOrton said:

We have $88M in space next year not counting future rookie contracts. We don’t need that much space.

They’ll most definitely need a lot of it if they want to re-sign a lot of these guys

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Just now, CaptnCoke11 said:

They’ll most definitely need a lot of it if they want to re-sign a lot of these guys

How much? What FA’s are you locking up this offseason? Let’s do some math.

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7 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

They’ll most definitely need a lot of it if they want to re-sign a lot of these guys

No they don't. They already extended Hughes and Hauschka.  Poyer and Hyde are under contract. 

They have basically said they arent bringing Shaq back with how he is being used. Nsekhe and Feliciano signed two year deals.

That leaves Spain and nobody else. 

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2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...so then we should expect "mea culpas" from the "...Fire McBeane....fire McDermott Gang" soon, right?......SMH.....organizationally, we are in equal shape if not better than to Polian era.......of course 17 years of "F Troop" making a mockery of OBD created some itchy trigger fingers and irrational exuberance for instantaneous success..... was NEVER gonna happen....making the playoffs, acknowledging a gritty effort year aided by Dalton engineered "Immaculate Reception" PREMATURELY raised the expectation bar for 2018 when the Bflo stars perfectly aligned.......logically it was a cleanup year with cap constraints, need to house clean the dead wood and make some stop gap signings to hopefully remain competitive....and also a year with a stellar draft......rinse and repeat stellar draft in 2019....if you don't think the McBeane/McDermott tandem has us on the most solid footing in years now and with a long term plan, I don't know what the hell to tell you IMO....

The fire McBeane crowd will show again, wait for a loss, they will be acreaming that we should have signed Antonio Brown or Beckham, won the Super Bowl this year then drop into mediocrity like we did for 15 years; it's coming!

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...so then we should expect "mea culpas" from the "...Fire McBeane....fire McDermott Gang" soon, right?......SMH.....organizationally, we are in equal shape if not better than to Polian era.......of course 17 years of "F Troop" making a mockery of OBD created some itchy trigger fingers and irrational exuberance for instantaneous success..... was NEVER gonna happen....making the playoffs, acknowledging a gritty effort year aided by Dalton engineered "Immaculate Reception" PREMATURELY raised the expectation bar for 2018 when the Bflo stars perfectly aligned.......logically it was a cleanup year with cap constraints, need to house clean the dead wood and make some stop gap signings to hopefully remain competitive....and also a year with a stellar draft......rinse and repeat stellar draft in 2019....if you don't think the McBeane/McDermott tandem has us on the most solid footing in years now and with a long term plan, I don't know what the hell to tell you IMO....

Man they want it now!

2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

From a cap management standpoint, do you think we need $40M in space every year? 

Why not - gives you freedom to make the "RIGHT" move!

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Beane is the on the hot seat if he doesn’t make “a big trade”?

 

 

Because...John Dorsey

 

i love this place.

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2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Hold on to our picks and sign our own guys with contracts coming up.  

 

I like the way we draft, and I value our picks immensely. Having said that, if our FO feels like there’s a deal worth making....I’ll trust them and hope for the best. What other choice do I have? 

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We will need alot to keep Jordan Phillips, which I have to t

hink theyll do.

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15 minutes ago, vorpma said:

The fire McBeane crowd will show again, wait for a loss, they will be acreaming that we should have signed Antonio Brown or Beckham, won the Super Bowl this year then drop into mediocrity like we did for 15 years; it's coming!

Man they want it now!

Why not - gives you freedom to make the "RIGHT" move!

No one can seem to define the “right move” except for Beane not doing anything.

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2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

No they don't. They already extended Hughes and Hauschka.  Poyer and Hyde are under contract. 

They have basically said they arent bringing Shaq back with how he is being used. Nsekhe and Feliciano signed two year deals.

That leaves Spain and nobody else. 

I for one think Poyer is not going to be resigned. With the flashes that J. Johnson showed during preseason he will be groomed to take Poyers spot.

Im not saying Poyer isnt good but i dont see him as a game changer. 

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