scribo Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Looked at the past several QBs to be inducted in the Hall of Fame. Stunning how rough many started off in their development. The point is that one does not need to sit on the bench, waiting for a decent team be built around him, to start developing under fire. Brett Favre - Drafted by Atlanta, his first pass in an NFL regular season game resulted in an interception returned for a touchdown. He was 1 for 4 with 0 TDs, 2 INTs and sacked once. Once he got to Green Bay, the Packers were blown out in his first game. He had an up and down season that ended at .500. Troy Aikman - In his first regular season game (Week 1, 1989), the future Super Bowl MVP went 17 of 35 with no TDs, two INTs, sacked twice and a passer rating of 40.2. He got beat around all season. He even missed five games with a broken finger. He finished the season with nine touchdowns against 18 interceptions while averaging just 5.9 yards per pass. And the Cowboys finished 1-15. John Elway - He lit it up in his first action, a Week 1 start in 1983. He went 1 of 8 for 14 yards, 0 TDs, a interception, four sacks and a passer rating of 0. He didn't finish the game because of an elbow injury. He did finish his second start, going 9 of 21 for 106 yards, 0 TDs and three sacks. His rookie season saw a 7:14 TD-to-INT ratio and 28 sacks in 11 games. And he had a losing record. Peyton Manning - His Week 1 was in 1998; 21 of 37 with one touchdown, three interceptions, four sacks and a passer rating of 58.6. He led the Colts to a stellar 3-13 record. Steve Young won three of his first 19 games with the Bucs. He did just fine once traded, of course, but getting beat down with growing up didn't hurt his long-term career. Of course, our own Bills finished 4-12 with Jim Kelly in his rookie year. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Thanks for putting it all in perspective. The point is: our success will take time. Instant gratification be damned. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Costa Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman1876 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I was impressed with how calm Allen was (especially compared to Peterman who seemed to be calling the crisis hotline midplay). Hes a big tough kid who appeared calm and is used to playing games where there is more talent on the other side of the ball than there is around him. I think he could start, it will not look good but if he can learn from it we'll know a lot more about who he is and if he can play. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: Thanks for putting it all in perspective. The point is: our success will take time. Instant gratification be damned. if success happens, this will be the reality of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, scribo said: Looked at the past several QBs to be inducted in the Hall of Fame. Stunning how rough many started off in their development. The point is that one does not need to sit on the bench, waiting for a decent team be built around him, to start developing under fire. Brett Favre - Drafted by Atlanta, his first pass in an NFL regular season game resulted in an interception returned for a touchdown. He was 1 for 4 with 0 TDs, 2 INTs and sacked once. Once he got to Green Bay, the Packers were blown out in his first game. He had an up and down season that ended at .500. Troy Aikman - In his first regular season game (Week 1, 1989), the future Super Bowl MVP went 17 of 35 with no TDs, two INTs, sacked twice and a passer rating of 40.2. He got beat around all season. He even missed five games with a broken finger. He finished the season with nine touchdowns against 18 interceptions while averaging just 5.9 yards per pass. And the Cowboys finished 1-15. John Elway - He lit it up in his first action, a Week 1 start in 1983. He went 1 of 8 for 14 yards, 0 TDs, a interception, four sacks and a passer rating of 0. He didn't finish the game because of an elbow injury. He did finish his second start, going 9 of 21 for 106 yards, 0 TDs and three sacks. His rookie season saw a 7:14 TD-to-INT ratio and 28 sacks in 11 games. And he had a losing record. Peyton Manning - His Week 1 was in 1998; 21 of 37 with one touchdown, three interceptions, four sacks and a passer rating of 58.6. He led the Colts to a stellar 3-13 record. Steve Young won three of his first 19 games with the Bucs. He did just fine once traded, of course, but getting beat down with growing up didn't hurt his long-term career. Of course, our own Bills finished 4-12 with Jim Kelly in his rookie year. back then the NFL had a RUNNING GAME that ate up at the MAJORITY of the plays on O today the running game is diminished and it's all on the QB 75%+ every game this is total murder to a QB that isn't ready 20 years ago you would develop a QB by handing off to Shady the first two downs and a bogus incomplete pass on 3rd down and nobody would care 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, teef said: if success happens, this will be the reality of it. Yes. Probably best to take the "sit back and enjoy the progress approach" this season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Allen should start week two. Peterman should never get another snap. It really is as easy as that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Good is good. And players that are good usually start showing they're good right away. Yes, Drew Brees came on like wild fire back in 2003/2004, or Alex Smith got better throughout his career. But most QBs start to show early on whether they have it or they don't. Bills fans made the same excuses about Trent Edwards for years - the line isn't good enough, the WRs aren't good enough, Jauron is telling him not to throw interceptions. In the end he never resurfaced in the NFL because he sucked. Same with JP Losman or EJ Manuel. We missed on Derek Carr and Teddy Bridgewater because in 2014 our Front Office was still trying to rescue EJ Manuel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tisker A Tasker Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: Thanks for putting it all in perspective. The point is: our success will take time. Instant gratification be damned. I thought we'd have to endure growing pains at quarterback. I just didn't realize how painful the rest of the team would be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I read the title and thought it was a reference to the reported alcohol affinities of several previous great QB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I read the title and thought it was a reference to the reported alcohol affinities of several previous great QB Layne Kilmer Namath Snake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I'm just going to hope Josh Allen survives the season. Got my fingers crossed. One thing I personally will do is give him a COMPLETE PASS as to his total performance. I am not going to judge his season due to the supporting cast the Bills are fielding on offense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, Batman1876 said: I was impressed with how calm Allen was (especially compared to Peterman who seemed to be calling the crisis hotline midplay). Hes a big tough kid who appeared calm and is used to playing games where there is more talent on the other side of the ball than there is around him. I think he could start, it will not look good but if he can learn from it we'll know a lot more about who he is and if he can play. Totally agree. JA's pocket presence is very good. Let him make mistakes because that's how he'll learn. And for Gods sake McB, get him better OL/WR's than this rag tag group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, row_33 said: back then the NFL had a RUNNING GAME that ate up at the MAJORITY of the plays on O today the running game is diminished and it's all on the QB 75%+ every game this is total murder to a QB that isn't ready The QBs I mentioned didn't have much of a rushing attack to lean on in their rookie seasons. I don't see stats to back up your claim that the QBs I used as examples had it easy because of a different type of game back then. Favre - Their star back was Vince Workman, who rushed 159 times for 631 yards. Troy - Their top guy was Paul Palmer, who rushed 112 times for 446 yards on the season. Elway - Sammy Winder, 196 for 757 Manning - OK, he had Marshall Faulk, who went 324 for 1,319 yards. But Manning was the second leading rusher on the team with 62 yards. Young - James Wilder, 365 for 1,300. Young was second on that team with 233 yards. Kelly - Greg Bell with 223 carries for 883 yards. Edited September 10, 2018 by scribo Fixed missing numeral 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Below is a chart of listing a subset of 1st round QBs first two years in the league, and the amount of times they were sacked in their so called "developmental years" (2004-2013.) I also included David Carr because he has become the poster boy for the argument "Quarterbacks who get hit a lot dont succeed." Note, I did not include quarterbacks drafted since 2014 as I think it's too early to say they were a success or not. I have always been of the mind that QBs don't necessarily "develop" just get somewhat better from their baseline coming out of college. Personally feel like the good ones were already destined to be good the second they stepped on the field, regardless of how many times they got hit, unless said hit ended their career completely. Player GMS Sack Sack Per Game David Carr 27 91 3.37037037 Ryan Tannehill 32 93 2.90625 Alex Smith 23 64 2.782608696 Brandon Weeden 20 55 2.75 Jake Locker 11 30 2.727272727 Sam Bradford 26 70 2.692307692 Aaron Rodgers 32 84 2.625 Blaine Gabbert 24 62 2.583333333 EJ Manuel 16 40 2.5 Robert Griffin III 28 68 2.428571429 Christian Ponder 26 62 2.384615385 Andrew Luck 32 73 2.28125 Cam Newton 32 71 2.21875 Matthew Stafford 13 28 2.153846154 Joe Flacco 32 68 2.125 Ben Roethlisberger 25 53 2.12 Eli Manning 23 41 1.782608696 Mark Sanchez 31 53 1.709677419 Philip Rivers 18 30 1.666666667 Jason Campbell 20 28 1.4 Matt Ryan 30 36 1.2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 26 minutes ago, row_33 said: back then the NFL had a RUNNING GAME that ate up at the MAJORITY of the plays on O today the running game is diminished and it's all on the QB 75%+ every game this is total murder to a QB that isn't ready 20 years ago you would develop a QB by handing off to Shady the first two downs and a bogus incomplete pass on 3rd down and nobody would care Trubisky looked pretty damn good last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, scribo said: The QBs I mentioned didn't have much of a rushing attack to lean on in their rookie seasons. I don't see stats to back up your claim that the QBs I used as examples had it easy because of a different type of game back then. Favre - Their star back was Vince Workman, who rushed 159 times for 631 yards. Troy - Their top guy was Paul Palmer, who rushed 112 times for 446 yards on the season. Elway - Sammy Winder, 196 for 757 Manning - OK, he had Marshall Faulk, who went 324 for 1,319 yards. But Manning was the second leading rusher on the team with 62 yards. Young - James Wilder, 65 for 1,300. Young was second on that team with 233 yards. Kelly - Greg Bell with 223 carries for 883 yards. For those years the NFL ran the ball the majority of times with intent to win on the ground from the first series this also caused the D to have to try to balance a running/passing attack all game long in 2018 they are don't worry about the run, it isn't going to be a major feature of a pro football team 2018 puts ten times the exposure on a QB who doesn't have his game developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, row_33 said: For those years the NFL ran the ball the majority of times with intent to win on the ground from the first series this also caused the D to have to try to balance a running/passing attack all game long in 2018 they are don't worry about the run, it isn't going to be a major feature of a pro football team 2018 puts ten times the exposure on a QB who doesn't have his game developed. I don't disagree with that the mindset for the era some of those QBs played in. The stats I provided show that these QBs did not have teams then that were able to commit to the run. Surely a key to the poor win-loss records they each had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, scribo said: I don't disagree with that the mindset for the era some of those QBs played in. The stats I provided show that these QBs did not have teams then that were able to commit to the run. Surely a key to the poor win-loss records they each had. stats don't mean anything 20 years later for direct comparison in any sport Steve Young played almost 2 full seasons in the USFL before his "rookie" NFL season and sorry Peterman, YOU AREN"T MEASURING UP TO HALL OF FAME QBs..... the game has changed COMPLETELY since those QBs were in town.... sorry you missed it due to age or you've forgotten how it was back then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts