Common Sense QB Progression 4 Preseason

[T master]

There is a lot of hype being put on the fact that this week coach McD could play Allen some with the first team unit to see how he does & where he is at with the better players add to it the fact that he has been working almost exclusively with the second team all week that should be part of the natural progression of the process.

 

I thought when Peterman started in the first game that they would (like they are doing) start AJ in the second game with the 1's & move Allen up to the second team O in this game & Petermen would be with the 3's, then the 3rd game Allen would see time with the 1's, Petermen with the 2's, & AJ with the 3's, by that time they should have a good idea who will be their starter .

 

I know some talk has been given that usually the 3rd preseason game is a dress rehearsal for the starter & that they would like to know by the 3rd game who their starter is but given that there is or at least seems to be a true QB competition this year of which the rookie is apparently a part of that this is the way it could go .

 

I for one am all for letting Allen sit for a while (unlike J. Murphy the QB flopper) given the history of many QB's of the past like EJ, Losman & others that due to coaching along with the handling of their careers by possibly throwing them into the fire to quick . The result with a QB that sits a bit seems to have a bit better out come IMHO ! 

 

Farve, Brady, Rogers all sat for a time & i know some of you would say that there are those that started right away that had great careers like the Manning brothers & many more but today's college game is much different from when these guys started & i just think given some time to adjust to the NFL due to having to read the D & all the adjustments that a NFL QB has to make it would just be to Allen's best interest to sit for a while .

 

Not sure if that is for half the yr, a full season but i think it would help him when he does hit the field full time because the last thing the Bills need is another bust when it comes to a QB especially since they invested such a high pick in him ! We don't need a first round back up !! 

 

One thing i do not hope is that say if they do start AJ & he is doing really well & has the team winning that they would let him play out the season & put Allen in here & there as to not start a Flutie/Johnson controversy & divide or confuse the team like that scenario did !!

 

 

 

 

[Ittakestime]

Allen is sitting the year, why can't people grasp this?

 

McCarron probably starts next two preseason games.  Peterman will get some reps with first team in third.  Allen starts 4th preseason.

 

McCarron starts the season.

[JP's Voice]

What if Josh Allen is already better than Nate Peterman or AJ McCarron. Do you still think that he is better of sitting behind two QBs that he is already better than? I do not. All 3 QBs should get time with the ones and the best QB should start, regardless of experience level. If Allen sits behind two QBs who aren't as good as he is, then I can't imagine that will help his growth at all. If Josh Allen is the best than he should play.

[BillsBytheBay]

I wouldn't be surprised to see him at the end of the year, but I'm not holding my breath.

[T master]

7 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

Allen is sitting the year, why can't people grasp this?

 

McCarron probably starts next two preseason games.  Peterman will get some reps with first team in third.  Allen starts 4th preseason.

 

McCarron starts the season.

 

I agree ! But if you listen to John Murphy he wants Allen to start every preseason game to see what he has & truth be told i think Murph wants him to be the starter because he has almost said as much on 1 Bills Live because of where they drafted him & what they gave up to get him .

 

Which he did the same thing with EJ after there was plenty of tape showing the down hill trend that he was on !! But that's Murph for as much sports as he's been a part of he apparently hasn't learned a lot in that time & Tasker is the voice of experience !!

[Soda Popinski]

Allen will start when he's ready.  May take a year, may take a month.   Really doesn't matter.  When he's ready he'll play. 

[Chandler#81]

19 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

Allen is sitting the year, why can't people grasp this?

 

 

 

McCarron starts the season.

I’ll take a stab. Because it hasn’t ever been mentioned by the teams’ brass? ?

 

I do believe McCarron starts @ B’more given his experiences with an old Division rival. Likely Game 2 at Home vs. SD as well. But after 2 weeks of Regular Season protocol Home & Away, I think there may be a change to the Rook. I absolutely believe Allen starts a few games this season.

‘Why can’t people grasp this?’

[Gugny]

21 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

Allen is sitting the year, why can't people grasp this?

 

McCarron probably starts next two preseason games.  Peterman will get some reps with first team in third.  Allen starts 4th preseason.

 

McCarron starts the season.

 

Cool.  Now I don't need to watch/read about any preseason games.

 

Can you please let us know which regular season games we're going to win so I can plan my Fall/Winter Sundays accordingly?

[T master]

5 minutes ago, JP's Voice said:

What if Josh Allen is already better than Nate Peterman or AJ McCarron. Do you still think that he is better of sitting behind two QBs that he is already better than? I do not. All 3 QBs should get time with the ones and the best QB should start, regardless of experience level. If Allen sits behind two QBs who aren't as good as he is, then I can't imagine that will help his growth at all. If Josh Allen is the best than he should play.

 

Given that Allen's physical ability & arm strength he is already head & shoulders above the others which gives him the edge & is the reason why McBean drafted him so high but the in game experience & seeing along with deciphering a NFL defense is what he needs to learn .

 

If you listen to what Pennington said in his interview on 1 Bills Live (which i thought was brilliant over view) about what it takes to be a good  NFL QB, then put that with what AJ has said in some of his interviews "that he has seen every defense that there is in the NFL in his time in the league"  which Allen hasn't that gives some reason to think sitting might not be a bad thing  .

 

A lot of people think because AJ hasn't been "ON the field" his entire NFL career that he lacks the experience but given his entire career college & pro i just feel the dude has the "IT" factor when it comes to playing the position & taken under AJ's wing & watching him perform would not only do Allen good but Petermen as well.

 

 

 

[Chandler#81]

It may never be revealed, but I’m of the belief AJ -upon being passed up in FA, and inking a modest 2 yr comp pkg, was immediately informed the team has positioned themselves to move up in this Once a Generation QB Draft Class and he’ll be the veteran quide for ‘the Future’. This essential commodity wasn’t on the team and his persona lends itself well for this capacity.

Not every pro QB feels cheated they didn’t get to become the next Peyton Manning. Many backup QB’s enjoy a lengthy career doing just this. You can make a case that -like Tyrod- he won’t win you many games, but he likely won’t lose many due to risky chances & effective ball control. Allen’s college career wasn’t designed this way, but Every QB worth his weight must possess this to varying degrees.

 

At this stage, I hope for a fine 10+ yr career for AJ’s Bills tenure.

[Flip Johnson]

1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

Allen is sitting the year, why can't people grasp this?

 

McCarron probably starts next two preseason games.  Peterman will get some reps with first team in third.  Allen starts 4th preseason.

 

McCarron starts the season.

 

Thanks for keeping us all updated.

 

I see no indication from the Bills' comments that this is a likely or even preferable scenario. One thing that the "redshirt" camp fails to point out is that Allen is not sitting behind Brett Favre, Drew Bledsoe or Joe Montana. He is not exactly learning at the feet of the master. AJ McCarron and Nate Peterman have 5 NFL starts between them. People talk like we should start McCarron against the Ravens as though he is some graybeard veteran. He is not Matt Cassel. He has barely played in the NFL.

 

When McDermott, Daboll and Culley are comfortable Allen's going in there and the comfort level is on a relative scale.  

Edited August 16, 2018 by Flip Johnson

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

Allen is sitting the year, why can't people grasp this?

 

McCarron probably starts next two preseason games.  Peterman will get some reps with first team in third.  Allen starts 4th preseason.

 

McCarron starts the season.

 

 

Probably because 1) McD or Beane haven't said anything said what they plan to do  2) Allen played shockingly well in the first game 3) you dont know anymore than anyone else, just your assumption.

[billspro]

2 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

Allen is sitting the year, why can't people grasp this?

 

McCarron probably starts next two preseason games.  Peterman will get some reps with first team in third.  Allen starts 4th preseason.

 

McCarron starts the season.

 

Doubt it. If Allen plays well with the twos this week he will start the third preseason game. If he plays well in the third preseason game he starts opening week. The only way AJ starts is if Allen does not play well.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

At this stage, I hope for a fine 10+ yr career for AJ’s Bills tenure.

 

I hope he becomes our Frank Reich myself.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

Allen is sitting the year, why can't people grasp this?

 

McCarron probably starts next two preseason games.  Peterman will get some reps with first team in third.  Allen starts 4th preseason.

 

McCarron starts the season.

 

 

Because it's not plausible.  Next question?

[billspro]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

I agree ! But if you listen to John Murphy he wants Allen to start every preseason game to see what he has & truth be told i think Murph wants him to be the starter because he has almost said as much on 1 Bills Live because of where they drafted him & what they gave up to get him .

 

Which he did the same thing with EJ after there was plenty of tape showing the down hill trend that he was on !! But that's Murph for as much sports as he's been a part of he apparently hasn't learned a lot in that time & Tasker is the voice of experience !!

 

EJ did plenty of sitting and that didn’t seem to help him. If they are going to be good they will find a way. The more starts in year one the better.

[quinnearlysghost88]

2 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

Allen is sitting the year, why can't people grasp this?

 

McCarron probably starts next two preseason games.  Peterman will get some reps with first team in third.  Allen starts 4th preseason.

 

McCarron starts the season.

Because people are impatient. it's societal. 

[Da webster guy]

The only thing we know now for certain is that there are still a bunch of variables in the decision to start Allen that have to play out first:

 

1.  How is our Oline with it's new coach, new faces and new system going to play.  At this point I would say the arrow is pointing up a little more than I'd thought, but we won't know until Baltimore.  If our pass protection is weak, this will impact McD's decision.

 

2.  How is our AJ/Peterman starter doing?   If they're playing adequate ball, the kid gets to sit on the bench and learn the complexities of the NFL qb job.  He's still a trainee after all.

 

3.  How will our WR's do this year?  We have an injury prone WR1 and a bunch of mediocrity after that.  Can our wideouts and TE's get separation and play at a high enough level to help a rookie kid have some consistency?  If it's another revolving door like last year, this will work against the kid.  

 

4.  How is Josh processing and learning offensive and defensive game plans?  He still hasn't seen one in his entire life yet.  

 

We know he can throw, elude, climb the pocket and seems to have a knack for sensing pressure.  To me that's the unteachable and all I wanted to see against Carolina.   I think we'll see #17 get his first start against the Bears mid season here in Buffalo.

[GaryPinC]

4 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

Allen is sitting the year, why can't people grasp this?

 

McCarron probably starts next two preseason games.  Peterman will get some reps with first team in third.  Allen starts 4th preseason.

 

McCarron starts the season.

I can't grasp this because my impression from the coaches is when Allen improves his decision making and comfort with the offense he'll get his chance.   By jettisoning Tyrod, I believe the hope is that he starts sometime this season, around the mid season. 

    Josh needs to use his arm and decision-making more judiciously, ultimately he will need enough field time to truly learn that.  Why waste this season and part of next if we're building a winner?

If AJM or NP plays lights out then Allen may have to wait a season, but I'm not counting on that.

NP started week 10 last year, after the game McD said "The decision was not about winning now but about the future."

[Ittakestime]

There is so much delusional in this thread it's almost scary.

 

I am still trying to grasp how this regime has shown anything but patience and details.

 

Also, what is up with people think Allen played good in his first game?  If anything, most people thought he showed a ton of promise if groomed correctly, not that he played good enough to make him the starter.  Grooming correctly is not throwing him into the woods this year.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, GaryPinC said:

I can't grasp this because my impression from the coaches is when Allen improves his decision making and comfort with the offense he'll get his chance.   By jettisoning Tyrod, I believe the hope is that he starts sometime this season, around the mid season. 

    Josh needs to use his arm and decision-making more judiciously, ultimately he will need enough field time to truly learn that.  Why waste this season and part of next if we're building a winner?

If AJM or NP plays lights out then Allen may have to wait a season, but I'm not counting on that.

NP started week 10 last year, after the game McD said "The decision was not about winning now but about the future."

 

This is completely false and there is zero evidence to back up this claim.  You can learn a ton from film and practice without getting your head plowed in every week when you get killed on the field because you weren't ready.

[MTBill]

I'll throw this out there.  If Kelly would have signed with Buffalo out of college - he would have sat behind Fergy for a year.  Just sayin'.

 

I think why people want to have Allen start this year is because AJM/Peterman are not just "locks" as QB, both are effectively almost as green as he is.  But - they are not as green as he is, and I think Allen is a better QB if he sits for at least part of the season, learning by watching.  He'll learn more from Daboll on the sidelines (or Culley) as far as how this offense works.  That is going to make him better when he hits the field, than it would if he was under fire trying to learn it from the field.

 

I get both sides here - I just happen to be on the let him learn side.

Edited August 16, 2018 by MTBill

[Ittakestime]

43 minutes ago, MTBill said:

I'll throw this out there.  If Kelly would have signed with Buffalo out of college - he would have sat behind Fergy for a year.  Just sayin'.

 

I think why people want to have Allen start this year is because AJM/Peterman are not just "locks" as QB, both are effectively almost as green as he is.  But - they are not as green as he is, and I think Allen is a better QB if he sits for at least part of the season, learning by watching.  He'll learn more from Daboll on the sidelines (or Culley) as far as how this offense works.  That is going to make him better when he hits the field, than it would if he was under fire trying to learn it from the field.

 

I get both sides here - I just happen to be on the let him learn side.

 

My stance is that Allen is not ready for the mental aspect of the NFL.  I also don't think Wentz was ready and I think it showed in his first year in the NFL (Not going to lie and say that I think his injury was a result of him being out there too early.  I think he picked up habits in his first year that he carried over to his second year, which got him hurt). 

 

To me the risk is too high of ruining Allen.  This team has invested way too much into him to just throw him out there with the current situation around him and him not being mentally ready.  I have zero issue with Peterman and McCarron being the punching bag this year.

[bigK14094]

12 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

 

My stance is that Allen is not ready for the mental aspect of the NFL.  I also don't think Wentz was ready and I think it showed in his first year in the NFL (Not going to lie and say that I think his injury was a result of him being out there too early.  I think he picked up habits in his first year that he carried over to his second year, which got him hurt). 

 

To me the risk is too high of ruining Allen.  This team has invested way too much into him to just throw him out there with the current situation around him and him not being mentally ready.  I have zero issue with Peterman and McCarron being the punching bag this year.

I remember the Bills ruined Todd Collins....who went on to play in the league for  15 years with KC and the Skins

 

My (unfortunate) prediction is the season will be over by the bye........and Allen will get the last 6 games for seasoning his skills.

Edited August 16, 2018 by bigK14094

[joevan]

The players usually know who the best players are on their team.  The coach preaches for the players to always play hard to give the team the best chance to win.  It makes little to no sense with this philosophy to play anyone but the player that has won his position fair and square through competition.  When Allen has won the competition and is the best QB on the team he will play.  Until then, it will be the one who has shown himself to be the best. IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

14 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

I remember the Bills ruined Todd Collins....who went on to play in the league for  15 years with KC and the Skins

 

My (unfortunate) prediction is the season will be over by the bye........and Allen will get the last 6 games for seasoning his skills.

To be honest, I am tired of talking about past QB that we "ruined" Much of what a QB is able to get accomplished isn't based on when you start him as much as is he ready? Is he being coached up properly? Is the OC going to do a good job easing him in the system? The mental part is there and he has physical ability, for me its reps with starters in practices/preseason games that will help decide where he is at.

 

Coaching, readiness, ability, mental frame of mind, with the speed of the game and so on. I can go on but there wont be an answer to these questions till Josh Allen plays with #1's in a preseason game. you mention QB's that failed because of being started right away? what about all the good QB's in the league that DID start right away and are great starting QB's in this league at the very least?

 

Foster gave up on a long pass play that would of been a TD, not counting dropped passes and O'Line penalties that were dictated by a weak third string unit. To be honest with you I doubt that coaching staff even fully knows where Allen is at till he plays with starters.

 

lets not pull out our cute little crystal shiny balls and look into the future, lets ENJOY the process and ride with it.

[GaryPinC]

13 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

To be honest, I am tired of talking about past QB that we "ruined" Much of what a QB is able to get accomplished isn't based on when you start him as much as is he ready? Is he being coached up properly? Is the OC going to do a good job easing him in the system? The mental part is there and he has physical ability, for me its reps with starters in practices/preseason games that will help decide where he is at.

 

Coaching, readiness, ability, mental frame of mind, with the speed of the game and so on. I can go on but there wont be an answer to these questions till Josh Allen plays with #1's in a regular season preseason game. you mention QB's that failed because of being started right away? what about all the good QB's in the league that DID start right away and are great starting QB's in this league at the very least?

 

Foster gave up on a long pass play that would of been a TD, not counting dropped passes and O'Line penalties that were dictated by a weak third string unit. To be honest with you I doubt that coaching staff even fully knows where Allen is at till he plays with starters.

 

lets not pull out our cute little crystal shiny balls and look into the future, lets ENJOY the process and ride with it.

Right on except for this.  Game plans are nowhere near the complexity of the real season ones.  Every team would have one or more franchise quarterbacks if preseason performance was a true indicator.

[BillsBytheBay]

23 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’ll take a stab. Because it hasn’t ever been mentioned by the teams’ brass? ?

 

I do believe McCarron starts @ B’more given his experiences with an old Division rival. Likely Game 2 at Home vs. SD as well. But after 2 weeks of Regular Season protocol Home & Away, I think there may be a change to the Rook. I absolutely believe Allen starts a few games this season.

‘Why can’t people grasp this?’

It's not a lottery.  McCarron will start until he's hurt or sucks.  That's the long and short of it.  If our season takes a dump, we'll see Allan.  If McCarron is winning.... Why would we see him?

 

I see your point.  I believe theirs a good chance to see Allen this year, but it really has to be from a lack of success.

[Chandler#81]

26 minutes ago, JaxBills said:

It's not a lottery.  McCarron will start until he's hurt or sucks.  That's the long and short of it.  If our season takes a dump, we'll see Allan.  If McCarron is winning.... Why would we see him?

 

I see your point.  I believe theirs a good chance to see Allen this year, but it really has to be from a lack of success.

I disagree.

No, it doesn’t. McBeane have placed all their chips in on Allen. McCarron & Peterman are 5th Round Place-holders for the teams’ future. The sooner they let Allen play with real bullets, the faster he’ll learn how to shoot correctly. I’m sure he’ll see the field at sometime this season because of this. The ‘other 2’ likely won’t even be Bills by 2020.

[BillsBytheBay]

3 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I disagree.

No, it doesn’t. McBeane have placed all their chips in on Allen. McCarron & Peterman are 5th Round Place-holders for the teams’ future. The sooner they let Allen play with real bullets, the faster he’ll learn how to shoot correctly. I’m sure he’ll see the field at sometime this season because of this. The ‘other 2’ likely won’t even be Bills by 2020.

We're not sitting at the table with them.  McBeane have shown to me that they know what there doing and seem to have the confidence of ownership and the team.  

  I admire that they don't hear us.  Really.  There not going to risk blowing out there brand new turbo charger with out breaking it in, because someone thinks they should race with it right now.

[Chandler#81]

3 minutes ago, JaxBills said:

We're not sitting at the table with them.  McBeane have shown to me that they know what there doing and seem to have the confidence of ownership and the team.  

  I admire that they don't hear us.  Really.  There not going to risk blowing out there brand new turbo charger with out breaking it in, because someone thinks they should race with it right now.

I didn’t say anything like that. Do I think Allen will start at sometime this year? Definitely. He’s the future. The ‘other 2’ are not.

[BillsBytheBay]

5 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I didn’t say anything like that. Do I think Allen will start at sometime this year? Definitely. He’s the future. The ‘other 2’ are not.

I would hope that the coaches play to win, and not sacrifice a season to teach a guy to shoot.  If he is the best, he plays.  Plain and simple.  This isn't Pop Warner anymore.  It Pro.

 

For what is worth I understood you as saying he needs to start because of the investment made on him, and not his readiness.  If I read that wrong I'm sorry.

1 minute ago, JaxBills said:

18 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I disagree.

No, it doesn’t. McBeane have placed all their chips in on Allen. McCarron & Peterman are 5th Round Place-holders for the teams’ future. The sooner they let Allen play with real bullets, the faster he’ll learn how to shoot correctly. I’m sure he’ll see the field at sometime this season because of this. The ‘other 2’ likely won’t even be Bills by 2020.

 

As far as needing games to improve,

 

Do you know how to get to Carnagy Hall?

Edited August 17, 2018 by JaxBills