Adam Schefter: Julian Edelman Is a Hall Of Fame candidate

[teef]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Julie needs another 4-5 years to qualify.

 

he'll need far more than that.  the guy has barely cracked 1000 yrd twice.  there's guys like issac bruce who are still waiting to get in, and he's had what, 10,000 yards more than edelman.  he's just not that great of a player day in and day out to be a hof'er.  

[MJS]

1 minute ago, Mark92 said:

I literally said to get past your hang up on them not to completely toss them out.  He's a HOF player in my book and in a lot of people's book.  We can agree to disagree.  

 

Your book doesn't matter. Neither does mine, BTW. It's up to the selection committee.

 

I hope they judge him by his full body of work, which is totally lacking, rather than his ability to ride coattails into the playoffs.

[teef]

Just now, Mark92 said:

I forgot it's impossible to have an opinion on this board.  Either drink the cool aid or be ridiculed.  

this has nothing to do with "kool aid" or the pats.  get over it.  

Just now, MJS said:

 

Your book doesn't matter. Neither does mine, BTW. It's up to the selection committee.

 

I hope they judge him by his full body of work, which is totally lacking, rather than his ability to ride coattails into the playoffs.

i don't know why people don't understand this.  it's an entire career that get you in.

[row_33]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

he'll need far more than that.  the guy has barely cracked 1000 yrd twice.  there's guys like issac bruce who are still waiting to get in, and he's had what, 10,000 yards more than edelman.  he's just not that great of a player day in and day out to be a hof'er.  

 

Lynn Swann was made to wait along time to get in, i never had any doubts he belonged

 

but it’s the Harold Baines Era for what used to take a lot to get into a legit HOF....

 

[row_33]

They’ll set up a side committee that lets in Julian, just you watch....

 

 

He will get in and every day at Canton at least 100 Pats fans will be there praising him, ruining your enjoyment....  

 

 

[Mark92]

I totally understand how hall of fame voting works.  I know his regular season numbers are not close to the threshold that gets you in.  However, there is not another receiver in NFL history that has his post season numbers and accomplishments without the regular season numbers.  He is an interesting case and I believe his post season numbers will get him in.  You all can feel how you like and make your arguments with voter history on your side.  I'm just saying I believe his post season numbers which probably will climb more should get him in.  Not 1st ballot obviously but he will get in.  

[teef]

5 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

I totally understand how hall of fame voting works.  I know his regular season numbers are not close to the threshold that gets you in.  However, there is not another receiver in NFL history that has his post season numbers and accomplishments without the regular season numbers.  He is an interesting case and I believe his post season numbers will get him in.  You all can feel how you like and make your arguments with voter history on your side.  I'm just saying I believe his post season numbers which probably will climb more should get him in.  Not 1st ballot obviously but he will get in.  

ehhhhhhh.

 

again, this wasn't just my opinion about edelman.  it was the people who actually vote on the inductions that thought the idea was insane.  post season stats alone will not get you in.  that's what edelman has.  he's an amazing wr who stepped up in a huge way when he had to.  so did joe flacco.  neither should be in the hall.

[row_33]

11 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

I totally understand how hall of fame voting works.  I know his regular season numbers are not close to the threshold that gets you in.  However, there is not another receiver in NFL history that has his post season numbers and accomplishments without the regular season numbers.  He is an interesting case and I believe his post season numbers will get him in.  You all can feel how you like and make your arguments with voter history on your side.  I'm just saying I believe his post season numbers which probably will climb more should get him in.  Not 1st ballot obviously but he will get in.  

 

Harold ***** Baines got in with a SJW bogus side committee.

 

anything goes now

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

On 2/4/2019 at 9:12 PM, jimmy10 said:

Well, this should be a real JUICEy debate with a lot of HiGH minded discussion. 

 

PEDelman.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

53 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

 

The Patriots hate is strong in here..... As it should be.  I never said to look past his regular season numbers.  Truth is most players only have regular season numbers.  Edelman has both and his post season numbers will get him in.  There will come a point where a lot of these Patriots are going to make their way in because of the postseason accomplishments.  

[dave mcbride]

He shouldn't get in based on his regular season stats, but I'm a firm believer that postseason numbers should be taken into consideration. It's why Terrell Davis, who had 1,140 rushing yards and 12 TDs in 8 postseason games (extrapolated to 16 games, that's 2,280 yards and 24 TDs) against the highest level of competition, is in -- and rightfully so. Edelman has 115 receptions and 1,412 receptions in 18 games (only 14 starts; he was a special teamer when he started there). That's damn impressive. 

[Mark92]

28 minutes ago, teef said:

ehhhhhhh.

 

again, this wasn't just my opinion about edelman.  it was the people who actually vote on the inductions that thought the idea was insane.  post season stats alone will not get you in.  that's what edelman has.  he's an amazing wr who stepped up in a huge way when he had to.  so did joe flacco.  neither should be in the hall.

I think his postseason will get him in.  It's not just one season like flacco.  He does it all the time.  

[teef]

Just now, Mark92 said:

I think his postseason will get him in.  It's not just one season like flacco.  He does it all the time.  

i suppose it's just a question of whether post season play can get you in.  i don't think it's even that his regular season stats are good enough that his playoff stats will push him over the top.  it would be mostly based on the post season, which he was fantastic in.

22 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He shouldn't get in based on his regular season stats, but I'm a firm believer that postseason numbers should be taken into consideration. It's why Terrell Davis, who had 1,140 rushing yards and 12 TDs in 8 postseason games (extrapolated to 16 games, that's 2,280 yards and 24 TDs) against the highest level of competition, is in -- and rightfully so. Edelman has 115 receptions and 1,412 receptions in 18 games (only 14 starts; he was a special teamer when he started there). That's damn impressive. 

terrell davis also had huge numbers during the season.  didn't have have over 2000 yards one year?  the guy was a game changer all year round.  edelman isn't nearly as much if at all.

[dave mcbride]

8 minutes ago, teef said:

i suppose it's just a question of whether post season play can get you in.  i don't think it's even that his regular season stats are good enough that his playoff stats will push him over the top.  it would be mostly based on the post season, which he was fantastic in.

terrell davis also had huge numbers during the season.  didn't have have over 2000 yards one year?  the guy was a game changer all year round.  edelman isn't nearly as much if at all.

No, he's not, but I won't be surprised if he gets another 250 catches or so over the next three seasons and ends up with ~750-800 for his whole career. His career ain't over yet.

[C.Biscuit97]

Has he ever even been a number 1 option on the Pats?  How many other players could do similar in the same role?  He is another Tom Brady creation like Deion Branch, Wes Welker (again who was a better player than JE), David Patton, David Givens, etc.

 

he is a little scumbag and made a nice career for himself catching 5 yard passes from the best QB ever.  But putting him in the HOF just goes a step further in devaluing it.  

[teef]

7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

No, he's not, but I won't be surprised if he gets another 250 catches or so over the next three seasons and ends up with ~750-800 for his whole career. His career ain't over yet.

never say never i suppose.  but besides catches, doesn't total yards matter?  he'd have to play longer than a few seasons to catch up.  to me, hall of famers should be guys that their team can't do without.  if he wasn't on the pats, i don't think their dominance would be any less.  they would have plugged and played another guy into that roll, and life would go on.  

 

his numbers in the playoffs are huge because he's there all the time.  being on the pats alone plumps up those numbers.  not to take anything way from his play in the playoffs, because he deserved the mvp many times over.  he's been a game changer in some important game absolutely, but that's not who he has been over his entire career.  shouldn't that be who the hof is reserved for?

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Has he ever even been a number 1 option on the Pats?  How many other players could do similar in the same role?  He is another Tom Brady creation like Deion Branch, Wes Welker (again who was a better player than JE), David Patton, David Givens, etc.

 

he is a little scumbag and made a nice career for himself catching 5 yard passes from the best QB ever.  But putting him in the HOF just goes a step further in devaluing it.  

agreed.  this was the point i was trying to make as well.

[C.Biscuit97]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

No, he's not, but I won't be surprised if he gets another 250 catches or so over the next three seasons and ends up with ~750-800 for his whole career. His career ain't over yet.

Catches is such an overblown stat.  JE gets a lot of catches becaus teams pass a ton more.  Catches is so misleading when you compare guys from this generation to previous ones.  

 

The HOF should be reversed for greatness.  Cole Beasley on the Pats isn’t greatness.

[Mark92]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Has he ever even been a number 1 option on the Pats?  How many other players could do similar in the same role?  He is another Tom Brady creation like Deion Branch, Wes Welker (again who was a better player than JE), David Patton, David Givens, etc.

 

he is a little scumbag and made a nice career for himself catching 5 yard passes from the best QB ever.  But putting him in the HOF just goes a step further in devaluing it.  

When Tom Brady has needed a 1st down he goes to Edelman.  Scumbags make the hall as well.  Character doesn't get you in unfortunately.  

4 minutes ago, teef said:

never say never i suppose.  but besides catches, doesn't total yards matter?  he'd have to play longer than a few seasons to catch up.  to me, hall of famers should be guys that their team can't do without.  if he wasn't on the pats, i don't think their dominance would be any less.  they would have plugged and played another guy into that roll, and life would go on.  

 

his numbers in the playoffs are huge because he's there all the time.  being on the pats alone plumps up those numbers.  not to take anything way from his play in the playoffs, because he deserved the mvp many times over.  he's been a game changer in some important game absolutely, but that's not who he has been over his entire career.  shouldn't that be who the hof

Jerry Rice has huge numbers in the postseason because he was a 49er.  You can't blame a player for playing on good teams.  Eric Moulds would have been amazing in the postseason if the team could get him there! 

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

When Tom Brady has needed a 1st down he goes to Edelman.  Scumbags make the hall as well.  Character doesn't get you in unfortunately.  

He would go to Cole Beasley if he was in the role.  Same with average solid to decent slot receiver in the nfl.  JE runs good option routes and has good chemistry with Brady.  He could easily be replaced and they won’t miss a beat.  Just like the Pats did with Welker, a much better player than JE who will not get in the HOF.

 

and I agree about the character.  I just want to point out that he is a cheating scumbag who takes cheap shots.

 

i just looked up the stats between Welker and Little Julian.  Welker has almost double JE’s yards and Tds and he isn’t sniffing the HOF.  Some people are just prisoners of the moments. Is Brandon Stokley making the HOF?

8 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

When Tom Brady has needed a 1st down he goes to Edelman.  Scumbags make the hall as well.  Character doesn't get you in unfortunately.  

Jerry Rice has huge numbers in the postseason because he was a 49er.  You can't blame a player for playing on good teams.  Eric Moulds would have been amazing in the postseason if the team could get him there! 

You don’t see the problem with comparing Rice and JE?  You can’t be in the HOF if teams don’t game plan to stop you.  

Edited February 6, 2019 by C.Biscuit97

[dave mcbride]

16 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Catches is such an overblown stat.  JE gets a lot of catches becaus teams pass a ton more.  Catches is so misleading when you compare guys from this generation to previous ones.  

 

The HOF should be reversed for greatness.  Cole Beasley on the Pats isn’t greatness.

Well, he's great in the postseason, and I'm a firm believer that the postseason matters -- A LOT. I also think he's at least as good as Welker, and let's not forget that Welker choked big time against the Giants in the 2011 SB and the Ravens in the 2012 AFC championship game early in the second half when the Pats had a chance to put the game away. Those were two huge drops on relatively easy throws that would have changed the game if caught.  The drop in the SB arguably cost them the game. If he catches that, they're in the red zone and can probably run out the clock. 

 

I'm not saying Edelman should get in, by the way. 

@C.Biscuit97  -- Edelman never did this. Watch this play closely. It's a terrible drop: 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by dave mcbride

[teef]

12 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

When Tom Brady has needed a 1st down he goes to Edelman.  Scumbags make the hall as well.  Character doesn't get you in unfortunately.  

Jerry Rice has huge numbers in the postseason because he was a 49er.  You can't blame a player for playing on good teams.  Eric Moulds would have been amazing in the postseason if the team could get him there! 

ok...don't you think that jerry rice did a few nice things during the regular season too?  that's a terrible analogy.  jerry rice, because of the player he was for years, elevated the 49ers, and was a major reason for even going to the playoffs.  on the pats, it would have been edelman or someone else they replaced him with.  it's been done many times by the pats.  to even compare the two is insane.

Edited February 6, 2019 by teef

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, Mark92 said:

I totally understand how hall of fame voting works.  I know his regular season numbers are not close to the threshold that gets you in.  However, there is not another receiver in NFL history that has his post season numbers and accomplishments without the regular season numbers.  He is an interesting case and I believe his post season numbers will get him in.  You all can feel how you like and make your arguments with voter history on your side.  I'm just saying I believe his post season numbers which probably will climb more should get him in.  Not 1st ballot obviously but he will get in.  

This post has a better shot at the hall of fame than Edelman does.

 

And Edelman is good.

[Mark92]

19 minutes ago, teef said:

ok...don't you think that jerry rice did a few nice things during the regular season too?  that's a terrible analogy.  jerry rice, because of the player he was for years, elevated the 49ers, and was a major reason for even going to the playoffs.  on the pats, it would have been edelman or someone else they replaced him with.  it's been done many times by the pats.  to even compare the two is insane.

You missed the Analogy.  Rice was a receiver with amazing post season numbers because he played on a great team that got to the postseason a bunch.    They CAN be compared in that aspect.    

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, teef said:

i suppose it's just a question of whether post season play can get you in.  i don't think it's even that his regular season stats are good enough that his playoff stats will push him over the top.  it would be mostly based on the post season, which he was fantastic in.

terrell davis also had huge numbers during the season.  didn't have have over 2000 yards one year?  the guy was a game changer all year round.  edelman isn't nearly as much if at all.

 

Terrell Davis doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame and neither does Edelman.

[Rico]

28 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Well, he's great in the postseason, and I'm a firm believer that the postseason matters -- A LOT. I also think he's at least as good as Welker, and let's not forget that Welker choked big time against the Giants in the 2011 SB and the Ravens in the 2012 AFC championship game early in the second half when the Pats had a chance to put the game away. Those were two huge drops on relatively easy throws that would have changed the game if caught.  The drop in the SB arguably cost them the game. If he catches that, they're in the red zone and can probably run out the clock. 

 

I'm not saying Edelman should get in, by the way. 

@C.Biscuit97  -- Edelman never did this. Watch this play closely. It's a terrible drop: 

 

Yeah, I agree, Edelman > Walker. Don’t think he’s a HOF-er, but he is $ and a legit Super Bowl MVP,  not too shabby.

[Stank_Nasty]

2 hours ago, teef said:

he'll need far more than that.  the guy has barely cracked 1000 yrd twice.  there's guys like issac bruce who are still waiting to get in, and he's had what, 10,000 yards more than edelman.  he's just not that great of a player day in and day out to be a hof'er.  

not to mention bruce actually averaged 6 more yds per game in the postseason than Edelman has as well.... people are looking at this from a raw cumulative numbers perspective. that's just foolish. obviously edelmans yardage and catch totals are gonna be huge. he's played in a ton of postseason games. a more accurate way to judge would be too look at his per game rankings in the postseason..... and i'm guessing that those wouldn't be nearly as impressive. 

 

this discussion is a joke to me.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[teef]

5 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

You missed the Analogy.  Rice was a receiver with amazing post season numbers because he played on a great team that got to the postseason a bunch.    They CAN be compared in that aspect.    

rice was a dominant wr1 all of his career.  edelman was not.  jerry rice helped make his qbs.  edelman was not.  i understood the analogy, i just didn't love it.

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Terrell Davis doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame and neither does Edelman.

i was a bit surprised when TD got in, but i understood it.  when he was healthy, TD was arguably the best at his position.  edelman was never that.

2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

bruce actually averaged 6 more yds per game in the postseason than Edelman has as well.... people are looking at this from a raw cumulative numbers perspective. that's just foolish. obviously edelmans yardage and catch totals are gonna be huge. he's played in a ton of postseason games. a more accurate way to judge would be too look at his per game rankings in the postseason..... and i'm sure that those wouldn't be nearly as impressive. 

 

this discussion is a joke to me.

i think the win and the mvp are so fresh that it's causing a reaction.  not to take anything away from edelman, but he's just not a hof guy.   if he ends up getting in, i won't be upset, but i will question the criteria.

[row_33]

8 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Terrell Davis doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame and neither does Edelman.

 

They do what they do 

 

i wouldnt have put TD in

 

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

rice was a dominant wr1 all of his career.  edelman was not.  jerry rice helped make his qbs.  edelman was not.  i understood the analogy, i just didn't love it.

i was a bit surprised when TD got in, but i understood it.  when he was healthy, TD was arguably the best at his position.  edelman was never that.

 

TD had one phenomenal season and a couple very good seasons.  That's a nice career, but it's not a HOF career, in my opinion.  Without the 2K yard season, he wouldn't even sniff Canton.  I think it was a horrible move to vote him in.  But, then again, Joe Namath shouldn't be in, either, so I guess Canton's been watered down for a long time.

[teef]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

TD had one phenomenal season and a couple very good seasons.  That's a nice career, but it's not a HOF career, in my opinion.  Without the 2K yard season, he wouldn't even sniff Canton.  I think it was a horrible move to vote him in.  But, then again, Joe Namath shouldn't be in, either, so I guess Canton's been watered down for a long time.

i think this was a huge part of it too.

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

TD had one phenomenal season and a couple very good seasons.  That's a nice career, but it's not a HOF career, in my opinion.  Without the 2K yard season, he wouldn't even sniff Canton.  I think it was a horrible move to vote him in.  But, then again, Joe Namath shouldn't be in, either, so I guess Canton's been watered down for a long time.

very similar to gale sayers production. 4 years of elite production and gone too soon. what are your thoughts on him? 

 

I totally understand an argument against davis but you team up that 4 year run with MASSIVE playoff numbers and I have no real issue with is induction. 1100 yds and 12 td in 8 playoff games? my lord.

[Mark92]

6 minutes ago, teef said:

rice was a dominant wr1 all of his career.  edelman was not.  jerry rice helped make his qbs.  edelman was not.  i understood the analogy, i just didn't love it.

i was a bit surprised when TD got in, but i understood it.  when he was healthy, TD was arguably the best at his position.  edelman was never that.

i think the win and the mvp are so fresh that it's causing a reaction.  not to take anything away from edelman, but he's just not a hof guy.   if he ends up getting in, i won't be upset, but i will question the criteria.

I think these Patriots are going to change the criteria.  Brady, Gronk and Moss are solid HOF players but other than that who is there?  I bet with their success a few player get in that probably wouldn't if they played on teams without the postseason success.

[Stank_Nasty]

here's some perspective.... people are ranting and raving about Edelman and his combined numbers through 18 freaking playoff games......

 

78 yds a game. is that really enough to overcome his regular season numbers? REALLLYYY? elite playoff production is larry fitzgerald going off for 900+ yds and 10td in only 9 friggin games! 78 yds a game and 5 td in 18 playoff appearances isn't overcoming 5000 regular season yds in 9 season for Edelman...… get real folks!

[Rico]

He’s not in now, but I can see him possibly making it with a couple more big post-seasons.

[Gugny]

15 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

very similar to gale sayers production. 4 years of elite production and gone too soon. what are your thoughts on him? 

 

I totally understand an argument against davis but you team up that 4 year run with MASSIVE playoff numbers and I have no real issue with is induction. 1100 yds and 12 td in 8 playoff games? my lord.

 

That's a nice and valid comparison (to Sayers).  I think Sayers was better.  He played 14 game seasons and averaged more per carry than TD.

 

I loved TD when he was playing.  I just think a HOF career for any player should  be more than 4 seasons.  I'm too young to remember Sayers, but from what I've heard about him - and looking at his stats - he seemed to have been more dominant in his short tenure (about 5 seasons (4 full, one 9 game season)).

 

And TD's playoff stats were pretty insane.

 

I still think he's marginal, but I definitely feel better about him making it in.

[GoBills808]

LOL 

 

PEDelman? Laughable.

[Mark92]

48 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

here's some perspective.... people are ranting and raving about Edelman and his combined numbers through 18 freaking playoff games......

 

78 yds a game. is that really enough to overcome his regular season numbers? REALLLYYY? elite playoff production is larry fitzgerald going off for 900+ yds and 10td in only 9 friggin games! 78 yds a game and 5 td in 18 playoff appearances isn't overcoming 5000 regular season yds in 9 season for Edelman...… get real folks!

Edelman is the best postseason slot receiver I believe the NFL has ever seen.  He is going to make a very interesting case for the hall.  One I believe he will win.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Julian Edelman Actually Isn’t Dropping More Passes For Patriots This Season

 

Here’s Edelman’s drop rate throughout his career. Note: Edelman sparingly was used as a receiver from 2009 to 2012.

2018: 10.4 percent drop rate on catchable passes, 8.1 percent overall drop rate
2017: torn ACL
2016: 10.9 percent drop rate on catchable passes, 8.2 percent overall drop rate
2015: 10.3 percent drop rate on catchable passes, 8.2 percent overall drop rate
2014: 10.7 percent drop rate on catchable passes, 8.9 percent overall drop rate
2013: 11.0 percent drop rate on catchable passes, 8.9 percent overall drop rate
2012: 8.7 percent drop rate on catchable passes, 6.5 percent overall drop rate
2011: 0 percent drop rate on catchable passes, 0 percent overall drop rate
2010: 36.4 percent drop rate on catchable passes, 28.6 percent overall drop rate
2009: 7.5 percent drop rate on catchable passes, 6 percent overall drop rate

Edelman's always dropped a lot of passes.

Edited February 6, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[dave mcbride]

48 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

That's a nice and valid comparison (to Sayers).  I think Sayers was better.  He played 14 game seasons and averaged more per carry than TD.

 

I loved TD when he was playing.  I just think a HOF career for any player should  be more than 4 seasons.  I'm too young to remember Sayers, but from what I've heard about him - and looking at his stats - he seemed to have been more dominant in his short tenure (about 5 seasons (4 full, one 9 game season)).

 

And TD's playoff stats were pretty insane.

 

I still think he's marginal, but I definitely feel better about him making it in.

Re Sayers, check out the kick return stats and the yards-per-reception stats in his early seasons. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SayeGa00.htm

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Terrell Davis doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame and neither does Edelman.

TD had a stretch where he was a borderline top 5 rb of all time.  I do get that it was a short career but he was a dominant, game changer.  That’s what a HOF should be in my mind.  Not this generation’s Wayne Chrebet playing with the best qb ever.