sullim4 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Nervous Guy said: I can probably come up with a mile long list of non-minority coaches given the same treatment. Bingo. I think the expectations were higher in Arizona after drafting Rosen. The Bidwell family also doesn't have a sterling reputation as being great NFL owners, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, SoTier said: Why does he "need to STFU"? IMO, you should follow your own advice. As a former NFL player and now as a media professional who works in the media in close contact with current NFL players and other pro football professionals, Burleson is in a much better position to have a valid opinion on the role of race in how coaches/execs are evaluated/hired/fired than some bigoted message board nazi who thinks refusing to discuss race matters will make them disappear. Except that its over blown and disingenuous. Interesting that Im a Nazi though. And ironically you make it about race. I guess I must be a racist homophob huh. I will have to let my boyfriend know this he is black. Oh and by the way he agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 These conversations are getting so tiresome. Ironic considering the I Have a Dream speech was about character over skin color and everything goes back to skin color. Is saying we need less white coaches any less racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullim4 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 29 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Sean McDermott is basically Todd Bowles in a city with low self esteem. It's funny you mention this. Bowles is the only head coach I've ever seen that says almost nothing on the sidelines. Every time the camera is on him, he is just standing there, emotionless, saying nothing. Say what you want about McDermott, I think the clapping thing is stupid, but at least the guy shows some emotion on the sidelines. Bowles looks like he's watching an opera. Maybe it's similar to Ralph's reasoning about Wade and his headset... but Bowles behavior makes him look disengaged on game days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Malarkey actually did deserve a second chance. He had one of only two winning seasons in Buffalo this century. Chip Kelly had success in Philly. He was 26-21 there before going to SF. Mora also had a winning record in Atlanta. I’m not sure that any of those three, at the time they went to their second team, should have been considered “failed retreads”. Malarkey went 9-7 then 5-11, that's why he was fired. He then had two 2 win seasons with the Jags and was actually rehired in between those. Chip Kelly started well in Philly and then flatlined. I'm not sure what the issue with Mora was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: If that’s the case why are there so many former pro players (of every color) coaching in the league? I mean, if MOST good ones started out exclusively coaching? I see several white players, like Vrabel and Reich for instance, getting hired and seeing success. There’s some reality for you. Here are the best HC's in the NFL right now in career W-L. McVay - Zero years NFL experience, coaching out of college Nagy - Zero years NFL experience, coaching out of college Andy Reid - Zero years NFL experience, coaching out of college Mike Tomlin - Zero years NFL experience, coaching out of college Lynn - 6 years of NFL experience (as a backup journeyman) Carroll - Zero years NFL experience, coaching out of college Reich - 13 years of NFL experience (as a backup journeyman) Payton - Strike player for 3 games in the NFL, coached the next year See a trend? 16 minutes ago, blzrul said: Get thee to a dictionary and look up the conditional word "IF" which is the word I used. IF / THEN. You don't program, do you? I think there are a number of coaches that played football. Maybe not all NFL. You can look that up since it seems important to you that all those black guys playing can't be coaches. If you want to wear ballet shoes that's fine with me. If you want to keep a closed mind, it only hurts you. Not me. English language lesson time. 23 minutes ago, blzrul said: The NFL is about 70% black. If playing football makes one a good coach, then one could reasonably expect over time that the majority of NFL coaches would rise from those ranks. Thus there would be a great many more black coaches than there are today. The "those ranks" remark refers to the NFL in the previous sentence. Not "football." I reject your assertion now that you changed it to football. I reject your new assertion that 70% of kids who play football at any age are black. I reject that NFL experience is associated with success as an NFL coach as proven by the best coaches in NFL history. Sorry. Edited January 1, 2019 by BringBackOrton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, blzrul said: The NFL is about 70% black. If playing football makes one a good coach, then one could reasonably expect over time that the majority of NFL coaches would rise from those ranks. Thus there would be a great many more black coaches than there are today. Now - should an incompetent coach be retained to maintain racial parity? Hell no. But the definition of incompetence should apply EQUALLY to white and black. This doesn't mean to set a standard within the NFL. Every team owner/GM is in a unique situation. And some guys, black or white, shouldn't be HC. But I'm pretty sure the bar is much higher for people of color - because that's the way it is elsewhere, not just the NFL. I don't have the answer. But dismissing this out of hand smacks of white privilege. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you presume to tell people how they should feel. Its an intimidation tactic to try and force them to hire based on race or to be scared to fire because the coach is a minority. Its sick because they do exactly what they say they are fighting against. They are very disingenuous individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Assuming people’s color based on their opinions? hm... I wonder if there’s a word for that. I believe the word is 'assuming' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Malarkey went 9-7 then 5-11, that's why he was fired. He then had two 2 win seasons with the Jags and was actually rehired in between those. Chip Kelly started well in Philly and then flatlined. I'm not sure what the issue with Mora was. Mularkey wasn’t fired. Edited January 1, 2019 by Binghamton Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, see, here's the challenging thing and I'll say it once and then STFU and ya'll can go on and run with it. Everyone has their preconceptions. Everyone tends to be most comfortable with people who fit their preconceptions, people who strike them as "someone like me". Having been in a position to interview and to make decisions about hiring people, and having seen decisions above me being made, I can say that overt discrimination "I don't think she can do the job because, woman" or "I don't think he can handle it, because, black" is very rare nowadays. What happens is that guys in hiring positions have their ideas, maybe unstated or unspoken ideas about what different people are like, maybe based on their own narrow experience. One guy, a senior VP at my place of employment at the time, once told me he was very surprised to see the results of a study that said the women on average tested higher on organizational skills and ability to multitask because his wife couldn't manage either. His perception (maybe unstated to himself) was that men are better at those skills. Just naturally and without any intent at conscious bias, he was going to carry that perception into his hiring and assignment processes. The Rooney rule, and other affirmative action strategies, exist not because minorities can't win the job on their own merit, but because in an "old boys club" atmosphere, they will NOT be "gift wrapped interviews" and given the opportunities that guys who fit the preconceptions and comfort level of people doing the hiring. I don't like them because I view it as too little, too late. And if they result in people being hired, but not being given the same support and opportunities that others get, they're misguided. But that's why they exist. The only color they care about is green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Sounds like something a black guy would say. Don't worry, I'm just being "assuming." sounds like something a ***** would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Mularkey wasn’t fired. Isnt it weird, BB...Milarky has been a head coach twice and technically was never fired from either job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Well, there are coaches who are African American who have long tenures too, just like there are white coaches with short tenures. I think Hue Jackson had more than enough time and they waited too long to fire him. Lewis in Cincy was one of the longest tenured coaches in the league before getting fired. We fired Rex Ryan after two years. So I don't really see a problem personally. I think the larger problem is that some teams fire prematurely period, regardless of race. I just don't think that 1 or 2 years given to a coach is fair or realistic in most cases. The Browns fired a coach after 1 year a few years ago. The 49ers did it. Now Arizona did it. How on Earth can you give a coach only 1 year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Yet Lewis lasted 5 years longer than should. Tomlin has had a top 3 roster for years and squandered it. The hottest name is going to be Richard from Dallas. I dont see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Here are the best HC's in the NFL right now in career W-L. McVay - Zero years NFL experience, coaching out of college Andy Reid - Zero years NFL experience, coaching out of college Mike Tomlin - Zero years NFL experience, coaching out of college Lynn - 6 years of NFL experience (as a backup journeyman) Carroll - Zero years NFL experience, coaching out of college Reich - 13 years of NFL experience (as a backup journeyman) Payton - Strike player for 3 games in the NFL, coached the next year See a trend? A trend? No I see no trend in the handful of names you cherry picked. A list of names that refutes your “point” as much as it supports it, by the way, since there are a mix of former player and non-player coaches on there. What I see is BS anecdotal evidence that proves nothing. Here, I can do it too: Doug Pederson (funny you left him out), Matt Nagy, Tony Dungy, Mike Ditka. Before you insult someone else’s comprehension of English, you should brush up on your basic logic and standards of evidence. People were in here discussing this fairly civilly and you bulldoze in and make it an insuffrable pi**ing match. It’s pathetic. Edited January 1, 2019 by JoPar_v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Others spoke about this issue as well. It’s something to think about, but please think before you respond. Or maybe there are better canidates that can do the job better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, klos63 said: sounds like something a ***** would say. Oh my.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Fair enough. The one firing that IMO raises the eyebrows is Wilks, and IMO mostly because Keim who arguably FU the player personnel and his "extreme DUI" are still there. Here's the thing for me. With the exception of Josh Rosen I've paid no attention to the Cardinals in the past year. Had no idea who Wilks was when he was hired. Didn't see the Cardinals play all year. When he got fired my assumption was "effed up organization". Had no idea the color of his skin until reading through parts of this thread. Is there any reason to think that race was a factor in his firing apart from his skin color? Why not go to Keim is clueless first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullim4 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 29 minutes ago, blzrul said: The NFL is about 70% black. If playing football makes one a good coach, then one could reasonably expect over time that the majority of NFL coaches would rise from those ranks. Thus there would be a great many more black coaches than there are today. Taking the racial question out of it, that first assertion around playing football making you a good coach is interesting to explore. If there's really something to CTE and cognitive capability, then one could easily argue that long, sustained playing careers make you a terrible candidate to be a head coach. A ton of backup journeyman quarterbacks (Garrett, Reich, Pederson), and lots of careers that topped out in college before they could take a licking (Belichick, Tomlin, McVay). Vrabel is the only person I can think of that had a somewhat lengthy, successful career as a starter in the NFL and is currently a head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just wondering if anyone going off on Burleson even watched his video. I hear nothing controversial at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts