Mass shooting at El Paso Walmart/and also Dayton OH

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's a terribly sad tragedy

 

But 2 maniacs cannot punish all of the law abiding citizens which out number them 20 million to 1

Yes they can (punish) when those two maniacs are causing, random social chaos.

 

It's just not 2 maniacs anymore... The ranks are growing.

 

It's like raising a young kid.  The child go ballistic during supper in restaurant... The whole family suffers... The parents walk... They don't get to sit and enjoy their whole meal while they lay down idle threats... The child will just act out again. The rest of the diners?  Unfortunately, their meal is disrupted... But they shouldn't complain.

 

Sorry... We have to make hard choices that affect all... Until we get a firm handle on the situation.

 

"Tonight the house was mouse-still except for some beam

That, whisper or creak, complained of the years it had borne

The weight of reality and the human dream

As the real became more real, and the real more forlorn.

Outside, I wondered why I had come here and where

I would go, and back-looking now, saw the tracks of my bare

Dark footprints set in the moonlit dew like snow,

And thought:  I must go where they go, for they must know where to go."

 

~ From “The Moonlight’s Dream” by U.S. Poet Laureate Robert Penn Warren

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's a terribly sad tragedy

 

But 2 maniacs cannot punish all of the law abiding citizens which out number them 20 million to 1

But what if there are over 200 maniacs so far this year alone?  All other countries have violent video games, mental health issues, violent movie etc.  the sad part about this is it becomes a political debate.  Not wanting to hear about people getting randomly murdered should transcend political backgrounds.  

 

 

But lets keep doing nothing.  It seems to be working.  It’s just sad that some many people accept this as normal.  Walmart, churches, schools.  Yet we do nothing.   You can love this country and also be sad that this has become our new norm.  Odds are given how often this happen, it’s going to affect someone you (maybe yourself). It would be nice if something came out of innocent people getting murdered.  Something, anything.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Donald Trump on Monday called on lawmakers to pass strong gun background checks 

[SoTier]

On 8/3/2019 at 7:50 PM, Boca BIlls said:

TBH these have always been happening 

 

Actually, they have not.  There have been many incidents of mob violence throughout US history, much of it against people of color, and there have been incidents where 1 or 2 individuals have occasionally murdered a several people over a period of time, usually hours or days.  The incidence of random mass shootings in public places, schools or workplaces by 1 or 2 individuals has increased significantly in the 21st century, and the number and severity of these incidents in the last decade has spiked, coinciding with the rise of domestic hate groups.

 

On 8/4/2019 at 7:25 AM, mead107 said:

https://www.thelily.com/1077-people-have-been-killed-in-mass-shootings-since-a-1966-incident-at-the-university-of-texas/

 

how can you stop nut cases.  

In this day and age you can’t say anything about anybody or group with out offending someone or group of people. 

 

Sad world. 

 

How can you stop "nut cases"?  How about NOT ENCOURAGING HATRED????   The El Paso murderer was a white supremacist who posted some kind of manifesto on a web site that attracts white supremacists/xenophobes.  Why hasn't the POTUS, who has repeatedly stoked racism and xenophobia on Twitter, condemned white supremacy and xenophobia?   Why haven't leading Republicans?   Ivanka Trump is the only Republican who has had the "balls" to offend the racists that Trump and Republican Party have courted for years by condemning white supremacy.  When the POTUS and a major political party give tacit approval to hatred of immigrants and people of color, it's not a far stretch for "nut cases" to decide to act on that hatred.

 

On 8/4/2019 at 7:30 AM, Boca BIlls said:

More people in this world bring more crime. Simple as that. Same % of crazy people but just more of them in this world. 

 

You won't see this die down until something kills most of this human race. It is coming b.c either the earth will correct what we are doing by killing us or something else will do it.

 

Nonsense.  These mass shootings aren't "crime".  They are acts of terrorism, and most of them in the last few years have been committed by white supremacists.

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

Mass shootings are not “acts of terrorism”.

 

Words have meanings, and it’s dishonest to attempt to massage and manipulate the meanings of words because it comports well with your personal politics.

 

Its also absurd to attribute these crimes to a specific race, cause, or ideology; these crimes have been committed by whites, blacks, Arabs, Asians, etc.  they have been committed by registered Democrats and registered Republicans.

 

The common themes seem to be mental illness, and cultlike radicalization in social media echo-chambers.

[SoTier]

20 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Media has always been a tool of the powerful and always will be.  

It's up to the citizens to sort through the propaganda, from all sides.

 

Exactly this. 

 

When Thomas Jefferson, that great defender of "individual rights", repeatedly tried to silence his critics, especially the ones who mocked him for his relationship with Sally Hemmings.

 

William Randolph Hearst and his cohorts fomented the hysteria that led to the Spanish American War.

 

 

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

Its also absurd to attribute these crimes to a specific race, cause, or ideology; these crimes have been committed by whites, blacks, Arabs, Asians, etc.  they have been committed by registered Democrats and registered Republicans.

 

Correct.  These crimes are being committed by American citizens, most of whom obtained their weapons legally.

 

But we're being told that MS-13 and all of those rapist, murderous Mexicans are the biggest threat to our society.

 

Mentally ill U.S. citizens with legal access to firearms are the biggest threat to our society.  Ignored signs - blatant signs - are the problem.  Turning a blind eye to mental illness is the problem.

[TakeYouToTasker]

6 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Correct.  These crimes are being committed by American citizens, most of whom obtained their weapons legally.

 

But we're being told that MS-13 and all of those rapist, murderous Mexicans are the biggest threat to our society.

 

Mentally ill U.S. citizens with legal access to firearms are the biggest threat to our society.  Ignored signs - blatant signs - are the problem.  Turning a blind eye to mental illness is the problem.

 

I don’t think it needs to be an either/or proposition.

 

Reasonable people should be able to agree that mass shootings resulting from mental illness and online radicalization are problematic, but so to are the thousands of murders a year by violent gang members like MS-13, as well as the thousands of children sex-trafficked across our southern border.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[SoTier]

8 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

Mass shootings are not “acts of terrorism”.

 

Words have meanings, and it’s dishonest to attempt to massage and manipulate the meanings of words because it comports well with your personal politics.

 

Its also absurd to attribute these crimes to a specific race, cause, or ideology; these crimes have been committed by whites, blacks, Arabs, Asians, etc.  they have been committed by registered Democrats and registered Republicans.

 

The common themes seem to be mental illness, and cultlike radicalization in social media echo-chambers.

 

Look up the meaning of terrorism.   Count up the number of mass shootings in the last 20 years committed by whites, blacks, Arabs, and Asians, and then repeat your claim.  Sadly, you'll find out that most mass murderers are white males -- by a large margin.    I am not talking about registered voters.  I'm talking about politicians, our supposed leaders.  The Republican Party has been playing on racism since Richard Nixon's "Southern Strategy" of the 1970s, and the current Republican President has repeatedly stoked racism on social media.

 

Hatred is not mental illness, so don't stigmatize the mentally ill by lumping them with mass murders.   These mass murderers aren't acting irrationally.  Most plan their killing sprees over time, collecting their weapons, making their plans, writing their manifestos.  They're filled with hatred towards people who have done nothing to them.  As somebody said elsewhere, other countries have mental illness and social media, but they don't have anything like the incidence of random mass shootings that the US has.

[Deranged Rhino]

...Any updates on the Las Vegas shooting -- including motive?

 

(curious, ain't it?)

[T&C]

Then there's this kind of crap going on now, this was around 5 miles from here:

 

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/crime/2019/08/05/man-accused-of-making-threat-he-would-shoot-hillsborough-county-walmart

[RaoulDuke79]

5 minutes ago, T&C said:

Then there's this kind of crap going on now, this was around 5 miles from here:

 

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/crime/2019/08/05/man-accused-of-making-threat-he-would-shoot-hillsborough-county-walmart

As far as I'm concerned there should have been no bond set and he should have been detained until a full medical evaluation could be performed. If found mentally competent he should be jailed, if not he should be detained in some type of mental asylum. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by RaoulDuke79

[ExiledInIllinois]

49 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

...Any updates on the Las Vegas shooting -- including motive?

 

(curious, ain't it?)

Oh the grand conspiracy.  To the Antarctic ice wall stat!

 

Okay... It's like Kazakhstan (Right Nationalists) playing Thailand (Leftists) in ice-hockey... 

 

The score is still 52 to 1 Einstein in an otherwise ***** hockey game... Unless you're fans of Kazakhstan ice hockey!

 

Anyway the extremists are both fugged up.  That's the point.

 

[And please Mods, this is pretty civil... You can't just let a subtle MSM conspiracy jab go un counter-punched]

 

/smh

Edited August 5, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

7 minutes ago, T&C said:

Then there's this kind of crap going on now, this was around 5 miles from here:

 

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/crime/2019/08/05/man-accused-of-making-threat-he-would-shoot-hillsborough-county-walmart

was just going to post that.

 

Quote

The suspect, Wayne Padgett, 31, told police he was "intrigued" by recent shootings and specifically cited the massacre at an El Paso, Texas Walmart on Saturday that left 20 people dead, a spokeswoman for the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office told Business Insider. Two Walmart employees were killed in a separate shooting at a Walmart store in Southaven, Mississippi, last week.

 

Padgett, whose mother is a Walmart employee, was arrested Sunday on a felony charge of making a false report of using a firearm in a violent manner, authorities said.

 

Padgett allegedly called a Walmart supercenter in Gibsonton, Florida, at 1:17 p.m. on Sunday and told a Walmart employee that he was five minutes from the store and planned to "shoot up" the store when he arrived, the police spokeswoman said.

 

The Walmart employee reported the call to his manager, who called 911 and immediately initiated an evacuation of the store. Police arrived on the scene within two minutes and began searching for an active shooter.

 

Several hours later, police arrested Padgett. Padgett admitted to making the call, blocking his phone number, and deleting his call history, but did not admit to making the threat, police said.

 

[T&C]

9 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

As far as I'm concerned there should have been no bond set and he should have been detained until a full medical evaluation could be performed. If found mentally competent he should be jailed, if not he should be jailed detained in some type of mental asylum. 

Agreed, that's the first thing that I thought too. I mean, this was less than 24 hours ago.

[Cripple Creek]

21 hours ago, mead107 said:

Did you read how many people die from stupid people driving cars. 

TO drunk

TEXTING 

NOT PAYING ATTENTION 

that person may only kill 1-6 or more people but he didn’t use a gun.  

Just because you take a test still doesn’t make people smart. 

 

How about drugs ? 

How about cancer ?

how about old age?

This all seems very out of touch to me.  Likening someone who with forethought arms himself with weapons that will cause the most carnage, dressing in “tactical gear” and driving (possibly while speeding or texting or both) to public places to slaughter people to people dying from texting is too much. 

[Deranged Rhino]

13 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Oh the grand conspiracy. 

 

The Las Vegas shooting happened. Largest mass shooting in our country's history and we know ZERO about it or the motives of the shooter. 

 

That's not a conspiracy. That's a fact. 

 

 

 

 

The fact you don't care about finding out more about the largest mass shooting in our history -- while you do care about "counter punching" says everything we need to know about your opinions. They're not worth much at all.

 

**********************

 

 

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The Las Vegas shooting happened. Largest mass shooting in our country's history and we know ZERO about it or the motives of the shooter. 

 

That's not a conspiracy. That's a fact. 

 

 

 

 

The fact you don't care about finding out more about the largest mass shooting in our history -- while you do care about "counter punching" says everything we need to know about your opinions. They're not worth much at all.

 

**********************

 

 

 

 

I am no conspiracy theorist by any stretch.  But this particular shooting's unanswered questions have always troubled me.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Have no fear ....  Our fearless leader has got this ...  

 

Trump said 'perhaps' more needs to be done on gun control following two mass shootings. 

like background checks 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

I am no conspiracy theorist by any stretch.  But this particular shooting's unanswered questions have always troubled me.

 

 

As it should any thinking American. It has nothing to do with conspiracy or partisan politics and everything to do with wanting to find the truth about the event. 

 

The media's lack of interest in it, compared to the tragedies which followed, is also interesting. That's not a conspiratorial statement, but one of fact. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

In his first formal statement on the deadly mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, over the weekend, President Trump on Monday condemned the “evil” and “wicked” attacks that killed 29 people and injured more than 50 others.

 

The president also condemned “racism, bigotry and white supremacy” while blaming the internet, video games and “mental illness” for the massacres.

 

Yup nothing at all to do with guns and gun control.  bravo 

or the 2 or 3 years he's had to FIX this problem.  

[T&C]

7 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

In his first formal statement on the deadly mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, over the weekend, President Trump on Monday condemned the “evil” and “wicked” attacks that killed 29 people and injured more than 50 others.

 

The president also condemned “racism, bigotry and white supremacy” while blaming the internet, video games and “mental illness” for the massacres.

 

Yup nothing at all to do with guns and gun control.  bravo 

or the 2 or 3 years he's had to FIX this problem.  

I never got the guns kill angle... there is a 9mm 6' from me right now and I'm pretty sure it isn't going to jump up and start killing us. I'd have to go with the internet, video games, and mental illness.

[RaoulDuke79]

10 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

In his first formal statement on the deadly mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, over the weekend, President Trump on Monday condemned the “evil” and “wicked” attacks that killed 29 people and injured more than 50 others.

 

The president also condemned “racism, bigotry and white supremacy” while blaming the internet, video games and “mental illness” for the massacres.

 

Yup nothing at all to do with guns and gun control.  bravo 

or the 2 or 3 years he's had to FIX this problem.  

Let's be honest. No matter what he says or does it wont be enough for some. Not one or two pages ago someone was complaining that he didn't condemn white supremacy. So he's done that, but you'll never hear that person give him any credit for it. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, T&C said:

I never got the guns kill angle... there is a 9mm 6' from me right now and I'm pretty sure it isn't going to jump up and start killing us. I'd have to go with the internet, video games, and mental illness.

 

Playing video games does not make a mass murderer.   (I've been playing shoot em ups for 30 years ...  no murders so far)

 

I confess to not have followed these stories closely, but I think this has more to do with automatic weapons other than a 9 mm handgun.  

 

Just now, RaoulDuke79 said:

Let's be honest. No matter what he says or does it wont be enough for some. Not one or two pages ago someone was complaining that he didn't condemn white supremacy. So he's done that, but you'll never hear that person give him any credit for it. 

this is true.  

 

Actions are needed and not further platitudes like "Prayers and Wishes" and "we need to do something". 

 

 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

Playing video games does not make a mass murderer.   (I've been playing shoot em ups for 30 years ...  no murders so far)

 

And what would you say to someone who said: "I've been hunting and shooting guns for 30 years... no murders so far"

 

Because that's a reality too. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

And what would you say to someone who said: "I've been hunting and shooting guns for 30 years... no murders so far"

Because that's a reality too. 

Of course it is.   I own 3 guns myself. 

 

How long have people been pushing for background checks>  5 years, 10, 15, 30? 

 

Lets solve this and not keep kicking the can down the road. 

 

This shite has got to stop

 

A Southwest Ohio politician has stirred anger for a Sunday post on social media in which she blamed mass shootings on "drag queen advocates," "homosexual marriage," open borders and even former President Barack Obama. 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ohio-politician-blames-mass-shootings-103223388.html

 

Video games and now homosexuality? 

Edited August 5, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

Of course it is.   I own 3 myself. 

 

How long have people been pushing for background checks>  5 years, 10, 15, 30? 

 

Lets solve this and not keep kicking the can down the road. 

 

The solution isn't as simple as it being just one thing -- whether it be guns, games, or political ideologies.

 

The solution starts with being able to have an honest conversation about the multitude of causes without sliding into partisan mudslinging.  We've yet to show we're capable of that kind of reason and logic as a nation. Largely because those at the top in the media and politics don't want reason and logic to prevail, because it would limit their ability to sensationalize for ratings/political purposes respectively. 

 

imo  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

It also starts / ends with the people that are in the spotlight every day.

 

When you dish out derision hourly some people believe that it is now OK to repeat those actions.

When you speak of unity and community as good thing it might change minds 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

It starts with the people that are in the spotlight every day.

 

When you dish out derision hourly some people believe that it is now OK to repeat those actions.

 

 

 

I don't disagree -- but the offenders in the spotlight are bi-partisan. There isn't one side or the other that's got the moral high ground on this issue -- despite both trying to claim it. The reality is that the people in the spotlight don't want unity. They want division. That goes for politicians and pundits on the right, left, center, and fringes. They want us to be fighting with one another rather than solving the problems.

 

That's how they remain in power and in the spotlight. That's how they fund raise and raise their own personal profiles -- which in turns gives them more power, wealth, and control over the ones they pit against each other.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

Quote

 

President Trump suggested linking gun control legislation to immigration laws after the El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, mass shootings.

 

 

and IMO that will go nowhere because he wants the two tied together 

[AllenLongBall]

On 8/4/2019 at 8:44 AM, Helpmenow said:

Makes you wonder where we’re going in this country.

 

To the stars!

 

 

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I don't disagree -- but the offenders in the spotlight are bi-partisan. There isn't one side or the other that's got the moral high ground on this issue -- despite both trying to claim it. The reality is that the people in the spotlight don't want unity. They want division. That goes for politicians and pundits on the right, left, center, and fringes. They want us to be fighting with one another rather than solving the problems.

 

That's how they remain in power and in the spotlight. That's how they fund raise and raise their own personal profiles -- which in turns gives them more power, wealth, and control over the ones they pit against each other.

 

and its a reason I am all for term limits on ANY office.  

get the heard heads out and some new thinkers in 

[AllenLongBall]

32 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Yup nothing at all to do with guns and gun control.  bravo 

or the 2 or 3 years he's had to FIX this problem.  

 

Oh boy...  Gun control is a non-starter.  Guns are not the root of the problem...

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 minutes ago, AllenLongBall said:

 

Oh boy...  Gun control is a non-starter.  Guns are not the root of the problem...

 

access to them by certain people is.  

 

and these type of stories

 

Scaramucci: ‘There’s Definitely Linkage’ Between Trump’s Immigration Language and Shootings

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[AllenLongBall]

3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

access to them by certain people is.  

 

 

You have to heavily profile to find said "certain" people.  That's the issue.

 

Oh gawd, now it's Trumps fault, lol.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

President Trump Blames “Fake News” For Stoking “Anger And Rage”; Murdoch’s New York Post Calls For “Weapons Of War” Ban

Just now, AllenLongBall said:

 

You have to heavily profile to find said "certain" people.  That's the issue.

 

Oh gawd, now it's Trumps fault, lol.

yes, you do.  

 

Correct me if I am wrong - the NRA has been fighting this for a while hasn't it?  

[T&C]

El Paso death toll now 22.

 

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/ap-top-news/2019/08/03/police-warn-of-an-active-shooter-at-an-el-paso-texas-mall

[Nextmanup]

I'm not sure we have a gun problem, per se.

We have a general health crisis, and within that, a mental health crisis in this country.

 

People with mental illness all too easily fall through the cracks in this society, largely because this society is not concerned with their plight.

 

You add in easy access to firearms, and it's a powder keg waiting to explode.

 

And it does, about once a week, these days.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Nextmanup

[Buffalo716]

55 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

In his first formal statement on the deadly mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, over the weekend, President Trump on Monday condemned the “evil” and “wicked” attacks that killed 29 people and injured more than 50 others.

 

The president also condemned “racism, bigotry and white supremacy” while blaming the internet, video games and “mental illness” for the massacres.

 

Yup nothing at all to do with guns and gun control.  bravo 

or the 2 or 3 years he's had to FIX this problem.  

This is just a touchy subject my friend. We should be praying for the victims

 

But gun control won't help the problem because criminals can get guns anywhere on the black market

 

They're criminal's they break the law and that's a fact. They will get their hands on whatever they want

 

There is no easy or right answer because this is too big of a hot button issue

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Buffalo716