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John from Riverside

I realize that ppl don’t want to hear this but the plan looks like....

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Wait a second... there's a plan???

 

Was it formulated by Laurel and Hardy?

Edited by RobbRiddick

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Just now, RobbRiddick said:

Wait a second... there's a plan???

 

 

 

I think they had a plan, but the execution has been terrible. 

 

The biggest problems so far, have been the players they've added at QB, the players they've added at WR, and their lack of interest in adding quality offensive linemen. 

 

Their ability to evaluate offensive personnel has been a disaster so far. 

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14 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

You're going to be waiting a long time for that fix to happen. 
There will always be roster holes. The key is to have talented players at critical positions. 

To me, you need a top tier QB, an elite playmaker at WR/RB, a second "really good" playmaker WR/RB/TE, and a slightly above average line.

You can win with that. 

 

 

The only way they can do it in one off season is to somehow attract top tier FA talent here and then make some REALLY great draft picks, like they've done with the defensive side of the ball. Plus they need to trade down in the first to secure more picks, if anyone is willing to partner with them of course. Let's see:

 

FA WR

1st round WR

2 FA linemen

2nd round lineman

(if they find a trade partner) 2nd round WR

3rd round TE

4th round RB

 

I have no idea which players are FAs this season or how deep the draft is at different positions, but if they draft well and spend some money they could vastly improve this thing. The key for me is linemen. Getting a running game going and giving Allen more time to throw deep/gain confidence would be a huge upgrade. It would also help the defense massively as they'd be getting more than 10 seconds rest between drives.

 

Of course the problem with that many rookies is giving them time to develop. I'd be looking for a really strong second half of next year. If that happens and they draft well the following season they could make a push for at least the divisional round the next season. Usually I'd complain that the defense would regress in that time, but I like the way they've built the D and trust them to continue adding talent in lower rounds of the draft and with cheaper FAs that other people miss.

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9 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

 

The only way they can do it in one off season is to somehow attract top tier FA talent here and then make some REALLY great draft picks, like they've done with the defensive side of the ball. Plus they need to trade down in the first to secure more picks, if anyone is willing to partner with them of course. Let's see:

 

FA WR

1st round WR

2 FA linemen

2nd round lineman

(if they find a trade partner) 2nd round WR

3rd round TE

4th round RB

 

I have no idea which players are FAs this season or how deep the draft is at different positions, but if they draft well and spend some money they could vastly improve this thing. The key for me is linemen. Getting a running game going and giving Allen more time to throw deep/gain confidence would be a huge upgrade. It would also help the defense massively as they'd be getting more than 10 seconds rest between drives.

 

 

I'm not sold on trading down, there may not be appropriate value, either from the other team or leaving a talented prospect on the board. 

Either way, they have to nail some drafts. The odds of taking a 10.5 PPG offense and turning it around in a season are slim.

 

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2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Except it will.  Rams did it.  Bears did it.  Now Bills will do it.

 

Both teams took rookies they traded up for (and gave up a lot more than we did).  Both had good foundations on defense and terrible personnel on offense.  Both rookies suuuccckked their rookie year.  Both teams heavily invested the following off season in offensive talent in FA and draft, especially FA.  Both offenses and teams instantly turned around.  

 

Bills have a better D than either Rams or Bears had during their QBs rookies year.  Bills are in a very good spot to make a significant turnaround in one season if they can fill out the offensive side of the ball so Allen can take a step forward.  

 

People here are nuts right now and have lost all scope of reality.  Bills can become a REAL contender very quickly if we can put the right offensive pieces around Allen...assuming Allen develops as a result, which I think he is going to be good.

The thing is that both the Bears, Rams fired their defensive minded coaches and hired new offensive minded coaches to help develop those rookie QBs. John Fox, Jeff Fisher. Both those rookie offensive coaches hired good defensive coordinators to maintain a good defense. Vic Fangio, Wade Phillips. 

 

Chicago's defense (currently at #10) is way better then their offense right now. The Rams are #1 in yards, #3 in points on offense and top ten on defense. 

 

The point here is that this Buffalo Bills HC and offensive coaching staff are clueless and no amount of talent influx is going to turn them into the Rams offense or even allow Josh Allen to develop properly. Look how badly they screwed up this season and it didn't need to be a losing season or anywhere near this bad. Incompetence got the Bills to this point.

Edited by Nihilarian

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21 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Filling your team with overpaid free agents isn’t the way to build a winning football team.  

How do you know it will be overpaid free agents? Serious question, cuz it sounds like you're complaining about something that hasn't even happened. 

 

21 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Totally agree.

 

Lots of teams have cap space, and lots of top 5 picks in the NFL bust. 

 

If those are the things we're banking on, we're in trouble. 

What?!?! Sooo, banking on drafting and acquiring free agents is a no go?!?! Our top 5 pick will be a bust?!? I know you said lots(not all) of top 5 picks are busts, but what do you suggest? Where we are right now, using our draft picks and cap room for free agents sounds like the way to go. Unless you have some grand plan that you're keeping close to the vest, sounds like you're piling on. I really want ro hear your alternate plan. 

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4 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The thing is that both the Bears, Rams fired their defensive minded coaches and hired new offensive minded coaches to help develop those rookie QBs. John Fox, Jeff Fisher. Both those rookie offensive coaches hired good defensive coordinators to maintain a good defense. Vic Fangio, Wade Phillips. 

 

Chicago's defense (currently at #10) is way better then their offense right now. The Rams are #1 in yards, #3 in points on offense and top ten on defense. 

 

The point here is that this Buffalo Bills HC and offensive coaching staff are clueless and no amount of talent influx is going to turn them into the Rams offense or even allow Josh Allen to develop properly. Look how badly they screwed up this season and it didn't need to be a losing season or anywhere near this bad. Incompetence got the Bills to this point.

 

Wrong, you dont know that.  McD wasnt a HC before, so he has no prior body of work to prove or disprove that.  This offense is devoid of talent, so you cant know if he can lead a team with a good offense or not.  

 

We won't know what McD can do from the offensive side until sometime into next season where we can measure the development of Allen and see how this team improves on offense. 

 

This myth that a smart defensive coach cant lead a team with a good offense is absurd.  I mean just look at our division, BB is a defensive coach.  Heck, look at our own team, in the 2 years with Rex the Bills were the second highest scoring 2 year period ever in Bills history, with TYROD at QB...second only to the to first SB years.  I mean there are all kinds of examples of this.  

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1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wrong, you dont know that.  McD wasnt a HC before, so he has no prior body of work to prove or disprove that.  This offense is devoid of talent, so you cant know if he can lead a team with a good offense or not.  

 

We won't know what McD can do from the offensive side until sometime into next season where we can measure the development of Allen and see how this team improves on offense. 

 

This myth that a smart defensive coach cant lead a team with a good offense is absurd.  I mean just look at our division, BB is a defensive coach.  Heck, look at our own team, in the 2 years with Rex the Bills were the second highest scoring 2 year period ever in Bills history, with TYROD at QB...second only to the to first SB years.  I mean there are all kinds of examples of this.  

Yes, we do know how bad this HC/GM and offensive staff are because they went into this season with this mess.

 

Would you have allowed Josh Allen to start behind this mess of an offensive line? I know I wouldn't and just judging from last season I wouldn't have gone into this year thinking that Peterman would be the starter. The receiver corps is also a joke. Most Bills fans were complaining all offseason and the current FO did very little to correctly upgrade the QB, line, WR issues. 

 

Keeping McD is just prolonging the inevitable as we look at this season on offense and its really bad and it's not going to get any better. Out of 9 games Ravens, Packers, Colts, Patriots, Bears were all blowouts. So more then half and its not going to get any better from my view. So many player personnel mistakes by this regime and I've learned over the past twenty years that things usually get worse. All the penalties that are still happening each week 10 for 163 yards...are you kidding me?

 

 

The bigger point is that what made the two teams that you mentioned so successful was that they fired the defensive minded HC and replaced them with a pair of the brightest offensive minds they could find. Usually first time, first year head coaches don't fare that well in the NFL and yet Sean McVay 11-5 after a 4-12 season by Jeff Fisher. The Bears who finished last season 5-11 under John Fox have already equaled that total at 5-3 under new HC Matt Nagy an Andy Reid disciple.

 

If I'm Terry Pegula I'd be looking at the next best and brightest offensive mind to hire as HC before this coaching staff has another season to ruin that rookie QB we both like so much. The defense will be fine with Leslie Frazier as DC so the continuity of the defense should stay the same. Shame too because I happen to like McD. I just think he has no clue with the offensive side of the ball. 

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2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Yes, we do know how bad this HC/GM and offensive staff are because they went into this season with this mess.

 

Would you have allowed Josh Allen to start behind this mess of an offensive line? I know I wouldn't and just judging from last season I wouldn't have gone into this year thinking that Peterman would be the starter. The receiver corps is also a joke. Most Bills fans were complaining all offseason and the current FO did very little to correctly upgrade the QB, line, WR issues. 

 

Keeping McD is just prolonging the inevitable as we look at this season on offense and its really bad and it's not going to get any better. Out of 9 games Ravens, Packers, Colts, Patriots, Bears were all blowouts. So more then half and its not going to get any better from my view. So many player personnel mistakes by this regime and I've learned over the past twenty years that things usually get worse. All the penalties that are still happening each week 10 for 163 yards...are you kidding me?

 

 

The bigger point is that what made the two teams that you mentioned so successful was that they fired the defensive minded HC and replaced them with a pair of the brightest offensive minds they could find. Usually first time, first year head coaches don't fare that well in the NFL and yet Sean McVay 11-5 after a 4-12 season by Jeff Fisher. The Bears who finished last season 5-11 under John Fox have already equaled that total at 5-3 under new HC Matt Nagy an Andy Reid disciple.

 

If I'm Terry Pegula I'd be looking at the next best and brightest offensive mind to hire as HC before this coaching staff has another season to ruin that rookie QB we both like so much. The defense will be fine with Leslie Frazier as DC so the continuity of the defense should stay the same. Shame too because I happen to like McD. I just think he has no clue with the offensive side of the ball. 

 

Come back to reality.  Wood and Incognito retired.  You cant rebuild all units in one draft dude.  We had a ton of dead cap space as result of the process to fix the cap, something Beane said DAY 1 was the first priority and would take two years, he got it done in less time than that.  

 

Its so easy to say the things you said, but there is no reality to it.  There wasnt this pile of good OL just sitting there we ignored.  THIS YEAR is NOT what their prior moves were about.  Sorry man, its on you if you had high hopes this year.  I am normally a positive guy, but even I knew this year was likely going to be a down year because we had just too many holes to fill while also in the last year of our cap clearout.  

 

Funny how McD was beloved here last year and during Imbedded.  But because the offense sucks due to lack of talent and hurt rookie QB, now suddenly everyone wants to pile on him.  So ridiculous.  This board is so stupidly week to week.  This is a REBUILD...it does not happen in ONE draft or from one week to the next.  We won't know how good or bad they are REALLY doing at building a contender until later into next season when we can see how Allen is developing and how what fixes they did the offense are working out.  

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OP be patient. How many years shall we wait? Been waiting since let see.

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4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Come back to reality.  Wood and Incognito retired.  You cant rebuild all units in one draft dude.  We had a ton of dead cap space as result of the process to fix the cap, something Beane said DAY 1 was the first priority and would take two years, he got it done in less time than that.  

 

Its so easy to say the things you said, but there is no reality to it.  There wasnt this pile of good OL just sitting there we ignored.  THIS YEAR is NOT what their prior moves were about.  Sorry man, its on you if you had high hopes this year.  I am normally a positive guy, but even I knew this year was likely going to be a down year because we had just too many holes to fill while also in the last year of our cap clearout.  

 

Funny how McD was beloved here last year and during Imbedded.  But because the offense sucks due to lack of talent and hurt rookie QB, now suddenly everyone wants to pile on him.  So ridiculous.  This board is so stupidly week to week.  This is a REBUILD...it does not happen in ONE draft or from one week to the next.  We won't know how good or bad they are REALLY doing at building a contender until later into next season when we can see how Allen is developing and how what fixes they did the offense are working out.  

You didn't answer the questions. Would you have played Josh Allen behind that line knowing how bad it is? Would you have gone into the season with Nathaniel Peterman as the starter with so little experience? 

 

I'll also ask, Would you have allowed the team to enter the season with no veteran QB on the roster to help guide the two inexperienced QBs? Would you have hired a QB coach that had never previously been a QB coach* to help develop two inexperienced QBs? It's like the blind leading the blind on offense. 

 

McD's first offensive hire was Juan Castillo the run game coordinator/ O line coach and he should have been fired last year with Dennison.  This year McD hired an OC that has been an OC with 4 different teams for 5 seasons and each time his offenses were never better then 23rd and this year it's even worse. Ever wonder why the guy didn't retain a job as OC for long? 

 

The reality of the situation is that the line could have been upgraded as soon as they found out Eric Wood was done. This happened on freaking Jan 26th is when he announced his retirement. Which is more then enough time to find an equal replacement. Draft, free agency, trade.  The problem is this FO thought everything would be fine with Ryan Groy and it wasn't.

Richie Incognito retired in April 2018 which was more then enough time to find an equal replacement and again they didn't. This FO thought everything would be fine with Vlad Ducasse and again, it wasn't!  

This is complete incompetence on the line coach, the OC, the HC, the GM as the buck stops at the top. 

 

Like I said earlier, this season didn't have to be a wash if the FO went out and replaced the OC, LG and RG properly. Found a better veteran QB to start the season. There is always a way to find money to bring in quality talent. They should have replaced the line coach with someone that knows what they are doing. Hired a better OC with a better record along with someone that has mentored rookie QBs. Same with the QB coach. 

 

Ya know what? There is still time to fix some things as this team enters the bye week and it could determine what happens at the end of the season to this regime. Fire Daboll during the bye week or simply demote him and promote the WR coach Terry Robiskie to OC. Let him see if he can fix the run game and help the QBs make some plays, get the team scoring TDs. 

 

This year was no rebuild, as that is just an excuse some fans are throwing out there to defend this regime. This coaching staff simply has no idea what they are doing on offense and I only hope to god that these owners don't retain these morons. I don't think I can take another season of Daboll, Castillo and perhaps watching that rookie QB get ruined by a bunch of incompetent morons. 

 

On another note, Peterman has a QBR of 6.5...

Edited by Nihilarian
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On 11/4/2018 at 3:54 PM, CaptnCoke11 said:

Filling your team with overpaid free agents isn’t the way to build a winning football team.  

The LA Rams say hi.

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On 11/4/2018 at 4:51 PM, CaptnCoke11 said:

90 million and a top 5 pick isnt going to turn around this team anytime soon. 

 

That's not true. It could turn the team around very quickly.

6 minutes ago, BeefCurtns said:

The LA Rams say hi.

 

Exactly.

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On 11/4/2018 at 7:01 PM, John from Riverside said:

I don’t think it is going to take a few years but I agree with the rest

 

They need to do for josh Allen what they did for trbisky and the offense will improve drasically

I didn’t start out that way I just realized it as time went on

 

i was pretty noncommittal on how well this team would do this year from the start

 

Yes, exactly! The Bills need to fire their current terrible, backwards "establish the line of scrimmage" coach and hire a smart, innovative coach to ignite the offense. 

 

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7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I did not say that the OL is the only problem.....WHERE DID I SAY THAT

Our WR's are aweful....there is not one even close to legit number 1 on the team....Zay is a 3 at best....KB shouldnt even be here.....Pryor just came in MAYBE he is a 2

Our RBs are fine.....this points to the OL

 

The WHOLE thing does not need to be overhauled extreme weaknesses at some positions are hurting other positions.

 

If our OL was made a strength.....and we had a legit number 1 WR and a good TE....this team would look way different

 

So if we add maybe 3 OL, likely a TE and 1-2 WR we are good, unless shady is actually old or Allen is mediocre... then it’s like the whole thing. 

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9 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

The O-line FA's are solid and ample. We can rebuild our entire O-line alone in FA..

 

Thanks, but no... The only thing I want more than young, talented, O-linemen is someone capable to coach them.

 

 

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Assuming we end  up in the draft range of 3-5, I’d prefer we trade down. Get a plug and play OT and a reliable TE or WR that can be your go to for Allen with your two picks in the first round.  2nd round I add a WR or TE depending on what you did with your second pick in the first round. Third round draft a center. Address OG in FA. Add another WR thru FA. Address CB in FA as well. Draft a RB in the fourth round. Shoring up the OL would be a great foundation for JA and the running game. Adding a WR and TE in the draft along with another FA WR could instantly change the offense assuming you add three new pieces to the OL. I’d keep Clay and Croom as TE’s along with Zay. DiMarco, Benjamin, Ducasse, Logan and Mills can all go. In addition Crossman and Castillo need to be shown the door.

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On 11/4/2018 at 6:51 PM, CaptnCoke11 said:

90 million and a top 5 pick isnt going to turn around this team anytime soon. 

 

90 mil is like half an NFL roster. I expect 8-12 new starters coming next season 

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1 hour ago, TFBillsfan said:

Assuming we end  up in the draft range of 3-5, I’d prefer we trade down. Get a plug and play OT and a reliable TE or WR that can be your go to for Allen with your two picks in the first round.  2nd round I add a WR or TE depending on what you did with your second pick in the first round. Third round draft a center. Address OG in FA. Add another WR thru FA. Address CB in FA as well. Draft a RB in the fourth round. Shoring up the OL would be a great foundation for JA and the running game. Adding a WR and TE in the draft along with another FA WR could instantly change the offense assuming you add three new pieces to the OL. I’d keep Clay and Croom as TE’s along with Zay. DiMarco, Benjamin, Ducasse, Logan and Mills can all go. In addition Crossman and Castillo need to be shown the door.

I agree. put everything into the offensive side of the ball as the current defense would be so much better with even a half way decent offense that could score 20 pts a game. that could run the ball to make first downs, control the clock and keep the defense off the field.

 

Doubt that will happen though with McD as the HC.

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The thing thats amazing about McD and this offense is we cant run the ball or pass the ball.    Please list the guys ahead of McCoys zero TDs.    Please explain to me anyone that is being coached up.     Half a season and we cant get Shady in the EZ once?    That's pitiful.   Its coaching malpractice.  

Edited by billsfan714
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