why a vet at the backup QB position is so important

[Bing Bong]

I think everybody but McBeane knew veteran backup quarterbacks that have had a modicum of success and longevity are nice to have for your high overall draft pick quarterback.

 

They've lived and learnt.

[SoCal Deek]

28 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Not the way he played & acted.  He didn't want to be the Bills backup, he only wanted to start here.  Sort of like when Favre didn't want to do anything to help Rodgers, only at least Favre was playing.  

If you say so. How did that work out for him? Didn’t he just end up a backup anyway ?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

If you say so. How did that work out for him? Didn’t he just end up a backup anyway ?

 

...agree....find it hard to believe McBeane guaranteed him to be THE bonafide starter from Day One.....that's a Hugh move..........

[ThurmasThoman]

39 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

 

On a side note, I really find the Nathan Peterman situation puzzling.  What is it about the guy that inspired such confidence in both the coaching staff AND the front office.  Heck, after the preseason - lots of fans were optimistic that he would start the whole season and bring us back to the playoffs.  Think about all the decisions made by the Bills over the last 2 seasons, because of their unwavering confidence in Peterman.  There is absolutely no way these things happen if Peterman looks anything in practice like he does in games.

 

 

Well, the best analogy I can give is to consider a chef.

Say you are opening a fine dining restaurant and you hire a guy who went to a great culinary school. You interview him, and he has a great grasp of flavor profiles, building a menu, what's trendy in the culinary world, what's dated, what works well, what doesn't--and you can talk food with this guy for hours. He's green, but you like what you got. 

Now let's say the restaurant hasn't opened yet, so you work with him to build the menu. And wow! This guy GETS IT. You spend late nights going over the menu that you're creating together, talking concepts that other chefs (like McCaron) just don't get. He really blows you away with the way he instantly grasps that when you say "seasonal", you mean apples in the fall and fiddleheads in the spring. The more time that passes, the more you like him.

And what's best? He's there ALL the time. You show up at 6 because the range needs to be repaired, he's there working on the menu. You leave late because you were getting the blinds measured and he's there practicing his souffle.

Now you bring in the line chefs, and you watch him command the line. Are there bumps? Sure. He takes awhile to get his footing under him, but soon enough, everyone from the pastry chef to the sous chef is clicking with him. It looks good.

One last test before you open your doors--a soft debut for friends and family. And he KILLS IT.  Timing is perfect, dishes are on order, meat temps are spot on--everything is clicking. 

This is the point, right here, where Bills fans, in hindsight, think McBeane should have brought in an AppleBees chef JUST IN CASE something went wrong, so the restaurant could stay afloat. And this is the point where Bills fans think McDermott should have spent practice time getting that AppleBees chef up to snuff on the menu, instead of getting ready for opening night.

Now--we obviously know when the restaurant opened, Peterman took a ***** in the deep fryer and served it to the Queen of England. But the only one who should get blamed for that is Peterman. The restaurant owners did all they could.

[gobills1212]

OP has a valid point, as everyone has come to learn as they saw this 1st hand. However, this dead horse carcus is getting so hammered we might need to bring in a new one!

[wppete]

Peterman fooled everyone ? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Your comments on all of this are spot on IMO.

 

And you are right to suggest that 2019 is make or break time.  In fact, I anticipate Pegula moving on from this regime at the end of this season.  I'll be surprised if that doesn't happen.

 

 

Pegula's aren't going to start a revolving door in the front office.  They watched that movie in Cleveland and saw the result.  They know the roster coming out of 2017 was a train wreck.  They had to have agreed to dump the high paid underachievers and eat a bunch of dead money.  They have cleared the cap space, drafted some really good young players, accumulated a significant number of draft picks, and established a good defense.  Bill Polian was recently complementary of the job of the Bills coaching staff and front office in 2018.  I trust Polian's opinion.  If they were to dump McD and Beane at the end of 2019, they would spiral into the next version of the Browns.  Good coaches, free agent players, and good front office people would avoid the Bills like the plague.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I would take not having a GM and HC that thought Peterman had the tools to play in the NFL over a veteran QB.  

It takes a special kind of incompetence to go into the season with Allen and Peterman as the only QBs on the roster.  

 

[NoSaint]

57 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I would take not having a GM and HC that thought Peterman had the tools to play in the NFL over a veteran QB.  

It takes a special kind of incompetence to go into the season with Allen and Peterman as the only QBs on the roster.  

 

 

You hope they learn along the way but that, the Benjamin trade and a couple other moves do leave me nervous about this burn it all down and then rebuild approach. There have been some big decisions about players they know well and totally missed the boat with. 

 

With 80m and a bunch of picks they should come out with a few good pieces on offense but will this group nail selection and develop across the board?

[Aussie Joe]

Yep... not a great call to go with  rookie and Peterman to start the season..

 

I don’t want to dismiss it, but not sure dwelling on it now achieves much...

 

This regime is going to survive or otherwise on how Allen goes...

 

Get him some good pieces and give him every possible chance..

[NoHuddleKelly12]

While not thrilled with the approach to QB going into the 2018 season obviously, there is no question that NP earned the job coming out of camp/preseason. He just couldn’t get it together during the reg season games for whatever reason. What followed was brutal and it’s a near miracle that our QB situation was salvaged post October—but it was, and credit to Beane for owning his mistakes in this regard and doing what he needed to to shore up the position then and for this coming season. At least we seem to have a FO that can leave ego at the door for the sake of getting it right instead of stubbornly sticking with a failing plan. That gives me some comfort as we move forward with the development of JA and what should be an upgraded O. 

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

After reading this, it boggles the mind that the Bills went into the season with no veteran experience at QB. Even though Hoyer doesn't play in the actual games, he does so much for the Patriots that can't be quantified. https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/11/super-bowl-devin-jason-mccourty-brian-hoyer-patriots-rams

 

Thank god Beane learned his lesson and signed up two guys with experience immediately after the season. 

 

 

Dude, really interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

 

I ended up going through the mentions of specific plays and running the plays on NFL Game Pass. Fascinating stuff. Thanks again.

10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, I have very little confidence in their offensive moves.  They have a ton to prove.  

 

It blows my mind why every team doesn’t go into a season with 1) their starter 2) their veteran backup 3) their development guy.  Why would would ever settle at the qb position blows my mind.

 

obviously, I wasn’t a fan of the Allen pick.  But I hoped they would be smarter than previous Bills teams in their development of him.  They weren’t.  This is a make or break year for them.

 

 

Make or break year? Not at all. They pretty much get another year outside of a complete and utter meltdown.

 

Yes, that was a mistake, one they've already owned up to and learned from. But the owners love them and understand the value of patience and continuity.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Aussie Joe]

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Make or break year? Not at all. They pretty much get another year outside of a complete and utter meltdown.

 

Agreed.., they will get another year...

 

It will be playoffs or bust then though..

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I agree. For some reason McCarron needed to be dumped by the Bills and yet he’s still on an NFL roster to this day.

 

 

Yeah, it's weird.

 

Because outside of this case, pretty much every player you can think of who is dumped by one team never gets another shot or stays on another roster. Weird. That never happens. Not even to good teams. Take the Super Bowl winners, for example. They've never dumped a guy and had him stick on another roster.

 

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

With all due respect (and I hope you know I do respect you as a poster although I have become a little more skeptical of things), how is it hard to criticize?  Literally, Peterman was the worst qb in nfl history to play multiple games.

 

 

Yeah, um, no. There's no way to say "literally" that someone is the worst. Worst is a value judgment. An opinion.

 

You could probably, with enough grammatical and factual rejiggering, come up with a sentence that specified certain statistics in which he was the worst, but that sentence would have a ton less impact. Peterman shouldn't have been on the field, we now know. But sometimes you have to put a guy in game situations to be sure of that. And when the results come in, then you have more info to base a judgment on.

 

The final story of Peterman hasn't yet been written. He might end up surprising. Or not. We'll see as time passes.

 

As for criticizing the decision ... they've already admitted it was a mistake. The point has been made, by Beane himself, that he made a mistake by not bringing in Anderson earlier.

[Aussie Joe]

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, it's weird.

 

Because outside of this case, pretty much every player you can think of who is dumped by one team never gets another shot or stays on another roster. Weird. That never happens. Not even to good teams. Take the Super Bowl winners, for example. They've never dumped a guy and had him stick on another roster.

 

 

 

Actually, I thought he was traded..Has a player that’s ever been traded to another team for a draft pick actually remained on  that team for any length of time, or is this the first?

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Agreed.., they will get another year...

 

It will be playoffs or bust then though..

 

 

I wouldn't go that far at all.

 

What if Allen got injured? What if they won ten games but didn't make the playoffs? It's all fluid. This early there really is no answer yet to the question of what would happen if they don't make the playoffs in 2020.

 

49 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Actually, I thought he was traded..Has a player that’s ever been traded to another team for a draft pick actually remained on  that team for any length of time, or is this the first?

 

 

Thank you for making my point.

 

I was using the word "dumped" because SoCalDeek, the guy I was replying to, used it first. And IMO, "dumped" includes traded, especially when the trade was only for a low-round pick. If you disagree, fair enough, but I think it's pretty reasonable to say they dumped McCarron.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Thurman#1

[eball]

13 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Your comments on all of this are spot on IMO.

 

And you are right to suggest that 2019 is make or break time.  In fact, I anticipate Pegula moving on from this regime at the end of this season.  I'll be surprised if that doesn't happen.

 

 

Expect to be surprised then.  I'm almost 100% certain the Pegulas love the culture and stability McBeane have created within the organization.  They drafted a kid who appears to embody Buffalo and (with continued progression) looks the part of a 10-year QB.  They have a top 5 defense.  I respect posters such as @C.Biscuit97 who rightfully point out missteps in how McBeane have handled the offense, but I take the view that they entered a situation that needed a refresh in all areas and it just wasn't possible to address everything at once.  They tried bandaids at WR that didn't work.  They made an admitted mistake not bringing in Anderson sooner.  I'll never understand McD's love affair with Peterman but even he finally cut the cord there.  But there have been some "hits" on offense also.  The QB.  Foster.  Jones actually played much better last season and entering his third year should be an important contributor.  Dawkins has potential.  Teller has potential.

 

It puzzles me when some act as though the Bills McBeane inherited were "a couple of moves away" from being a competitor.  That was the mistaken belief that got Whaley canned.

 

Yes, you can look at McD's first draft (with Whaley's staff) and question the decision not to draft Mahomes.  Look back, though -- how many analysts and critics bashed the Bills for trading down and getting White?  It's only in retrospect, seeing what Mahomes did last season, that has led everyone to put on their 20/20 hindsight glasses.

 

Unless something completely unexpected occurs in 2019 (like a total collapse) McBeane aren't going anywhere.

[teef]

17 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

When McBeane took over the thought was Rex and his brother were disasters as coaches and the team just needed better coaching to take advantage of the talent here. 

 

They went a different direction. Plenty of fans here wanted them to draft a QB at 9. Who gives ***** what the critics/draft pundits think? 

 

The Bills could've used a Mahomes or Watson and they passed. 

 

[TigerJ]

17 hours ago, MJS said:

That's why McCarron was signed, but Peterman outplayed him. Then they brought in Anderson.

 

We've got a good group now, though. That's what's important.

Yeah, it's hard to heap too much blame on the Bills for deciding to start Peterman in the regular season given how well he played in preseason.  One good thing about Beane is that he seems willing to learn from his mistakes and move on.  Some GMs seem to hang on to their decisions well after they are proven to be terrible.

[mjt328]

15 hours ago, JohnnyGold said:

Well, the best analogy I can give is to consider a chef.

Say you are opening a fine dining restaurant and you hire a guy who went to a great culinary school. You interview him, and he has a great grasp of flavor profiles, building a menu, what's trendy in the culinary world, what's dated, what works well, what doesn't--and you can talk food with this guy for hours. He's green, but you like what you got. 

Now let's say the restaurant hasn't opened yet, so you work with him to build the menu. And wow! This guy GETS IT. You spend late nights going over the menu that you're creating together, talking concepts that other chefs (like McCaron) just don't get. He really blows you away with the way he instantly grasps that when you say "seasonal", you mean apples in the fall and fiddleheads in the spring. The more time that passes, the more you like him.

And what's best? He's there ALL the time. You show up at 6 because the range needs to be repaired, he's there working on the menu. You leave late because you were getting the blinds measured and he's there practicing his souffle.

Now you bring in the line chefs, and you watch him command the line. Are there bumps? Sure. He takes awhile to get his footing under him, but soon enough, everyone from the pastry chef to the sous chef is clicking with him. It looks good.

One last test before you open your doors--a soft debut for friends and family. And he KILLS IT.  Timing is perfect, dishes are on order, meat temps are spot on--everything is clicking. 

This is the point, right here, where Bills fans, in hindsight, think McBeane should have brought in an AppleBees chef JUST IN CASE something went wrong, so the restaurant could stay afloat. And this is the point where Bills fans think McDermott should have spent practice time getting that AppleBees chef up to snuff on the menu, instead of getting ready for opening night.

Now--we obviously know when the restaurant opened, Peterman took a ***** in the deep fryer and served it to the Queen of England. But the only one who should get blamed for that is Peterman. The restaurant owners did all they could.

 

Love this.