Unless They Are 110% Sold on Allen, Bills Should Draft Another QB in 2019

[ddaryl]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Maybe you aren't, but the decision makers by the names of Beane and McDermott will be. 

 

Then They're idiots, and as of game 1 of  season 2 they are proving to be bumbling.

 

but you nor I have a clue on what they will do, and we do not know what Allen will be at the end of the year.. If things are ugly by December and the QB play is a disaster do we really avoid the biggest positon on the field and go back to being the pathetic no QB Bills backing into the last wild card slot or worse.

 

Until Allen proves without a single doubt then their is huge questions that need to be answered. 

 

I'll move on now

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

The good QBs came out last year. Maybe one will be worth a top 10 pick if some of the underclassmen declare, but it seems unlikely.

 

 

If that the case and there is no QB worth the top 10 then that will determine who we pick just the same....  I did mention the need for a top QB prospect with upside which I meant a coveted top 10 arm available at our pick

[VW82]

I agree OP. I would never normally say that but McBeane have put Allen (and themselves) in such a tough spot that depending how the season plays out they may have no choice.

 

If they'd just brought him along slowly and waited until second half of the year to start him, no one would be calling for his head in 2018. But as it stands, Allen is going to have 15 games to show he's the man (or not). That's more than enough time. If he doesn't show significant progress then I think you move on from him. They may even have to bench him part way through the season if it gets ugly enough, and that almost never works out for the QB. He's just so raw, who knows how this will go.

 

All we can do is hope Allen overcomes this impossibly bad spot he's been put in. 

Edited September 13, 2018 by VW82

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

If that the case and there is no QB worth the top 10 then that will determine who we pick just the same....  I did mention the need for a top QB prospect with upside which I meant a coveted top 10 arm available at our pick

There isn't a QB worth the pick in this crop. It's okay. This year you want to grab an elite pass rusher with your top 10 pick.

[ddaryl]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

There isn't a QB worth the pick in this crop. It's okay. This year you want to grab an elite pass rusher with your top 10 pick.

 

You feel this is the case but things can change dramatically regarding QB...  I'll wait for end of season to make that determination.

 

the pass rushing is supposed to be very deep. Therefore can be had later if need be, but even those rankings can change by seasons end. 

 

The QB trumps every other position 10x's over (IMO) so if a QB is ranked high enough and Allen stinks it up some or has a horrible injury then we go QB top 10. 

 

There are lots of unanswered questions to be played out before anything we are talking about is even really debatable.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, ddaryl said:

 

You feel this is the case but things can change dramatically regarding QB...  I'll wait for end of season to make that determination.

 

the pass rushing is supposed to be very deep. Therefore can be had later if need be, but even those rankings can change by seasons end. 

 

The QB trumps every other position 10x's over (IMO) so if a QB is ranked high enough and Allen stinks it up some or has a horrible injury then we go QB top 10. 

 

There are lots of unanswered questions to be played out before anything we are talking about is even really debatable.

A lot can change but guys don’t come out of nowhere because teams scout a year ahead. Last year’s class was supposed to be great and we saw 5 go in the 1st round. This year, Justin Herbert seems to be the guy with Stidham and Lock behind him. I don’t think that any will grade out as high as last years 1st 3 or 4. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

You feel this is the case but things can change dramatically regarding QB...  I'll wait for end of season to make that determination.

 

the pass rushing is supposed to be very deep. Therefore can be had later if need be, but even those rankings can change by seasons end. 

 

The QB trumps every other position 10x's over (IMO) so if a QB is ranked high enough and Allen stinks it up some or has a horrible injury then we go QB top 10. 

 

There are lots of unanswered questions to be played out before anything we are talking about is even really debatable.

I'm sure there will be an artificially inflated Gabbert type guy like Finley or Lock. I don't think pass rusher is incredibly deep though, I just think it's very topheavy.

[ddaryl]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

A lot can change but guys don’t come out of nowhere because teams scout a year ahead. Last year’s class was supposed to be great and we saw 5 go in the 1st round. This year, Justin Herbert seems to be the guy with Stidham and Lock behind him. I don’t think that any will grade out as high as last years 1st 3 or 4. 

 

 

Yes and no... Could be true. I just won't make that assessment till the offseason myself till its all played out

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I'm sure there will be an artificially inflated Gabbert type guy like Finley or Lock. I don't think pass rusher is incredibly deep though, I just think it's very topheavy.

 

If our scouts identify a QB they feel has great potential then that is all that mattes. Allen was an inflated guy by most every standard

[Alphadawg7]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

You’re conveniently leaving 1 piece out of thread equation.  What helped Goff the most was the guy calling the plays.  The Rams most important hire was Sean McVay.  Were not going to get a coaching change in Buffalo and probably not even an OC change anything soon.

 

Im not worried, I like McD.  And no, the biggest change to their success was the complete overhaul of what was the worst OL in football the year before and adding REAL WR's too.  I love McVay, and not downplaying him, but doesn't matter who the coach is if the OL cant block and WR's cant get open or catch.  So I disagree McVay is what helped him the "most"...impact, absolutely, but OL and WR massive overhaul in one season was more important to Goff because it also allowed Gurley to bounce back too that takes pressure off Goff and keeps D honest.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

Yes and no... Could be true. I just won't make that assessment till the offseason myself till its all played out

 

If our scouts identify a QB they feel has great potential then that is all that mattes. Allen was an inflated guy by most every standard

This is most certainly arrogant, but at this point I trust my QB evaluations more than the Bills' FO.

[ddaryl]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

This is most certainly arrogant, but at this point I trust my QB evaluations more than the Bills' FO.

 

 

By February I will have my own opinions just don't follow college enough to have that opinion right now

 

I think they did well with Allen, based off preseason.. but Peterman looked like a stud in preseason too. I have hopes for Allen but they seemed to butcher the rest of the team and that is puzzling

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, ddaryl said:

 

 

By February I will have my own opinions just don't follow college enough to have that opinion right now

 

I think they did well with Allen, based off preseason.. but Peterman looked like a stud in preseason too. I have hopes for Allen but they seemed to butcher the rest of the team and that is puzzling

 

He did? It was a total mirage with the sames holes in his game that he's always had.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, ddaryl said:

By February I will have my own opinions just don't follow college enough to have that opinion right now

 

I think they did well with Allen, based off preseason.. but Peterman looked like a stud in preseason too. I have hopes for Allen but they seemed to butcher the rest of the team and that is puzzling

Allen has definitely flashed some promise. Unfortunately I just think he's going to need some time before anyone has a good grasp on how good he is.

[ddaryl]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He did? It was a total mirage with the sames holes in his game that he's always had.

 

He completed close to 80% and had a QBR somewhere near 127.. So yes he clearly looked solid in preseason. 

 

I made many references that I still worried about his arm, but there was 0 doubts who had the best preseason at QB for the Bills...

 

you're in a combative mood today

[DuckyBoys]

Were talking about this after he's played less than two quarters of regular season fb.  Wow just wow

[transplantbillsfan]

We'll be drafting 1 or 2 QBs no matter what.

 

We need a backup.

 

As for drafting a QB with our 1st pick--which will NOT be #1 overall--

 

no

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, ddaryl said:

 

He completed close to 80% and had a QBR somewhere near 127.. So yes he clearly looked solid in preseason. 

 

I made many references that I still worried about his arm, but there was 0 doubts who had the best preseason at QB for the Bills...

 

you're in a combative mood today

 

Those stats mean nothing once the regular season arrives and as I have stated before he did his damage in preseason mostly against no pressure against players who are now watching football on Sundays just like we do.   Meanwhile his lack of physical talent and bad pre-snap determinations of where to go with the ball were still there.  Combative?  I'm merely in a discussion where we happen to disagree.

[Kirby Jackson]

17 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

Yes and no... Could be true. I just won't make that assessment till the offseason myself till its all played out

 

If our scouts identify a QB they feel has great potential then that is all that mattes. Allen was an inflated guy by most every standard

Again, things are always subject to change but before the last draft the teams already have the majority of their scouting done for the following year. It’s pretty rare that a guy comes out of nowhere. In fact, it’s much more normal for a guy to regress with more tape (Barkley, Clausen, Geno, etc...). These teams aren’t learning about these guys now. 32 teams already have an opinion on Herbert vs. Stidham. That can change some but there isn’t going to be some guy come out of nowhere that ends up in round 1. 

[DasNootz]

 For better or worse, we are married to Josh Allen at this point (I think for the better). We will be in a highly desirable position come draft time next spring. If the season plays out as many predict, we will have the opportunity to trade back and build this team for years to come and fill many holes through free agency.  

 

We knew this would be a rebuilding year - not a retooling year.  Now that “rebuilding” has shown its ugly head,everyone forgets that this is what we knew we had all along... Two weeks of preseason and typical Bills marketing made us throw caution aside, and we drank it up.

[ddaryl]

24 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Those stats mean nothing once the regular season arrives and as I have stated before he did his damage in preseason mostly against no pressure against players who are now watching football on Sundays just like we do.   Meanwhile his lack of physical talent and bad pre-snap determinations of where to go with the ball were still there.  Combative?  I'm merely in a discussion where we happen to disagree.

 

doesn't change the facts.. He looked the best in preseason which it was always best man wins the job. Stats or no stats he completed passes and moved the team down the field consistently in preseason. What else could you probably be looking for in an open competition QB battle. All 3 QB's made similar miss judgements 

 

your initial post was a bit sour. As you have told me to prepare to be upset which wasn't really a discussion it was simply you telling me I am wrong and to go pfffft myself !!!!

 

The whole Perterdude things is hard to argue. I even thought Peterdude would be cut before week 1 before training camp, but No other Bills QB looked better in preseason.. Maybe Allen develops more but in preseason there was no doubt. All 3 made plenty of errors but regardless of what you feel about stats Peterman clearly won the open competition.. Obviously it was a mirage but mirages are still real until the truth is revealed. Its hard to fake it with the solid performances he put up... but that's the scary part

Edited September 13, 2018 by ddaryl

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, ddaryl said:

 

doesn't change the facts.. He looked the best in preseason which it was always best man wins the job. Stats or no stats he completed passes and moved the team down the field consistently in preseason. What else could you probably be looking for in an open competition QB battle. All 3 QB's made similar miss judgements 

 

your initial post was a bit sour. As you have told me to prepare to be disappointed once which wasn't really a discussion it was simply you telling me I am wrong ant to go pfffft myself !!!!

 

The whole Perterdude things is hard to argue. I even thought Peterdude would be cut before week 1 before training camp, but No other Bills QB looked better in preseason.. Maybe Allen develops more but in preseason there was no doubt. All 3 made plenty of errors but regardless of what you feel about stats Peterman clearly won the open competition.. Obviously it was a mirage but mirages are still real until the truth is revealed. Its hard to fake it with the solid performances he put up... but that's the scary part

 

Not the case, it's a realization that the current regime paid a big price to get Allen and they are going to be patient with him as they knew very well that he wasn't a finished product.  Besides that they have not surrounded him with a competent OL and enough reliable weapons in the receiving corps.  You expecting them to draft another QB with a high draft choice will lead to you being disappointed because the evaluation of Allen won't be done after this season and he's definitely their guy.   

[ddaryl]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Not the case, it's a realization that the current regime paid a big price to get Allen and they are going to be patient with him as they knew very well that he wasn't a finished product.  Besides that they have not surrounded him with a competent OL and enough reliable weapons in the receiving corps.  You expecting them to draft another QB with a high draft choice will lead to you being disappointed because the evaluation of Allen won't be done after this season and he's definitely their guy.   

 

 

I believe the all 22 showed WR's open.

 

If our QB can't find them then yes I expect to double down on a QB... you are less than nothing in this league without consistent dependable solid QB play. Now if Allen starts throwing to the open guys and they keep dropping passes that's a different discussion.. But I expect our QB to be able to identify D, make the right decision and deal with the onslaught because the great ones do, which forced D's to be more honest... Allen has to be capable of beating the 8 in a box onslaught if he is not then there is no reason to be patient, he'll never get it, and we've walked this walk a dozen times in the last 20 years.

 

The current regime paid a price to get a top QB.. They can be patient with him and he can compete with another QB with equal or greater ceiling. A 2nd solid QB asset is never wasted IMO. Doesn't mean there will be one worth taking in the top 10 and I am not preaching over reaching, but I would not rest on my QB laurels as this will get you fired the fastest. Fans want excitement and they want it mostly at the QB position. So it is up to Allen alone to keep this from being a possibility.

 

If we stink it up Allen looks like crap and we draft a pass rusher when there is a highly ranked QB sitting there then yes I will be pissed off. I want great QB play and I want nothing else but constant and total commitment to finding that QB and to not rest until they do. 

 

The game of football is quite boring without a capable QB. I'm sick and tired of Bills football....

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

I believe the all 22 showed WR's open.

 

If our QB can't find them then yes I expect to double down on a QB... you are less than nothing in this league without consistent dependable solid QB play. Now if Allen starts throwing to the open guys and they keep dropping passes that's a different discussion.. But I expect our QB to be able to identify D, make the right decision and deal with the onslaught because the great ones do, which forced D's to be more honest... Allen has to be capable of beating the 8 in a box onslaught if he is not then there is no reason to be patient, he'll never get it, and we've walked this walk a dozen times in the last 20 years.

 

The current regime paid a price to get a top QB.. They can be patient with him and he can compete with another QB with equal or greater ceiling. A 2nd solid QB asset is never wasted IMO. Doesn't mean there will be one worth taking in the top 10 and I am not preaching over reaching, but I would not rest on my QB laurels as this will get you fired the fastest. Fans want excitement and they want it mostly at the QB position. So it is up to Allen alone to keep this from being a possibility.

 

If we stink it up Allen looks like crap and we draft a pass rusher when there is a highly ranked QB sitting there then yes I will be pissed off. I want great QB play and I want nothing else but constant and total commitment to finding that QB and to not rest until they do. 

 

The game of football is quite boring without a capable QB. I'm sick and tired of Bills football....

This is the QB through AT LEAST 2019. If he is a total failure like Paxton Lynch they will look for a guy after next season. They aren’t considering a guy next year though. There’s a zero percent chance of it. They spent 2 years working to get Allen. Now we will see what he can do with trash. Next year we will see what he can do with NFL players around him. 15 months from now we will have an idea as to Allen’s NFL future.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, ddaryl said:

 

 

I believe the all 22 showed WR's open.

 

If our QB can't find them then yes I expect to double down on a QB... you are less than nothing in this league without consistent dependable solid QB play. Now if Allen starts throwing to the open guys and they keep dropping passes that's a different discussion.. But I expect our QB to be able to identify D, make the right decision and deal with the onslaught because the great ones do, which forced D's to be more honest... Allen has to be capable of beating the 8 in a box onslaught if he is not then there is no reason to be patient, he'll never get it, and we've walked this walk a dozen times in the last 20 years.

 

The current regime paid a price to get a top QB.. They can be patient with him and he can compete with another QB with equal or greater ceiling. A 2nd solid QB asset is never wasted IMO. Doesn't mean there will be one worth taking in the top 10 and I am not preaching over reaching, but I would not rest on my QB laurels as this will get you fired the fastest. Fans want excitement and they want it mostly at the QB position. So it is up to Allen alone to keep this from being a possibility.

 

If we stink it up Allen looks like crap and we draft a pass rusher when there is a highly ranked QB sitting there then yes I will be pissed off. I want great QB play and I want nothing else but constant and total commitment to finding that QB and to not rest until they do. 

 

The game of football is quite boring without a capable QB. I'm sick and tired of Bills football....

 

They won't have enough time or reps to develop two young QBs.   None of this is realistic or makes any sense from a roster building perspective and it's far better to build a complementary supporting cast around Allen to put him in the best possible position to succeed moving forward with ten draft choices and over $90M in cap to spend.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

44 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Not the case, it's a realization that the current regime paid a big price to get Allen and they are going to be patient with him as they knew very well that he wasn't a finished product.  Besides that they have not surrounded him with a competent OL and enough reliable weapons in the receiving corps.  You expecting them to draft another QB with a high draft choice will lead to you being disappointed because the evaluation of Allen won't be done after this season and he's definitely their guy.   

 

I agree with everything you've said here. I don't think there's any scenario besides a career ending injury that would make them consider QB with next years first. BUT WHAT IF Allen is as bad as Peterman for 15 straight weeks? I don't think that will happen, I hope Josh will succeed, but in that scenario I think it would be smart to take  a QB. Now whether the Bills actually would is another question.

[26CornerBlitz]

17 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

I agree with everything you've said here. I don't think there's any scenario besides a career ending injury that would make them consider QB with next years first. BUT WHAT IF Allen is as bad as Peterman for 15 straight weeks? I don't think that will happen, I hope Josh will succeed, but in that scenario I think it would be smart to take  a QB. Now whether the Bills actually would is another question.

 

He's obviously better than Peterman from a physical perspective and even at this early stage in his young career shows more poise with better decision making and play making ability when things break down as they often will with the current offensive talent he's playing with.  

Edited September 13, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Midwest1981]

Unless Josh Allen produces 15 games as abominable as Nathan Peterman produced in his Chargers and Ravens starts- and maybe not even then- is this anything other than anti-Allen sentiment coached as some sort of good idea that "smart" teams do.

 

And let's abandon the silly notion, "Well, you can always just trade Allen to another team for a haul!"  Because teams aren't at all wary of players whose teams give up on them after one season despite investing a 1st & two 2nd's, plus a good LT, to trade up for and are absolutely willing to part with a king's ransom.

 

Allen may well bust but the Bills haven't provided him the context or the environment to fairly or accurately judge him.  A) 4/5th's of our offensive line shouldn't be starting and in time will not be, B) we also happen to own the league's worst collection of pass-receiving options (reminiscent of the Bears last year, which prompted substantial activity, like ours will too), and C) even the most ardent Allen supporters admitted that while he had awe-inspiring talent he still has a lot to learn and develop... and then we keep two QB's and the only other one literally produces the worst QB rating in any NFL player's first two career starts.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Midwest1981

[ColoradoBills]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:02 AM, CuddyDark said:

They should draft one 2nd-7th round. They'll have to because they need a backup. Unless they sign a vet.

 

Targeting a 3-4 round QB would be ideal.

If Peterman is the backup next year.....................................

I don't even want to think about it.

[LSHMEAB]

I think the basis for a thread like this is that many of us believe Allen was a terrible pick. There's nothing in his football background to suggest he's ever going to be an elite quarterback. My personal opinion is that he won't even be a good one. When you hold that belief, you probably don't fully consider how tied this regime is to the guy. There will almost certainly be no second chances at QB for McBeane. Would LOVE to see JA prove me wrong.

 

Time will tell. 

[Mojo44]

The only thing that doesn’t make the OP crazy is the rookie salary cap. Even then, the event is very unlikely. First of all the bills would have to have a naturally high draft pick or have an easy path to getting one without giving up much. More importantly, for this to occur there has to be a generational prospect available. I don’t follow college football that closely. But I haven’t heard of any such prospect. 

 

 If Allen truly bombs out to the point where it is clear by the end of the season that the Bills made a big mistake. They would likely seek out a somewhat if not moreso established free-agent quarterback. It’s going to be interesting!