Judging Beane’s decisions so far

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 minutes ago, simpleman said:

All you seem to be able to contribute to a conversation are opinions and insults. How about contributing legitimate provable facts, I know a daunting task for certain people. I listed facts, and they spoke for themselves to people who have an ability to deal in reality, rather than pure faith and hope. And statements about who ran the draft in 2017 are not fact backed up by proof. Care to share statements from Pegula, Whaley or McDermott  to back up your unconfirmed assumptions? Or more crickets?

 

What's the point? You're not looking for facts. You're looking for someone to stroke your ego. That ain't gonna be me. Pound sand.

 

[blacklabel]

48 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

It would be less whining if they looked like they were actually doing any of what you state here. They seem disjointed from my perspective. They sign FAs who look lost or over their prime, at least in the preseason and on top of that they draft projections who could be stars or out of the league in 4 years. I believe we get to judge draft picks and signing of free agents real time? Or do we have to wait for some timeline in your head? When is it? 3 years? 5? Listen I love McDermott, have said it many times but I also said many times and believe Beane is a contract guy and not a scout. He's GM because McDermott wants him to be GM and not because he's earned it.

 

Yes, precisely, I have a draft prospect timeline "in my head" even though I really didn't touch on any of their picks aside from Allen. The 3-year timeline is common practice in the league. You really don't know what you have in a prospect until year three, that's what they say anyway. Clearly, some prospects show their hand one way or the other before that, but, regardless, I didn't come up with that criteria for judging prospects.

 

And what part of their plan are they not doing? They're doing exactly what they've said they would do from day one. We can make a list if that makes it easier.

 

They said...

-Any players not on board would be playing elsewhere. Check.

-They would get the cap situation under control, I won't say "check" because it's still in process but they unloaded several massive contracts given to players that were no longer worth the money they were getting.

-Find a franchise QB. Check. (Hey look at that, no "timeline in my head" on that one! Wow.)

-Build a team in their vision. Check. We can say "in progress" on this one too, if you wanna split hairs because teams are constantly building.

-Find the right players for their vision. Check. Or, again, another in progress type of endeavor but the core of their team is built around players with the same core values outline in their vision: Hard-working, team-first players more focused on helping their team win than focused on stats or personal achievements.

-Build team chemistry. Check. How many disorganized/disgruntled yet talented teams have we watched over the years? Plenty. One constant about those teams I always saw from current/former players, analysts, etc. was that they didn't seem "together" and they weren't playing for each other. Now, you have a team that considers themselves family and loves playing for each other. Lemme know the next time any other team gets fired up like they just won the big one after a journeyman backup RB/special teams guy takes a three-yard dump off and picks up a first down.

 

And they accomplish parts of these and other goals all while breaking a 17-year playoff drought. To me, I just don't see the need to nitpick and dissect every single move they make knowing how crazy the NFL can be. Not every move is a home-run, not every move is meant to be. Maybe that's what some people don't see... they see a signing of a player and if it's not a name they recognize or a position they feel is a position of need they're gonna find a way to discredit and criticize the move.

 

Again, I'll go back to the point of sustainability. This franchise has been the definition of discord and disorganization since 2000. Wade Phillips, Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey, Doug Marrone, Rex Ryan. Tom Donahoe, Marv Levy, Russ Brandon, Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley. What do all those guys have in common? All but two of them (Jauron & Whaley) saw three years or less in their positions. Just the fact that some people feel ready to move on from this regime because they haven't yet addressed every single issue with this team is beyond me. It's quite obvious that without sustainability at the top there is no sustainability or success to flow through the entire franchise. It's cliche at this point but these are the reasons why we constantly hear "process." Takes time. Let 'em work that's all I'm saying. If not them, then what's the alternative? People always seem so ready to dump everything and clean house but rarely present a decent alternative.

 

I mean, we can go on and provide many other examples that show just how different this regime is than past ones. In any business, there's going to be wrinkles to work out, of course. But, given the absolute sh*tshows that were Rex/Whaley and St. Douggie/Whaley, McBeane is a breath of fresh air. These guys are held in very high regard by the Pegulas so clearly they're doing something right. To your last point on Beane being here only because he's McDermott's bud, I think the Carolina Panthers organization would disagree as they willfully employed him for 19 seasons and had every intention on handing him the keys after Gettleman but he took a chance to come here and build this team. On top of that, the guy gets nothing but praise and respect from fellow GM's and execs. 

 

Process.

Edited September 3, 2018 by blacklabel

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

23 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

I mean, we can go on and provide many other examples that show just how different this regime is than past ones. In any business, there's going to be wrinkles to work out, of course. But, given the absolute sh*tshows that were Rex/Whaley and St. Douggie/Whaley, McBeane is a breath of fresh air. These guys are held in very high regard by the Pegulas so clearly they're doing something right. To your last point on Beane being here only because he's McDermott's bud, I think the Carolina Panthers organization would disagree as they willfully employed him for 19 seasons and had every intention on handing him the keys after Gettleman but he took a chance to come here and build this team. On top of that, the guy gets nothing but praise and respect from fellow GM's and execs. 

 

Not only that, but some of his moves were utterly brilliant. Take, for example, getting a third round pick for Tyrod Taylor when EVERYONE in the NFL knew we were cutting him. Another bright move? Getting a pick for Watkins, who they likely would have gotten nothing for just a year later. Smart.

 

Dude's a witch.

[Yeezus]

Building strictly thru the draft may sound nice on paper but its terribly difficult. 

 

lets see how many players from the 2018 draft class are here in 2 years. Bills are historically one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. 

[Sky Diver]

He stole Foster as a UDFA.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

If McDermott was making the picks he should continue to have the same success. This year he's drafted a bunch of projects. It actually looks more like a Modrak draft than a Colbert draft.

allen and that linebacker ?

3 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

What's the point? You're not looking for facts. You're looking for someone to stroke your ego. That ain't gonna be me. Pound sand.

 

 

1 hour ago, Yeezus said:

Building strictly thru the draft may sound nice on paper but its terribly difficult. 

 

lets see how many players from the 2018 draft class are here in 2 years. Bills are historically one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. 

and this is an issue for folks here

 it is okay to hit reset for fans !

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

It's funny, I've seen a lot of people saying that Beane inherited a team in "cap hell", but did we have any bad contracts besides Dareus when Beane took over? The next worst contract is probably Charles Clay, and he's still on the team! 

 

The rest of the dead cap is pretty much Beane trading players away (Glenn, Tyrod - note that we had an opt out for TT contract so it's solely on Beane) or injury (Wood). 

 

Beane gave up an awful lot of draft capital to get Allen and Edmunds. How he'll be graded as a GM will depend on how those guys pan out.

 

His FA signing have not been impressive so far. Trent Murphy looks like a bust (at least we have an out after this season) and Star looks like a disaster. Why pay 2nd tier DT money for a guy that's not even a difference maker? His ceiling looks like place holder/rotational starter. You can do a lot better for a $50,000,000 contract. 

 

 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, Yeezus said:

Building strictly thru the draft may sound nice on paper but its terribly difficult. 

 

lets see how many players from the 2018 draft class are here in 2 years. Bills are historically one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. 

It’s difficult, but it you want to be good for multiple years you need to build through the draft. 

 

Free agents should be to provide the finishing touches on the team, but the core from the team should be through draft. Just to expensive to do otherwise.

 

The only exception are teams like NE and GB. They can get away with some poor drafts because they have Brady and Rodgers to cover holes.

 

 

[Bills Pimpin']

10 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

 

Having 65 million and spending it wisely are two different things. To this point I can't say I trust Beane to make good signings. His free agents so far look like bad signing. That could change, we'll see.

Which free agent signings are you saying look bad? I hope you are not talking about any players that haven't played a real game yet. That would be ignorant.

[Batman1876]

44 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

It's funny, I've seen a lot of people saying that Beane inherited a team in "cap hell", but did we have any bad contracts besides Dareus when Beane took over? The next worst contract is probably Charles Clay, and he's still on the team! 

 

The rest of the dead cap is pretty much Beane trading players away (Glenn, Tyrod - note that we had an opt out for TT contract so it's solely on Beane) or injury (Wood). 

 

Beane gave up an awful lot of draft capital to get Allen and Edmunds. How he'll be graded as a GM will depend on how those guys pan out.

 

His FA signing have not been impressive so far. Trent Murphy looks like a bust (at least we have an out after this season) and Star looks like a disaster. Why pay 2nd tier DT money for a guy that's not even a difference maker? His ceiling looks like place holder/rotational starter. You can do a lot better for a $50,000,000 contract. 

 

 

80% of our dead cap is 4 players. Darius, Tyrod, Glenn and Wood. Darius was not worth his contact and was detrimental to keep around, I think it was worth the dead cap to get him out of town and get something in return. Cordy was often hurt and was replaceable, getting 2nd rd value for him was worthwhile. And Tyrod was not an option to stay here getting a 3rd for him was a good move. Without trading Tyrod and Cordy we would have had to trade both 1sts to get a QB. I think the cap loss for 1 year was well worth it. 

[Bills Pimpin']

58 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Beane gave up an awful lot of draft capital to get Allen and Edmunds. How he'll be graded as a GM will depend on how those guys pan out.

 

 

And Phillips. And Johnson. And Croom. And Foster. And Ray Ray. And Teller. And who he drafts next year (we have 10 picks at the moment) and who he drafts in 2020.

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Bills Pimpin'

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

On 9/2/2018 at 9:01 PM, Mango said:

 

Real question. With our lack of CB behind Tre, lack of pass rush, and bad LB corp. What will you think of the defense takes a step back after our “focus” on it this year? 

 

You say lack of pass rush, the season hasn't even started yet, if you're basing that from preseason most teams play a base vanilla defense trying not showing their hands  to the opponent in week 1. I will hold that thought of a lack of pass rush until some games have been played, we beefed up the DL with Phillips/Louteleilei and added Murphy at DE to go along with Tremaine Edmunds at LB and added Vontae davis at CB, I think it will take a bit for them to gel, that being said I think this defense will improve tremendously. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by BuffaloBillsGospel

[Aussie Joe]

4 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

It's funny, I've seen a lot of people saying that Beane inherited a team in "cap hell", but did we have any bad contracts besides Dareus when Beane took over? The next worst contract is probably Charles Clay, and he's still on the team! 

 

 

 

 

Clay is still on the team because his contract has been effectively guaranteed to now...

 

Even if they cut him next year ( the last year of his deal) there  will still be a $4.5Mil hit..

 

Also, how did Whales even approach "cap hell" to begin with when we haven't had a decent QB for 20 years?

5 hours ago, Yeezus said:

Building strictly thru the draft may sound nice on paper but its terribly difficult. 

 

lets see how many players from the 2018 draft class are here in 2 years. Bills are historically one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. 

 

What they have done "historically" dont mean jack...

 

Lets give the new regime another year or two and see how they go..

Edited September 4, 2018 by Aussie Joe

[Mango]

53 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

You say lack of pass rush, the season hasn't even started yet, if you're basing that from preseason most teams play a base vanilla defense trying not showing their hands  to the opponent in week 1. I will hold that thought of a lack of pass rush until some games have been played, we beefed up the DL with Phillips/Louteleilei and added Murphy at DE to go along with Tremaine Edmunds at LB and added Vontae davis at CB, I think it will take a bit for them to gel, that being said I think this defense will improve tremendously. 

 

We had issues rushing the passer last year. 

 

Phillips is a back up and isn’t ready. 

 

Star is just there to eat space. He’s also not terribly good. 

 

Tremeaine Edmunds isn’t ready

 

Vontae is bad. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

10 hours ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

And Phillips. And Johnson. And Croom. And Foster. And Ray Ray. And Teller. And who he drafts next year (we have 10 picks at the moment) and who he drafts in 2020.

 

 

 

What's more important: drafting a guy that makes the roster in the 5th round, or hitting on the #7 overall pick after trading up for a QB? 

 

Unless one of those later picks turns into an All-Pro they are pretty much irrelevant in terms of how I'll be grading Beane. 

[oldmanfan]

He has focused on getting the two most important positions on the team:  QB and MLB.  Both these kids have the potential to be long time fixtures on the Bills.  Time will tell.

 

Otherwise, I think we now have a combination of HC and GM that are in synch, and that have a firm idea of how they intend to build a team that will be consistently good.  To do that, they have moved out some guys with large salaries they felt would not fit the idea they have for a team.  Some I agree with (such as Dareus), others I didn't (such as Watkins).  Beane and McD have hit on some FAs and missed on others, similar to what most GMs do.

 

The area I would criticize is that he has not focused more attention up front.  It was not his fault of course that Wood came up with a career ending injury, or that Richie went off the rails (although one could kind of see that coming).  But as one who has always felt you win football games up front, I am disappointed more effort has not been used to build the O line especially, and the D line (at DE specifically). 

 

I think you have to give Beane and McD a number of years to actually let their plan work or not work.  To me the constant turnover in team management since 2000 has been responsible for the long period of failure.  Let them get the players they feel they need to work their plan, and then see if their plan works.  GIve them 5 years at least.

[Bills Pimpin']

20 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

 

What's more important: drafting a guy that makes the roster in the 5th round, or hitting on the #7 overall pick after trading up for a QB? 

 

Unless one of those later picks turns into an All-Pro they are pretty much irrelevant in terms of how I'll be grading Beane. 

You should grade the GM and the coach on wins and losses by the team instead of the success of an individual. Not saying that the performance of Allen won't have a huge impact on the record, but the rest of the players drafted will impact it as well. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

11 hours ago, Mango said:

 

We had issues rushing the passer last year. 

 

Phillips is a back up and isn’t ready. 

 

Star is just there to eat space. He’s also not terribly good. 

 

Tremeaine Edmunds isn’t ready

 

Vontae is bad. 

 

I don't agree with any of that but we all have our own opinions.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Holding off judgement until FA next year. We'll have a lot of money and we need to make a splash.

 

Tevin Coleman

Devin Funchess

Tyler Lockett

Daryl Williams 

Anthony Barr

 

[Mango]

35 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

I don't agree with any of that but we all have our own opinions.

 

So we didn’t have issues rushing the passer? 

Harry is not a back up? 

Vontae is good? 

Edmunds is ready to play starting MLB in the NFL? 

Star isn’t a space eater? 

Star is also good?