Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 36 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: I'm not knocking you specifically, but some of the criticism of this doctor is a little absurd. He's not going to perform surgery via twitter. As an interested observer, I appreciate some insight on the possibilities. If anyone is taking his speculation as fact, that's really on them. He's obviously not making a definitive diagnosis. This is an elbow injury to boot. It's not life or death. I'm probably the most critical and I'll stand by it. For Chao to report that it's probably an UCL injury watching film of a trainer doing the milking test on the sideline is reasonable. To put himself out there with "concern for structural damage" and "out for at least a month" based on video of Allen's pain reaction to a trainer doing the milking test on the sideline is over the top. Just having had a helmet smashed into it there is bound to be soft tissue bruising and maybe a 'stinger' that would also cause pain. Chao isn't the one observing the critical information which would be the degree of joint laxity on physical exam, especially in a few days when the bruising goes down. Chao is trading on his credentials as a former NFL team doctor to garner media attention in what, IMO, is an unethical manner for a physician to behave. You are welcome to disagree and call this viewpoint absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, One Buffalo said: If the sprained elbow report it true then that is good news... much better than the UCL reports reports have been the same ... it’s a sprain of the UCL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, One Buffalo said: If the sprained elbow report it true then that is good news... much better than the UCL reports That's what a sprain is, a slight tear to a ligament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, One Buffalo said: If the sprained elbow report it true then that is good news... much better than the UCL reports Erm, a sprain is damage to the ligaments in a joint in different degree, from stretching with no tearing to mild tearing that will heal without surgery, to complete tearing requiring surgical repair. In the elbow, the ligament most commonly sprained is the UCL. In other words, report of an elbow sprain IS a report of damage to the UCL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm probably the most critical and I'll stand by it. For Chao to report that it's probably an UCL injury watching film of a trainer doing the milking test on the sideline is reasonable. To put himself out there with "concern for structural damage" and "out for at least a month" based on video of Allen's pain reaction to a trainer doing the milking test on the sideline is over the top. Just having had a helmet smashed into it there is bound to be soft tissue bruising and maybe a 'stinger' that would also cause pain. Chao isn't the one observing the critical information which would be the degree of joint laxity on physical exam, especially in a few days when the bruising goes down. Chao is trading on his credentials as a former NFL team doctor to garner media attention in what, IMO, is an unethical manner for a physician to behave. You are welcome to disagree and call this viewpoint absurd. I was tempted to say unethical as well, but chose not to. I see your point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Buffalo Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: reports have been the same ... it’s a sprain of the UCL Well I guess I am saying this report doesn't seem to indicate surgery and missing all of 2019. We still need to hear final conclusion obviously. Hoping for the best! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: a person with direct knowledge of Josh Allen's injury tells The Associated Press the Buffalo Bills rookie quarterback has been diagnosed with a sprained right elbow on his throwing arm and is not expected to play against Indianapolis on Sunday. The person says Allen's playing status is considered week to week as opposed to being indefinite. The person spoke to The Associated Press on Tuesday on the condition of anonymity because the team has not revealed the nature of the injury. If that's from Wawrow put out on AP then you can bank on it. They don't think it's torn, pending MRI confirmation. How badly it's actually sprained is gonna have to wait until later this week when the swelling goes down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, One Buffalo said: Well I guess I am saying this report doesn't seem to indicate surgery and missing all of 2019. We still need to hear final conclusion obviously. Hoping for the best! I know what you are saying ... and appreciate that as well. Just to clarify for anyone just jumping into this thread... that was never actually reported. It was only brought up on twitter as a possibility, however slim, due to lack of info on the severity and simply not knowing enough to rule it out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm probably the most critical and I'll stand by it. For Chao to report that it's probably an UCL injury watching film of a trainer doing the milking test on the sideline is reasonable. To put himself out there with "concern for structural damage" and "out for at least a month" based on video of Allen's pain reaction to a trainer doing the milking test on the sideline is over the top. Just having had a helmet smashed into it there is bound to be soft tissue bruising and maybe a 'stinger' that would also cause pain. Chao isn't the one observing the critical information which would be the degree of joint laxity on physical exam, especially in a few days when the bruising goes down. Chao is trading on his credentials as a former NFL team doctor to garner media attention in what, IMO, is an unethical manner for a physician to behave. You are welcome to disagree and call this viewpoint absurd. I tend to agree that Chao is trading his credentials as a former NFL team doctor to garner media attention. I don't know that it's entirely unethical. He's making a somewhat educated, entirely speculative guess to the extent of JA's injury. The fact that he's a physician doesn't necessarily restrict him from using that experience in a morally ambiguous manner. I've never held doctors in the highest esteem anyways, so I'm probably a bit biased. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 54 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: I'm not knocking you specifically, but some of the criticism of this doctor is a little absurd. He's not going to perform surgery via twitter. As an interested observer, I appreciate some insight on the possibilities. Every injury has the possibility of being serious. Specifically bringing up the absolute worst case scenario, which is incredibly unlikely, is definitely click bait. You could do that for any sports injury before the official diagnosis comes out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: If he does have a tear and need Tommy Johns, yes. But we don't yet know that, it's all speculation. Tommy John surgery would be a year plus for a qb? I know it is for pitchers, but in baseball, field players have a much shorter rehab, like half a year iirc. It's a different motion in football compared to baseball also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Every injury has the possibility of being serious. Specifically bringing up the absolute worst case scenario, which is incredibly unlikely, is definitely click bait. You could do that for any sports injury before the official diagnosis comes out. That’s really the only issue I had with Chao today - deliberately tweeting that out this morning to rile up the masses, especially those that just browse twitter and take it all as fact, and seemingly ignoring the report on the actual MRI. Sure, The team docs could be wrong. (He used to be one, btw). They are doing their due diligence to not take any chances by having Andrews look at it too. But he’s kind of assuming they are (why?) if he’s going to throw out a lightning rod tweet headline about Tommy John surgery being on the table. That’s all I meant. He really should have said that based on the initial report from doctors who saw the MRI and are examining and treating him, he’s probably put up to about a month, and if anything else comes out he can further speculate on it. And stopped there. Otherwise you get the fans and media jumping around saying he’s out until 2020 and we need to draft a Qb and fire everyone ... because they only see that one tweet. Edited October 16, 2018 by YoloinOhio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: That’s really the only issue I had with Chao today - deliberately tweeting that out this morning to rile up the masses, especially those that just browse twitter and take it all as fact, and seemingly ignoring the report on the actual MRI. Sure, The team docs could be wrong. (He used to be one, btw). They are doing their due diligence to not take any chances by having Andrews look at it too. But he’s kind of assuming they are (why?) if he’s going to throw out a lightning rod tweet headline about Tommy John surgery being on the table. That’s all I meant. He really should have said that based on the initial report from doctors who saw the MRI and are examining and treating him, he’s probably put up to about a month, and if anything else comes out he can further speculate on it. Yep. Sensationalism at its best. One thing for media whores to do that, quite another for an MD sworn to the oath. Then again, everyone are media whores these days, it seems, including MDs. Edited October 16, 2018 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, HardyBoy said: Tommy John surgery would be a year plus for a qb? I know it is for pitchers, but in baseball, field players have a much shorter rehab, like half a year iirc. It's a different motion in football compared to baseball also. Yup, and discussed at some length on previous pages in this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 We’re gonna sit him in the bench to hide our *****up is basically what they’re saying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, The_Dude said: We’re gonna sit him in the bench to hide our *****up is basically what they’re saying. Clearly you have seen through the myriad of deceptions they've laid before us.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Clearly you have seen through the myriad of deceptions they've laid before us.? Yeah? Well if I were running the show we’d have Mahomes and Watkins on the team and we’d be a lot better. So there’s that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, The_Dude said: We’re gonna sit him in the bench to hide our *****up is basically what they’re saying. How do you sit someone "In the Bench?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Buffalo Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000975056/article/injuries-bills-dont-expect-elbow-surgery-for-josh-allen Quote The Buffalo Bills believe the sprained ulnar collateral ligament in Josh Allen's throwing elbow will not require Tommy John surgery, and the one-year recovery tab that accompanies that procedure, NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reported Tuesday. Quote Meanwhile, Allen is scheduled to see noted physician Dr. James Andrews for a second opinion on his elbow. "The hope is that he will just confirm what the initial belief was, which is again, a little bit of rest, a little bit of rehab and then he's back on the field within a couple of weeks," Garafolo said. Edited October 16, 2018 by One Buffalo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Wyo_Bills Fan said: How do you sit someone "In the Bench?" the same way you "ride the range"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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