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dave mcbride

why a vet at the backup QB position is so important

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After reading this, it boggles the mind that the Bills went into the season with no veteran experience at QB. Even though Hoyer doesn't play in the actual games, he does so much for the Patriots that can't be quantified. https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/11/super-bowl-devin-jason-mccourty-brian-hoyer-patriots-rams

 

Thank god Beane learned his lesson and signed up two guys with experience immediately after the season. 

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Yeah, what happened last year to start the season was really bad.  To his credit, Beane has owned it and said publicly he should have gotten Anderson sooner.  They really thought McCarron was going to be that "veteran" piece but when he couldn't even beat out Peterman their plans went out the window.

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Yeah, I have very little confidence in their offensive moves.  They have a ton to prove.  

 

It blows my mind why every team doesn’t go into a season with 1) their starter 2) their veteran backup 3) their development guy.  Why would would ever settle at the qb position blows my mind.

 

obviously, I wasn’t a fan of the Allen pick.  But I hoped they would be smarter than previous Bills teams in their development of him.  They weren’t.  This is a make or break year for them.

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1 hour ago, eball said:

Yeah, what happened last year to start the season was really bad.  To his credit, Beane has owned it and said publicly he should have gotten Anderson sooner.  They really thought McCarron was going to be that "veteran" piece but when he couldn't even beat out Peterman their plans went out the window.

It didn't really occur to me how much a vet qb who is on the bench helps out the defense on a week-to-week basis.

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That's why McCarron was signed, but Peterman outplayed him. Then they brought in Anderson.

 

We've got a good group now, though. That's what's important.

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5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It didn't really occur to me how much a vet qb who is on the bench helps out the defense on a week-to-week basis.

 

Yep, very insightful.

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McCarron could have been retained regardless of being beat out. What’s important is they learn not make these kinds of stupid mistakes. They don’t get credit for figuring it out mid season. 

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1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

After reading this, it boggles the mind that the Bills went into the season with no veteran experience at QB. Even though Hoyer doesn't play in the actual games, he does so much for the Patriots that can't be quantified. https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/11/super-bowl-devin-jason-mccourty-brian-hoyer-patriots-rams

 

Thank god Beane learned his lesson and signed up two guys with experience immediately after the season. 

 

I'm glad they learned as well Dave, but for guys who've worked in the NFL pushing 40 years combined I don't think it's a stretch to expect them to show some foresight here.

 

Entering the season with Peterman and Josh Allen was inexcusable.  Sure, it's water under the bridge now, but in a game that's long established you need options at QB unless you've got a franchise type, I expected more. 

 

I agree they got the QB thing down, but a month from today I expect much more in terms of building that offense. 

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1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

obviously, I wasn’t a fan of the Allen pick.  But I hoped they would be smarter than previous Bills teams in their development of him.  They weren’t.  This is a make or break year for them.

 

I think they had a plan that didn't (initially) work out.  Thankfully they adjusted, and it's clear how Josh benefited from having Anderson (and Barkley) around -- particularly after he returned from injury.  All things considered it's hard to criticize the fact they got Allen a lot of playing time and at the end of the year he looked the part of a top 10 draft choice.

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5 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

McCarron could have been retained regardless of being beat out. What’s important is they learn not make these kinds of stupid mistakes. They don’t get credit for figuring it out mid season. 

 

Dumping him that quickly was strange.

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22 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Dumping him that quickly was strange.

 

It was a free draft choice in the eyes of Beane. 

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32 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

McCarron could have been retained regardless of being beat out. What’s important is they learn not make these kinds of stupid mistakes. They don’t get credit for figuring it out mid season. 

I agree. For some reason McCarron needed to be dumped by the Bills and yet he’s still on an NFL roster to this day.

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24 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I think they had a plan that didn't (initially) work out.  Thankfully they adjusted, and it's clear how Josh benefited from having Anderson (and Barkley) around -- particularly after he returned from injury.  All things considered it's hard to criticize the fact they got Allen a lot of playing time and at the end of the year he looked the part of a top 10 draft choice.

With all due respect (and I hope you know I do respect you as a poster although I have become a little more skeptical of things), how is it hard to criticize?  Literally, Peterman was the worst qb in nfl history to play multiple games.  Starting him in 2017 could have been the reason the missed the playoffs.  Yet, not only do hey keep him, they bring him Back as a starter and the only other qb on the roster.  He sucks so bad, they are forced to play Allen.  Then, Allen gets hurt and they are finally forced to address the qb position.

 

and the biggest excuse I hear for Allen is how bad the talent was around hkm.  This regime is the reason for the lack of talent around him!  Trading up and drafting Zay instead of taking JuJu or Kupp.  Trading multiple picks for fat Kelvin after being with him in Carolina when he was fat Kelvin!  Drafting Austin Prohel because they are friends with his dad.  Paying a backup 30 year old rb $3 million.  So yeah, there’s plenty to criticize them for.

 

also, they better not be content with the qb position because we have two backups with a worst qb ratings than EJ Manuel.  Never stop looking for qbs!!!

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22 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

With all due respect (and I hope you know I do respect you as a poster although I have become a little more skeptical of things), how is it hard to criticize?  Literally, Peterman was the worst qb in nfl history to play multiple games.  Starting him in 2017 could have been the reason the missed the playoffs.  Yet, not only do hey keep him, they bring him Back as a starter and the only other qb on the roster.  He sucks so bad, they are forced to play Allen.  Then, Allen gets hurt and they are finally forced to address the qb position.

 

and the biggest excuse I hear for Allen is how bad the talent was around hkm.  This regime is the reason for the lack of talent around him!  Trading up and drafting Zay instead of taking JuJu or Kupp.  Trading multiple picks for fat Kelvin after being with him in Carolina when he was fat Kelvin!  Drafting Austin Prohel because they are friends with his dad.  Paying a backup 30 year old rb $3 million.  So yeah, there’s plenty to criticize them for.

 

also, they better not be content with the qb position because we have two backups with a worst qb ratings than EJ Manuel.  Never stop looking for qbs!!!

 

Eh, none of these decisions are made in vacuum. 

Coaches have schemes and playbooks, which they work on all offseason WITH their quarterbacks. They no doubt had a good feeling about Peterman at the end of last year (Colts game), throughout the offseason, during camp, and definitely through preseason (which we all did). You see the interceptions, but McD saw his grasp of the terminology and offensive concepts, which is more beneficial to a young team breaking a huddle than just having "a vet". In game action, it fell apart, but you don't know how that is going to play out until the bullets start to fly. 10 out of 10 times I would have the Bills do it the exact same way, and he was picked up by a rebuilding, young team pretty quickly. With a sport as complex as the NFL, there are rarely clear cut cases of "he sux, wurst ever lol".

As for wideouts, JuJu looks great with AB split out as a primary target, but who's to say he would look that good in Buffalo? Again, Benjamin is more of the same--a guy brought in that understands the language of the offense and can be where he needs to be when huddle breaks. Notice the drama surrounding him was Zays mom basically saying her son had to tell him where to line up? His conditioning and drops weren't the deal breaker (in all likelihood), it seemed to be more of a case of him grasping the evolving offense. Again, he was picked up quickly too.

I like everything I've seen from this administration so far, aside from their infatuation with McCoy. I hope he's gone soon, he's the only piece that seems misaligned from their stated intentions--but that might be because of salary reasons, of which I would have no idea. He's washed though, no two ways about it. Better production can be had for cheaper.

I want to edit this to say that I am ALSO infatuated with McCoy, and have seen him around the internet on various conspiracy theory websites. He's a cool dude, so he might be to the offense what Kyle is to the defense. If that's the case, I hope he retires as a Bill. He just never struck me as that type of player, but he's older and I have been wrong about many, many things in life--I hope this is one of them!

Edited by JohnnyGold

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9 minutes ago, JohnnyGold said:

I want to edit this to say that I am ALSO infatuated with McCoy, and have seen him around the internet on various conspiracy theory websites.

What conspiracies is Shady into?

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1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

McCarron could have been retained regardless of being beat out. What’s important is they learn not make these kinds of stupid mistakes. They don’t get credit for figuring it out mid season. 

 

...EXACTLY....he did rebound somewhat post injury in the last pre-season game....and Peterman "beat him out" in TC and pre-season with rubber bullets?...........not even realistic to expect a 5th rounder to make the meteoric rise to an NFL starter that quickly.....certainly were tell tale signs in the SD game as to how much work he needed with "live ammo"....

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39 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

With all due respect (and I hope you know I do respect you as a poster although I have become a little more skeptical of things), how is it hard to criticize?  Literally, Peterman was the worst qb in nfl history to play multiple games.  Starting him in 2017 could have been the reason the missed the playoffs.  Yet, not only do hey keep him, they bring him Back as a starter and the only other qb on the roster.  He sucks so bad, they are forced to play Allen.  Then, Allen gets hurt and they are finally forced to address the qb position.

 

and the biggest excuse I hear for Allen is how bad the talent was around hkm.  This regime is the reason for the lack of talent around him!  Trading up and drafting Zay instead of taking JuJu or Kupp.  Trading multiple picks for fat Kelvin after being with him in Carolina when he was fat Kelvin!  Drafting Austin Prohel because they are friends with his dad.  Paying a backup 30 year old rb $3 million.  So yeah, there’s plenty to criticize them for.

 

also, they better not be content with the qb position because we have two backups with a worst qb ratings than EJ Manuel.  Never stop looking for qbs!!!

Your comments on all of this are spot on IMO.

 

And you are right to suggest that 2019 is make or break time.  In fact, I anticipate Pegula moving on from this regime at the end of this season.  I'll be surprised if that doesn't happen.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

What conspiracies is Shady into?

Oh god, it's been a few years. I saw him post on a few sites a handful of times about life in the NFL. He was coy about it, but everyone figured out pretty quick it was him. It was mundane stuff, and as far as conspiracies, he said that he was into like, ancient aliens/atlantis tier stuff (as opposed to political stuff) but didn't "go public" with it to protect his earnings. IDK, it could have all been a lie and it very may well have just been some bozo pretending to be him, but what a boring ruse that would be. It is the internet though, so who really knows? Either way, it was endearing, and I always figured it was really him, and it changed the way I post about players (and people in general) online, because now I just assume they read it.

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28 minutes ago, JohnnyGold said:

Eh, none of these decisions are made in vacuum. 

Coaches have schemes and playbooks, which they work on all offseason WITH their quarterbacks. They no doubt had a good feeling about Peterman at the end of last year (Colts game), throughout the offseason, during camp, and definitely through preseason (which we all did). You see the interceptions, but McD saw his grasp of the terminology and offensive concepts, which is more beneficial to a young team breaking a huddle than just having "a vet". In game action, it fell apart, but you don't know how that is going to play out until the bullets start to fly. 10 out of 10 times I would have the Bills do it the exact same way, and he was picked up by a rebuilding, young team pretty quickly. With a sport as complex as the NFL, there are rarely clear cut cases of "he sux, wurst ever lol".

 

I agree with this.

 

In retrospect, Brandon Beane's decision to trade AJ McCarron was clearly a mistake.  He has readily admitted as much.

If people want to criticize him, that's fine.  But don't forget that MANY were calling for McCarron to get cut outright, and calling Beane a genius after the 4th preseason game for getting a draft pick in return.  Personally, I would rather judge Beane by his entire body of work after some time on the job, rather than nitpick every little move he makes.

 

On a side note, I really find the Nathan Peterman situation puzzling.  What is it about the guy that inspired such confidence in both the coaching staff AND the front office.  Heck, after the preseason - lots of fans were optimistic that he would start the whole season and bring us back to the playoffs.  Think about all the decisions made by the Bills over the last 2 seasons, because of their unwavering confidence in Peterman.  There is absolutely no way these things happen if Peterman looks anything in practice like he does in games.

 

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1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

McCarron could have been retained regardless of being beat out. What’s important is they learn not make these kinds of stupid mistakes. They don’t get credit for figuring it out mid season. 

Not the way he played & acted.  He didn't want to be the Bills backup, he only wanted to start here.  Sort of like when Favre didn't want to do anything to help Rodgers, only at least Favre was playing.  

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I think everybody but McBeane knew veteran backup quarterbacks that have had a modicum of success and longevity are nice to have for your high overall draft pick quarterback.

 

They've lived and learnt.

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28 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Not the way he played & acted.  He didn't want to be the Bills backup, he only wanted to start here.  Sort of like when Favre didn't want to do anything to help Rodgers, only at least Favre was playing.  

If you say so. How did that work out for him? Didn’t he just end up a backup anyway ?

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7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

If you say so. How did that work out for him? Didn’t he just end up a backup anyway ?

 

...agree....find it hard to believe McBeane guaranteed him to be THE bonafide starter from Day One.....that's a Hugh move..........

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39 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

 

On a side note, I really find the Nathan Peterman situation puzzling.  What is it about the guy that inspired such confidence in both the coaching staff AND the front office.  Heck, after the preseason - lots of fans were optimistic that he would start the whole season and bring us back to the playoffs.  Think about all the decisions made by the Bills over the last 2 seasons, because of their unwavering confidence in Peterman.  There is absolutely no way these things happen if Peterman looks anything in practice like he does in games.

 

 

Well, the best analogy I can give is to consider a chef.

Say you are opening a fine dining restaurant and you hire a guy who went to a great culinary school. You interview him, and he has a great grasp of flavor profiles, building a menu, what's trendy in the culinary world, what's dated, what works well, what doesn't--and you can talk food with this guy for hours. He's green, but you like what you got. 

Now let's say the restaurant hasn't opened yet, so you work with him to build the menu. And wow! This guy GETS IT. You spend late nights going over the menu that you're creating together, talking concepts that other chefs (like McCaron) just don't get. He really blows you away with the way he instantly grasps that when you say "seasonal", you mean apples in the fall and fiddleheads in the spring. The more time that passes, the more you like him.

And what's best? He's there ALL the time. You show up at 6 because the range needs to be repaired, he's there working on the menu. You leave late because you were getting the blinds measured and he's there practicing his souffle.

Now you bring in the line chefs, and you watch him command the line. Are there bumps? Sure. He takes awhile to get his footing under him, but soon enough, everyone from the pastry chef to the sous chef is clicking with him. It looks good.

One last test before you open your doors--a soft debut for friends and family. And he KILLS IT.  Timing is perfect, dishes are on order, meat temps are spot on--everything is clicking. 

This is the point, right here, where Bills fans, in hindsight, think McBeane should have brought in an AppleBees chef JUST IN CASE something went wrong, so the restaurant could stay afloat. And this is the point where Bills fans think McDermott should have spent practice time getting that AppleBees chef up to snuff on the menu, instead of getting ready for opening night.

Now--we obviously know when the restaurant opened, Peterman took a ***** in the deep fryer and served it to the Queen of England. But the only one who should get blamed for that is Peterman. The restaurant owners did all they could.

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OP has a valid point, as everyone has come to learn as they saw this 1st hand. However, this dead horse carcus is getting so hammered we might need to bring in a new one!

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