National Anthem Solution

[K-9]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Wrong....  Even they said it was no disrespect to the Military and or everything.  But go violate the US Flag Code on Monday.  Glass Houses

 

Good point, here. These same yahoos decrying such disrespect for our flag, will have no problem wearing their flag underwear, flag socks, flag speedos, etc., while picnicking on their flag blankets and drinking beer out of their flag cozies. 

 

Let us now await the replies from those who claim that if it's not made from an actual flag, then it's not disrespectful of the flag in the least; that it's perfectly OK to wear it, sit on it, or even make toilet paper out of it. 

[Gugny]

5 hours ago, Jeetz1231 said:

I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great.

 

I, too, am a Vet and I support peaceful protest 100% - including those who choose to kneel during the anthem.

 

I will also tell you that the overwhelming majority of veterans who've chimed in on this subject (on this site and those with whom I've spoken, personally) feel the exact same way.

[Bruce_Stools]

5 hours ago, mrags said:

For one, Brady Quinn is wrong. He wasn’t even old enough in 2001 to know what happened prior to 9/11. 

 

Ive been going to games since much before that and I can tell you the players came out and stood there at the anthem. This was back when people were proud of this country. 

 

Now you have a bunch of Whiney babies that care more about their feelings than the rights of others. 

 

Im sure some of you will attack me for this. I don’t care. Put me on ignore if you haven’t already. You are part of the problem anyway 

First of all. Thank you for your service. 

 

Unfortunatey where you are wrong is that the NFL has mandated that if you are out on the field you will stand for the national anthem. It is their rule and their company. And the players are employees of their company. And if they don’t like it, they can sit in the locker room prior to the anthem or look elsewhere for a new job. I heard the Hamilton Tiget Cats are looking for NFL caliber players nowadays. 

I wish I could like this twice. People always seem to forget the players are employees and “on the job”.

[BringBackOrton]

40 minutes ago, K-9 said:

As if the immediate aftermath of 9/11 and the start of the Gulf War were the same as any other time. As if the thousands of times the anthem has been played at sporting events before and since those events rose to the same level of attached emotion and feeling of national pride. 

 

Can you honestly tell me you've experienced that exact level of high emotion EVERY time you've heard the anthem before or after those events? Do you get out of your chair at home to stand EVERY time you hear it on television before a game? 

 

People are free to "feel" whatever they want when hearing that song. From pride when it's played while welcoming a returning veteran home to revulsion when seeing it played at a white supremacists rally and everything in between.

 

Regardless, the playing of the anthem commands a certain solemnity. And playing it at raucous sporting events cheapens it far more often than it inspires people. Especially with the NFL and other sports leagues getting paid big money to stage such phony displays to advertise for the military.  

I did not say those times of war were the same as any other time.  However, you claimed that the playing of the anthem regularly "cheapens" it.  The thousands of times it was played before SB25 and 9/11 did not cheapen EITHER rendition.  

 

Frequency does not reduce the capacity for reflection.  It is no different than praying everyday versus twice a year at Christmas and Easter.  Does the person who prays everyday "cheapen" his experience because he does it more frequently?  Maybe he does, because sometimes he's going through the motions.  But that's on him, not the act of prayer.  There is ZERO reason to blame the anthem itself for the bad behavior of its listeners.

 

 "Regardless, the playing of the anthem commands a certain solemnity. And playing it at raucous sporting events cheapens it far more often than it inspires people."

 

For some, maybe.  Not for me.  Whenever I have been in attendance of the national anthem, since I've been an adult, I choose to reflect on the appropriateness of it being played before a sporting event.  I choose to marvel at how blessed I am to spend the next 2 to 3 to 4 hours caring about an arbitrary game instead of worrying about the world, about food, about shelter, about clean water for my family.  I marvel at how our country is so great, we can pay millions to athletes for a glorified gladiator battle. I think about how incredible it is that people from all walks of life, of all races, of all creeds, of all orientations can sit together and forget all their differences, because they all hate the Jets more than anything else.

 

Maybe I'm the only person who thinks about that.  But I don't think so. And no, I'm not perfect, I've used the restroom during a rendition once or twice. But my mind has wandered while in prayer, too.  That doesn't make regular prayer useless.

14 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Good point, here. These same yahoos decrying such disrespect for our flag, will have no problem wearing their flag underwear, flag socks, flag speedos, etc., while picnicking on their flag blankets and drinking beer out of their flag cozies. 

 

Let us now await the replies from those who claim that if it's not made from an actual flag, then it's not disrespectful of the flag in the least; that it's perfectly OK to wear it, sit on it, or even make toilet paper out of it. 

I do not have any flag "memorabilia."

Edited May 25, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[formerlyofCtown]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree with you completely that we live in a country that gives citizens the right to stand for, kneel for, or just kind of ignore the playing of our national anthem.  And FTR most of my friends who are vets feel the same - that they fought for our freedoms to disagree with each other and criticize our country.

 

Where the NFL differs is that these players are on the job, on premises their employer has leased, on their employer's time being paid.  And the employer has the right to specify OTJ behavior.  The employee has the right to say "I don't agree with this, I quit"

I am glad to see that 2 quality players can't find a team.  It shows the NFL isn't just blowing hot air. 

[formerlyofCtown]

15 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Good point, here. These same yahoos decrying such disrespect for our flag, will have no problem wearing their flag underwear, flag socks, flag speedos, etc., while picnicking on their flag blankets and drinking beer out of their flag cozies. 

 

Let us now await the replies from those who claim that if it's not made from an actual flag, then it's not disrespectful of the flag in the least; that it's perfectly OK to wear it, sit on it, or even make toilet paper out of it. 

Typical exaggeration of reality on your part.  I'm not against their right to protest.  I pay good money to watch these games.  If they want to protest they can do it on their dime not mine.  I could exaggerate as well and accuse them of stealing because technically that is what they are doing.  I watch football to get away from that crap.

[T master]

The reason why this is a issue in the first place is because the media made the issue as big as it is !! If they wouldn't have shown & announced at every game what Kapernick was doing & not put one camera on his every move & then incorporate it into other games it would have had to choose another avenue to get his point out which i wish would have happened !

 

I know that when i go to work there are rules, you don't smoke in the building, you don't talk on your cell phone while at work do it on your break, & other such rules so it's the companies discretion what rules they want to enforce but the only thing with this rule thing now is it has drawn more attention to the problem !

 

Some times its better to leave sleeping dogs lie, lay ? You know what i'm saying ! 

 

If these guys are so passionate about this subject why don't they invest between all the players which make ridiculous money & make a commercial to ramp up awareness or start a group to address it in each NFL city ? Buy the time before & during the games like all advertisers do use their company in that way but i get it free advertisement is better yet full of other controversies ! 

 

This is societal issue & when i sit down to watch a football game on the week end i try to leave society behind for how ever long the games that i decide to watch last & i like to forget all the crap that's going on in the world for that period of time,  i don't want to here the media blow this thing up the way they have during that time . 

 

Since this stuff started my NFL time has went way down (i know a lot of others that have quit the NFL too)  because every day is surrounded by ridiculous actions put forth by others & if this continues to be blown up by the media & those in favor of this kind of promotion then i will be relegated to work in the yard or do wood working on sunday's because i know the grass or the wood won't protest & i can just chill & enjoy & block out the crap ?!! 

[vorpma]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Okay well if I want to see a display of patriotism why would I go to a sporting event? They have nothing to do with each other at all. Like if every time I went to Tim Hortons they made me say the pledge of allegiance before buying my coffee, I suppose that would be their prerogative, but I would sure think it was stupid.

And has anyone who thinks these protests are disrespectful donated time or money to veterans' causes? If demanding professional athletes stand for the anthem is the full extent of your activism, I would suggest putting your money where your mouth is.

Opinions are like anal openings, everyone has one and they all stink! This is going to get decided by the bottom line; it's not really bright to alienate a large segment of your customer base.  Let's talk again in December!

[formerlyofCtown]

5 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

Solution. Stop playing the anthem at games. 

 

but then the NFL wouldn't get its money and we couldn't have that. 

 

Or people could stop watching and going to games.  Oh wait they did and look who won. 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

I did not say those times of war were the same as any other time.  However, you claimed that the playing of the anthem regularly "cheapens" it.  The thousands of times it was played before SB25 and 9/11 did not cheapen EITHER rendition.  

 

Frequency does not reduce the capacity for reflection.  It is no different than praying everyday versus twice a year at Christmas and Easter.  Does the person who prays everyday "cheapen" his experience because he does it more frequently?  Maybe he does, because sometimes he's going through the motions.  But that's on him, not the act of prayer.  There is ZERO reason to blame the anthem itself for the bad behavior of its listeners.

 

 "Regardless, the playing of the anthem commands a certain solemnity. And playing it at raucous sporting events cheapens it far more often than it inspires people."

 

For some, maybe.  Not for me.  Whenever I have been in attendance of the national anthem, since I've been an adult, I choose to reflect on the appropriateness of it being played before a sporting event.  I choose to marvel at how blessed I am to spend the next 2 to 3 to 4 hours caring about an arbitrary game instead of worrying about the world, about food, about shelter, about clean water for my family.  I marvel at how our country is so great, we can pay millions to athletes for a glorified gladiator battle. I think about how incredible it is that people from all walks of life, of all races, of all creeds, of all orientations can sit together and forget all their differences, because they all hate the Jets more than anything else.

 

Maybe I'm the only person who thinks about that.  But I don't think so. And no, I'm not perfect, I've used the restroom during a rendition once or twice. But my mind has wandered while in prayer, too.  That doesn't make regular prayer useless.

I do not have any flag "memorabilia."

And isn't that the whole fricken point? You, me, and ESPECIALLY our government don't have a right to mandate such behavior or decide what is and what isn't a correct display of love for our country. Glad you're a man of principle that defines his own meaning and behaviors. That's laudable. But you don't get to tell everyone else they are wrong because they differ. 

 

Bottom line for me is, a symbol should NEVER mean more than the right it represents. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Typical exaggeration of reality on your part.  I'm not against their right to protest.  I pay good money to watch these games.  If they want to protest they can do it on their dime not mine.  I could exaggerate as well and accuse them of stealing because technically that is what they are doing.  I watch football to get away from that crap.

They are doing it before the game starts and it doesn’t interrupt it at all.

 

basically, players are pieces of meat to you.  

[vorpma]

21 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I, too, am a Vet and I support peaceful protest 100% - including those who choose to kneel during the anthem.

 

I will also tell you that the overwhelming majority of veterans who've chimed in on this subject (on this site and those with whom I've spoken, personally) feel the exact same way.

What planet are you living on; visit Fort Bragg, Fort Campbell, or a FOB in Iraq or Afghanistan then tell me a majority are in support!

 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Or people could stop watching and going to games.  Oh wait they did and look who won. 

Who won? Are you 12?  

 

This is attitude is exactly why our country is becoming more divided than ever. A bunch of losers trying to say they won.  It goes both ways. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by C.Biscuit97

[Gugny]

Just now, vorpma said:

What planet are you living on; visit Fort Bragg, Fort Campbell, or a FOB in Iraq or Afghanistan then tell me a majority are in support!

 

 

You should read what I wrote again - or perhaps have someone else explain it to you.

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Typical exaggeration of reality on your part.  I'm not against their right to protest.  I pay good money to watch these games.  If they want to protest they can do it on their dime not mine.  I could exaggerate as well and accuse them of stealing because technically that is what they are doing.  I watch football to get away from that crap.

What am I exaggerating here? That there is no end to the merchandising of the American flag for monetary gain? That can't be overstated enough. 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, K-9 said:

And isn't that the whole fricken point? You, me, and ESPECIALLY our government don't have a right to mandate such behavior or decide what is and what isn't a correct display of love for our country. Glad you're a man of principle that defines his own meaning and behaviors. That's laudable. But you don't get to tell everyone else they are wrong because they differ. 

 

Bottom line for me is, a symbol should NEVER mean more than the right it represents. 

Our government isn't, though.

 

I contend that if I owned an NFL team, I could make it mandatory that everyone who buys a ticket for admission must stand and salute the anthem unless they are unable to stand.  I could make it mandatory that all shops close, that no one is allowed to use the bathroom, and that no one is allowed to cheer during a long note.  And anyone who breaks these rules is ejected.

 

I could do all of those things, and none of them would infringe on anyone's rights, and it would be much worse if the government told me I couldn't.

 

That's the harsh pill that you and every other person screaming needs to swallow.

[formerlyofCtown]

38 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Are people honestly this stupid? People have said nine million times it has nothing to do with the military.  In fact, Kaepernick was sitting and switched to kneeling after talking to Nate Boyer, who served.  Stop being dumb.

 

And it’s hilarious all the fake patriots that have suddenly emerged.  I’m a better American than you BS.  Forcing people to do something is stuff they do in North Korea.  I love how this idiot in office has conned his “base” into thinking he gives 2 craps about anyone but himself.  Patriotism isn’t forcing people to salute the flag.  It’s about making people want to salute the flag.

 

i won’t take a knee but it’s sad that some people can’t have empathy others.  It’s also pathetic that people had no problem with the scumbags who have been in the nfl for year but yet this is where they draw their line.

That’s what real Americans do!!!

Don't forget that he is making America Great again, because he is.  You just keep watching that dog getting wagged pay no attention to those career polititions behind the curtain.  Trump sold realestate and his name to make his money.  What did the Clinton's and others have to sell that made them so much money.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Our government isn't, though.

 

I contend that if I owned an NFL team, I could make it mandatory that everyone who buys a ticket for admission must stand and salute the anthem unless they are unable to stand.  I could make it mandatory that all shops close, that no one is allowed to use the bathroom, and that no one is allowed to cheer during a long note.  And anyone who breaks these rules is ejected.

 

I could do all of those things, and none of them would infringe on anyone's rights, and it would be much worse if the government told me I couldn't.

 

That's the harsh pill that you and every other person screaming needs to swallow.

I'm not confusing our government with the NFL's right as a private employer to mandate employee behaviors. I mentioned our government as part of a larger point, that's all. 

 

Oh, and I'm not screaming. But my antennae is up for the off the charts hypocrisy surrounding this issue. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

I'm not confusing our government with the NFL's right as a private employer to mandate employee behaviors. I mentioned our government as part of a larger point, that's all. 

 

Oh, and I'm not screaming. But my antennae is up for the off the charts hypocrisy surrounding this issue. 

And I've seen that larger point mentioned over and over and over in this debate.

 

I don't understand why.  It's irrelevant, you agree.  So why does it continue to conflate the argument?

 

People are allowed to be hypocrites.  In fact, they have the right to be.  

Edited May 25, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[MAJBobby]

13 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Typical exaggeration of reality on your part.  I'm not against their right to protest.  I pay good money to watch these games.  If they want to protest they can do it on their dime not mine.  I could exaggerate as well and accuse them of stealing because technically that is what they are doing.  I watch football to get away from that crap.

 

Or you could stop spending money and going to games because they are doing something you do not agree with.

[vorpma]

8 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

You should read what I wrote again - or perhaps have someone else explain it to you.

Have someone reread both posts to you!

[PromoTheRobot]

The NFL isn't the first sports league with a patriotism policy.

 

[MAJBobby]

11 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Or people could stop watching and going to games.  Oh wait they did and look who won. 

 

Did they????  Is Pretesting stopping??  What happens when players are staying in the locker room that "MAGA Base" gonna cry again about disrespect?

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

The NFL isn't the first sports league with a patriotism policy.

 

Adam Silver is a modern day slave owner, if you ask me.

[Thurmal34]

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Did they????  Is Pretesting stopping??  What happens when players are staying in the locker room that "MAGA Base" gonna cry again about disrespect?

I would argue that this new policy is a direct result of backlash from the protesting, so yes.

[MAJBobby]

11 minutes ago, vorpma said:

What planet are you living on; visit Fort Bragg, Fort Campbell, or a FOB in Iraq or Afghanistan then tell me a majority are in support!

 

I have been to those places Multiple Times... and I can confirm a majority of us do not give a **** if they kneel......  Question is have you?

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

I would argue that this new policy is a direct result of backlash from the protesting, so yes.

 

Really or is it because they do not want the words "NFL" being uttered by a specific person in office that is offended they did not want him to be part of the club, LIKE they discussed in the Owners meeting and was reported on.

[Bray Wyatt]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The NFL isn't the first sports league with a patriotism policy.

 

 

This is just a terrible post.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Really or is it because they do not want the words "NFL" being uttered by a specific person in office that is offended they did not want him to be part of the club, LIKE they discussed in the Owners meeting and was reported on.

Why can't it be both, Bobbo?

 

Pretend all you want like 99% of people don't care.  You'll continue to be wrong.

Edited May 25, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Bray Wyatt said:

 

This is just a terrible post.

 

Why? I think it's an important perspective.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Why? I think it's an important perspective.

It's a **** perspective, because the NBA has required standing for the anthem for 20+ years.  

 

You LACK perspective.  Period.

[vorpma]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I have been to those places Multiple Times... and I can confirm a majority of us do not give a **** if they kneel......  Question is have you?

 

Really or is it because they do not want the words "NFL" being uttered by a specific person in office that is offended they did not want him to be part of the club, LIKE they discussed in the Owners meeting and was reported on.

We can hook up and I can give you a personal tour and bring you back to reality!

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, vorpma said:

Have someone reread both posts to you!

 

Oh yeah?!?  Well the jerk store called! ...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, vorpma said:

Opinions are like anal openings, everyone has one and they all stink!

 

I've heard it, "Opinions are like anal openings, everyone has one and few people want to examine someone else's in any detail"

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

It's a **** perspective, because the NBA has required standing for the anthem for 20+ years.  

 

You LACK perspective.  Period.

 

It's still not right. Patriotism should never be mandatory. 

[formerlyofCtown]

14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They are doing it before the game starts and it doesn’t interrupt it at all.

 

basically, players are pieces of meat to you.  

LOL talk about an extreme response.  My employer pays me to keep equipment working.  I'm not allowed to play video games while on the clock.

 

Yup they are my Sunday afternoon hookers.  I'm so ashamed of myself for taking advantage of those millionaires.

[Bray Wyatt]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Why? I think it's an important perspective.

 

Its not the same thing at all. 

 

One, the german thing was government mandated, the NFL is the business owners decision.

 

Two, the team was banned for a year in Germany, the nfl team would be fined.

 

Three, they dont even have to stand, they can stay in the lockerroom if they dont want to stand.

 

Also, the NBA has a policy that requires people to stand, but of course the NFL is the bad guy. 

 

NBA's rule: (2) Players, coaches and trainers are to stand and line up in a dignified posture along the sidelines or on the foul line during the playing of the National Anthem.

[Chugga]

It’s kinda interesting how whenever you bring up this debate the immediate response is “they are disrespecting our troops and veterans” and you can’t even say a word to change anyone’s mind on the fact that these thug players are disrespectful pieces of trash and how our military deserves better than that.

 

But then here we are in this thread I’m scrolling through like 10 pages of crap and it’s amazing to me how quickly the tone of a conversation can degrade down to pretty great depths of disrespect for an active member of our military simply because he disagrees.

 

I’ve seen a lot of players kneel and get called every name in the book.  Never seen anyone of them call one of our vets a dum dum though and goad them onto a petty argument.

 

I guess disrespect is in the eye of the beholder.  Or whatever works to further your argument.

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

It's still not right. Patriotism should never be mandatory. 

This is what you said:

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The NFL isn't the first sports league with a patriotism policy.

 

You are the definition of low-information.  Holy smokes. 

 

You pulled the Nazi card when there's an already existing league in the US with a mandatory anthem policy.  One that's been around for decades.  Of which you never cared or bothered to discover.

 

It's hilarious how mighty and moral folks get when they've been admittedly ignorant to "wrongdoing" for 20 years in their own nation.  Yeah sure, you're a defender of truth and justice and the American Way 20 years after the fact.  LOL.

Edited May 25, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[vorpma]

6 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Oh yeah?!?  Well the jerk store called! ...

And you answered! Wow, you have demonstrated a deep intellect!