Ittakestime Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 It seems that Kelly Skipper has survived, but it also seems like that everywhere he goes, the YPA go down and the rankings in terms of the NFL. Buffalo: 2018: 4.2 (21st) 2017: 4.1 (14th) 2016: 5.3 (1st) Jacksonville: 2017: 4.3 (9th) 2016: 4.2 (17th) 2015: 4.2 (15th) 2014: 4.5 (6th) Oakland: 2015: 3.9 (22nd) 2014: 3.7 (27th) The bold is when Kelly was with the team. There seems to be a decline with every team he takes over. This is for team rushing because that is what I found on ESPN. If anyone had just RBs, I would be interested in that too. http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Maybe you should see how many pro bowl linemen he lost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I’d put more blame for the Bills ground game at the feet of the OL coach/ run game coordinator than an RB coach. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I think it is almost impossible for fans to analyze these position coaches. We literally have no idea what role they play behind close doors. Are they just coaching technique? Do they implement the coordinators plans? Do they draw up plays of their own? It could literally be anything. 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) Tyrone Wheatley just came available he was with the Bills for a while can't remember who was the coach then but i think the Bills did pretty good with him as their RB coach ? If this guy isn't all that & a bag of chips maybe they should talk with Tyronne ... Edited January 3, 2019 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: I think it is almost impossible for fans to analyze these position coaches. We literally have no idea what role they play behind close doors. Are they just coaching technique? Do they implement the coordinators plans? Do they draw up plays of their own? It could literally be anything. I think that is fair assessment, but I also think it is tough to say that the o line is directly responsible for all of the running game. I think if you are going to fire one, you should fire both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, Ittakestime said: It seems that Kelly Skipper has survived, but it also seems like that everywhere he goes, the YPA go down and the rankings in terms of the NFL. Buffalo: 2018: 4.2 (21st) 2017: 4.1 (14th) 2016: 5.3 (1st) Jacksonville: 2017: 4.3 (9th) 2016: 4.2 (17th) 2015: 4.2 (15th) 2014: 4.5 (6th) Oakland: 2015: 3.9 (22nd) 2014: 3.7 (27th) The bold is when Kelly was with the team. There seems to be a decline with every team he takes over. This is for team rushing because that is what I found on ESPN. If anyone had just RBs, I would be interested in that too. http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt What makes you think he survived? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, BillyWhiteShows said: What makes you think he survived? I kind of feel the evaluation of the offense is over and they have moved onto special teams. I could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ittakestime said: I think that is fair assessment, but I also think it is tough to say that the o line is directly responsible for all of the running game. I think if you are going to fire one, you should fire both. This is a perfect example of how difficult it is. For all we know, the room looks like this: RB Coach: Hey, we need to do x,y,z O-Line Coach: No, we need to do 1,2,3 Reality: Team does 1,2,3 and it doesn't work (turns out there is good reason to think x,y,z would have worked) So let me ask, why are we firing the RB coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: This is a perfect example of how difficult it is. For all we know, the room looks like this: RB Coach: Hey, we need to do x,y,z O-Line Coach: No, we need to do 1,2,3 Reality: Team does 1,2,3 and it doesn't work (turns out there is good reason to think x,y,z would have worked) So let me ask, why are we firing the RB coach? Because he has worked with multiple O line coaches with multiple teams and there is a pattern of decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 34 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: I think it is almost impossible for fans to analyze these position coaches. We literally have no idea what role they play behind close doors. Are they just coaching technique? Do they implement the coordinators plans? Do they draw up plays of their own? It could literally be anything. Absolutely. We certainly can see what happened to productivity in his area, but we have no idea how he contributed to that productivity. The head coach and coordinator do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) 4.2 is a pretty good average.....GPA Edited January 3, 2019 by Binghamton Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Shady is about as instinctive as a runner can possibly be. I can't imagine that Kelly Skipper would come in and say to him, "OK, Shady, I want you to unlearn everything you thought you knew or felt about running the ball, and do it my way." I can imagine how well that would go over with Shady. (not well) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 This team needs an addition or two of tough between the tackle runners. A younger version of Ivory would be useful. McCoy's dancing and prancing running style is not going to work. At this stage of his fading career I envision him more as a spot receiving back than heavy duty back. His days as a workhorse back are over with. The less he is used the more effective he will be. This offseason has to be dedicated to rebuilding the offense and putting Allen in a position to succeed. It starts with the line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, JohnC said: This team needs an addition or two of tough between the tackle runners. A younger version of Ivory would be useful. McCoy's dancing and prancing running style is not going to work. At this stage of his fading career I envision him more as a spot receiving back than heavy duty back. His days as a workhorse back are over with. The less he is used the more effective he will be. This offseason has to be dedicated to rebuilding the offense and putting Allen in a position to succeed. It starts with the line! To a degree, I agree. I think Shady will stick around next season, but I think one of Beanes off season projects will be to find some new (and younger) blood at the RB position. Shady may have as many carries next season as he did this year, but I think that number is probably down a lot from previous years. Somebody else is going to get more. As far as getting a younger version of Chris Ivory is concerned, they may already have him in Keith Ford. Ford is a bit shorter, and almost as heavy. He's got decent quickness and good speed, but he is a power runner all the way. He was, I think, a five star recruit coming out of high school based on both measurables and production. His college career got derailed because of injury, and he had an issue with fumbles, but Brian Daboll has found him to be an extremely hard worker, and in late season games where he had quite a few carries, the fumbling didn't seem to be an issue. I'm not sure that the Bills will target a pile driving type RB. I don't want them to necessarily draft a 170 lb scatback, but there are some good, well rounded backs Buffalo can pick up after the first round. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Man everyone is calling for heads on all our offensive coaches. I have to believe this would start with the Run game coordinator and if the HC sees problems in other parts of the run game the RB coach will go next. I do think if McCoy is here next year though the RB coach is more like a QB coach for Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning. The line just took way too much of a step back under Castillo that it needs to be fixed before you can judge anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 32 minutes ago, Ittakestime said: Because he has worked with multiple O line coaches with multiple teams and there is a pattern of decline. That isn't responsive at all to what I just said. A vague patter of decline doesn't change that so much happens behind closed doors that we don't see. I also just realized that Kelly Skipper was the RB coach for Oakland for seven years. You only put two years. That doesn't do your credibility any favors. Stats from those years greatly changes the analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Smith Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 59 minutes ago, T master said: Tyrone Wheatley just came available he was with the Bills for a while can't remember who was the coach then but i think the Bills did pretty good with him as their RB coach ? If this guy isn't all that & a bag of chips maybe they should talk with Tyronne ... The Coach was Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 hour ago, matter2003 said: Maybe you should see how many pro bowl linemen he lost Sometimes the onion must be peeled back for root cause analysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) When Greg Roman was here - and I acknowledge the guy had his flaws - it was fun to watch our running attack. Not only did Roman employ effective run concepts but the offensive linemen always seemed to be in the right place at the right time doing the right thing. We weren't overpowering people but the combination of play-design and play-execution was awesome. Our run game this year wasn't as well schemed as back then but I can't say the plays were terribly designed. We ran the same plays other NFL teams ran - but with less success. We just didn't execute. Granted good linemen execute better than bad linemen - they have quicker feet, better balance and so on. But often times we just didn't get a hat on the tackler. Both Beane and McD said the offensive line was 'out of sync' and that's a fair assessment I think. That falls on the offensive line coach (Castillo) and run game coordinator (Castillo again). It's pretty obvious why Castillo had to go. I'm not sure how much the lack of production can be blamed on the RB coach. Did the RBs run to the wrong hole? Not know their assignments? As a fan, I didn't see any compelling evidence that our RBs weren't coached well. I saw an OL that didn't give the RBs a chance to be successful. Edited January 3, 2019 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Clyde Smith said: The Coach was Marrone. And that’s also who just fired him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltonWaddams Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 4 hours ago, T master said: Tyrone Wheatley just came available he was with the Bills for a while can't remember who was the coach then but i think the Bills did pretty good with him as their RB coach ? If this guy isn't all that & a bag of chips maybe they should talk with Tyronne ... Erykah Badu agrees.Call Tyronne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 15 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: 4.2 is a pretty good average.....GPA Thank you Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 20 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: I think it is almost impossible for fans to analyze these position coaches. We literally have no idea what role they play behind close doors. Are they just coaching technique? Do they implement the coordinators plans? Do they draw up plays of their own? It could literally be anything. Agreed - people seem to be coming around on Culley (myself included) after Allen's WGR interview. And I have to say this is very much true for the most part. Though, I will say it is easier to gauge areas of weakness when we do know what coaches are responsible for - case and point, Castillo. He was the OL coach and run game coordinator, his role when hired was to instill the blocking schemes and establish the run game - something he failed to do and even to us armchair observers, was abundantly clear was an issue. The usual marker that can be used to discern hot takes from actually calculated assessment is consistency in performance, or lack thereof. In the case of Culley and Allen, many, myself included, we're analyzing more on the week-by-week rather than the overall trend - and while I was overall up on Allen, I was very much of the thought that Culley was holding him back still. The context with Allen was a young, raw, undeveloped rookie, and his performance this year is what one should expect from such a prospect. The difference with Castillo and the OL is that it started with veteran/experienced players. And while it was short two pro bowl starters, was still full of guys who have seen the league and have at one point established themselves as competent. The issue became they failed to even meet those standards and even the most casual observer could see the consistent issues week in and week out, so much so that it became patterned. The overall play improved from the beginning of the season as new guys filled in the ranks, but the line never progressed to the caliber needed to win. That ultimately starts and stops with the OL coach/run game coordinator - while the OC typically installs a scheme and playbook, the OL coach is heavily relied upon, if not responsible (typically), for establishing the blocking/protection schemes, instituting blocking technique, and even for coordinating run plays as they are entirely predicated on the OL matching rushing defenders at appropriate levels and timing. None of this happen throughout the season and it was pretty easy to see where these issues came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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