YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Great hire for them ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I knew it wouldn't take long for him to land on his feet. He is a good talent evaluator and got the Raiders out of cap hell. He was a casualty of "Dumb and Dumber" in Oakland. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterbluesky Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I saw that this afternoon...times will be tough down in South Beach for a few years,he's going to clean the house..and he has nothing to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said: I saw that this afternoon...times will be tough down in South Beach for a few years,he's going to clean the house..and he has nothing to spend. Yep He brought Oakland front laughing stock to 12-4. Now they are back to laughing stock - but not his fault. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 But at least the Raiders have Gruden..... Good luck with that! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Augie said: But at least the Raiders have Gruden..... Good luck with that! Come on, man. They gave him like 25 years. Give him time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, LeGOATski said: Come on, man. They gave him like 25 years. Give him time. So....more than a quarter of the world’s population will expire before Mr Ego has to produce. I bet he thinks that’s about right, but he’d prefer 1/3 if he was honest about it. McKenzie is lucky to get out. The $10 million dollar man was going to win every contest, and take them all down. Move to a tax free state and start from scratch building something. Be better than Gruden, but PLEASE still dwell south of the Bills in geography as well as standings (and preferably NORTH of the Cheaters). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKellyTryouts Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Yep He brought Oakland front laughing stock to 12-4. Now they are back to laughing stock - but not his fault. I can't entirely agree with this method of thinking. The Raiders had an easier schedule the year they had all those wins; it'd be one thing if they had sustained success like that for a couple of years, but it felt fluky more than anything in retrospect. Lots of McKenzie's draft picks have been whiffs, too. Yes, he struck gold in the WR-heavy-but-let's-give-up-a-first-for-Watkins draft when Mack fell into his lap and how he managed to get Derek Carr with the next pick, but otherwise lots of players taken in the top rounds over the years haven't amounted to much of anything (DJ Hayden, Menelik Watson, Mario Edwards, Karl Joseph, Jihad Ward, Obi, etc.) Plus, his two HC hires in Dennis Allen and Jack Del Rio were underwhelming. Some of Gruden's draft picks this year (Kolton Miller, Arden Key, Mo Hurst, Marcell Ateman) were strong contributors this first year, but all that is overshadowed when he decided that this roster wasn't good enough to contend with Mack and that rebuilding with draft picks was the way he wanted to go. The jury is still out on whether or not he and Mayock can right the ship, but the media is too busy hating on him anyways to focus on this being a process. If anything, McKenzie should have been dismissed with Del Rio if Mark Davis was determined to give Gruden full control from the get go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Augie said: But at least the Raiders have Gruden..... Good luck with that! ...honorable mention to McCarron & Peterman.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 12 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Yep He brought Oakland front laughing stock to 12-4. Now they are back to laughing stock - but not his fault. They went right back to laughing stock the following year (6-10) with all the same players. One winning season, 7 years as GM. This confirms Miami is in full tank mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: They went right back to laughing stock the following year (6-10) with all the same players. One winning season, 7 years as GM. This confirms Miami is in full tank mode. It shouldn’t be lost to the history books that In 2017...Carr was returning from his broken leg and then during the 2017 Season suffered a Back Fracture in Week 4, to which upon initial diagnosis was 2-6 weeks. He missed 1 and played through it the rest of the season. (Hind sight...not a great idea. BUT he had just signed the MEGA DEAL, and it smells like there was pressure to play even if he was physically compromised) Then there was Amari Cooper who had a foot issue and to this day the extent of his further injuries has never been revealed. But from quotes from other Raiders player...it was extenSive and play making debilitating. Which I think evidence now that Cooper is finally healthy he is lighting it up in Dallas. **Having several Hardcore Raider Fan friends...I’ve heard all about the lost season of 2017, several times at the bar** 11 hours ago, JimKellyTryouts said: I can't entirely agree with this method of thinking. The Raiders had an easier schedule the year they had all those wins; it'd be one thing if they had sustained success like that for a couple of years, but it felt fluky more than anything in retrospect. Lots of McKenzie's draft picks have been whiffs, too. Yes, he struck gold in the WR-heavy-but-let's-give-up-a-first-for-Watkins draft when Mack fell into his lap and how he managed to get Derek Carr with the next pick, but otherwise lots of players taken in the top rounds over the years haven't amounted to much of anything (DJ Hayden, Menelik Watson, Mario Edwards, Karl Joseph, Jihad Ward, Obi, etc.) Plus, his two HC hires in Dennis Allen and Jack Del Rio were underwhelming. Some of Gruden's draft picks this year (Kolton Miller, Arden Key, Mo Hurst, Marcell Ateman) were strong contributors this first year, but all that is overshadowed when he decided that this roster wasn't good enough to contend with Mack and that rebuilding with draft picks was the way he wanted to go. The jury is still out on whether or not he and Mayock can right the ship, but the media is too busy hating on him anyways to focus on this being a process. If anything, McKenzie should have been dismissed with Del Rio if Mark Davis was determined to give Gruden full control from the get go. Edited February 17, 2019 by RalphWilson'sNewWar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: It shouldn’t be lost to the history books that In 2017...Carr was returning from his broken leg and then during the 2017 Season suffered a Back Fracture in Week 4, to which upon initial diagnosis was 2-6 weeks. He missed 1 and played through it the rest of the season. (Hind sight...not a great idea. BUT he had just signed the MEGA DEAL, and it smells like there was pressure to play even if he was physically compromised) Then there was Amari Cooper who had a foot issue and to this day the extent of his further injuries has never been revealed. But from quotes from other Raiders player...it was extenSive and play making debilitating. Which I think evidence now that Cooper is finally healthy he is lighting it up in Dallas. Carr had one above average season. He's still not a franchise caliber QB. The excuses don't obscure this reality. Players get injured. Players play injured...on every team. If the Raiders had been consistently solid and performing well throughout the McKenzie era, you might have an argument that McKenzie was a good GM. But what is not lost in the history books is that he produced a single winning season out of 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Carr had one above average season. He's still not a franchise caliber QB. The excuses don't obscure this reality. Players get injured. Players play injured...on every team. If the Raiders had been consistently solid and performing well throughout the McKenzie era, you might have an argument that McKenzie was a good GM. But what is not lost in the history books is that he produced a single winning season out of 7. The reality is that Hue Jackson drove the Raiders into hell with his trades and salary cap mismanagement. McKenzie took over a team with no defense, no first round pick, Salary Cap Jail. It took McKensize a few seasons to crawl out (all Bills fans should appreciate that.) After being able to draft he complied a team that were super Bowl favorites before Carr broke his leg...then 2017 with more injuries. (I hope your not trying to minimize a QB playing with a FRACTURED SPINE) thats when Mark Davis fires everyone and undercuts McKenzie by hiring Gruden. McKenzie was a victim of meddling owners and slew of injuries/bad luck. Edited February 17, 2019 by RalphWilson'sNewWar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Carr had one above average season. He's still not a franchise caliber QB. The excuses don't obscure this reality. Players get injured. Players play injured...on every team. If the Raiders had been consistently solid and performing well throughout the McKenzie era, you might have an argument that McKenzie was a good GM. But what is not lost in the history books is that he produced a single winning season out of 7. Carr was a good pick. However, the injuries derailed his performance. The issue isn’t that Mckenzie whiffed, but rather he failed to have a backup plan at QB. Then he failed to address it in the ensuing draft. The difficulty in analysis comes from separating McKensie’s moves from Davis’ meddling. Mckenzie is likely at least a middle of the road GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) They didn’t hire him as GM, he’s a senior personnel executive. So he’s just helping them evaluate talent which he seems very good at. I assume next year he will jump into the GM hiring cycle again. Edited February 17, 2019 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Always thought he was a great football mind. Too bad hes he’s going to a divisional rival. I should say good luck but I don’t want to see the fish be good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 17 hours ago, H2o said: I knew it wouldn't take long for him to land on his feet. He is a good talent evaluator and got the Raiders out of cap hell. He was a casualty of "Dumb and Dumber" in Oakland. That was funny. Chuckle will run the Raiders into the ground and Dumber with Mark Davis who is not independently wealthy beyond the Raiders to give a $100 mil contract. He’s great for marketing while moving to Vegas, but I watched Chuckie first hand screw up the Bucs after the SB. Tat team was built by McKay, and Dungy. He may have not won the SB, but they were good year after year. McKenzie is not good for us as he will build a strong team in the next couple of years. At least we have a leg up with our admin, coaching, and hopefully franchise QB. At least three years from now people won’t be talking about weak the AFCE is compared to other divisions. By then, I’d lay money Brady and Belicheck will be gone, the Jets should improve, and Miami will be competitive. God I can’t wait til the Patsies go into non-playoff hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said: Carr was a good pick. However, the injuries derailed his performance. The issue isn’t that Mckenzie whiffed, but rather he failed to have a backup plan at QB. Then he failed to address it in the ensuing draft. The difficulty in analysis comes from separating McKensie’s moves from Davis’ meddling. Mckenzie is likely at least a middle of the road GM. Yes because all franchises have a backup plan at QB its not like it took us 18 years to find a legit prospect or anything like that. Most franchises have 2 to 3 franchise QBs on their rosters.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 2 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: Yes because all franchises have a backup plan at QB its not like it took us 18 years to find a legit prospect or anything like that. Most franchises have 2 to 3 franchise QBs on their rosters.? You’re absolutely correct. Fans and owners fully understand that there’s a quarterback shortage. In fact they’re so understanding that their sympathy for GMs and coaches provides them with the faith and patience to endure decades of losing without becoming upset or frustrated with performance. I’m quite sure that I’ll never have the intellect or wisdom to comprehend the depth of faith and trust displayed by owners and their teams fans; especially Raider Nation. I swear those cats must have studied under the Dahli Lama for they are extraordinary examples of steadfast sensibility and are known worldwide for their reasonable natures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Buffalo Junction said: You’re absolutely correct. Fans and owners fully understand that there’s a quarterback shortage. In fact they’re so understanding that their sympathy for GMs and coaches provides them with the faith and patience to endure decades of losing without becoming upset or frustrated with performance. I’m quite sure that I’ll never have the intellect or wisdom to comprehend the depth of faith and trust displayed by owners and their teams fans; especially Raider Nation. I swear those cats must have studied under the Dahli Lama for they are extraordinary examples of steadfast sensibility and are known worldwide for their reasonable natures. Glad you agree your comments were pretty ignorant. Edited February 18, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 3 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: Glad you agree your comments were pretty ignorant. I’m sure you’re about as happy as a dead pig in the sunshine... Fact remains, McKenzie had an UDFA backing up Carr in 16’ then a 4th round rookie and EJ Manual in 17’. I couldn’t tell you if that’s on McKenzie or Mr Bowl Cut. What I can surmise for other league wide occurrences is that the team falling apart after Carr’s injuries didn’t help McKenzies employment situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said: I’m sure you’re about as happy as a dead pig in the sunshine... Fact remains, McKenzie had an UDFA backing up Carr in 16’ then a 4th round rookie and EJ Manual in 17’. I couldn’t tell you if that’s on McKenzie or Mr Bowl Cut. What I can surmise for other league wide occurrences is that the team falling apart after Carr’s injuries didn’t help McKenzies employment situation. As would be the case with most teams if they lost their starting QB and some teams wouldnt be much better with their starter. The McKenzie firing was all Gruden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 On 2/17/2019 at 3:45 AM, JimKellyTryouts said: Some of Gruden's draft picks this year (Kolton Miller, Arden Key, Mo Hurst, Marcell Ateman) were strong contributors this first year, but all that is overshadowed when he decided that this roster wasn't good enough to contend with Mack and that rebuilding with draft picks was the way he wanted to go. The jury is still out on whether or not he and Mayock can right the ship, but the media is too busy hating on him anyways to focus on this being a process. If anything, McKenzie should have been dismissed with Del Rio if Mark Davis was determined to give Gruden full control from the get go. Kolton Miller definitely contributed..... he contributed badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 And I thought being a Bills fan was painful ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 23 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: The reality is that Hue Jackson drove the Raiders into hell with his trades and salary cap mismanagement. McKenzie took over a team with no defense, no first round pick, Salary Cap Jail. It took McKensize a few seasons to crawl out (all Bills fans should appreciate that.) After being able to draft he complied a team that were super Bowl favorites before Carr broke his leg...then 2017 with more injuries. (I hope your not trying to minimize a QB playing with a FRACTURED SPINE) thats when Mark Davis fires everyone and undercuts McKenzie by hiring Gruden. McKenzie was a victim of meddling owners and slew of injuries/bad luck. Carr didn't have a "FRACTURED SPINE"--he chipped a few spinous processes. Painful no doubt, but he was cleared to play after a week...... 23 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said: Carr was a good pick. However, the injuries derailed his performance. The issue isn’t that Mckenzie whiffed, but rather he failed to have a backup plan at QB. Then he failed to address it in the ensuing draft. The difficulty in analysis comes from separating McKensie’s moves from Davis’ meddling. Mckenzie is likely at least a middle of the road GM. McKenzie gave away Carson Palmer for a 6th and a swap of 7th round picks. He would have 60 starts, 38 wins, 105 TDs, nearly 17,000 yards in AZ. Four years later, Bruce Arians described it as "the trade of the century". McKenzie is another tired NFL retread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 6 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: As would be the case with most teams if they lost their starting QB and some teams wouldnt be much better with their starter. The McKenzie firing was all Gruden. Which is why “owner” or “Davis” are in most of my comments. The dysfunction trickles down from the top. Gruden is just the final straw. You don’t bring in a personality like Gruden and hand him that contract and implied power unless you’re unhappy with your GM, absolutely clueless, or insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 On 2/17/2019 at 10:29 AM, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: The reality is that Hue Jackson drove the Raiders into hell with his trades and salary cap mismanagement. McKenzie took over a team with no defense, no first round pick, Salary Cap Jail. It took McKensize a few seasons to crawl out (all Bills fans should appreciate that.) After being able to draft he complied a team that were super Bowl favorites before Carr broke his leg...then 2017 with more injuries. (I hope your not trying to minimize a QB playing with a FRACTURED SPINE) thats when Mark Davis fires everyone and undercuts McKenzie by hiring Gruden. McKenzie was a victim of meddling owners and slew of injuries/bad luck. ..and the odd thing was the rumor floating around for months that Bruce Allen would flee the Deadskins for a reunion with Gruden ala their TB days............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKellyTryouts Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Kolton Miller definitely contributed..... he contributed badly. I'm as glad as anyone they passed on Edmunds, and it was dumb that he threw shade at the FO for drafting Karl Joseph which somehow prevented them from picking Derwin James. Miller was playing through lots of injuries - not an excuse, but things should only be able to go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said: Which is why “owner” or “Davis” are in most of my comments. The dysfunction trickles down from the top. Gruden is just the final straw. You don’t bring in a personality like Gruden and hand him that contract and implied power unless you’re unhappy with your GM, absolutely clueless, or insane. The last two would be accurate. 3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ..and the odd thing was the rumor floating around for months that Bruce Allen would flee the Deadskins for a reunion with Gruden ala their TB days............ They couldnt pass up the opportunity to get Mayock. The greatest pretend GM in the history of sports. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 39 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: The last two would be accurate. They couldnt pass up the opportunity to get Mayock. The greatest pretend GM in the history of sports. ...better pull a rabbit outta his top hat......I'd bet Chuckie didn't like the idea of reporting TO Allen this time around..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) Traitor!!! LOL!!! (j/k) Well, the Bills will officially be a bigger FA draw than the Raiders and the fish have no money. That's something to build on, eh? Edited February 21, 2019 by GreggTX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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