Mango Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 What is it about the two leagues or sports that have such different turn around times when diagnosed with a concussion. In the NFL if a guy misses 3 weeks for a concussion, it is an eternity. JA and a ton of other players come back the next week. A guy like Sidney Crosby misses almost a year. 30% of the NHL misses at least 10 days before going back to practice. The NFL averages about 6 days. Seems like one league/sport is treading more carefully than the other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Pat LaFontaine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Two concussion threads started within an hour makes my head hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, I am the egg man said: Two concussion threads started within an hour makes my head hurt. ? One is a joke. Thought it was a reasonable topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 NHL has guaranteed contracts and the NFL doesn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 Just now, row_33 said: NHL has guaranteed contracts and the NFL doesn't Are you saying that NHL teams are protecting their assets better because they have to pay them anyways, and the NFL doesn’t care because of the money line? Or that NHL players are willing to take more time off because they’re getting paid anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mango said: Are you saying that NHL teams are protecting their assets better because they have to pay them anyways, and the NFL doesn’t care because of the money line? Or that NHL players are willing to take more time off because they’re getting paid anyways? the NHL is used to stars taking time off, a few great careers have ended a little early due to concussion the NFL has no time for esoteric injuries, you play if you can get out there, broken bones and all (i'm not endorsing this view but i still watch every week...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) NHL is a much longer, more physical (overall) season. Missing a few more games in a NHL season doesn't hurt as much as it does is the very short NFL season. The NHL does tend to error on the side of caution much more so than the NFL. Not just it's star players, but everyone. Your guess is as good as mine as to why that is so. But with every game being so important to the standings in the NFL, and coaches/GMs jobs depending largely on standings, ultimately I think that is the root cause. Edited October 4, 2019 by CodeMonkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Mango said: What is it about the two leagues or sports that have such different turn around times when diagnosed with a concussion. In the NFL if a guy misses 3 weeks for a concussion, it is an eternity. JA and a ton of other players come back the next week. A guy like Sidney Crosby misses almost a year. 30% of the NHL misses at least 10 days before going back to practice. The NFL averages about 6 days. Seems like one league/sport is treading more carefully than the other. The 2 biggest differences is the schedule and the IR rules. It has little to do with treatment. NFL - the player is on the active roster and the team can let him sit for essentially a week before being in the next game. They cannot use IR to bring additional players in and the missing 1 NFL game is equivalent to missing over 5 NHL games - which for Buffalo Sabres - 5 games missed would mean the next game from last night would be 10/17 - a full 2 weeks after the 1st game. NHL - they have a 7 day IR available- so if they get even a minor concussion they will be placed on that and get replaced by an active player. This allows a minimum of 7 days - plus any additional days before the next game. If a Sabre got concussed last night and went on the 7 day IR - their next game would be 10/14 - 10 days after the concussion - even if he was cleared prior to the 7 days - he would still be missing the days. It is very hard to equate the two sports between the rules and the timing of the games. Looking at it both seem to clear most players in 5-7 days - for the NFL that gets them ready for the next game - In the NHL they miss more games, but a smaller percentage of the season and the individual player is not missed because of the 7 day IR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Mango said: What is it about the two leagues or sports that have such different turn around times when diagnosed with a concussion. In the NFL if a guy misses 3 weeks for a concussion, it is an eternity. JA and a ton of other players come back the next week. A guy like Sidney Crosby misses almost a year. 30% of the NHL misses at least 10 days before going back to practice. The NFL averages about 6 days. Seems like one league/sport is treading more carefully than the other. Do you have a link to the data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 There are short ones in the NHL too. But it is true it seems most in the NFL are done with quickly. At least now they are on it, from officials to observers to even... the players. Even a tough guy like Gore asked to be checked for one (game 1 or 2?) . Thankfully he came back, but just the fact he could ask and that he did is a HUGE step up. I know of NHLers treated by a friend of mine for concussions (for their neck, cranium and jaw injuries that clear the way to concussion recovery) and many HID them, as they were bubble players and some in contract negotiation. So it'll be an ongoing issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 What is this "NHL" thing? I'd seriously like to watch and learn whether or not I actually like it, but it is completely absent in Oklahoma television programming. I have been to one minor league game - Tulsa Oilers, and I hated it. The only thing that got the croud into the game was a few fights. the big screen just kept playing reruns again and again. I went with a pastor and a couple of uppity ups in the church and they were as blood thirsty as the rest of the crowd. We all had our young children with us. I was completely un entertained. FYI, No, I havent been to church since my Bible thumping ex wife stepped out with the next door neighbor. Some of yall remember that tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Ice is hard. Boards too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 4 hours ago, Mango said: What is it about the two leagues or sports that have such different turn around times when diagnosed with a concussion. In the NFL if a guy misses 3 weeks for a concussion, it is an eternity. JA and a ton of other players come back the next week. A guy like Sidney Crosby misses almost a year. 30% of the NHL misses at least 10 days before going back to practice. The NFL averages about 6 days. Seems like one league/sport is treading more carefully than the other. because football plays less games so there is less chance of getting reinjured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 29 minutes ago, MJS said: Do you have a link to the data? Yeah. I wasn’t able to find a more current study on the NHL, but for early to mid 2000’s it was trending up pretty quickly. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.992112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 4 hours ago, I am the egg man said: Two concussion threads started within an hour makes my head hurt. Sounds like you are in stage 2 of the protocol 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, Mango said: Yeah. I wasn’t able to find a more current study on the NHL, but for early to mid 2000’s it was trending up pretty quickly. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.992112 Does that have the NFL numbers too? A cursory look only had NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, MJS said: Does that have the NFL numbers too? A cursory look only had NHL. I originally read an old article. Just found this one which is more up to date. I guess NFL players spend an average of 16 days off the field now. Feels like that isn’t the case. But I guess it is. Probably just seems that way because of guys like Allen or Tyrod who are down for just a bit. Then you see a guy like crosby basically lose a season. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2604023 basically this deems my entire post invalid until I can find updated NHL data. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 5 hours ago, Mango said: What is it about the two leagues or sports that have such different turn around times when diagnosed with a concussion. In the NFL if a guy misses 3 weeks for a concussion, it is an eternity. JA and a ton of other players come back the next week. A guy like Sidney Crosby misses almost a year. 30% of the NHL misses at least 10 days before going back to practice. The NFL averages about 6 days. Seems like one league/sport is treading more carefully than the other. Maybe it's because hockey season is 18 months long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) the ice speed of hockey players colliding is often faster than man running, and NHL men on the blue line carry a significant larger amount of mass than an NFL DB, the boards cause a sudden stop as well adding to the impact, ice is less forgiving than a football field for impact as well. i have never felt concern for an NFL hit as i have for dozens of hockey hits this one was a big deal, seems like yesterday. Edited October 4, 2019 by row_33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 49 minutes ago, PolishPrince said: Sounds like you are in stage 2 of the protocol I played organized youth hockey and football ages 9-16. ('68-'75) Got my "bell wrung" more times than I can remember. Last few years of football they'd wave smelling salts under our noses to bring us around. The good old days, when pain was a badge of honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Honestly, the NFL sees itself as a product, not a sport. Josh getting speared and the NFL not blinking an eye is a pretty glaring example. The same happens to Brady and the NFL would *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, Gugny said: Maybe it's because hockey season is 18 months long. Season length shouldn’t have an effect on recovery time. You’ve either recovered or you haven’t. At least not without putting serious long term health in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mango said: Season length shouldn’t have an effect on recovery time. You’ve either recovered or you haven’t. At least not without putting serious long term health in question. hockey hits are often at higher velocity and the players tend to have more mass to contribute and after viewing the hardest of NHL hits, most were delivered without a clue that they were coming, no chance to brace oneself, in the NFL you have to be expecting to get hit hard every time you are carrying the ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 In theory, an NFL player does not clear protocol until he can participate in a non contact practice and his brain scan remains at base. The only thing I think they could do to be more cautious is to require a scan following participation in a contact practice situation, to see if his scan is still baseline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 8 hours ago, Mango said: I originally read an old article. Just found this one which is more up to date. I guess NFL players spend an average of 16 days off the field now. Feels like that isn’t the case. But I guess it is. Probably just seems that way because of guys like Allen or Tyrod who are down for just a bit. Then you see a guy like crosby basically lose a season. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2604023 basically this deems my entire post invalid until I can find updated NHL data. ? Yeah, you see guys miss a long time in the NFL too, so I was initially surprised by your 6 day number. But regardless, concussions are an issue and teams are always juggling their desire to win with their desire to keep their guys healthy. Always a tough position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Are the hits in hockey that cause concussions happening at a greater rate of speed and velocity than NFL hits, thus producing more injurious results ? While NFL football is a far more physically taxing game than hockey ( no way you couldn’t play that many games and have enough healthy bodies in football) the speeds hockey players reach flying around the ice would appear greater than a player that is running on grass or turf. Maybe I’m way off base, idk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 14 hours ago, row_33 said: Pat LaFontaine... It made me sick to witness the cheap shots on LaFontaine. Guys couldn't slow him down...so they resorted to violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 51 minutes ago, Rocket94 said: It made me sick to witness the cheap shots on LaFontaine. Guys couldn't slow him down...so they resorted to violence. yup, that was a horrible cheap shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, row_33 said: yup, that was a horrible cheap shot I remember his 1997 good bye to Buffalo message in the Buffalo news. Great player, great guy. 15 hours ago, row_33 said: Pat LaFontaine... It made me sick to witness the cheap shots on LaFontaine. Guys couldn't slow him down...so they resorted to violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 20 hours ago, Mango said: What is it about the two leagues or sports that have such different turn around times when diagnosed with a concussion. In the NFL if a guy misses 3 weeks for a concussion, it is an eternity. JA and a ton of other players come back the next week. A guy like Sidney Crosby misses almost a year. 30% of the NHL misses at least 10 days before going back to practice. The NFL averages about 6 days. Seems like one league/sport is treading more carefully than the other. 82 games vs 16 games. run those numbers with that in mind and % of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 19 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: The 2 biggest differences is the schedule and the IR rules. It has little to do with treatment. NFL - the player is on the active roster and the team can let him sit for essentially a week before being in the next game. They cannot use IR to bring additional players in and the missing 1 NFL game is equivalent to missing over 5 NHL games - which for Buffalo Sabres - 5 games missed would mean the next game from last night would be 10/17 - a full 2 weeks after the 1st game. NHL - they have a 7 day IR available- so if they get even a minor concussion they will be placed on that and get replaced by an active player. This allows a minimum of 7 days - plus any additional days before the next game. If a Sabre got concussed last night and went on the 7 day IR - their next game would be 10/14 - 10 days after the concussion - even if he was cleared prior to the 7 days - he would still be missing the days. It is very hard to equate the two sports between the rules and the timing of the games. Looking at it both seem to clear most players in 5-7 days - for the NFL that gets them ready for the next game - In the NHL they miss more games, but a smaller percentage of the season and the individual player is not missed because of the 7 day IR. But it’s not the team clearing guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, NoSaint said: But it’s not the team clearing guys No, but you don’t think that has an impact on when guys get tested? Overall the data shows little difference for most players in clearance. The difference seems mostly dictated in when the games are played. The other big difference is the NFL takes players off at a sign of a big hit to the head - getting the player out of the game. The NHL it still seems to be a major emphasis on the player and in some cases it might be shifts or even days after the hit that caused the concussion before the player is diagnosed and I think the NHL misses significantly more concussions than the NFL - so the ones they find are a tad bit worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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