7-26 Training Camp Report

[oldmanfan]

Well done.  Much appreciated

[YoloinOhio]

Thanks Nole!!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, NY Nole said:

4. Speaking of QB’s — when things kicked off, McCarron was alone throwing passes to the RB’s while Allen and Peterman threw to the receivers (at the same time in different halves of the field.). One would be from shotgun while the other was under center. Here - Peterman excelled at throwing against air (receivers not so much — more on that later — but Rod Streater dropped his very first pass against air, though it was thrown by an assistant coach — it was still a  ball that should have been caught — he redid the drill and caught it this time — way to go. In 11 on 11, Peterman got the start against the ones. His very first pass — should have been INTERCEPTED by Tre White — but White dropped it. It would have been a pick6. Granted — it was a good jump from White — but Peterman struggled mightily in team drills. McCarron was solid, but unspectacular — definitely appeared comfortable an in control - at one point he was directing his receiver on a roll-out pass and hit him in stride running left to right (vs. the inaccuracy of Allen doing the same thing).  As for Allen —well, he too was up and down — but he is clearly the superior arm talent. He makes it look so effortless in terms of throwing the ball. He had absolutely the best pass of the night to Rob Foster — when he climbed the pocket (it was collapsing) and zinged it for a 20-25 yard strike OVER THE MIDDLE (#Astrobot). While he had several nice throws — he also had several bad throws — namely short passes while he was rolling out. It seems as though he doesn’t get his body in the right position to make these types of seemingly simple passes. He was wildly off target on several short throws in this fashion. He also put some others on the money well down the field. He has loads of potential. Peterman — well — as mentioned his first pass should have been picked...others as well. It’s as though he decides quickly where he is going with the ball and even if defenders are there says “SCREW IT - I’m throwing anyways.” I think Peterman gets it out the quickest of the qb’s — but it doesn’t matter if you throw it to the other team.

 

 

Thank you so much for doing this. 

 

Erik Turner of Cover1 reported that Allen "tanked" and seemed upset - had "very bad body language" and had to be calmed down by teammates - do you have any idea what that was about?

 

It sounds as though Allen is still working on the technical issues that have dogged him, which have always been most apparent on short passes and when he rolls out.  He seems to have trouble with touch on short passes, and his whole mechanics is off when he rolls out.  We knew he was a project with a high ceiling, so hopefully they will treat him as such and give him the time he needs to fix things if he can.

 

It's been said that Peterman is super-smart and in the classroom, just Einsteins the place, can answer whatever Daboll throws at them.  I can see why the coaches are intrigued by him.  But the story others have said is that when he sets his feet and has time and space, you can see the extra zip on the ball but when he's pressured or rolls out, not so much.  What you're saying seems consistent with that.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Erik Turner of Cover1 reported that Allen "tanked" and seemed upset - had "very bad body language" and had to be calmed down by teammates - do you have any idea what that was about?

 

 

Have you got a link to this Hapless? It was mentioned in the shoutbox too but I can't find it?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Have you got a link to this Hapless? It was mentioned in the shoutbox too but I can't find it?

 

I posted it in 716's SJF thread but here it is again.

It's about 12 minutes in IIRC

 

There's a bunch of interesting stuff in there about how training camp is structured and different drills build on each other.

 

He's def. more negative on Allen than others who watched training camp and have reported.  716 said he didn't see what Turner was talking about.

https://twitter.com/Cover_1_/status/1022649787328421889

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I posted it in 716's SJF thread but here it is again.

It's about 12 minutes in IIRC

 

There's a bunch of interesting stuff in there about how training camp is structured and different drills build on each other.

 

He's def. more negative on Allen than others who watched training camp and have reported.  716 said he didn't see what Turner was talking about.

https://twitter.com/Cover_1_/status/1022649787328421889

 

I tend to think any criticisms about Allen from certain Analysts will be overblown and exaggerated.  Many of these guys were vehemently stating Allen would be a bust.

Cian Fahey commented on the pic of Allen signing his contract stating that he's surprised he can hit the pen to the paper.

Another guy from Pro Football Focus said he's one of the worst QBASE ratings they've ever had.  Other snarky remarks as well pertaining to Allen and basically how bad he is.

[Virgil]

Not to be that guy, but you should pry update the title to 7/26 training report so people don’t get confused when others come out. 

 

But good work 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I tend to think any criticisms about Allen from certain Analysts will be overblown and exaggerated.  Many of these guys were vehemently stating Allen would be a bust.

Cian Fahey commented on the pic of Allen signing his contract stating that he's surprised he can hit the pen to the paper.

Another guy from Pro Football Focus said he's one of the worst QBASE ratings they've ever had.  Other snarky remarks as well pertaining to Allen and basically how bad he is.

 

I understand your viewpoint, but I haven't seen Erik Turner as part of that crowd.

He did have Allen graded out as a 2nd round talent who would likely be overdrafted due to big-arm-love, but he had the 2nd round grade on a couple of other high-rated QB (grading as he sees them, not as he thinks they'll be drafted), notably Mason Rudolph whom he liked quite a lot.  Overall he hasn't been over-the-top in his Allen critique to date, and as you know, I'm not shy to "call out" shark-jumping in the Allen critics.  In the podcast he made the point it's one practice, and the first day (ie don't read too much into it)

 

Maybe he's more negative than I see, but anyway, judge for yourself (may have to register, but can choose free registration level)
https://www.cover1.net/scouting-report-qb-josh-allen-wyoming/

https://www.cover1.net/balancing-josh-allen/

 

[BuffaloRush]

10 hours ago, NY Nole said:

Apologies that my notes are not quite as detailed as Astrobot’s were — but just returned from a BEAUTIFUL night at SJFC. Some thoughts on the first practice:

 

1. We all need to truly appreciate the player that Kyle Williams is (and has been) for the BIlls. His leadership comes shining through in everything he does. During tonight’s practice — the Offense and Defense routinely separated — with the Defense relocating to the practice field that is closest to the Athletic Center — away from public view. Whenever they left one field and returned back — guess who was the first one out front RUNNING to the drill area —- KYLE WILLIAMS. I noticed on more than one occasion, Harrison Phillips was tied to Kyle’s hip — I think just being around Kyle is enought to give these guys extra knowledge or motivation. Oh ya — Kyle stayed for at least an hour after practice signing autographs — he is simply amazing — and I for one am going to miss him.

 

2. Is Tremaine Edmunds really that big? Yes he is — and then some. He is gigantic. From what I saw — he moves very well too. While it wasn’t a full padded practice, this guy is going to be thumping people this year — and opposing players will not like getting hit by him. He looks like the real deal.

 

3. Offensive Line — let’s just call this a work in progress. For the first practice — there is nowhere to go but up. Line looks like this: Dawkins, Ducasse, Bodine, Miller and Mills. In the individual drills — Ducasse had a false start. It was not pretty. Unfortunately the backups weren’t much better (though things did improve slightly as the night went on). Marshall Newhouse was second string LT — and probably shouldn’t have been. He could not compete with speed of Yarborough on the edge for what would have been a sack that would have killed McCarron. Teller was backup RG and McDermott was backup RT (with Groy at backup center)

 

4. Speaking of QB’s — when things kicked off, McCarron was alone throwing passes to the RB’s while Allen and Peterman threw to the receivers (at the same time in different halves of the field.). One would be from shotgun while the other was under center. Here - Peterman excelled at throwing against air (receivers not so much — more on that later — but Rod Streater dropped his very first pass against air, though it was thrown by an assistant coach — it was still a  ball that should have been caught — he redid the drill and caught it this time — way to go. In 11 on 11, Peterman got the start against the ones. His very first pass — should have been INTERCEPTED by Tre White — but White dropped it. It would have been a pick6. Granted — it was a good jump from White — but Peterman struggled mightily in team drills. McCarron was solid, but unspectacular — definitely appeared comfortable an in control - at one point he was directing his receiver on a roll-out pass and hit him in stride running left to right (vs. the inaccuracy of Allen doing the same thing).  As for Allen —well, he too was up and down — but he is clearly the superior arm talent. He makes it look so effortless in terms of throwing the ball. He had absolutely the best pass of the night to Rob Foster — when he climbed the pocket (it was collapsing) and zinged it for a 20-25 yard strike OVER THE MIDDLE (#Astrobot). While he had several nice throws — he also had several bad throws — namely short passes while he was rolling out. It seems as though he doesn’t get his body in the right position to make these types of seemingly simple passes. He was wildly off target on several short throws in this fashion. He also put some others on the money well down the field. He has loads of potential. Peterman — well — as mentioned his first pass should have been picked...others as well. It’s as though he decides quickly where he is going with the ball and even if defenders are there says “SCREW IT - I’m throwing anyways.” I think Peterman gets it out the quickest of the qb’s — but it doesn’t matter if you throw it to the other team.

 

5. WR’s - Streater had a rough go of it tonight. He looked very awkward in his breaks — and had a bad drop against air. On the flip side — who is this Robert Foster. HE had the catch of the night from Allen — but was looking like a very polished receiver out there. Caught many —- although did have a FUMBLE on a reverse. Can’t have that Robert — it was a bummer — because you had the best evening out of the WR’s by far. Reilly looked solid — as did Proehl. KB is clearly one, Holmes was the #2 and behind them —- well, we’ll see. BTW - Ray Ray is very quick. Whether he gets on the field is anyone’s guess. He looks smallish to me — like Roscoe.

 

Things I liked on Defense (couldn’t see much because they were on other field most of time)...Poyer picked up where he left off. Seems like he is also being a leader as well. Jerry Hughes was teaching Love on the sidelines about hand-placement and swim techniques — liked seeing this out of him. Defense was clearly ahead of the offense — but that is to be expected. I think we have a solid defense this year — hopefully that will help our OLINE improve.

 

That’s all I can think of for now — maybe others saw more of the defense tonight. Oh — coolest sight of camp — seeing Pancho Billa and Pinto Ken. Pancho was invited onto the field toward the end of practice. Afterwords, Harrison Phillips spent probably 20 minutes chatting with him — very cool to see. I asked him how he was feeling and he said good..#PanchoPower

 

EDIT - Sorry about the format — my tablet was acting up last night. I will be back at camp next Sunday — hopefully other poster can share their thoughts until then. Couple other thoughts: they spent a lot of time on the new kickoff return format. Taiwan Jones and Cadet were the primary kickoff returners. In reading another post — I absolutely agree that Murphy looks like another giant of a man. He was starting Left End. As said earlier, Poyer and White were all over on defense. Oh ya — for what it’s worth Allen’s girlfriend was there — and had quite the share of fans in her own right. She’s a looker! Bills QB’s may not be getting much national attention — but if Musberger does any games — their significant others sure will.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

Pinto Ken?  I think you mean Pinto Ron....unless it’s his son

[aristocrat]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

Pinto Ken?  I think you mean Pinto Ron....unless it’s his son

 

same guy.  his real name is kenny.  but goes by ron as well

[Paul Costa]

Thanks pal ?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Not to be that guy, but you should pry update the title to 7/26 training report so people don’t get confused when others come out. 

 

But good work 

 

I took care of it for him.  Good work 'Nole

[Royale with Cheese]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I understand your viewpoint, but I haven't seen Erik Turner as part of that crowd.

He did have Allen graded out as a 2nd round talent who would likely be overdrafted due to big-arm-love, but he hasn't been over-the-top in his critique, and as you know, I'm not shy to "call out" shark-jumping in the Allen critics.

 

Maybe he's more negative than I see, but anyway, judge for yourself (may have to register, but can choose free registration level)
https://www.cover1.net/scouting-report-qb-josh-allen-wyoming/

https://www.cover1.net/balancing-josh-allen/

 

 

Those scouting report videos were pretty good.  I do disagree with one where he said Allen was inaccurate.  The tight had a skinny post and had to leap a little to catch the ball which slowed him down and didn't get as much yac.  I didn't think he needed to jump or adjust.  If he just continued to run, the ball would have been caught just above his facemask.  The little leap allowed him to catch it at his chest but you should be able to catch a ball running without slowing down if it's just above your eyes.

[LeGOATski]

Josh Allen is definitely inaccurate. He shows it time and time again in games and practice. Hopefully he stays patient and focused because it'll take a while to improve. 

 

We tell ourselves "it's only one practice."

 

Allen needs to tell himself the same. It's one practice, dude. Your first camp practice. Just relax and do what your coaches tell you. Learn from your mistakes. Everything will be fine.

 

I really don't want to see another QB bust for the Bills. ?

[Awwufelloff]

Allen will once again prove that taking the guy with the physical tool set over best mechanics/mental game is always a mistake. He has all the "tools", but if you're inaccurate that is a very difficult thing to fix. I do believe Allen can handle the mental aspect of the game though which is different than the prototypical "physical specimen" QB so it will at least be interesting to see how he develops. We have to give him 2-3 years, but if Rosen is better than Allen in that time frame you once again fire everyone and start over. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Awwufelloff

[Royale with Cheese]

11 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Josh Allen is definitely inaccurate. He shows it time and time again in games and practice. Hopefully he stays patient and focused because it'll take a while to improve. 

 

We tell ourselves "it's only one practice."

 

Allen needs to tell himself the same. It's one practice, dude. Your first camp practice. Just relax and do what your coaches tell you. Learn from your mistakes. Everything will be fine.

 

I really don't want to see another QB bust for the Bills. ?

 

I think Allen is just inconsistent.  He will hit a guy 15 yards downfield in perfect stride but then turn around a miss a RB in the flat 6 yards away.

I view him (very early on impression) that he's going the equivalent to a homerun hitter who hit's around .250  

 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think Allen is just inconsistent.  He will hit a guy 15 yards downfield in perfect stride but then turn around a miss a RB in the flat 6 yards away.

I view him (very early on impression) that he's going the equivalent to a homerun hitter who hit's around .250  

 

It looks like you're just calling him inaccurate in a nicer way....

[CommonCents]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think Allen is just inconsistent.  He will hit a guy 15 yards downfield in perfect stride but then turn around a miss a RB in the flat 6 yards away.

I view him (very early on impression) that he's going the equivalent to a homerun hitter who hit's around .250  

 

Culpepperish

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think Allen is just inconsistent.  He will hit a guy 15 yards downfield in perfect stride but then turn around a miss a RB in the flat 6 yards away.

I view him (very early on impression) that he's going the equivalent to a homerun hitter who hit's around .250  

The silver lining with that is that he is very inexperienced for a QB at this level. So there is hope that he becomes more consistent with more reps.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

It looks like you're just calling him inaccurate in a nicer way....

 

Not trying to.  The reason is say inconsistent is because he will deliver the ball in the exact spot it needs to be but will also miss easy.

 

I viewed Taylor as an overall inaccurate QB.  I never really saw him hit anyone in stride where they could get some good yac (outside of 2015 with just the bombs).

He missed bad several times and never really stuck it in perfectly.  This is why half his games are sub 200 yards.

I think Donald Jones said it best when he was here, the reason Taylor throws mostly comebacks, stop routes and guys sitting in the zone is because he's not good at hitting a running/moving target.  That to me is inaccurate.  

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

The silver lining with that is that he is very inexperienced for a QB at this level. So there is hope that he becomes more consistent with more reps.

 

I'm going to keep an open mind on him.