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YoloinOhio

Kevin Johnson making strong push for #2 CB

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Johnson is more athletic than Levi will ever be, but his durability will always be a concern. Johnson has a pedigree though and aside from his athletic ability is a really smart player. I like his upside, but I also like the fact that we have some functional depth in Gaines and Levi. As many have said, may the best man win. Competition is a good thing. 

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3 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I don’t really know. I think it’s a lame one whatever it is though...  Production-wise the bills 2014 d was right on par with that broncos d. Actually better in most key stats. I do think the broncos unit was a bit more high octane with a better ability to totally put the clamps on somebody... But we never got to see the bills unit in the playoffs due to them be a lesser TEAM. I have no clue how somebody could sit here and say that wasn’t an elite level unit. Seems you are ripping on the couple bills fans that remember when maybe you should be educating yourself so you remember as well instead of cherry picking games to prove a sub-par point. 

 

1991 eagles defense was one of the best ever, talent-wise and numbers-wise and didn’t even make the postseason. I’m sure you’ll shoot that one down with some lame points about championships too..... team game, man. 

 

 

This honestly just looks like I’m trying to discuss something with some bull-headed fan that’s not gonna use any sort of real discussion or reason in the matter just “CHAMPIONSHIPS!!! RABBLE RABBLE”

 

How about take 5 minutes to educate yourself. Or maybe you already have and just don’t care “because championships”. In which case that’s just odd to me... The “few bills fans” are actually the ones that have a bit of knowledge on the matter. Why make that sound like a bad thing? it’s a team game and that the bills defense, statistically, was comparable and honestly was on a talent level as well. Not quite as good. But comparable for sure. 

 

The most ignorant debates are the ones that start or end with “.... uhhhh because championships!!” 

 

How’d our D do in the super bowl?  Oh wait, we couldn’t stop the lowly raiders and didn’t make the playoffs while the broncos DL led them to a super bowl victory.  Talk about whatever stats you want.  I’ll talk about the only star that matters.  I’ll take the championship unit over the unit with the always inspirational Mario and Marcel.  

 

Bills fans will remember that DL.  No one else will.  Bills fans will be the only ones voting for the cold front 

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2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

How’d our D do in the super bowl?  Oh wait, we couldn’t stop the lowly raiders and didn’t make the playoffs while the broncos DL led them to a super bowl victory.  Talk about whatever stats you want.  I’ll talk about the only star that matters.  I’ll take the championship unit over the unit with the always inspirational Mario and Marcel.  

 

Bills fans will remember that DL.  No one else will.  Bills fans will be the only ones voting for the cold front 

thank you for proving my point.... great talk, bruh.

 

 

"because championship, DUH".... LOL.

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1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

thank you for proving my point.... great talk, bruh.

 

 

"because championship, DUH".... LOL.

I don’t adhere to those telling me how to debate, so you’re welcome.  I don’t care about stats.  I care about results.  The broncos offense that year was horrible.  They won the SB with a pass rush and talented corners.  

 

We had had a great dline.  One of the best in the league.  I’d take Von Miller, Demarcus Ware and crew over our guys.  Not sure why this is such a problem.  You act as if im the only “ignorant LOL” person who would say such a thing.  Wake up.  You’re the minority.  Not me.  I’m just ignorant 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I don’t adhere to those telling me how to debate, so you’re welcome.  I don’t care about stats.  I care about results.  The broncos offense that year was horrible.  They won the SB with a pass rush and talented corners.  

 

We had had a great dline.  One of the best in the league.  I’d take Von Miller, Demarcus Ware and crew over our guys.  Not sure why this is such a problem.  You act as if im the only “ignorant LOL” person who would say such a thing.  Wake up.  You’re the minority.  Not me.  I’m just ignorant 

you just sound like the average fan that cherry picks stats and games and reverts to title talk in a debate. no biggie... you probably don't know anything about that 91 eagles defense I talked about either...…. because championships.

 

BTW if that broncos offense was horrible what does that makes the bills offense from 14? they scored a point less per game and had 500  less total yds.... putrid maybe? horrendous? yet somehow they still had a winning record.....hmmmmmmmm

 

but I get it. you don't care about any sort of sensible research...… because they didn't show up for a game against the raiders. MY BAD. also you'll notice I said I think the broncos d was slightly better. that's not the issue here.

 

fans that actually know their history and do their research ARE the minority. you are correct.... you do you, boo. I think we can both agree this has gone about as far as it needs to go. you have a great day.

Edited by Stank_Nasty

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

you just sound like the average fan that cherry picks stats and games and reverts to title talk in a debate. no biggie... you probably don't know anything about that 91 eagles defense I talked about either...…. because championships.

 

BTW if that broncos offense was horrible what does that makes the bills offense from 14? they scored a point less per game and had 500  less total yds.... putrid maybe? horrendous? yet somehow they still had a winning record.....hmmmmmmmm

 

but I get it. you don't care about any sort of sensible research...… because they didn't show up for a game against the raiders. MY BAD. also you'll notice I said I think the broncos d was slightly better. that's not the issue here.

 

fans that actually know their history and do their research ARE the minority. you are correct.... you do you, boo. I think we can both agree this has gone about as far as it needs to go. you have a great day.

Reggie White, Clyde Simmons, Jerome Brown day otherwise.

 

i could careless how I sound to you.  I don’t have all morning to defend why I’d take that broncos front over ours.  

 

You’re a stats guy.  I get it.  I’m a results guy.  Yes, it takes more than one unit to win a SB but that broncos offense was terrible.  The team was carried by the defense.  

 

Edit:  ok you win, the Bills were better.  That’s what you want to hear.  Oh yeah, and I’m ignorant.  Now you can sleep better at night 

Edited by NewEra
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1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Johnson is more athletic than Levi will ever be, but his durability will always be a concern. Johnson has a pedigree though and aside from his athletic ability is a really smart player. I like his upside, but I also like the fact that we have some functional depth in Gaines and Levi. As many have said, may the best man win. Competition is a good thing. 

 

Johnson has more athletic ability but he wasn't very good his first few years.  Hopefully McD can get the best out of him, but again I think he's best-served for the Bills as the #4 or 5 CB.

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1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I don’t adhere to those telling me how to debate, so you’re welcome.  I don’t care about stats.  I care about results.  The broncos offense that year was horrible.  They won the SB with a pass rush and talented corners.  

 

We had had a great dline.  One of the best in the league.  I’d take Von Miller, Demarcus Ware and crew over our guys.  Not sure why this is such a problem.  You act as if im the only “ignorant LOL” person who would say such a thing.  Wake up.  You’re the minority.  Not me.  I’m just ignorant 

 

I'm with you and I loved the Bills DLine in that period. But Malik Jackson, Ware, Von Miller, Sylvester Williams, Derek Wolfe, Shane Ray... they had waves of talented dlinemen and rushers.

Just now, Doc said:

 

Johnson has more athletic ability but he wasn't very good his first few years.  Hopefully McD can get the best out of him, but again I think he's best-served for the Bills as the #4 or 5 CB.

 

He actually had a good rookie year. It is since then it has all gone a bit wrong for him. My nervousness about giving him the job if it is in any way close between he and Levi is that he is a 1 and done player in Buffalo if he performs because we will not pay him to keep him with one eye on paying Tre down the line. If you relegate Levi to a backup spot for a year how does that affect his longer term development?

 

My ideal is that Tre and Levi start, Johnson is the primary boundary backup with EJ Gaines and the secondary boundary backup and then Taron starts in the slot with EJ Gaines as the primary option in that role (he played some nickel to a pretty decent level with the Rams). That to me gives you a very strong top 5 and then you keep a 6th guy who is a slot corner / safety hybrid / special teamer..... that might be the only spot on the roster Siran Neal has a realistic shot at right now if he is making the 53.

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14 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

Hes just gotta stay healthy.  Talent was always there.  By the way Rob Quinn?  Grain of salt

Rob Quinn is better than half the local writers and almost all of the national. Just my two cents

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I like Wallace...I think him and Taron Johnson were uncovered gems......

 

The vets they brought in on short contracts would have to be significantly better to push them off the field if I am making the decisions on defense.

 

This does not mean they dont have a place on the team......players that show lack of durability tend to stay healthy longer when they are not played as much.

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This DB group is just stacked.  The safeties are a great tandem, and then the talent and depth at corner is insane. Tre, Levi, KJ, EJ, and Taron.   I doubt you find better talent from #1 corner to #5 anywhere else in the league.  Obviously a couple of those guys carry the “injury prone” tag so hopefully we can find the next Levi Wallace to stash on the PS when one or two goes down.

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5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm with you and I loved the Bills DLine in that period. But Malik Jackson, Ware, Von Miller, Sylvester Williams, Derek Wolfe, Shane Ray... they had waves of talented dlinemen and rushers.

 

He actually had a good rookie year. It is since then it has all gone a bit wrong for him. My nervousness about giving him the job if it is in any way close between he and Levi is that he is a 1 and done player in Buffalo if he performs because we will not pay him to keep him with one eye on paying Tre down the line. If you relegate Levi to a backup spot for a year how does that affect his longer term development?

 

My ideal is that Tre and Levi start, Johnson is the primary boundary backup with EJ Gaines and the secondary boundary backup and then Taron starts in the slot with EJ Gaines as the primary option in that role (he played some nickel to a pretty decent level with the Rams). That to me gives you a very strong top 5 and then you keep a 6th guy who is a slot corner / safety hybrid / special teamer..... that might be the only spot on the roster Siran Neal has a realistic shot at right now if he is making the 53.

I have virtually no concerns about the corner position. Whether it be Wallace, Gaines, or KJ, someone will step up as the number 2 and the rest will provide solid depth. Johnson is terrific in the slot. I guess we could probably use a BACKUP slot corner, but that's getting a bit greedy. Even if something goes wrong, McD could probably snag another Ryan Lewis and get a few solid games out of some PS player.

 

I'm a little more concerned at safety. Hyde and Poyer are both SOLID, but neither bring much to the LOS. My hope is that Neal or J Johnson can earn some time in the big safety/slot/hybrid role in RZ and specialty situations.

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Posted (edited)

I think Johnson has the athletic ability to also play slot.  Having 2 slot corners would be nice. Watching safties getting toasted in 4 wrs sets isnt fun.  Playing 4 CBS on passing downs.

Edited by Mat68
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So imagine that Johnson and Trent Murphy go out and have career years and Oliver turns into an absolute beast along with Edmunds. They feed us this stuff every year and it's never all to come true. Still, 3 out of 4 would be really nice.

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Sounds like Johnson is the star of OTA's so far and if he stays healthy could end up being a huge signing, albeit a one year rental because dude will get paid big time next year if he lives up to billing and regains his old form.

 

Overall this team appears to be locked at loaded at the safety and DB positions and I give Beane and McD credit for preparing to battle in a league that is still driven by scoring and pass happy offensive systems/franchise QB's.

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Johnson was already familiar with Bills defensive backs coach John Butler, who held the same role during Johnson’s first three seasons in Houston. And then there was the surprising warm welcome the 2015 first-round draft pick received from Bills starter Tre’Davious White.



“I was like, ‘Man, I’m happy you’re here because you remind me so much of myself,’” White said, recalling the first conversation he had shortly after Johnson signed a one-year deal with Buffalo in March. “I was like, ‘That’s what I need. I need somebody that’s going to push me in practice.’”

Though the two never played together or knew each other for that matter, White became a big fan after Johnson was selected by Houston with the 16th pick out of Wake Forest. White, then entering his junior season at LSU, was such a student of football he would study each of the top cornerback selections to see how he compared and what he needed to work on to improve his own game.

What stood out about Johnson was his remarkable footwork.

“His footwork is crazy. He has elite quickness, elite change of the direction,” White said. “It’s just unfortunate the injury stuff that he can’t control has shorted him up to this point and time. But when he’s on the field and he’s healthy, he’s a great, great corner. He’s going to be good for us.”

The sentiment is shared by Johnson, who is competing for the starting job opposite White, and attempting to kick-start a career after a series of injuries limited him to playing a combined 19 games in his past three seasons following a promising rookie year.

 

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I’m still rooting for the Levi Wallace story, but I’ll take anything that means our one hole on defense is filled!

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Morse and Johnson may end up being the best FA signings this year.

 

It's nice to not have all the eggs in one basket across from Tre Day. Wallace, Gaines and Johnson all have flashed.

 

And let's not forget Taron Johnson is here too.

 

being 5-6 deep at CB is a blessing. I hope K Johnson fits the system (ask J Norman what that is like) and the CB position is set.

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10 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I’m still rooting for the Levi Wallace story, but I’ll take anything that means our one hole on defense is filled!

 

If you mean #2 CB as being the “one hole,” it was filled by Wallace.  Johnson should only be considered depth. 

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Just now, Doc said:

 

If you mean #2 CB as being the “one hole,” it was filled by Wallace.  Johnson should only be considered depth. 

The story is that Wallace has been at the #2 spot all through the spring but that Johnson is pushing him 

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Just now, Doc said:

 

If you mean #2 CB as being the “one hole,” it was filled by Wallace.  Johnson should only be considered depth. 

 

Thats what I meant. 

 

I thjnk Wallace has a good chance to be the guy, but he does need to show out. He played well for a stretch, but he needs to go through an offseason as the guy and I like that Johnson is right behind him ready to take his job. Good teams don’t have starters in June, July, and August. They have competitions.

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30 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The story is that Wallace has been at the #2 spot all through the spring but that Johnson is pushing him 

 

Yup. 

 

28 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Thats what I meant. 

 

I thjnk Wallace has a good chance to be the guy, but he does need to show out. He played well for a stretch, but he needs to go through an offseason as the guy and I like that Johnson is right behind him ready to take his job. Good teams don’t have starters in June, July, and August. They have competitions.

 

Wallace definitely needs to keep pushing himself. But as I said before, KJ is injury-prone and only here on a 1-year deal. Better to just develop Wallace if the competition is close either way. 

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20 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yup. 

 

 

Wallace definitely needs to keep pushing himself. But as I said before, KJ is injury-prone and only here on a 1-year deal. Better to just develop Wallace if the competition is close either way. 

 

Better to play the best player. Always. At every position. 

 

Injury prone players have gone on to have amazing careers and 1 year deals turn into 5 year deals all the time. I love Wallace, I always have. But if Johnson is a better player, I want him starting.

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