John Wawrow on the QB situation

[GunnerBill]

Here is how it was mishandled:

 

A man who can not play was still on the roster. He. Can. Not. Play. And we get to see him fail spectacularly on Sunday. 

 

The difference is for the first time other than the snow game where offensive expectations for everyone were low they are trotting him out at home. It is a big risk for McDermott and Beane because if the man who can't play ***** the bed again I reckon the Ralph will be pretty toxic in a way the Pegulas have not seen yet. Toxic to a point where an owner who has already shown a propensity to panic might start to panic. 

[Dan]

I think another key point to remember in all this is that they continued to shuffle the Oline and QBs, with no clear starters until after the preseason.   There was no time for any chemistry or the offense to become established.   They shuffled the WRs quite a bit as well. But with their injury status that's a little more understandable. 

 

But that is ..never.. a recipe for success in the NFL. Especially when you consider they had a new OC, it seems an even greater amount of hubris. 

 

It seemed obvious to me at the time, the most likely route to success was name your starters early and give them time to gel in a new offense.   Not that it would be successful, but it was the best chance for success.  That was start AJM as the only guy to have won an NFL game and had a few years prepping for NFL defenses.  Peterman as his backup.  And Allen watching, learning, and continuing to work on his footwork/mechanic/accuracy issues so that he doesn't revert to the flawed mechanics as soon as he's under pressure in a game. 

 

They all acted with a great amount of naivety or perhaps just plain cockiness.  But they clearly underestimated, or just simply do not know, how hard it is to field a proper offense. 

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

9 hours ago, Commonsense said:

I know this might be mind blowing stuff but if they were able to read the Peterman situation correctly they could have signed a guy like Anderson in the offseason and had him ready to go. Not that he is a savior but I’m sure he would have looked better the first 4-6 weeks if sitting Allen was the plan. 

 

I agree - except they tried to get Anderson in the off season and he was not interested at the time.  They talked with Matt Moore - he was not coming back this off season.  McCown decided to resign with the NYJs where he had already played last off season. They talked with a lot of options, but the veterans were mostly already signed or holding out to see what opens up.

 

So the real options were pay big money for Keenum or Bradford - or take a risk on McCarron/Bridgewater.  With little money - the Keenum/Bradford option was eliminated (and that was good as neither has played well this year in their new homes) - so that left what they did McCarron.  They could not go into the camp with Bridgewater unless they were sure he was 100% and if he was not allowing physicals - there is your answer.  The Bills would of had to sign both and although that is an option- I believe they wanted Josh to get as much time playing as possible.

 

The big issue is Peterman- they trusted what they saw in preseason and that was their mistake.  They seemed to want to get to about the bye week with an alternate starter and Peterman blew up a half into week 1.  

 

They lost a gamble - bad on them.  Since that point they are trying to get in order, but they have limited options and just need to get through until Josh is healthy again.

 

They bungled the Peterman situation badly, but it is not like he was not the best in training camp at all levels against 1,2, &3s - so that sort of pushed them into the bad choice.

[fansince88]

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

This is easy:

 

How about "yeah, outbid Elway for Keenum".

 

or:

 

"was it wise to get rid of TT when your plan was to sit Allen behind a starting QB?"

 

Or:

 

"Kaepernick too much for Mr. Pegula to handle?"

 

 

What's the issue here?  That the press can't ask a question unless they have a followup?  I mean who hasn't asked about Bridgewater, TT, AJM already in this context?

Ask the Brown's. They may know the answer to this.

[The Process]

It's Monday morning in my arm chair......let me tell you what should have happened yesterday.....

[BuffaloWings]

12 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

People keep bringing up Kaepernick, but never stop to think that the dude doesn't really want to play unless he is played franchise starting QB money.  He turned down an offer from Denver and then sued the league for collusion.  The guy is a nut case.

 

Let's not forget that he's not that good of a QB. Defenses figured out how to defend him with the read-option and he couldn't adjust to that.

 

So then he stirs up controversy just to get himself into the spotlight again.

 

Nut case is pretty spot on.

Edited November 2, 2018 by BuffaloWings

[JESSEFEFFER]

9 hours ago, QCity said:

The fans that are whining about McCarron not being here are the same people that would be whining if McCarron was still here.

 

They call that a whine-whine situation. 

 

Whine-whine situation.  Outstanding!  I might ask if I could borrow that because I know a few people in my world to whom it may be applied.  It may be worthy of a copyright.

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

I think Wawrow is saying the press isn't giving the Bills the chance to defend their decision making process by refusing to actually ask them the question.

 

It's not so much a commentary on the story, but the press' reaction.

 

What is there to defend in the QB situation???  

 

• They got rid of a competent veteran QB in Taylor to save some $$$. 
• They signed a backup QB, McCarron, who plainly was looking for a starting gig to prove himself and saw Buffalo as a good place to do it.  Then they trade McCarron when he objected to being third string behind Nate "Picksix" Peterman on the very specious argument that Peterman looked better playing against scrubs than McCarron did playing against first stringers.
• The dead cap space the Bills incurred by trading Taylor and McCarron was around $10 million, but hey, that's okay because they saved millions in current salary by getting rid of these guys.  That extra cap space could have gotten them 1 or 2 or maybe even 3 better offensive players than the ones currently on the team, but dead cap is only "on the books" it's not actual $$ out of the owner's pockets.
• When Peterman crapped the bed in the season opener, the Bills were fine with going with raw rookie Josh Allen and the incompetent Peterman for a MONTH before they finally got around to adding a competent backup QB, in this case a washed up 35-year-old who hadn't played a snap in 2 years and hadn't started in 7. 
• Now, they're back to Picksix Peterman as the starter backed up by Matt Barkley who's only been on the team for a few days, but hey, the Pegulas are making a fat profit by filling the stadium while fielding the lowest paid roster in the NFL, so all's good.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by SoTier

[billsredneck1]

12 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Never was a reason to trade Mccarron. That pick will become a nobody and we will have suffered through an entire year of wasted offense and a Peterman yo-yo because of it. Mccarron would have been the starter after week 1 and everything would have fallen into place. Peterman would have probably been cut after Baltimore. Never would have lost us the Houston game. Maybe Allen never gets hurt. 

 

If the Bills HAD to trade one of the guys, they should have waited until after the regular season started and took advantage of a teams injury. Probably could have gotten more from SF if we waited. Also might have been able to get Cleveland interested. We rushed for no reason. Just constantly making ridiculous personnel decisions.

that was a major,major blunder fo sho.

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Gugny said:

Here's where I get rubbed:  Going into the season with a rookie (take Allen's name out of it) and Nathan Peterman is irresponsible.

 

There's not a football fan on the face of the earth who didn't know that Nate Peterman is not an NFL QB ... let alone a backup ... let alone a starter.

 

I don't begrudge the Bills getting rid of McCarron for a 5th.  He made it pretty clear in preseason that there was a reason he's a career backup.  I also don't begrudge them for not going after Bridgewater for the reasons outlined upstream in this thread.

 

But, Christ.  Peterman and a rookie???  Why not get Anderson in here earlier?  Or kick Barkley's tires earlier?  Or any other FA QBs out there.

 

The entire attitude taken with regard to this position (the most important in all sports) was casual.  That is a failure.

 

I won't sit here and pretend that I know what they should have done.  That's just one reason I"m sitting in my dining room typing this and not an NFL GM.  But as a football fan, I can say with certainty that going into this season with Peterman and a rookie was Bush League, inept crap.

 

 

I am exactly here. I don't hate trading McCarron. I wasn't a fan before he got here and he didn't convince me. A 5th back for him I'm pretty happy with. It is the faith in Peterman that is so obviously perplexing. Having been stung by it twice they were still willing to let him serve as the only backup for a month before taking action. He should have been cut within a week of the Baltimore game and if he wasn't then within 24 hours of the Houston debacle.

 

I'm sure he is a good guy, he talks about God a lot.... I'm sure he is a great family man. But cut the emotion and look at it rationally. He is out of his depth. He should not be on this roster any longer. Instead he starts on Sunday.

[billsredneck1]

10 hours ago, ganesh said:

You get a 5th round pick as a pro bowl player once every 10 years....last we had a successful 5th round pick was Kyle Williams

i think karlos williams was handled wrong....mainly because we had other options.  didn't we pick johnathan in the 5th as well?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, billsredneck1 said:

i think karlos williams was handled wrong....mainly because we had other options.  didn't we pick johnathan in the 5th as well?

 

Yea old leaden foot JWill was a 5th rounder. His number was called in the 4th round but by the time he got his feet moving it was mid 5th when he answered the call.

[rpmfla]

13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

This is easy:

 

"was it wise to get rid of TT when your plan was to sit Allen behind a starting QB?"

 

 

What's the issue here?  That the press can't ask a question unless they have a followup?  I mean who hasn't asked about Bridgewater, TT, AJM already in this context?

 

I don't understand what Thurman Thomas has to do with the QB situation.

[Rigotz]

13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

This is easy:

 

How about "yeah, outbid Elway for Keenum".

 

or:

 

"was it wise to get rid of TT when your plan was to sit Allen behind a starting QB?"

 

Or:

 

"Kaepernick too much for Mr. Pegula to handle?"

 

 

What's the issue here?  That the press can't ask a question unless they have a followup?  I mean who hasn't asked about Bridgewater, TT, AJM already in this context?

 

Is this a joke? Why are people liking this post?

- You actually want CASE KEENUM to be the future of our franchise? He signed a 2 year deal with a better franchise to be a starter. We would need to offer at least 3 years.

- You would rather have TYROD TAYLOR than Harrison Phillips? Seriously? You disliked that trade?

- You want COLIN KAEPERNICK .... a player that would completely BLOW UP our locker room and potentially franchise?

 

...do you guys have zero concept of how to build for the future?

[oldmanfan]

Wawrow makes a good point.  We all agree it would have been good to bring in a vet when they traded McCarron.  Who? And would that have really changed the season at all?

[stony]

3 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

 

Is this a joke? Why are people liking this post?

- You actually want CASE KEENUM to be the future of our franchise? He signed a 2 year deal with a better franchise to be a starter. We would need to offer at least 3 years.

- You would rather have TYROD TAYLOR than Harrison Phillips? Seriously? You disliked that trade?

- You want COLIN KAEPERNICK .... a player that would completely BLOW UP our locker room and potentially franchise?

 

...do you guys have zero concept of how to build for the future?

I don't know how to build a franchise, hopefully McBeane do.  

 

What I do know, is during the period of Rex's firing and McD's hiring, Terry stood up at the podium and made some very pointed remarks concerning how his franchise is perceived nationally.  Criticisms during the Rex period were largely and justifiably aimed at Rex because he was a buffoon.  The criticisms leveled at the team presently point at bungled QB management and a historically putrid offense.   I'm curious how Terry's reacted to this, and just how much equity McBeane have squandered given how the current season has played out.   

[Jrb1979]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Wawrow makes a good point.  We all agree it would have been good to bring in a vet when they traded McCarron.  Who? And would that have really changed the season at all?

You keep saying would it change the season at all?  IMO yes it would. As bad as Anderson is, he atleast put up some yards and the offense looked a little respectable. Any other QB other then Allen or Picksix would be better. Allen is not ready to play and it shows by how he can't read defenses. 

[GG]

I think most everyone missed jw's rationale for starting his tweetstorm. 

[DCOrange]

13 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

People keep bringing up Kaepernick, but never stop to think that the dude doesn't really want to play unless he is played franchise starting QB money.  He turned down an offer from Denver and then sued the league for collusion.  The guy is a nut case.

 

I don't really know when this became a thing, but this is flat out false.

 

Denver offered to trade for Kaepernick on the condition that Kaepernick would take a 50% paycut, to which he declined like anybody else would have. This happened BEFORE he had ever protested and before the league allegedly colluded against him.

 

The only offer that Kaepernick has reportedly received since he began protesting was a league-minimum deal from Seattle. It's not really shocking that a guy that played decently well as a starter the last time we saw him would want more than the minimum to continue playing.

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

You keep saying would it change the season at all?  IMO yes it would. As bad as Anderson is, he atleast put up some yards and the offense looked a little respectable. Any other QB other then Allen or Picksix would be better. Allen is not ready to play and it shows by how he can't read defenses. 

May have picked up one extra win.  May not have had the game Allen had against Tennessee or MInny. 

 

Arguments are made both ways on Allen playing vs. not playing.  In the end he was doing about as well as the other rookie QBs; all are having ups and downs.