Greg Rosenthal QB Index

[MJS]

Josh Allen is not the type of QB that will win over analysts or stats nerds. But once he starts winning games, and he will, they'll come around.

 

Allen, to me, is like a more mature, slightly less athletic Cam Newton. However, I think Allen can become more accurate than Cam.

 

But I don't think Allen is ever going to have incredibly efficient passing stats, mainly because he is always looking to push the ball down the field and scorning the easy completions. Maybe that will change, but I don't care if it does. He's a gamer and competitor.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Josh Allen is not the type of QB that will win over analysts or stats nerds. But once he starts winning games, and he will, they'll come around.

 

Allen, to me, is like a more mature, slightly less athletic Cam Newton. However, I think Allen can become more accurate than Cam.

 

But I don't think Allen is ever going to have incredibly efficient passing stats, mainly because he is always looking to push the ball down the field and scorning the easy completions. Maybe that will change, but I don't care if it does. He's a gamer and competitor.

Cam Newton had 50 tds in a season.  He is little underrated on this board.

[BananaB]

? ? ? Lamar Jackson rated higher then Allen. 

[LSHMEAB]

6 minutes ago, BananaB said:

? ? ? Lamar Jackson rated higher then Allen. 

Jackson has been a more efficient passer but Allen has a higher QBR because he's been a more effective runner. I'd say Allen has a much higher ceiling, but these rankings are reflective of past performance and not projection.

 

A 6-1 record for a team that started 4-5 is naturally going to get Jackson some clout in these subjective rankings. 

[BananaB]

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Jackson has been a more efficient passer but Allen has a higher QBR because he's been a more effective runner. I'd say Allen has a much higher ceiling, but these rankings are reflective of past performance and not projection.

 

A 6-1 record for a team that started 4-5 is naturally going to get Jackson some clout in these subjective rankings. 

 

Tim Tebow had a winning record too when the the Broncos changed their offense because they knew he was ***** passer.... Allen is playing QB and making plays with his legs, Jackson at this point is just a glorified RB.

[thenorthremembers]

8 minutes ago, BananaB said:

 

Tim Tebow had a winning record too when the the Broncos changed their offense because they knew he was ***** passer.... Allen is playing QB and making plays with his legs, Jackson at this point is just a glorified RB.

100% Correct.   The Ravens are running an offense very similar to what Kentucky did this year, should tell you a lot about Lamar.

 

Run, Run, Run, play fake the run throw to the Tight End for a small gain and hope he takes it up field.

[LSHMEAB]

5 minutes ago, BananaB said:

 

Tim Tebow had a winning record too when the the Broncos changed their offense because they knew he was ***** passer.... Allen is playing QB and making plays with his legs, Jackson at this point is just a glorified RB.

Again; these rankings are based on production, not projection. It was clear as day that Tebowmania wouldn't last, but it would have been appropriate to place him ahead of guys with more upside following his 2011 season. This list was not about who you'd rather have at QB in the future. At THIS point, Jackson has been a more efficient passer and Allen has been a more effective runner. Much can change in the future.

[JoPar_v2]

All current and former PFT guys (including Rosenthal) are terrible.  From what I can see this is just a completely arbitrary, subjective ranking? No methodology or analysis behind it at all? Yeah don’t waste your time.

 

PFT is stocked with nothing but Patriot or Jets fans.

[H2o]

Dang, I didn't know Greg was still mad at Josh for calling him sir and not ma'am. 

[dakrider]

The Bills, and Allen, aren't going to be on anyone's radar next year.  This should help them quite a  bit for at least the first half of the season.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

Not that anything the writer said about Allen is totally false...BUT if you look at Rosen's blurb below Allen its clear the writer of that article is biased against Allen.  If think a lot of these subjective rankings will always reflect the bias of the writer (i.e. all the folks who hated Allen coming out will always have him ranked low based on this or that).  Its not to say that Allen is NOT the 32nd ranked QB based on some metrics...but rather it seems that some in the media/twitterverse really just want to prove they were "right" about this guy or that guy.

 

At the end of the day, I honestly would take Allen over all current QBs except maybe 6 or 7 for the future (Mahomes, Luck, Watson, Mayfield, etc.).   If I needed a QB for one post-season run, that would be a different story (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, etc.) but for long-term future, I feel good about Allen as the "32nd ranked QB" with supposed "scatter-shot accuracy" (from that term alone I assume the writer of the article never even watched an entire Allen game this season!).

 

Edit:  I just googled "Gregg Rosenthal Josh Allen"...the dude hates Allen lol.  Not surprised by his unbiased rankings.

 

Yes, Rosenthal is the one who said the Bills were "first round losers" after they passed up Rosen to draft Allen.

 

 

[JESSEFEFFER]

5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yep. Very similar QB's. Get Allen some guys with speed/large catch radius and we could see a huge leap next year. Bears added Gabriel and Robinson and drafted Anthony Miller. We've also got to address the line but have plenty of resources to do it.

 

Not Bills related, but how the hell did Nick Mullens rush for -16 yards this season? This isn't college where sacks are rushing yards. That's just an odd thing.

Maybe a shotgun snap over his head that he managed to retreat to cover?

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Maybe a shotgun snap over his head that he managed to retreat to cover?

I actually looked it up and he had 5 games with negative yardage, so it wasn't one play like that. I think that would still be a sack or just a fumble recovery. He must have run out of bounds behind the LOS a bunch. Just found it odd. Definitely not a runner that Mullens fella.

Edited January 4, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Veneno]

6 hours ago, billspro said:

These analysts are making fools of themselves because they won’t admit they are wrong. I was not a fan of Allen predraft, but he played very well in the senior bowl and that made me question my e v a l. If they are not questioning their e v a l by now they will never get rid of their bias. Allen played better than Rosen and equal to  Darnold as a rookie. 

 

Jackson is a different case. I think he will be good as long as his athletic ability is around. He could be RG3 or Kap, or he could be Vick. That is hard to predict.

 

 

LOL.  Now Allen was equal to Darnold and better than Rosen.  If you are basing your opinion as a RB I will agree with you but if you are talking in term of passer QB everybody not a homer will laugh at you, in your face.  Had you seen Darnold plays?  His pocket awareness and progression are above rookie level.  JA do not have a good pocket awareness, at the moment can't read defense well that is why he run first rather than going thru his progression.  At the beginning of the season, I expected his completion to be hovering around 50%.  JA is a raw talent and need to get it together next year otherwise he will be audition for RB, WR or TE pretty soon.  

[billspro]

28 minutes ago, Veneno said:

 

LOL.  Now Allen was equal to Darnold and better than Rosen.  If you are basing your opinion as a RB I will agree with you but if you are talking in term of passer QB everybody not a homer will laugh at you, in your face.  Had you seen Darnold plays?  His pocket awareness and progression are above rookie level.  JA do not have a good pocket awareness, at the moment can't read defense well that is why he run first rather than going thru his progression.  At the beginning of the season, I expected his completion to be hovering around 50%.  JA is a raw talent and need to get it together next year otherwise he will be audition for RB, WR or TE pretty soon.  

 

I think you are completely wrong. Allen showed the ability to stand in the pocket this year and read defences. There are numerous examples out there, along with probably the best throw in the NFL this season against the Jags. That was not a knock on Darnold, as he showed some ability this year as well. Your comment makes me think you didn’t actually watch all of the Bills games. I can find lot of people that would agree with my take, including Carson Palmer.

Edited January 5, 2019 by billspro

[Albany,n.y.]

9 hours ago, hemma said:

Russ Lande thought Ryan Nassib was the #1 player going into the 2013 Draft.

 

Once these guys get something stuck in their head, it'll stay there for awhile.  

 

The Giants ruined him by not playing him.  Just think if he'd been allowed to play instead of letting his arm atrophy.  He could have been a contender.  ?

 

[hemma]

31 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The Giants ruined him by not playing him.  Just think if he'd been allowed to play instead of letting his arm atrophy.  He could have been a contender.  ?

 

 

Not sure, but I recall he was having a pretty good camp a couple of years ago but tore up his elbow and went on ‘permanent-ir’.

I think he’s out of football ... but not sure.

[NoSaint]

10 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said:

1000% there are teams higher on this guys list that would do a straight QB trade for Allen. 

 

If I were creating a ranking list of Sports Analysts I rank Greg Rosenthal somewhere on the tail end of the list between Sully and the drunk bozo in the Patriots bar.

 

But that’s not the metric he used for his ranking. 

 

Thats the paramount thing in any of these lists. The first thing you have to read is what the basis for any ranking is. Best qb today? For 2019? To start a franchise with tomorrow in a madden style draft? Last year? Career to date? As a pocket passer? Do we like mobility?

 

The list will swing drastically between those options. 

 

If looking for the best passers of 2018- Allen is going to be pretty low. 

[Albany,n.y.]

18 minutes ago, hemma said:

 

Not sure, but I recall he was having a pretty good camp a couple of years ago but tore up his elbow and went on ‘permanent-ir’.

I think he’s out of football ... but not sure.

Marrone signed him 2 1/2 weeks in Jacksonville last year after he was a preseason cut by the Saints & then he was sent on his way out of the NFL in October 2017. 

 

The original reply was my way of saying that these clowns, like Clayton & others who all said that these rookies shouldn't play this year were pretty much proven wrong.  Bruce Arians, who knows more than all these "experts" combined was on WGR a couple of weeks ago and said a QB learns more through playing experience.   

 

The reason Baker Mayfield disses Hue Jackson every chance he gets and glares at him as he passes him on the sidelines is because Mayfield came in, worked his butt off in camp and Hue Jackson gave him no shot of opening the season as the starter.  If Tyrod hadn't had an in game injury that allowed Mayfield to come in & rally the Browns over the Jets that game Mayfield would have sat until Hue got fired.

 

The sit a rookie mentality is 20th century thinking in a 21st century league.  Now the proponents will point to Mahomes, but whose to say that he's any better now than he'd be if he had played last year.  All I know is that I believe Josh Allen got more out of the games he played than sitting on the bench all year, plus his teammates and coaches developed a trust in him that would not have been attained by a year on the bench.  Instead of heading into his next season as a question mark, Allen enters his sophomore year as the clear #1 QB on the team.  

[Albany,n.y.]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

But that’s not the metric he used for his ranking. 

 

Thats the paramount thing in any of these lists. The first thing you have to read is what the basis for any ranking is. Best qb today? For 2019? To start a franchise with tomorrow in a madden style draft? Last year? Career to date? As a pocket passer? Do we like mobility?

 

The list will swing drastically between those options. 

 

If looking for the best passers of 2018- Allen is going to be pretty low. 

That's true for media members who look at stats & never watch the games.  It would be as irresponsible as one of us declaring Josh Rosen a bust without seeing any of his games.  I feel I'm totally unqualified to form an opinion of Rosen because I don't watch the games he plays in.  I also feel I have an informed opinion of Allen because I've seen every down he's played with the exception of the 1st series in Houston where I had to switch places to watch the game when the place I normally go didn't show the Bills that week.  

 

I seriously doubt Rosenthal has seen enough to form an accurate opinion on Allen.  To me it looks like he looked at some stats & mailed it in, while a true professional would have watched every game played this year.  I know that's a lot of work, but really-that's the guy's friggin' job.   If I was paid to write about the NFL, I'd make sure I reviewed everything before I went to the keyboard, but then I probably have a better work ethic than this hack Rosenthal.