Bills QB Josh Allen is changing skeptical minds. ---- Brady Quinn apparently prefers potential over results

[thebandit27]

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm a believer in JA. But that is not to say that I'm confident that he is going to be a good franchise qb. I just don't know for sure whether he will ever be able to proficiently make the reads and go through progressions? Will he be able to make throws with the appropriate touch? The trap with judging a qb with such eye popping tools is that you don't know if the physical tools will be harnessed with the mental side of the position, the most important part of playing the position. 

 

What Barkley demonstrated in the Jet game is that if you know how to play the position and have good accuracy then for the short term even a qb with limited throwing talents can get by. With physical limitations you are not going to be a long term solution but you can see the difference between a more refined qb from a raw qb. 

 

Of course that's true 

 

I stand exactly where I did the day I finished my work-up on Allen: under the impression that he has a legitimate shot to become a franchise quarterback if he develops 

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

It's called truthful hyperbole, but I think you already knew that.

Yeah, I’m a big fan of hyperbole as a literary tool. But using “truthful” as a modifier is a total crock and I think you already know that.

 

But just so everyone is clear, you really have seen Allen stand in the pocket and deliver, right?

 

 

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Of course that's true 

 

I stand exactly where I did the day I finished my work-up on Allen: under the impression that he has a legitimate shot to become a franchise quarterback if he develops 

The trajectory is pointing in the right direction as his improved development has been visible since his return from injury. I think much of that has to do with Daboll and the infusion of speed into the lineup. 

 

But it is clear that he doesn’t trust his OLine.

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Yeah, I’m a big fan of hyperbole as a literary tool. But using “truthful” as a modifier is a total crock and I think you already know that.

 

But just so everyone is clear, you really have seen Allen stand in the pocket and deliver, right?

 

 

Yes. I have seen Allen stand in the pocket and deliver accurate throws. I would like to see more of it as opposed to bailing even when there's no pressure.

 

As I clearly stated before, I believe a better offensive line is needed to determine whether or not he's gonna improve on recognition. It would be unfair to judge him based on the porous line, but there are no guarantees. As has been stated, he's never been a high percentage guy. I feel like Hapless coined the "bunnies" phrase as it pertains to JA. Gotta hit the bunnies. I still think of that a college hoops phrase, but it works here as well.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Of course that's true 

 

I stand exactly where I did the day I finished my work-up on Allen: under the impression that he has a legitimate shot to become a franchise quarterback if he develops 

If this organization doesn't act with dispatch this offseason to upgrade the OL and acquire some younger, tough inside the tackle runners they will be making a big mistake. The Bills made a major investment to acquire this physically strapping qb. The major theme of our offseason is to put him in a position to succeed. 

 

I agree with K-9's assessment that it is obvious that he is steadily improving with his pocket presence as he plays more. His playing time this season should better equip him for next season. But he has a long road to go before he can become a consistent qb. 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The opposite is also true.  Believe it or not, it’s not the entire rest of the offense’s fault every time Allen makes a bad play.

 

this, like every qb debate, becomes a stupid political debate.  There are the “homers” who blame everyone else, ignore his faults, and make excuses.  He has 2 tds in a game, people say he will be a top 10 qb.  Then there are the “haters” who ignore how hard it is to be a rookie QBs, the awful offense (which the guys who picked Allen created), and say he will be a bust.

 

i try to remain in the middle.  I’m not a fan of upside, low production college qbs.  Especially in the top 10 of a draft.  I can clearly see the potential but I worry that we will keep talking about his upside while he struggles to consistently reach it.  But let’s hope that the guys which trade for Kelvin Benjamin and Jordan Matthews gets him real receivers so we can stop excuse making and just evaluate him. 

Agreed.  I keep saying Allen has a ways to go.  Has a lot to learn.  But he has brought some excitement to WNY

[PlayoffsPlease]

Do people think if McDermott had committed to Allen at the beginning of training camp and not wasted the time he did with McCarron and Peterman, that Allen might be further along now? 

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Do people think if McDermott had committed to Allen at the beginning of training camp and not wasted the time he did with McCarron and Peterman, that Allen might be further along now? 

IMO, yes. 

[Bing Bong]

3 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Do people think if McDermott had committed to Allen at the beginning of training camp and not wasted the time he did with McCarron and Peterman, that Allen might be further along now? 

Absolutely. I thought he should have started week 1. I also thought we should have rolled out with better camp competition to begin with so Allen had a bit more competition to earn his job. Him backed up a horrible Quarterback he was better than was like the worst developmental lesson possible IMO.

 

I guess none of it really mattered. The QB mess to start the season. The bad supporting caste. All that with Allen still balling out early in his career has me all the more impressed with him. He had all the excuses not to be impressive his rookie year and he's been more than impressive.

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Do people think if McDermott had committed to Allen at the beginning of training camp and not wasted the time he did with McCarron and Peterman, that Allen might be further along now? 

The bigger mistake that was made was not bringing in a veteran qb right from the start to tutor and guide him. I'm glad that he got playing time this year. It will certainly serve him well in his development. But if you recall when he first played he was somewhat overwhelmed. To a certain extent he getting hurt allowed him more time to sit back and observe and continue to learn so that when he got back in action he was better prepared to play. 

[CincyBillsFan]

26 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Do people think if McDermott had committed to Allen at the beginning of training camp and not wasted the time he did with McCarron and Peterman, that Allen might be further along now? 

 

Yes and it makes Allen's current progress all the more remarkable. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Do people think if McDermott had committed to Allen at the beginning of training camp and not wasted the time he did with McCarron and Peterman, that Allen might be further along now? 

hard to say really.   

 

Reps are reps.  Even if it's with the 3's.   Could he have gotten more chemistry with the starters?  Maybe.  Maybe his time with the 3's helped him build chemistry with the younger players and that might be a benefit down the road. 

 

As to starting week 1.  For a game and a half the team was getting pummeled until McD "took over" some of the defenses play calling.  How might that have effected anything? 

Josh was making mistakes early on that have diminished bit by bit.   

 

We'll never know.  

Week 15 fantasy streamers: Trust Josh Allen?

 

http://www.nfl.com/fantasyfootball/story/0ap3000000998792/article/week-15-fantasy-streamers-trust-josh-allen

 

Ceiling: Josh Allen vs. Detroit Lions

It's been ugly to watch through the air (44-of-88, 597 yards, 3:4 TD-to-INT ratio, 64.4 passer rating), but Allen's legs have carried him to a string of remarkable fantasy finishes over the last three weeks. With 13/99/1, 9/135, and 9/101/1 rushing lines, Allen has recorded QB4, QB2, and QB15 fantasy performances in this three-game span. Allen does not have a floor in the passing game -- which takes him out of starting consideration in shallow 10-team leagues -- but he currently leads all qualifying players in yards per carry (7.4). On rushing prowess alone, Allen is a top-15 QB play in Week 15.

 

Floor and Ceiling: Bills D/ST vs. Detroit Lions

Over the last month without Golden Tate (traded) and Marvin Jones (knee), Matthew Stafford has thrown just two passing scores and averaged an abysmal 6.1 YPA. In this span, Detroit is ninth-from-last in yards per drive and fifth-from-last in drives ending a score. The banged-up, low-ceiling Lions are in a brutal road spot in Week 15 against a Bills' secondary that is tied with the Bears for the second-lowest YPA allowed (6.4). Only the Texans, Ravens, Bears, and Jaguars have a better outlook this week than the Bills' D/ST.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/12/11/18134293/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-quarterback-rushing-record-nfl

 

A few snippets 

 

The Bills’ receivers, currently led by Zay Jones, Robert Foster, and Isaiah McKenzie, have consistently struggled to get open in 2018. That, coupled with Allen’s rookie indecision, has given the first-year quarterback an average of 3.3 seconds before unleashing the ball downfield — by far the longest time to throw in the league. That extra time allows Buffalo’s targets to drag defenders downfield, opening the holes through which Allen has burst to claim his spot atop 2018’s quarterback rushing leaders.

 

 

What’s this meant for the Bills?

Allen is roughly the same size as Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. And while the Pittsburgh passer has used his size, strength, and Weeble Wobble-esque balance has been paramount to his ability to extend plays, his running has always been a function to free up his aerial attack. With Allen, it’s different; his ability to run has been the balm meant to soothe the scars left by his inaccurate passing downfield.

[Boca BIlls]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I don't think it's his inaccurate passing as much as it is he's more comfortable running the ball than pulling the trigger on certain passes. The passing games extremely fast for him right now, he's making up for it with his athleticism.

I think it's more he trusts his legs more then the WRs hands.

[teef]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I don't buy that.

 

I think he knows he can make a certain play with his legs rather than rely on his arm to make the play.

i think he's just not seeing the plays yet, and decides to just go for the production.  i don't mind the running, but i think and hope that as the game slows down for him, so does the taking off.  it's just hard to argue against those large chunks of yards he allen picks up.

[Doc]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

This is probably too early to say but I'll say it anyway, I don't think Allen is ever going to be a great passer. He won't ever be a high completion % QB. But if the game continues to slow down for him and works at it he will be sufficient enough and along with his athleticism he will be more than fine. 

 

He won't be a high completion % QB...if his receivers keep dropping his passes. 

[teef]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

This is probably too early to say but I'll say it anyway, I don't think Allen is ever going to be a great passer. He won't ever be a high completion % QB. But if the game continues to slow down for him and works at it he will be sufficient enough and along with his athleticism he will be more than fine. 

i think that's very fair to say.  not that he'll be a bad passer, but he'll probably never be an elite one, and that's ok.  he can be productive with his arms and legs enough to get the job done.  as far as i know, guys like farve were never considered elite passers, but his ability to help carry a team was.  i think that's what we could have in allen.  

[cle23]

19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

This is probably too early to say but I'll say it anyway, I don't think Allen is ever going to be a great passer. He won't ever be a high completion % QB. But if the game continues to slow down for him and works at it he will be sufficient enough and along with his athleticism he will be more than fine. 

 

The big issue is if he gets too comfortable running, and runs even when plays aren't there, or runs for 10 when there is a 30 yard pass there for the taking. 

 

I'm not saying that will happen. And his running has been crazy good. It's just a result of seeing Browns QBs in the past getting "used" to scrambling from pressure to the point that they scramble, pressure or not. 

 

Allen can develop as a passer,  but isn't very polished yet.

[thebandit27]

11 hours ago, JohnC said:

If this organization doesn't act with dispatch this offseason to upgrade the OL and acquire some younger, tough inside the tackle runners they will be making a big mistake. The Bills made a major investment to acquire this physically strapping qb. The major theme of our offseason is to put him in a position to succeed. 

 

I agree with K-9's assessment that it is obvious that he is steadily improving with his pocket presence as he plays more. His playing time this season should better equip him for next season. But he has a long road to go before he can become a consistent qb. 

 

Agreed on all accounts.  As much as I'd like to see the team take the next step on defense by adding a premium pass rusher, CB2, and depth at LB, I'd be just fine if they spent the vast majority of their cap room and their premium draft picks on offense.

[Ronin]

18 hours ago, cashdude said:

I wonder if it is because you are a condescending douche bag?

 

LOL 

 

Gee, no violation of the ToS there.   

 

I get it cashdude, you among them apparently, seem to have a difficult time when presented with facts.  Unfortunately this country turns on mob-mentality opinions, that we often call democracy, the fact be damned.  

 

Yeah, yeah, I get it.  Condescending is relative.  Again, as with some of the others, I'm sorry, truly, that you have difficulty grappling with information that may conflict with opinions that you harbor that are contrary.  

 

Otherwise, really, facts are facts irrespective of how they're presented and have no emotions associated with them.  

 

I'm getting ready to lay out a few others, numbers only for the most part, just watch the reactions.  It's truly comical.  

[C.Biscuit97]

11 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Agreed.  I keep saying Allen has a ways to go.  Has a lot to learn.  But he has brought some excitement to WNY

I agree.  He is definitely not boring.  For the years while the Bills sucked, I almost was fine with them losing as long as they were fun to watch.  The last few games have been far from boring.

 

but it will be the boring, consistent play that will make separate him if he is to become a true franchise guy.