John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And if they hadn't you'd complain that they didn't.  

 

Oh really? We would be mad that we couldn’t “afford” that star contract and John Brown?

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Chemical said:

 

Oh really? We would be mad that we couldn’t “afford” that star contract and John Brown?

If Beane or McD says it's white our friend here says it's black.

8 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Sammy has what would have been the catch to send them to the super bowl if Dee Ford hadn’t been lined up “Offside”

 

Dareus is better than Star and Sammy is better than any receiver we have had since. 

Dareus was a slacker and is not better than Star.  He would be if he wanted to actually use his talent.  And I wish Sammyvwas still here, although injuries have prevented him from doing that well.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Sammy has what would have been the catch to send them to the super bowl if Dee Ford hadn’t been lined up “Offside”

 

Dareus is better than Star and Sammy is better than any receiver we have had since. 

 

Great.  So Sammy's 70-80 catches in the last 2 seasons from the two most high powered offenses....he's earned his contract.

 

So you're saying we should have kept Dareus?  Since signing his huge deal in 2015....he's had 8 sacks.  He had 29 in his first 4 seasons.  I wonder what happened?

[Patrick Duffy]

19 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

you don't need to see the future to know as has been pointed out, their career stats are far from overwhelming.  Will the unit be improved yes.  If Allan also continues to improve this group could look much better.  I'm a believer that more often than people realize the QB makes the WR's look special so if Allan is the real deal, we may be just one true WR away from an elite group.  

Their career stats mean absolutely nothing to the point I was making. Nothing at all. My point again (if you failed to read the original post I quoted) was that the poster stated the Bills WR core are the bottom of the league, stating as if it is a fact as of right now. Last year maybe they were toward the bottom, but nobody can say they are the bottom now when the season hasn't started.

 

The bolded that you posted here, you clearly state they will be improved and in which case I agree they absolutely "should". So there you go, if they are improved, then how can they be bottom,  and again the season hasn't started yet? That's my point. We can all try to predict the future, but stating it as if it has already happened is silly.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Oh really? We would be mad that we couldn’t “afford” that star contract and John Brown?

 

No....we would have been mad at paying a guy as much as Dareus to only be a run stuffer.  

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

No....we would have been mad at paying a guy as much as Dareus to only be a run stuffer.  

 

Haha why aren’t you mad at the star contract then?

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Haha why aren’t you mad at the star contract then?

I'm not.  I wouldn't be mad if Dareus had it either.  They need a space eater in the middle of the D line.  Dareus was a slacker though.  Star does his job as unglamorous as it is.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No, Belichick and Carroll and Kubiak all fit the description just fine. Nothing was said in the original description Scott proposed about whether guys were out of the head coaching ranks for several years. Typical that the already spectacularly restrictive description isn't producing results you like, so you just add in yet another condition and pretend it had been there all along.

 

That they couldn't get a head coaching job after their earlier regimes made massive mistakes by firing them doesn't mean those weren't massive mistakes. 

 

And you also ignore the argument he ignored. For the same reason, that the results don't fit your preferred narrative. So, for you too ...

 

 

 

 

Now try and find guys who fit [Scott's proposed] requirements ... "a GOOD HC coach who was mediocre for 4 straight years ... and succeeded ... in the modern day NFL" ... and was kept around longer and failed? There aren't many because of the quick trigger fingers that modern management has adopted. So we've got four examples of success and not all that many examples of failure. It's a strategy that has worked out a good percentage of the few times it's been tried, even in the modern NFL.

 

And you should probably restrict that even further the way you're trying to do when looking at successes. You only want to look at guys who did not have time off from HCing after being fired for doing poorly? Fine. You have to apply the same requirement to failures too, then. How many coaches fit the original requirements plus your new one ... who then failed. The answer will be zero, won't it? If I've missed someone let me know!!

 

Which would mean that even if we go along with your nonsensical extra condition and throw out Belichick and Carroll, leaving only Garrett as a success in the modern game ... would then leave ... who? ... as a failure. In other words, a good strategy that's gone one for one in the modern game, but still isn't being used by owners unable to marshal the patience for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for defending me, Thurm.  I gave up because its hopeless arguing about it.  

 

Even if it WERE true, which it isn't, that no coach has ever been mediocre or worse for four years and then succeeded, it wouldn't prove anything about McDermott.  The sample size of previous head coaches who fit the criteria is too small to establish any kind of hard and fast rule.   

 

They are literally making up stuff to prove they're correct.  

 

Point is, they're arguing a point that can be known only looking backward.  McD is not a.success until he is one, but the fact that he may not have succeeded yet doesn't mean he won't succeed.  They have an opinion, and you and I can respect that.  I won't waste my time on people who can't or won't acknowledge that they are only opinions and are not certainties.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

17 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Their career stats mean absolutely nothing to the point I was making. Nothing at all. My point again (if you failed to read the original post I quoted) was that the poster stated the Bills WR core are the bottom of the league, stating as if it is a fact as of right now. Last year maybe they were toward the bottom, but nobody can say they are the bottom now when the season hasn't started.

 

The bolded that you posted here, you clearly state they will be improved and in which case I agree they absolutely "should". So there you go, if they are improved, then how can they be bottom,  and again the season hasn't started yet? That's my point. We can all try to predict the future, but stating it as if it has already happened is silly.

 

 

 

So are you saying that if they are not ranked #32,, they can't be bottom.  IMO and like ly the opinion of most people any unit ranked below say 25 is at the bottom of the league.  So it's quite possible they can improve and still be in the bottom and even if they moved from 25 to 20 that's improved, but still not impressive.  But again with adecent year from Allan, they could move up maybe 15 or so.

 

So if no one can predict the future and it's silly to even talk about it according to you, why do NFL GM's coaches, scouts, etc even bother to have a draft every year.  Why not just pick names out of a hat and that's the team you go to?  Would save teams a huge amount of money as apparently no one has any idea what's going to happen anyway.

[K-9]

45 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Sammy has what would have been the catch to send them to the super bowl if Dee Ford hadn’t been lined up “Offside”

 

Dareus is better than Star and Sammy is better than any receiver we have had since. 

No doubt both are better, but other than three really poor games against the run last year, we didn’t miss Dareus much, if at all. 

 

Sammy would have helped, perhaps. But he’s simply not the same receiver he was prior to his foot issues. He is just not as explosive out of his breaks at the moment. And that’s the key to his game. 

 

But they aren’t better for this team and it’s vision going forward. I get that you don’t agree with GMs and coaches who have their own preferences and prerogatives that don’t align with yours, but it’s their show, regardless. 

 

Can you at least understand why they made those personnel choices? 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

12 minutes ago, K-9 said:

No doubt both are better, but other than three really poor games against the run last year, we didn’t miss Dareus much, if at all. 

 

Sammy would have helped, perhaps. But he’s simply not the same receiver he was prior to his foot issues. He is just not as explosive out of his breaks at the moment. And that’s the key to his game. 

 

But they aren’t better for this team and it’s vision going forward. I get that you don’t agree with GMs and coaches who have their own preferences and prerogatives that don’t align with yours, but it’s their show, regardless. 

 

Can you at least understand why they made those personnel choices? 

 

 

As as soon as we traded Dareus we were gashed on the ground for 3 straight weeks. 

 

I guess I can see their logic but of course I don’t agree with it. It’s just too hard to keep up with all the other teams in the league when you trade good young players away for draft picks that might turn into good young players. 

 

With each trade/ lack of QB selection in 2017, I was basically saying “ok, I don’t agree with it but hope it works out” here we are two years later with the 31st ranked offense while Mahomes and Watson are stars.

 

I guess we will see now that their self-Imposed cap restrictions are lifted, but it’s very reasonable for any fan to be impatient at this point. 

 

Btw, Dareus/Sammy/Darby all have been to the championship game at least. 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

19 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

 

As as soon as we traded Dareus we were gashed on the ground for 3 straight weeks. 

 

I guess I can see their logic but of course I don’t agree with it. It’s just too hard to keep up with all the other teams in the league when you trade good young players away for draft picks that might turn into good young players. 

 

With each trade/ lack of QB selection in 2017, I was basically saying “ok, I don’t agree with it but hope it works out” here we are two years later with the 31st ranked offense while Mahomes and Watson are stars.

 

I guess we will see now that their self-Imposed cap restrictions are lifted, but it’s very reasonable for any fan to be impatient at this point. 

 

Btw, Dareus/Sammy/Darby all have been to the championship game at least. 

 

 

 

You're not implying any of them were pivotal to their teams being the championship game are you?

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

So are you saying that if they are not ranked #32,, they can't be bottom.  IMO and like ly the opinion of most people any unit ranked below say 25 is at the bottom of the league.  So it's quite possible they can improve and still be in the bottom and even if they moved from 25 to 20 that's improved, but still not impressive.  But again with adecent year from Allan, they could move up maybe 15 or so.

 

So if no one can predict the future and it's silly to even talk about it according to you, why do NFL GM's coaches, scouts, etc even bother to have a draft every year.  Why not just pick names out of a hat and that's the team you go to?  Would save teams a huge amount of money as apparently no one has any idea what's going to happen anyway.

OMG wow, okay one last time here. I am saying, you can not say that the WR core is the bottom of the league right now and the season hasn't started yet. Pretty simple. And AGAIN, yes predicting is fine, no problem. But when a prediction is stated as a fact based upon a football season that hasn't begun yet is silly.

 

This isn't hard to understand. The point is simple, we DO NOT know if they will be the bottom of the league until the season gets almost over with.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Then you’ve never seen a career cut drastically short.

 

I have. But that is a risk for every player in the NFL who suits up every single Sunday (or Monday or Thursday). It is no more a risk for those two than it is Josh Allen (fate forbid) or Tom Brady. 

[Nihilarian]

17 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The "core" of the "corps" certainly isn't impressive.

 

Beasley and Brown are supposed to turn this unit around and in their 12 NFL seasons they've combined for just 3  where they've surpassed the very modest 700 yards receiving level.

 

You don't need to see the future............just look at their careers............it's not like they've been even remotely consistent or reliable producers.

 

Foster was the key to the Bills WR corps being functional in the second half and the burden........for better or worse..........is likely on him to elevate this group into respectability.

Man, all this negativity...  all these negative waves...

 

I look at this years receiver corps and see a kid who only had three game starts last season, but put the fear of god into defensive secondaries with his deep speed. One guy like that is nothing and with two it helps ensure one should get open... and now the Bills have three WRs with 4.5 or better speed in Zay Jones, John Brown and Robert Foster. With Allen's arm it means defenses will need to cover the entire field. Deep bombs everywhere! 

 

I look at Cole Beasley and see first down after first down whenever needed. The Bills version of Wes Welker, Julian Edleman!

 

Plus, they have Duke Williams and David Sills who are both 6'3'' and 225, 211 lbs respectively, both big tall red zone targets. Williams brings experience to the equation and is a big, powerful WR. Not to mention new TEs in Dawson Knox and Tommy Sweeny to go along with Jason Croom, Tyler Kroft.

 

I look at the Buffalo Bills receiving corps and see a ton of possibilities, opportunities in the passing game for Josh Allen to go to. 

 

Now look at the upgrades to the offensive line to realize that this season Allen should have the time to throw whatever pass is needed. Right now I see no weak links anywhere on the line. Not like in the past where that right side was so susceptible to a pass rush at both RG, RT.  By the same token the Bills run game by the RBs should be greatly improved with both Shady and Gore taking turns killing the defense now that they will have actual holes to run through. 

 

I look at the 2019 Buffalo Bills offense and see a top 10-15 unit or better... along with reversing last seasons record to 10-6. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So you're saying we should have kept Dareus?  Since signing his huge deal in 2015....he's had 8 sacks.  He had 29 in his first 4 seasons.  I wonder what happened?

 

 

Star Lotulelei had by far his worst season in the NFL last year.

 

At this stage of his career.....and still at the beginning of his Bills contract......he couldn't get 8 sacks in 4 seasons if the NCAA re-instated his eligibility.

 

Dareus also had his worst year as a pro but significantly outproduced Lotulelei........and Dareus played at about the same level as 2017 Star Lotulelei......a level that got Star $26M+ guaranteed from the Bills.

 

McBeane's Lotulelei contract is one of the worst in Bills history.

 

[Augie]

15 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Man, all this negativity...  all these negative waves...

 

I look at this years receiver corps and see a kid who only had three game starts last season, but put the fear of god into defensive secondaries with his deep speed. One guy like that is nothing and with two it helps ensure one should get open... and now the Bills have three WRs with 4.5 or better speed in Zay Jones, John Brown and Robert Foster. With Allen's arm it means defenses will need to cover the entire field. Deep bombs everywhere! 

 

I look at Cole Beasley and see first down after first down whenever needed. The Bills version of Wes Welker, Julian Edleman!

 

Plus, they have Duke Williams and David Sills who are both 6'3'' and 225, 211 lbs respectively, both big tall red zone targets. Williams brings experience to the equation and is a big, powerful WR. Not to mention new TEs in Dawson Knox and Tommy Sweeny to go along with Jason Croom, Tyler Kroft.

 

I look at the Buffalo Bills receiving corps and see a ton of possibilities, opportunities in the passing game for Josh Allen to go to. 

 

Now look at the upgrades to the offensive line to realize that this season Allen should have the time to throw whatever pass is needed. Right now I see no weak links anywhere on the line. Not like in the past where that right side was so susceptible to a pass rush at both RG, RT.  By the same token the Bills run game by the RBs should be greatly improved with both Shady and Gore taking turns killing the defense now that they will have actual holes to run through. 

 

I look at the 2019 Buffalo Bills offense and see a top 10-15 unit or better... along with reversing last seasons record to 10-6. 

 

It’s hard to argue the weapons and the OLine are not greatly improved. Some people here will continue to harp on the negative. If we win the Super Bowl, but don't cover the spread, some will complain. That’s just how it is......

 

Do we still have some work to do? I’m sure we do, but I just want to keep seeing progress, and I think we will. 

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

You're not implying any of them were pivotal to their teams being the championship game are you?

nice retort Pops 

:  )

[Nihilarian]

43 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Sammy had 114 yards on 8 targets in the championship game.... It's just a matter of staying healthy with him. 

 

There is no perhaps. He'd be the best WR on this roster by a mile.

 

Just a few short seasons after blasting former Bills general manager Doug Whaley for making him look bad due to poor production relative to his draft position, Watkins is content with being the 97th-most targeted receiver in the NFL (47).

Watkins recently opened up about how his outlook on the game has changed drastically since joining Los Angeles, explaining that he is more team-oriented than he was during his tenure in Buffalo.

“I was a statistics, an ego guy in Buffalo. I was all about numbers and it wasn’t healthy for me, my teammates, or my coaches,” Watkins said, via the Rams official site. “So now I really focus on my teammates being happy and winning. And so far it’s been going well.”

 

“I felt like I was consumed, and I was angry,” Watkins said. “It was affecting my relationships with the coaches and with the players. I wanted to be great so bad, but I was also selfish, too. Because there were some games that we won and I didn’t get the ball, and I was upset.”

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/01/rams-sammy-watkins-cant-stop-talking-selfish-he-was-bills/

 

 

10 games, 9 game starts with KC, 40 rec for 519 yards, 3 TDs all for the mere price an average annual salary of $16,000,000. per.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said:

nice retort Pops 

:  )

I wish Sammy was still here.  But Dareus?  No thanks.

[3rdand12]

I have just plain moved on from both.
looking forward to seeing what this revamped Offense can accomplish. Lots of new. But Daboll and Allen are on year two. starts and ends there perhaps.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Sammy had 114 yards on 8 targets in the championship game.... It's just a matter of staying healthy with him. 

 

There is no perhaps. He'd be the best WR on this roster by a mile.

I said Sammy is better. 

 

But I’ll stick to the perhaps he would have helped. Because it’s a HUGE leap.

 

How can you say there’s no “perhaps” when you do nothing but denigrate the players we had on offense last year? Ok, let’s do that:

 

Perhaps Sammy would have turned Peterman into a good NFL QB. Especially with all those similarly talented alternate targets we had like in KC.

 

Perhaps Sammy would have made our OLine one of the best in the league. 

 

And the biggest perhaps? PERHAPS Sammy would have stayed healthy all year and not be the CURRENT injury liability he is now. 

 

Your arguments, when they aren’t moving goalposts, are utterly nonsensical at times. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by K-9

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 5/31/2019 at 1:16 PM, Bill from NYC said:

Serious question.....are you going to provide us with some pertinent comments or are you here to critique a poster who has been here for decades, and may have forgotten more than you will ever know about football. I suggest that you read his posts, evaluate them, and perhaps learn something, or at the very least, consider a point of view that doesn't necessarily coincide with yours.

If you want to read nothing but rah-rah type posts, you might consider signing onto some of these "grade school" sites about which you speak instead of coming here with the sole intent of insulting our members.

 

Officer Bill, ever the dutiful toady chiming in.

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have. But that is a risk for every player in the NFL who suits up every single Sunday (or Monday or Thursday). It is no more a risk for those two than it is Josh Allen (fate forbid) or Tom Brady. 

Who said it was? Yet you're ready to anoint two very young players very early in their careers, I am not.

[LSHMEAB]

21 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Just as an FYI--it would have been Mahomes.

THANKS ALOT!

On 6/13/2019 at 10:19 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The big concern should be him continuing to be a modern day Josh Reed............

Eerily similar. My only hope with Zay is that something clicks psychologically in 19 because a WR with his physical limitations has got to be a killer. He's been the opposite thus far in his NFL career.

[3rdand12]

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

THANKS ALOT!

Eerily similar. My only hope with Zay is that something clicks psychologically in 19 because a WR with his physical limitations has got to be a killer. He's been the opposite thus far in his NFL career.

he has 4.5 speed.
Hope he can show some confident burt out of his breaks.

so what happened since his college  career ? seemed like a steady Robert Wood type of guy coming up/ i miss crazy Bob for real

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

OMG wow, okay one last time here. I am saying, you can not say that the WR core is the bottom of the league right now and the season hasn't started yet. Pretty simple. And AGAIN, yes predicting is fine, no problem. But when a prediction is stated as a fact based upon a football season that hasn't begun yet is silly.

 

This isn't hard to understand. The point is simple, we DO NOT know if they will be the bottom of the league until the season gets almost over with.

 

One last time to you too since you also don't seem to get it. First off I wasn't even the one who stated they are at the bottom right now.  My response was to you who is arguing because they haven't played the season yet, it's wrong.   Was it really stated as a fact or an opinion.  If you look at prior years stats and they put the new players towards the bottom, and last years players were also near the bottom, it's not a reach to state that they likely are going to be at the bottom again. And if it's stated in a factual manor, hard to argue against it.

 

Since you ignored my comment the last time I'll ask again, if past performance can't be used to judge expected future performance, why do they hold a draft every year.  Based on your logic, they should just pick names out of a hat!  Why does everyone in the world except you use past performance to draw conclusions? Why is the whole world wrong??

[LSHMEAB]

11 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

he has 4.5 speed.
Hope he can show some confident burt out of his breaks.

so what happened since his college  career ? seemed like a steady Robert Wood type of guy coming up/ i miss crazy Bob for real

My personal observation has been that he was having fun in college playing against AAC corners. He appears to be intimidated by the competition in the NFL, which is why I alluded to the psychological aspect. And I think he ran a 4.45, but just as some guys play faster than their 40, some play slower. He falls into the latter category. I've never once seen him get separation on a go route. Not once. He's gonna have to really fight for the football if he wants to truly be effective.

[3rdand12]

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

My personal observation has been that he was having fun in college playing against AAC corners. He appears to be intimidated by the competition in the NFL, which is why I alluded to the psychological aspect. And I think he ran a 4.45, but just as some guys play faster than their 40, some play slower. He falls into the latter category. I've never once seen him get separation on a go route. Not once. He's gonna have to really fight for the football if he wants to truly be effective.

I was hoping you would elaborate your fine opinion.

 I do agree on all counts.
and hoped someone would catch he ran under 4.5 actually. thanks.
like i said he has little to no burst out of cuts ( likely confidence in his game, again)
and his hands and feet were not in sync

 

these things can be corrected

 all hail the new WR Coach 
 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

Haha why aren’t you mad at the star contract then?

 

Because he was paid half of what Dareus made, 5 years later...

 

Star clogs holes, that’s his job.  Dareus at a shade below $100 million is supposed to be a wrecking ball.  Did you think they made the same money or something?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Star Lotulelei had by far his worst season in the NFL last year.

 

At this stage of his career.....and still at the beginning of his Bills contract......he couldn't get 8 sacks in 4 seasons if the NCAA re-instated his eligibility.

 

Dareus also had his worst year as a pro but significantly outproduced Lotulelei........and Dareus played at about the same level as 2017 Star Lotulelei......a level that got Star $26M+ guaranteed from the Bills.

 

McBeane's Lotulelei contract is one of the worst in Bills history.

 

 

I just don’t think Star played as bad as you think he did.  We’ve seen very quickly that McBeane have shown zero problems replacing under performing areas this offseason.

 

Yet we didn’t sign or draft anyone to replace Star and he will start week 1....

Edited June 15, 2019 by Royale with Cheese

[LSHMEAB]

On 6/13/2019 at 10:43 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

If the Bills hover around 6 - 8 wins for the next two seasons ... that simply isn't enough evidence, you need to know more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? It would be plenty of evidence. What Pegs thinks is an entirely different story. McDermott starts his career 9-7, 6-10, 8-8, and 7-9 WITH the franchise QB in place and that wouldn't sway you? You are a very patient man my friend.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

One last time to you too since you also don't seem to get it. First off I wasn't even the one who stated they are at the bottom right now.  My response was to you who is arguing because they haven't played the season yet, it's wrong.   Was it really stated as a fact or an opinion.  If you look at prior years stats and they put the new players towards the bottom, and last years players were also near the bottom, it's not a reach to state that they likely are going to be at the bottom again. And if it's stated in a factual manor, hard to argue against it.

 

Since you ignored my comment the last time I'll ask again, if past performance can't be used to judge expected future performance, why do they hold a draft every year.  Based on your logic, they should just pick names out of a hat!  Why does everyone in the world except you use past performance to draw conclusions? Why is the whole world wrong??

First off, I never said that "you" said it, you quoted me about the subject so I explained. Secondly, the poster that I was originally referring  to once again ,stated it as a fact. 

 

To answer your IMO awkward question, a draft is held for teams to get better and younger players,  depending on needs and how much cap room they have (amazed I am explaining this). The other part about passed performances is players change, they get better and they get worse (thought that was quite obvious also)

 

Don't know how you manage to get picking names out of a hat with my previous post, I'm baffled by that one. Anyways, I don't know where your trying to go with this because my previous post was about the poster who stated the WR core was already bottom of the league when the season hasn't started. I made that perfectly clear, all this other stuff you're talking about, I have no idea how you got that out of my post.

 

Anyways, feel like I'm just repeating myself and talking to air. So I'm going to move and and just let you spin your tires here. Have a good 1.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

 

How bout lets not and stick to the facts of which the post I originally quoted was, you can't say a WR core, especially with some new additions are THE BOTTOM of the league in a season which hasn't started yet.

 

All that jibberish you posted (in regards to quoting me) is just that, jibberish. In no way, shape, or form was I comparing them to those players you listed, so you just posted a bunch of nonsense in that fact. I'm simply stating they can't be the worst in the league in a season that has not started. In all likely hood they will be better than last year, by how much, we don't know.

 

The nonsense was you attacking another poster for daring to rate the Bills current WR corps as being of significantly lesser stature than most other teams' WR groups before the season starts.  NOBODY knows how anything in the upcoming season is going to turn out but EVERYBODY makes predictions, you included, and it's all based on taking what teams/coaches/players have done in the past and guessing what they'll do in the future.  I'm sure that if the poster had claimed that the Bills had a top ten WR corps now that they added Beasley and Brown, you wouldn't complain that "they can't be [one of the best] in the league in a season that has not started."  

 

The Bills WRs were so poor last year that they could improve significantly and still be in the bottom third of the league.  Beasley and Brown could both have career years and the WR corps as a whole could still be a bottom feeder unit if Jones and Foster don't play well.

 

 

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The fault about their OL was due to the fact that the 2016 Bills didn't have a great OL except for Incognito and Wood.

 

I forget, didn't something happen to those two. They also had Glenn but needed to trade him for cap relief and to get in a much better place to allow them to draft Josh Allen. Pretty much the same for the WRs. One quite good player in Woods who they couldn't sign for cap reasons and one up and down one in Watkins who they again traded for cap relief and draft capital to bring in Allen.

 

For about the 18th time - no matter how little you want to hear it - they had terrible cap problems that Beane promised the Pegulas in his job interview that he would solve before the 2019 season. Which then forced him to spend very very little money on the 2018 offense to fill the gaps. This year shows what they do when they have cap space.

 

And no, the cap issue was anything but overblown. They took massive action. And got massive results, which is why they so very quickly went from a terrible situation to an excellent one.

 

If the Bills had chosen to keep Cordy Glenn, they would have had two decent OTs.  They could have played Glenn at LT and put Dawkins at RT, but McDermott and Beane either never expected that without Incognito next to him, Dawkins' play would plummet or they didn't care.  They could have also invested more than 1 late fifth round pick and some UDFA and waiver wire refugees in the OL in the 2018 draft.

 

They might have also tried to work with Incognito ... like not demanding he take a pay cut. It seems to me that they might have wanted to push incognito out the door once Wood was gone.  Maybe they only kept him because he was Woods' buddy.   "Encouraging" Incognito to retire might have very well been the right call but not doing so could have been a possibility. 

 

FTR, the Bills did not have a "terrible cap problem" in 2017 until they traded Dareus, lost Wood to injury/retirement, and then traded Glenn and had to eat the remainder of the guaranteed portions of those contracts.    They might have incurred dead cap money because of trading Taylor, too.  I think it would have been pretty hard for Beane to promise to "fix" a problem that didn't exist when he was interviewing for the GM position.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said:

Who said it was? Yet you're ready to anoint two very young players very early in their careers, I am not.

 

So the only reason you are still suspicious is in case they get injured? Got it. 

[LSHMEAB]

On 6/14/2019 at 3:40 AM, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Watson has got some really suspect pocket awareness.

Not sure if that was said in jest, but I agree either way. I think he's a good quarterback. I'm just not 100 sold. The injury issues are a concern and I don't think he sees the field all that well. I've seen him improvise quite a bit, but he OFTEN tucks and runs as opposed to Mahomes who is always looking downfield.

 

I'm personally OK McDermott passed on Watson. Mahomes; not so much. Time will tell if Allen makes this a moot point.

[BADOLBILZ]

59 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I just don’t think Star played as bad as you think he did.  We’ve seen very quickly that McBeane have shown zero problems replacing under performing areas this offseason.

 

Yet we didn’t sign or draft anyone to replace Star and he will start week 1....

 

There are still $18.5M guaranteed reasons.....above McPridefulness.......that Star's roster spot is safe.

 

But why would they need to sign or draft a replacement this offseason?

 

They already have 2018 3rd round pick Harrison Phillips at the position........he who made twice as many tackles as Star and SIX plays behind the line of scrimmage vs. just ONE by Lotulelei (seriously, Star had just ONE TFL and ZERO QB hits).

 

And Harrison Phillips was no world beater..........Star was just world beaten.

 

At 340# Jordan Phillips is another possibility to get some snaps there.

 

The Bills gotta' play Bell and Barkley the first two weeks of the season and if Star doesn't make a significant impact in those games he might even start seeing some healthy scratches.

[Cripple Creek]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So the only reason you are still suspicious is in case they get injured? Got it. 

No, it is one reason.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

There are still $18.5M guaranteed reasons.....above McPridefulness.......that Star's roster spot is safe.

 

But why would they need to sign or draft a replacement this offseason?

 

They already have 2018 3rd round pick Harrison Phillips at the position........he who made twice as many tackles as Star and SIX plays behind the line of scrimmage vs. just ONE by Lotulelei (seriously, Star had just ONE TFL and ZERO QB hits).

 

And Harrison Phillips was no world beater..........Star was just world beaten.

 

At 340# Jordan Phillips is another possibility to get some snaps there.

 

The Bills gotta' play Bell and Barkley the first two weeks of the season and if Star doesn't make a significant impact in those games he might even start seeing some healthy scratches.

 

I just don’t believe any of this.

[BADOLBILZ]

26 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I just don’t believe any of this.

 

 

You make such compelling arguments.