The Ringer's Rodger Sherman Does Not "Respect the Process"

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

1 hour ago, PeterDude said:

 

He said trading up multiple times to do that is not building for the future, and he's correct. 

 

He's only correct if we're assuming that those draft picks spent to trade up would turn into players that actually contribute. Trading up, theoretically, increases the chance of not only hitting on a player, but in this case, hitting on potentially really good players at pivotal positions. 

 

IMO, it was an odd comment. There's no right or wrong in that comment, because we don't yet know the end result with Allen/Edmunds. And since they traded away those picks, we'll never know the answer to the flip side. I suppose an argument can be made for both sides. However, we've seen some past Bills teams built via the draft, yet they never found that QB, rendering those players useless, essentially, since it didn't translate to a winning product, and those players ended up leaving for greener pastures anyways...

[BmarvB]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

Sherman pretty much said most of the same things I've been saying since the end of last season.  BTW, do they even have a practice squad player who can impersonate a QB if Allen or Peterman gets hurt? 

Nope. Even an aging veteran on his last legs like Matt Moore would have been useful to help the QB's along, even if he never has to set foot on the field.

[blacklabel]

The Ringer has a very small handful of writers that produce quality content. This dude is not one of them. They started out strong but for a while now a lot of their stuff has clickbaity headlines and smug, arrogant writing.

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

All I can say is, what does this guy(Rodger Sherman) want?

 

How is drafting Josh Allen & Tremaine Edmunds not building for the future? Quarterback & Linebacker were our biggest needs, and we addressed that in the first round! What should we have done instead?! Drafted a Cornerback & a Tight End?

 

Also he needs to get his facts straight. Jeremy Kerley was with the 49'ers last year.

To be fair, I think his point was that the Bills could have addressed those needs without paying the steep price to move up. A team like the Bills that gutted their roster and left holes to fill all over the place. They had lots of draft picks, but actually drafted very few players with those picks. It’s a valid point. They could have addressed the OL, WR, LB and QB positions if they hadn’t squandered so many picks in trade ups. 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I disagree wholeheartedly with this line:

 

... In this year’s draft, the front office traded up three times: twice to get Allen (at a huge disadvantage in terms of draft pick value) and once to get linebacker Tremaine Edmunds. Those aren’t moves made by a team looking to build for the future.

 

If trading up for a raw small school QB with huge upside and a barely-20 years old freaky athletic defensive-centerpiece-for-the-next-decade type MLB aren't 'moves made by a team looking to build for the future'...I dunno what those moves are supposed to be then. 

I think you kinda contradicted yourself.  Raw, small school qb seems insanely risky and not the best way to prepare for the future.  

 

And I like Edmunds a lot.  But when you’re a “rebuilding” team, trading up in the 1st round for anything but a qb is rarely a smart move.  

Hopefully, we nailed both picks and it’s a homer in. If they don’t, they should be criticized for not making smart moves.

[The_Dude]

There have been warning signs about McDermott from the beginning. He’s an organized guy. He’s got attention to detail. But at the end of the day he’s Dick Jauron Jr. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

There have been warning signs about McDermott from the beginning. He’s an organized guy. He’s got attention to detail. But at the end of the day he’s Dick Jauron Jr. 

I definitely don’t disagree.  That said, if Jauron found a franchise qb, he would have been fine.  So if Allen is the truth, SM will be fine.  If not, he’s done.

[stony]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

Who and from where?  I swear, there must be a million sports sites out there.

Huge website headed by Bill Simmons.  Lots of highly rated podcasts.

[The_Dude]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I definitely don’t disagree.  That said, if Jauron found a franchise qb, he would have been fine.  So if Allen is the truth, SM will be fine.  If not, he’s done.

 

Thats true. Lots of lousy coaches look good with a franchise QB. Jim Caldwell to me was one of the dumbest coaches ever. I mean he was dumb. But Peyton Manning kept him employed for a minute. 

[Lurker]

Sorry.   I'm not that interested in what a guy that looks like he still lives in Mama's basement has to say...

 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Sorry.   I'm not that interested in what a guy that looks like he still lives in Mama's basement has to say...

 

So petty.  I’m sure if you posted every writers and most posters pictures (not mine because I’m hot), they are way bigger dorks out there.

[Batman1876]

4 hours ago, PeterDude said:

 

He said trading up multiple times to do that is not building for the future, and he's correct. 

When we traded up for Edmunds we traded our first and a third for their first and a fifth. So we still ended up with 2 players.  I also think that the benefit of getting a guy you have as a top10 guy rather than a guy you think is a late first guy is greater than giving a 3rd for a fifth. In other words top 10+5th > late 1st + 3.

 

As for trading up for a top Quarterback prospect, it’s the only way to get a top prospect in today’s NFL, everyone wants to build around a rookie contract QB. The fact that a top prospect lasted until 7th was an anomaly.  If you want a top prospect you either need to be picking at 1 or 2  or be ready to trade up.  

[Lurker]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So petty.  I’m sure if you posted every writers and most posters pictures (not mine because I’m hot), they are way bigger dorks out there.

 

I bet you'd like to look as good as Rodger.    In your dreams, Corney...

[TheElectricCompany]

The trade ups don't bother me at all. Both prices were reasonable considering the targets. 

If both guys are Pro Bowl caliber, it's a non issue. I think Edmunds will get there, but I have my concerns about Allen.

The concerns about the OL, QB room, Mcdermott's vision,  playmakers on offense, dead money, soft defense, etc. are all fair until proven otherwise.

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[oldmanfan]

You have to do anything to get your potential franchise QB.  Until you do.  Then it's wrong.

[Billsflyer12]

They used 6 1-3 round picks to draft 3 players, Allen, Edmunds and Harrison.  Even if all 3 of those players are good for a rebuilding team with a ton of needs that is not smart.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Billsflyer12

[TheElectricCompany]

2 hours ago, blacklabel said:

The Ringer has a very small handful of writers that produce quality content. This dude is not one of them. 

 

He had this great take, hysterical!

Rodger Sherman‏Verified account @rodger_sherman

My scouting report on Christian Hackenberg

STRENGTHS tall, looks like a QB

WEAKNESSES throwing footballs, pocket awareness, playing QB

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

They used 6 1-3 round picks to draft 3 players, Allen, Edmunds and Harrison.  Even if all 3 of those players are good for a rebuilding team with a ton of needs that is not smart.

Would you not say getting two guys you see as your leaders for years on both sides of the ball is a good start at rebuilding?

[26CornerBlitz]

Ah yes. The classic TSW takedown of a writer when they negatively critique the Buffalo Bills.  Not at all predictable.  

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Ah yes. The classic TSW takedown of a writer when they negatively critique the Buffalo Bills.  Not at all predictable.  

Is it not OK to challenge him?

 

how many folks before the draft last year were saying you have to get the QB no matter what?

[Lurker]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Ah yes. The classic TSW takedown of a writer when they negatively critique the Buffalo Bills.  Not at all predictable.  

 

Have some fun, linker man.    This place is a real sanitarium when the Bills lose...

 

His other article on the Jests starts out this way, so Ol' Rodger can laugh at more than the Bills:

 

"...As a fan of the New York Jets, I have spent most of my life waiting for my favorite football team to look competent. Instead, they have cemented their status as one of the funniest franchises in professional sports, a consistent laughingstock whose attempts at competence have only dug them deeper into failure. "

 

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by Lurker

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Is it not OK to challenge him?

 

how many folks before the draft last year were saying you have to get the QB no matter what?

 

That's not what his critique is about.

[Batman1876]

12 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

They used 6 1-3 round picks to draft 3 players, Allen, Edmunds and Harrison.  Even if all 3 of those players are good for a rebuilding team with a ton of needs that is not smart.

I think what’s not smart is building a team but not taking the best shot possible to get the best QBs possible.  Otherwise you end up resorting to lesser draft prospects, other teams backups, washed up veterans and reclamation projects. 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That's not what his critique is about.

I disagree. He is saying he doesn't understand their plan for building.  But they spent capital to get their QB and their leader of the D; two young guys who could be fixtures for years.  How is that not a plan for building?

[stony]

8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Have some fun, linker man.    This place is a real sanitarium when the Bills lose...

 

His other article on the Jests starts out this way, so Ol' Rodger can laugh at more than the Bills:

 

"...As a fan of the New York Jets, I have spent most of my life waiting for my favorite football team to look competent. Instead, they have cemented their status as one of the funniest franchises in professional sports, a consistent laughingstock whose attempts at competence have only dug them deeper into failure. "

 

 

Nice prose if you ask me.  

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I disagree. He is saying he doesn't understand their plan for building.  But they spent capital to get their QB and their leader of the D; two young guys who could be fixtures for years.  How is that not a plan for building?

 

Exactly my point. It's about the expenditure of draft capital with too many trade ups especially for a LB.  They better be home runs given the price paid as we all hope they turn out to be.  It's a legit question to raise. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Exactly my point. It's about the expenditure of draft capital with too many trade ups especially for a LB.  They better be home runs given the price paid as we all hope they turn out to be.  It's a legit question to raise. 

Well of course they have to hit.  That goes without saying for any franchise.

 

Their building plan is multiyear.  Got two key pieces this year, got a LT and CB last year.  Some other starters/depth guys. With 10 picks and a boatload of cash next year they have to get more linemen and a good WR.

 

They have a plan.  How well they execute will determine their future and that of the team.

[Batman1876]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Exactly my point. It's about the expenditure of draft capital with too many trade ups especially for a LB.  They better be home runs given the price paid as we all hope they turn out to be.  It's a legit question to raise. 

We got a fifth back in that trade, do you think that dropping from the 3rd to a 5th is such a huge give up? Especially given that they were able to get one of the top defenders on their board.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Well of course they have to hit.  That goes without saying for any franchise.

 

Their building plan is multiyear.  Got two key pieces this year, got a LT and CB last year.  Some other starters/depth guys. With 10 picks and a boatload of cash next year they have to get more linemen and a good WR.

 

They have a plan.  How well they execute will determine their future and that of the team.

 

Of course they do, but I think it's okay to raise questions along the way. It's part of what's done here.

[stony]

3 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

We got a fifth back in that trade, do you think that dropping from the 3rd to a 5th is such a huge give up? Especially given that they were able to get one of the top defenders on their board.

For consistent starters...

 

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

 

5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)

 

HUGE difference.  

Edited September 14, 2018 by stony

[Batman1876]

7 minutes ago, stony said:

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

 

5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)

 

HUGE difference.  

What are the percentages? Either way we picked a DB so we dropped from a 24% to a 17% so a 7% difference. Seems small to me. Especially since Edmunds was a top 10 talent. 

 

Curious us where your stats i from, I don’t doubt them I just want to look at them more.  

Edited September 14, 2018 by Batman1876

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Of course they do, but I think it's okay to raise questions along the way. It's part of what's done here.

Absolutely

[Billsflyer12]

47 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Would you not say getting two guys you see as your leaders for years on both sides of the ball is a good start at rebuilding?

They didn’t have to use that capital.  They could have gotten similar or better players, along with others to get the rebuilding started.  They could have gotten several QB for less or even no capital.  They gave up capital to get Allen, Edmunds and Harrison, along with giving up capital to get Zay and gave up Dareus to get Wyatt Teller.

 

With a bad roster, with tons of holes, the foundation of this rebuild was way to expensive IMHO.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Billsflyer12

[Boatdrinks]

27 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Well of course they have to hit.  That goes without saying for any franchise.

 

Their building plan is multiyear.  Got two key pieces this year, got a LT and CB last year.  Some other starters/depth guys. With 10 picks and a boatload of cash next year they have to get more linemen and a good WR.

 

They have a plan.  How well they execute will determine their future and that of the team.

There is a philosophy to drafting players. Some believe that more picks = a better chance that some of them pan out. If you spend multiple picks to get a certain player you are putting all of ypur drafting eggs in a single basket. Your odds of success decrease. Whether or not you subscribe to this philosophy would determine if you thought the Bills strategy was good or shortsighted.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Billsflyer12 said:

They didn’t have to use that capital.  They could have gotten similar or better players, along with others to get the rebuilding started.  They could have gotten several QB for less or even no capital.  They gave up capital to get Allen, Edmunds and Harrison, along with giving up capital to get Zay and gave up Dareus to get Wyatt Teller.

 

With a bad roster, with tons of holes, the foundation of this rebuild was way to expensive IMHO.

Let's take QB as I think everyone agrees that is pivotal.  They saw a guy they felt could be the guy for years to come.  That costs draft capital.  So when you say they could have gotten other QBs for less or no capital who? Jackson perhaps, and if you feel Jackson has similar or better potential then you'd make that argument.

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

There is a philosophy to drafting players. Some believe that more picks = a better chance that some of them pan out. If you spend multiple picks to get a certain player you are putting all of ypur drafting eggs in a single basket. Your odds of success decrease. Whether or not you subscribe to this philosophy would determine if you thought the Bills strategy was good or shortsighted.

This past year they were clear they wanted to get their QB.  And they did.  And it cost them some capital.  Then they had an opportunity to get a guy they feel can anchor their D and spent an extra pick there.  They get those two right the rebuilding is off to a good start. If it doesn't Beane will make an excellent scout somewhere and McD will coach DBs for a while.

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Let's take QB as I think everyone agrees that is pivotal.  They saw a guy they felt could be the guy for years to come.  That costs draft capital.  So when you say they could have gotten other QBs for less or no capital who? Jackson perhaps, and if you feel Jackson has similar or better potential then you'd make that argument.

This past year they were clear they wanted to get their QB.  And they did.  And it cost them some capital.  Then they had an opportunity to get a guy they feel can anchor their D and spent an extra pick there.  They get those two right the rebuilding is off to a good start. If it doesn't Beane will make an excellent scout somewhere and McD will coach DBs for a while.

I’m aware of what the Bills did. It’s just that not everyone agrees with their choices. Perhaps the writers opinion would be different if they had drafted Rosen ( a more polished prospect) or not spent as much and drafted Edmunds, then moved up slightly to draft Jackson. Time will tell. If Allen is a stud, no one will care what was given up to draft him. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

I’m aware of what the Bills did. It’s just that not everyone agrees with their choices. Perhaps the writers opinion would be different if they had drafted Rosen ( a more polished prospect) or not spent as much and drafted Edmunds, then moved up slightly to draft Jackson. Time will tell. If Allen is a stud, no one will care what was given up to draft him. 

Yep.  I was a Rosen guy myself.  I am happy with what I've seen from Allen though.

[PromoTheRobot]

Writers have to write. They say stuff. When right they brag. When wrong it's what column?

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

No idea why Coach McDermott gave Peterman that second start

Why wouldn't he?   AJ had a poor outing in pre-season game2.  Josh had a poor outing in game3.  Only QB who performed consistently across the four games including the one Nate started was Nate.   Argument could have been made to keep AJ instead of Peterman...But when two players show the same set of cards, the regime is going to keep the guy they drafted and get something in return for the other guy.   

 

What the Bills failed to see that both Nate and AJ couldn't go above a certain level and should have gone out and got another Veteran QB.

[John in Jax]

The writer's opinion is right on the mark, as many in this forum have also expressed very similar thoughts over the past week (including me). The Pegulas are in over their heads, and it's rather obvious. Sad but true. Yeah, they kept the team in Buffalo, and that's great, but other than that, it's a dumpster fire.