Bill Polian on Bills coaching and more....

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

Beane = McDermott

 

Are you saying McD is making the personnel decisions or that they're so in sync as to be interchangeable? I ask because I'm not a big fan of the personnel decisions but must give credit where it's due for maximizing win totals based on the rosters at hand. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

Are you saying McD is making the personnel decisions or that they're so in sync as to be interchangeable? I ask because I'm not a big fan of the personnel decisions but must give credit where it's due for maximizing win totals based on the rosters at hand. 

I think McDermott, who was hired before Beane and essentially got Beane hired, makes the final call on every decision.  It’s why 99.9% of teams, especially successful ones, have the GM hire the coach and not the other way around.

[CookieG]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Review Dick Jauron’s rosters and his record. 

 

 

Well a great deal of that roster was Jauron's doing. It was very evident during the 1st draft, when 3 of the 1st 4 players chose were DB's. He had a vision for his Cover 2 and pigeon holed players to fit the scheme.

 

Its why we had a 220 lb OLB...because Tampa had Robert Brooks. The problem was, Brooks ran around a 4.5 40, whereas our guy ran a 4.8.  He wanted a smaller DT for 3 tech...because 3 techs like Warren Sapp were shorter and quicker.  So we drafted John McCargo and signed Larry Tripplett as one of the first FA's. But neither was anything close to Warren Sapp. God... I can remember Tripplett being driven back 5-7 yards by some guards.  

 

The D that was inherited was one year and a Spikes injury from being 2nd in the league...but nearly all players were gone within a year. And for the most part, it was due to what Jauron saw in a defense.

 

On offense..well, Jauron could have been here 20 years and the offense would have remained bottom 5.

He was a guy that had no business getting involved in the offensive side of the ball. But as Turk Schonert revealed in his post-firing snit, Jauron was meddling in it. 

 

Jauron was a major player in how the roster looked, probably THE major player.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, CookieG said:

Well a great deal of that roster was Jauron's doing. It was very evident during the 1st draft, when 3 of the 1st 4 players chose were DB's. He had a vision for his Cover 2 and pigeon holed players to fit the scheme.

 

Its why we had a 220 lb OLB...because Tampa had Robert Brooks. The problem was, Brooks ran around a 4.5 40, whereas our guy ran a 4.8.  He wanted a smaller DT for 3 tech...because 3 techs like Warren Sapp were shorter and quicker.  So we drafted John McCargo and signed Larry Tripplett as one of the first FA's. But neither was anything close to Warren Sapp. God... I can remember Tripplett being driven back 5-7 yards by some guards.  

 

The D that was inherited was one year and a Spikes injury from being 2nd in the league...but nearly all players were gone within a year. And for the most part, it was due to what Jauron saw in a defense.

 

On offense..well, Jauron could have been here 20 years and the offense would have remained bottom 5.

He was a guy that had no business getting involved in the offensive side of the ball. But as Turk Schonert revealed in his post-firing snit, Jauron was meddling in it. 

 

Jauron was a major player in how the roster looked, probably THE major player.

 

McDermott is doing the same thing!  He is running this show.  

[eball]

23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think McDermott, who was hired before Beane and essentially got Beane hired, makes the final call on every decision.  It’s why 99.9% of teams, especially successful ones, have the GM hire the coach and not the other way around.

 

I don't think that is the case at all, and you have absolutely no evidence upon which to base that assertion.  Beane doesn't strike me as a "yes" man, and McD doesn't strike me as a "my way or the highway" kind of guy.  I believe they communicate regularly and make moves they both believe are in the best interests of the organization moving forward.  As to who holds the deciding vote if there is a disagreement?  First of all, I bet that scenario occurs much less frequently than you think.  The reason these guys are working so well together is because they share a unified vision of how to build a football team.

 

I'd bet dollars to donuts Beane has the final say in the draft room -- and does anyone believe McD is evaluating trade proposals?

 

Come on, guys.

[CookieG]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

McDermott is doing the same thing!  He is running this show.  

 

That's my fear...on the offensive side of the ball.

 

I actually like him as a defensive coach, a lot. He might be a base Cover 2/Tampa 2 guy, but he's not married to the scheme. He changes things up is more aggressive and blitzes more than the normal old Tampa 2 guy.

 

On offense...I have concerns, to put it mildly. The talent brought in on offense, with few exceptions has been unimpressive. Im a believer that this should be his last chance. If the offense doesn't improve...substantially...its time for a change. The odd thing is, I'd stil lgive him the offer to stay as DC. 

 

 

[IgotBILLStopay]

On 2/9/2019 at 10:55 AM, matter2003 said:

I'm not sure how anyone could say winning 15 games over the past 2 years with the roster we have had is anything short of unbeliebvable...Hue jackson would have been 0-32.

Even Hue would have beaten the Jets at least once in 2 years:)

[C.Biscuit97]

12 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I don't think that is the case at all, and you have absolutely no evidence upon which to base that assertion.  Beane doesn't strike me as a "yes" man, and McD doesn't strike me as a "my way or the highway" kind of guy.  I believe they communicate regularly and make moves they both believe are in the best interests of the organization moving forward.  As to who holds the deciding vote if there is a disagreement?  First of all, I bet that scenario occurs much less frequently than you think.  The reason these guys are working so well together is because they share a unified vision of how to build a football team.

 

I'd bet dollars to donuts Beane has the final say in the draft room -- and does anyone believe McD is evaluating trade proposals?

 

Come on, guys.

Well of course you don’t. ? 

 

what has Beane done to show he is some great powerful front office type?  He was a PR intern whose friend got him a great promotion after he got a head coaching job.   I’m sure if they are debating on a player, Beane will definitely make the call.  Mcdermott will totally let him. I definitely believe that. 

 

And that hat is the whole problem with how dumb the hiring process has been under the Peguals.  They had Whaley be the GM, yet never let him hire coaches.  Then, they hire the Coach, keep Whaley through the draft, fire him, and then hire SM’s friend.  It certainly leads you open to criticism if it doesn’t work.  I love the Pegulas but they have made very bad hiring decisions so far as sports owners.  I hope they are learning from their mistakes.  Hire a GM and let him build the team.  

10 minutes ago, CookieG said:

 

That's my fear...on the offensive side of the ball.

 

I actually like him as a defensive coach, a lot. He might be a base Cover 2/Tampa 2 guy, but he's not married to the scheme. He changes things up is more aggressive and blitzes more than the normal old Tampa 2 guy.

 

On offense...I have concerns, to put it mildly. The talent brought in on offense, with few exceptions has been unimpressive. Im a believer that this should be his last chance. If the offense doesn't improve...substantially...its time for a change. The odd thing is, I'd stil lgive him the offer to stay as DC. 

 

 

Agree 100%.  That’s why I thing he is running the team because our defensive moves have been mainly good while the offensive ones suck.  

 

I think SM is an average coach, like most coaches in the nfl.  But I feel he could be successful if he had a strong GM and he just focused on coaching. 

[B Fan in LA]

8 minutes ago, eball said:

I believe they communicate regularly and make moves they both believe are in the best interests of the organization moving forward.  As to who holds the deciding vote if there is a disagreement?  First of all, I bet that scenario occurs much less frequently than you think.  The reason these guys are working so well together is because they share a unified vision of how to build a football team.

 

I agree with this, but that doesn't mean I think they are really good at what they do, either.

They've done some very curious things in their tenure..................for example...........

 

They signed AJ Mc to be the veteran guide for NP and JA, then traded him before the season, and were married to NP.

It took way too long, IMHO before they realized they made a mistake. There were calls from most of the posters

on this board to dump NP as the starter after game 1. The posters were right, McB was wrong.

Then they dragged in Derrick Anderson and gave him the ball with not enough prep. A curious move.

 

They kept KB in the starting lineup way too long, IMHO. Again, most of the posters from TBD were calling

for KB to be sat down after 2 games. Again, the posters were correct, and McB was wrong.

 

Who's responsible for these personnel choices ? Probably McDermott.........

but we didn't see Beane handling his end of the process very well, either.

 

 

[eball]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well of course you don’t. ? 

 

what has Beane done to show he is some great powerful front office type?  He was a PR intern whose friend got him a great promotion after he got a head coaching job.   I’m sure if they are debating on a player, Beane will definitely make the call.  Mcdermott will totally let him. I definitely believe that. 

 

And that hat is the whole problem with how dumb the hiring process has been under the Peguals.  They had Whaley be the GM, yet never let him hire coaches.  Then, they hire the Coach, keep Whaley through the draft, fire him, and then hire SM’s friend.  It certainly leads you open to criticism if it doesn’t work.  I love the Pegulas but they have made very bad hiring decisions so far as sports owners.  I hope they are learning from their mistakes.  Hire a GM and let him build the team.  

 

I really don't go out of my way to paint a rosy picture, but this entire post is an exaggeration and not particularly close to reality.  To imply that Beane isn't qualified and was hired simply because McD knew he would have his lackey is just ridiculous.  How Beane got his start is relevant how?

 

I don't need to rehash the concept of keeping the GM and scouting staff on through a draft again, do I?  It would have made no sense to clean house right before McD's first draft.  They kept Whaley, who by all accounts was working in lock step with McD and I agree, McD made the final calls during that draft.  But it wasn't dysfunctional.

 

I absolutely lobbied for Whaley to be given the chance to hire his own HC, but I have learned there is more than one way to run an organization -- and we've seen from the moves Whaley made as GM that if your coach and GM aren't on the same page there can be disastrous results.

 

The Pegulas, along with Beane and McD, should be judged by what happens over the next couple of seasons.

[ExWNYer]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Review Dick Jauron’s rosters and his record. 

 

Polian is the best GM in franchise history but the game has passed him by a long time ago.  See the last NFL team he worked with.  

He’s actually pretty good in sports he is well versed in like basketball and Soccer.  The guy has a crazy work ethic and seems like he works 24 hours a day.  But his football takes are terrible.

Beane = McDermott

 

 

That's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it and can watch him/listen to him, if you like. I personally thinks he's a loud-mouthed 'hot taker' and find him neither interesting nor informative.

[IgotBILLStopay]

i'm sry but Polian is too far removed from reality for me to take him seriously (though I agree we are in a good place with our coach / GM). C'mon we had this last year:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bill-polian-calls-nick-foles-an-icon-says-eagles-should-demand-absurd-asking-price/ 

[BillsVet]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

And Dick Jauron.........for all of his Ivy League educated background........was a slow blinker in the heat of the moment.     There were tons of comical examples of this from his time in Chicago even BEFORE the Bills hired him.........but none more typified his ineptitude than the handling of the epic last minute Monday night debacle versus Dallas. ?

 

I have never laughed so hard in my life........the combination of Jauron's incredibly predictable buffoonery and the thousands of incensed fans going ape-***** crazy around me was a moment of Bills fandom I will forever cherish.

 

IMO, that the worst loss since the MCM given the opponent, audience, being a plus 5 in turnovers (with 2 defensive scores!) and a getting KO return for a TD. Oh, and Wade was the opposing HC.  

 

The end to that game was the most systematic coaching break-down I've ever seen.  Lose an onside kick, Buffalo's defense then allows Crayton to catch a pass at the sideline when Dallas had no timeouts, see Folk miss the FG, but Buffalo call a TO...setting up another kick from 53 which was good to give Dallas the 25-24 win.  

 

I will never forget that game.  For the obvious and being in the BN after the game.

[Bill from NYC]

17 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

And Dick Jauron.........for all of his Ivy League educated background........was a slow blinker in the heat of the moment.     There were tons of comical examples of this from his time in Chicago even BEFORE the Bills hired him.........but none more typified his ineptitude than the handling of the epic last minute Monday night debacle versus Dallas. ?

 

I have never laughed so hard in my life........the combination of Jauron's incredibly predictable buffoonery and the thousands of incensed fans going ape-***** crazy around me was a moment of Bills fandom I will forever cherish.

Would you refresh my memory please?

[Thurman#1]

On 2/10/2019 at 1:59 AM, LSHMEAB said:

This is why I'm confused as to why people are more sold on Beane than McDermott.

 

Teardown/reconstruction/whatever; Beane has yet to put together a competitive roster whereas McDermott has done a fine job with crap rosters. 

 

McDermott has gotten more results than Beane thus far.

 

 

Of course he has. Beane has only had one draft. Not to mention that most of the personnel work they've done have been all about bringing in a QB while cleaning up the cap.

 

GM work, especially when it starts with a rebuild, nearly always takes longer to evaluate than coaching.

 

Beane's been here a shorter time and is doing a job that takes longer to (reasonably) evaluate.

 

17 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Review Dick Jauron’s rosters and his record. 

 

Polian is the best GM in franchise history but the game has passed him by a long time ago.  See the last NFL team he worked with.  

 

 

Considering Polian's son Chris was the one making the personnel decisions the last three years of Bill's reign in Indy, the last team Bill worked with in a personnel capacity were the 2006 Colts.

 

Who did alright.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 2/10/2019 at 2:16 PM, B Fan in LA said:

I think it's a stretch to say that McBeane is making the best of a bad situation.

They hired Juan Castillo, and fired Castillo, because our OLine is crap.

They hired Danny Crossman, and fired Crossman because out ST are crap.

They signed AJ McCarron, and traded MCarron, because he was not good.

They started the season with 2 untested QBs, Peterman and J Allen.

They replaced Peterman, because he was terrible.

They scrambled to replace Peterman, and brought in Derrick Anderson, a washed up QB.

Anderson was injured and they brought in Barkley. Now we have 2 veteran QB's to assist Allen. WTF ?

 

 

 

And they took over a bad defense and built an excellent one. They cleaned up a horribly bollixed salary cap. They finally after all these years bit the bullet and did what had to be done to trade way the hell up high and bring in a guy who at least has the potential to be a real franchise QB. And the two drafts have been really good.

 

Yeah, they've made some mistakes. But for every coach they've fired they've kept more. Two veteran QBs to assist Allen and back up? Nothing wrong with it ... they're both dirt cheap. Beane has admitted he should have brought in Anderson as soon as he traded McCarron.

 

So yeah, they have made some real mistakes. But the mistakes are in the minority. They still have a lot to prove but they've been obviously promising and their methods are smart. Seems like that hasn't been true of a Bills GM since Polian ... and Butler if you ignore his inability to handle the salary cap. They still have a lot to prove but I'm really excited about a group that seems obviously to be headed in the right direction.

[CLTbills]

On 2/9/2019 at 11:59 AM, LSHMEAB said:

This is why I'm confused as to why people are more sold on Beane than McDermott.

 

Teardown/reconstruction/whatever; Beane has yet to put together a competitive roster whereas McDermott has done a fine job with crap rosters. 

 

McDermott has gotten more results than Beane thus far.

People never cease to amaze me with this "take"

[Nihilarian]

Looking back at the 2018 draft and free agents Beane hit a home run many times with first just being patient enough to wait to #7 to get the player he wanted all along.

 

And not going for what the majority of this board wanted him to do ...which was a trade up with the NY Giants and giving up the 2018 draft plus a 2019 draft pick to the #2 spot to draft Josh Rosen. I still recall the majority of this board talking like they were ''gutshot" when they announced Allen over Rosen. 

 

Not only did Beane get his franchise QB, but he also stepped up and found the new, young, MLBer in the first at #16. 

 

Now, look at two other players the Buffalo Bills picked up in CB Levi Wallace, WR Robert Foster who have been drafted in the first round in many redraft posts. It's like Buffalo got four first rounders in 2018.

 

Sure, both Beane and McD have made mistakes but it's how you recover from those mistakes and correct them. Going forward I'm hoping that the offensive line gets fixed,  the receiver corps gets some quality upgrades at WR, TE. 

 

For McD to show he is worthy he needs to beat the Patriots with Brady and if he manages that he will be here to stay. 

[LSHMEAB]

52 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

People never cease to amaze me with this "take"

Yeah. I've heard all the criticism and yet to receive a valid rebuttal. But thank you for your "take."

 

The statement reads like this; "The coaching has been more impressive than the personnel accumulated."

 

Where does your opinion differ? You'll be the first if you have an actual answer.

[The_Dude]

On 2/10/2019 at 5:02 AM, formerlyofCtown said:

Or maybe you just assume nonsense Kap.

 

Maybe you should try to make sense next time. 

[LSHMEAB]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Of course he has. Beane has only had one draft. Not to mention that most of the personnel work they've done have been all about bringing in a QB while cleaning up the cap.

 

GM work, especially when it starts with a rebuild, nearly always takes longer to evaluate than coaching.

 

Beane's been here a shorter time and is doing a job that takes longer to (reasonably) evaluate.

 

I get that we're only two years in or one year in or that 2019 is actually year one; whichever you prefer. But he hasn't produced a competitive roster. I'm underwhelmed by last seasons FA signings & I'm not thrilled with squandering a third rounder on KB or any of the offensive acquisitions for that matter. The reality here is that everything hinges on Allen. If he got that right, he's gonna be fine because my hunch is that McD is calling the shots on much of the defensive personnel.

 

To this point, McDermott has proven he can coach garbage rosters to 9-7 & 6-10 records. On paper, they look like they should have been 5-11 and 2-14. That is impressive and something I can pinpoint.

 

While it's relatively early, Beane hasn't proven anything. I find it puzzling that it's more acceptable to ridicule SM than it is to question BB. It's bizarre to tell you the truth. BB has torn down the house. There is no way to know what kind of builder he is until we have tangible evidence that he can field a competitive roster. While I understand it's too early to say he's a failure, it's also WAY too early to say he's a success. This will be the defining off season.

 

If Beane does his job, the challenge for SM will be to take a quality roster to the next level. We've seen that he's capable of getting the most out of trash.

 

So the central premise of my original post is that I have more confidence in SM than I do BB for the simple fact that I've seen SM get actual results.

 

Maybe Beane's a genius and SM will flame out. Who knows? I'm talking about this exact moment in Bills history.

Edited February 11, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[GunnerBill]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 4:59 PM, LSHMEAB said:

This is why I'm confused as to why people are more sold on Beane than McDermott.

 

Teardown/reconstruction/whatever; Beane has yet to put together a competitive roster whereas McDermott has done a fine job with crap rosters. 

 

McDermott has gotten more results than Beane thus far.

 

I agree with you.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/bills-today-who-are-the-top-pass-catchers-in-the-2019-nfl-draft-according-to-spo

 

 

 

 

Sorry if that was already posted 

 

[Logic]

Imagine watching the Bills bring in the rookie class they just did, which includes not only likely franchise players Allen and Edmunds, but also what look to be quality players and/or draft steals in Taron Johnson and Harrison Philips....AND get UDFAs at CB and WR who were not only legit starters but amongst the best rookies at their positions....and concluding that the Bills front office doesn't know what its doing.

?‍♂️

[Nextmanup]

On 2/9/2019 at 1:19 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Or perhaps I am just comfortable with the reality either way.

 

It's a hobby and entertainment...........I want to understand why it is and what to expect and I can be objective about it.

 

You know how the great athletes say "embrace the suck"........well the realistic Bills should do that with the Bills if necessary........or you end up like our resident apologists dying a thousand deaths while they hope for luck and fate to intervene in Bills results.

 

As for my screen name............don't expose your still-wet-rodent from the BBMB sinking ship nature..........I've been posting here since 1998 and have had plenty of encouraging things to say when it's deserved?.........there's just been this little "absence of success" thing.    Doesn't stop me from enjoying the game or the tailgating.

 

Most posters here do not operate in accordance with the highlighted text.

 

They are here as members of a fan club, and are here to say "go Bills" no matter what the situation.

 

I respect their right to enjoy the team on that level, I just wish there was a corner of the world for them to disappear to where they can all high five each other all day on their terms, and leave the discussion forum for objective discussion.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

On 2/9/2019 at 5:12 PM, eball said:

 

Unfortunately your know-it-all attitude removes much of the enjoyment from your discussion. If anyone doesn’t agree with you 100% you label them as an apologist or ridicule their opinion. That’s not fun. 

 

 

He was same as when he was on radio. You might remember him - Chuck Dickerson.

[Punching Bag]

On 2/10/2019 at 2:48 AM, Aussie Joe said:

 

Can I get a bet on with these Las Vegas geniuses that the Bills won’t be the worst team in the NFL this season?

 

You don’t really think they will be right?

 

 

 

I am sure B fan in LA is a bookie there and will take the bet since he has so little confidence in Coach McD.

Question is will he just stick it in his pocket and change his name?