oldmanfan Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: We looked better with Allen. Sure. That's like saying, I'd rather drink the milk that expired two weeks ago vs the milk that expired 2 months ago. Neither is actually going to be good for you. Reality is that Allen was the worst starting QB in the NFL when he got hurt. Sure he's better than the other guys, but there are probably 45-50 QBs in the NFL who are better than the other guys and only about 20 of them are actually franchise calibre players, so who cares? So the rookie is supposed to automatically be better than most guys in the league? Sure. Check out Darnold yesterday, and no one is saying he should not be playing or that he isn't their guy. Allen was improving as he went along. Sort of what young players do. And actually he probably wasn't the worst, because your boy Winston would be included in that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: the raw rookie qb was better then the other guys....but who cares? Because the raw rookie QB has the ability to get better. The other guys are complete garbage. A pylon is a better option playing QB than Nate Peterman. You guys are crowning Allen for looking better than two QBs who shouldn't be in the NFL. Congratulations. Allen might get better, or like 70% of QBs picked in the first round who weren't picked #1 overall and weren't very good to begin with, he might not. Allen probably isn't going to work out. The history of the NFL clearly shows that. Just now, oldmanfan said: So the rookie is supposed to automatically be better than most guys in the league? Sure. Check out Darnold yesterday, and no one is saying he should not be playing or that he isn't their guy. Allen was improving as he went along. Sort of what young players do. And actually he probably wasn't the worst, because your boy Winston would be included in that list. This just isn't true. Allen had steadily been regressing since halftime of the Vikings game. Do you guys even watch the games? He hadn't put the ball in the endzone for two full games, and you're telling me he was improving? Holy crap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Why not do this last season when there were franchise QBs available. Instead they were the 3rd oldest team and employed guys who will have no influence on 2020 like Tyrod, Lorax, McCoy, Hughes, Williams, Wood, Incognito. Now they are still the 5th oldest team and the worst. With no QB or franchise-changing player(s) coming out of the ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jrober38 said: The other guys are complete garbage. A pylon is a better option playing QB than Nate Peterman. You guys are crowning Allen for looking better than two QBs who shouldn't be in the NFL. Congratulations. Allen might get better, or like 70% of QBs picked in the first round who weren't picked #1 overall and weren't very good to begin with, he might not. Allen probably isn't going to work out. The history of the NFL clearly shows that. So what is your suggestion on correcting QB, OL, WR, RB and TE? Edited November 5, 2018 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 18 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said: 90 million and a top 5 pick isnt going to turn around this team anytime soon. But a top five pick in each of the first four rounds can, coupled with good free agent acquisitions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, Real McCoy said: So what is your suggestion on QB, OL, WR, RB and TE? Trade down from our 1st round pick, and stock pile picks. Try to get two 1st rounders or a 1st and two 2nds. Trade down from our 2nd round pick, and stock pile picks. Try to get two 2nd rounders, or a 2nd and two 3rds. Try to turn 10 picks in the full draft into 5-6 picks in the first three rounds, then draft BPA throughout the draft. Draft two wide receivers who can actually run, two linemen, a tight end, and a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round to push Allen for the job. Instead of drafting guys who fit your culture, stop drafting guys who can't play in the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round and take some shots on some guys with real talent who might have a little baggage off the field. This team desperately needs an influx of talent. They need to get bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic at WR, on the OL, and younger at RB. They also need to keep filling out the defense the way they have been the last two offseasons. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: The other guys are complete garbage. A pylon is a better option playing QB than Nate Peterman. You guys are crowning Allen for looking better than two QBs who shouldn't be in the NFL. Congratulations. Allen might get better, or like 70% of QBs picked in the first round who weren't picked #1 overall and weren't very good to begin with, he might not. Allen probably isn't going to work out. The history of the NFL clearly shows that. This just isn't true. Allen had steadily been regressing since halftime of the Vikings game. Do you guys even watch the games? He hadn't put the ball in the endzone for two full games, and you're telling me he was improving? Holy crap. I watched and charted every play of the Texans game. He was getting the ball out quick and on target the majority of his throws. He has a long way to go but he is developing. He may make it, may not. We should a hope he will. You need to quit pretending you're some kind of authority on NFL quarterback play vs. other posters. Your love of Winston proved you ain't that smart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Trade down from our 1st round pick, and stock pile picks. Try to get two 1st rounders or a 1st and two 2nds. Trade down from our 2nd round pick, and stock pile picks. Try to get two 2nd rounders, or a 2nd and two 3rds. Try to turn 10 picks in the full draft into 5-6 picks in the first three rounds, then draft BPA throughout the draft. Draft two wide receivers who can actually run, two linemen, a tight end, and a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round to push Allen for the job. Instead of drafting guys who fit your culture, stop drafting guys who can't play in the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round and take some shots on some guys with real talent who might have a little baggage off the field. This team desperately needs an influx of talent. They need to get bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic at WR, on the OL, and younger at RB. They also need to keep filling out the defense the way they have been the last two offseasons. I like the thought all around on the draft. How about Free agency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: I like the thought all around on the draft. How about Free agency? Honestly I'm not touching free agency. The Bills aren't going to be a destination anyone wants to play next year. Our HC will be on the hot seat, we'll have an unproven QB and will have no real sales pitch to get free agents to buy in at market value. I'd ignore the top guys, can keep building out the defense with low cost veterans who can fill specific roles that will make that side of the ball more talented with more depth. If the Bills want to get better they need to nail the draft with a massive influx of talent. Beane needs to stop trading up for players, and start trading down and stockpiling value so that we can bring in 5-6 guys who can immediately contribute next year, with almost all of them needing to join the offensive side of the football. 7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I watched and charted every play of the Texans game. He was getting the ball out quick and on target the majority of his throws. He has a long way to go but he is developing. He may make it, may not. We should a hope he will. You need to quit pretending you're some kind of authority on NFL quarterback play vs. other posters. Your love of Winston proved you ain't that smart. Again, this just isn't true. We didn't move the ball at all for 2.5 quarters prior to his throw to Benjamin where he got hurt. That throw represented half of his yardage on the day. All he does is dink and dunk down the field. If we take a negative play we might as well punt because Allen can't convert 3rd and long situations. Edited November 5, 2018 by jrober38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Honestly I'm not touching free agency. The Bills aren't going to be a destination anyone wants to play next year. Our HC will be on the hot seat, we'll have an unproven QB and will have no real sales pitch to get free agents to buy in at market value. I'd ignore the top guys, can keep building out the defense with low cost veterans who can fill specific roles that will make that side of the ball more talented with more depth. If the Bills want to get better they need to nail the draft with a massive influx of talent. Beane needs to stop trading up for players, and start trading down and stockpiling value so that we can bring in 5-6 guys who can immediately contribute next year, with almost all of them needing to join the offensive side of the football. Again, this just isn't true. We didn't move the ball at all for 2.5 quarters prior to his throw to Benjamin where he got hurt. That throw represented half of his yardage on the day. All he does is dink and dunk down the field. If we take a negative play we might as well punt because Allen can't convert 3rd and long situations. Did you chart each and every throw he made? if not then you have no case. They need to open the offense up more. No one is arguing that. 24 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Trade down from our 1st round pick, and stock pile picks. Try to get two 1st rounders or a 1st and two 2nds. Trade down from our 2nd round pick, and stock pile picks. Try to get two 2nd rounders, or a 2nd and two 3rds. Try to turn 10 picks in the full draft into 5-6 picks in the first three rounds, then draft BPA throughout the draft. Draft two wide receivers who can actually run, two linemen, a tight end, and a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round to push Allen for the job. Instead of drafting guys who fit your culture, stop drafting guys who can't play in the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round and take some shots on some guys with real talent who might have a little baggage off the field. This team desperately needs an influx of talent. They need to get bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic at WR, on the OL, and younger at RB. They also need to keep filling out the defense the way they have been the last two offseasons. We agree here. I'd trade down, not to the extent your propose, but we need some O linemen in here, and help at receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 19 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said: 90 million and a top 5 pick isnt going to turn around this team anytime soon. Except it will. Rams did it. Bears did it. Now Bills will do it. Both teams took rookies they traded up for (and gave up a lot more than we did). Both had good foundations on defense and terrible personnel on offense. Both rookies suuuccckked their rookie year. Both teams heavily invested the following off season in offensive talent in FA and draft, especially FA. Both offenses and teams instantly turned around. Bills have a better D than either Rams or Bears had during their QBs rookies year. Bills are in a very good spot to make a significant turnaround in one season if they can fill out the offensive side of the ball so Allen can take a step forward. People here are nuts right now and have lost all scope of reality. Bills can become a REAL contender very quickly if we can put the right offensive pieces around Allen...assuming Allen develops as a result, which I think he is going to be good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo44 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 19 hours ago, John from Riverside said: The bills are doing exactly what they are trying to do get a top 5 pick in this next draft i don’t like how bad they look on offense either but the fact is they are trying to avoid overpaying for free agents in the offseason to fix this mess you do that by drafting high because less of a chance to screw it up This season is LOST it was always going to be LOST if you can get your mind wrapped around that it will help with your sanity It does not matter if you lose by 1 or 100 a loss is a loss This team is tanking so it can acquire blue chip talent and not have to pay for it they are going to target specific free agents and draft at the big money positions be patient This is way too rational and makes way too much sense for most posters on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 56 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Sure, but like I said you're not fixing all those problems in one offseason. And like I said...not every single problem has to be fixed in order to field a legit NFL offense It is amplified because they are so bad at MULTIPLE positions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 56 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: If our OL was made a strength.....and we had a legit number 1 WR and a good TE....this team would look way different Hot damn you're right!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 59 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Trade down from our 1st round pick, and stock pile picks. Try to get two 1st rounders or a 1st and two 2nds. Trade down from our 2nd round pick, and stock pile picks. Try to get two 2nd rounders, or a 2nd and two 3rds. Try to turn 10 picks in the full draft into 5-6 picks in the first three rounds, then draft BPA throughout the draft. Draft two wide receivers who can actually run, two linemen, a tight end, and a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round to push Allen for the job. Instead of drafting guys who fit your culture, stop drafting guys who can't play in the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round and take some shots on some guys with real talent who might have a little baggage off the field. This team desperately needs an influx of talent. They need to get bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic at WR, on the OL, and younger at RB. They also need to keep filling out the defense the way they have been the last two offseasons. Nice plan Would you say that the plan works better if we actually have a top 5 pick and we have something to "trade down" with? Because there seems to be a plan for that as well.....oh wait Bean and McD have no vision or any business running this football team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 44 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Honestly I'm not touching free agency. The Bills aren't going to be a destination anyone wants to play next year. Our HC will be on the hot seat, we'll have an unproven QB and will have no real sales pitch to get free agents to buy in at market value. I'd ignore the top guys, can keep building out the defense with low cost veterans who can fill specific roles that will make that side of the ball more talented with more depth. If the Bills want to get better they need to nail the draft with a massive influx of talent. Beane needs to stop trading up for players, and start trading down and stockpiling value so that we can bring in 5-6 guys who can immediately contribute next year, with almost all of them needing to join the offensive side of the football. What are we sitting on 90 million for? If Beane and McD are smart they invest heavily into the O-line come FA on proven players. College lineman, you cannot trust them as a day1 starters anymore if drafted high. Use the draft to correct the WR and TE positions. Invest a 3rd-4th rd pick on a real QB2 with high upside. The D is fine aside from a CB#2 right now. Mcd had 2 years to play around on the D side, it's time for Offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Its hard to relax when there is 4 teams that have more cap space then the Bills next season and when McCoach believes that Peterman is a starting QB in this league still. The fact this regime can't see that Peterman can't play in this league and shouldn't be on this team tells me all I need to know about their eye for talent on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Hot damn you're right!!!!!!! Well.....since we both agree that we probably wont get those things in free agency.....maybe we better draft them? 57 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Honestly I'm not touching free agency. The Bills aren't going to be a destination anyone wants to play next year. Our HC will be on the hot seat, we'll have an unproven QB and will have no real sales pitch to get free agents to buy in at market value. I'd ignore the top guys, can keep building out the defense with low cost veterans who can fill specific roles that will make that side of the ball more talented with more depth. If the Bills want to get better they need to nail the draft with a massive influx of talent. Beane needs to stop trading up for players, and start trading down and stockpiling value so that we can bring in 5-6 guys who can immediately contribute next year, with almost all of them needing to join the offensive side of the football. Again, this just isn't true. We didn't move the ball at all for 2.5 quarters prior to his throw to Benjamin where he got hurt. That throw represented half of his yardage on the day. All he does is dink and dunk down the field. If we take a negative play we might as well punt because Allen can't convert 3rd and long situations. I think paying for some veteran offensive linemen would be a smart investment. If you draft one high and bring in 2 free agents you could really help this team...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 32 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Except it will. Rams did it. Bears did it. Now Bills will do it. Both teams took rookies they traded up for (and gave up a lot more than we did). Both had good foundations on defense and terrible personnel on offense. Both rookies suuuccckked their rookie year. Both teams heavily invested the following off season in offensive talent in FA and draft, especially FA. Both offenses and teams instantly turned around. Bills have a better D than either Rams or Bears had during their QBs rookies year. Bills are in a very good spot to make a significant turnaround in one season if they can fill out the offensive side of the ball so Allen can take a step forward. People here are nuts right now and have lost all scope of reality. Bills can become a REAL contender very quickly if we can put the right offensive pieces around Allen...assuming Allen develops as a result, which I think he is going to be good. This is it Dawg. We have to give him the weapons to make a clear decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Real McCoy said: This is it Dawg. We have to give him the weapons to make a clear decision. Kelvin Benjamin is most definately not this....which is a huge part of the problem. it does not bother me that he cant get separation......big physical WR's are supposed to make contested catches......they are supposed to play basketball and shield the defender from the ball and catch it...... This is not him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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